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[ "There's nothing inherently wrong with continuing higher education after high school. It's arguably the best time to do so before you have other financial or social responsibilities that would prevent you from being able to dedicate yourself to it.\nThe problem is that everything in our society costs too much. In the past, you could pay your own way through college on a part time job. Hell, you could even buy a car and a house and raise a family on an entry-level wage. The fact that college requires crippling debt is a symptom of an economic failure in society toward the working class, not an inherent issue with a college education. Even factoring that into account, it's still usually better to go to college.", ">\n\nThe average debt at graduation is $29K. Basically a car loan in return for 30-50 years of career benefits, including higher pay, lower chance of unemployment, and preferential hiring.", ">\n\nWhere are you getting that statistic from? Just the housing and meals in my area for a college student is over 12 grand a year, and that doesn't include any tuition.", ">\n\nTo be fair housing and meals is an expense you'd have anywhere if you move away from parents", ">\n\nSure, but if you move out of your parents house to work full time, vs putting it into high interest debt or chipping away at a part time job is a big difference.\nI just calculated in state and out of state tuition for the school I went to, and it puts the rough estimate of yearly costs at 26k and 48k, respectively, for tuition, room and board.\nIt's a state school.", ">\n\nStaying in state is a huge cost savings for sure.", ">\n\nYup, still about a six figure debt if you don't work or get scholarships though, cost of college is insane. I went through the military, and it's sad that it's the only cheap way for decent schools.", ">\n\nMy state school was a bit cheaper although not by much - prob about 22k/yr for tuition and board. Then there were a couple small scholarships was able to find for $500-$3k each.\nI think that price for college is about the max that it's \"worth\". Otherwise getting into over six figure debt isnt a great way to start. Not to mention all of the people who find out they don't even want to use their degree.", ">\n\nYup. I got an engineering degree out of it, but for anything that's not guaranteeing a job of 80+ out of school definitely needs to be brought down on the cost of tuition", ">\n\nIsn't the real issue here the limited understanding of the impact of large financial decisions at 18 rather than anything about college? If a kid comes from a wealthy family that will pay their way, why shouldn't they consider college? If our society subsidized college making it relatively \"free,\" why shouldn't they consider college? The basic idea is that there are other considerations and solutions rather than focusing on people's age.", ">\n\nYou could argue that even if college were free it might not be the right path for everybody, but I suppose one could drop out in that case. Still, I think people should be able to make these kinds of decisions for themselves without feeling social or familial pressure one way or the other.", ">\n\nThe opportunity cost for college is at its lowest point right out of high school. That is the main reason to go then.", ">\n\nYep - if you’re going to go at all, that time immediately after high school is when your remuneration at any job will be at its lowest point, so you’re best applying yourself then. Also, you’re the most-likely to have the least responsibilities/obligations at this time (kids, mortgage, marriage) than any other time in your life.", ">\n\nIt's also when your brain is the freshest. It's just gonna get more and more sluggish after age 20.", ">\n\nYep - your 20s are when you should be applying yourself to learning as much as possible (and that doesn’t only mean in college - lots of ways to learn things). And in your 30s mastering a craft.", ">\n\nYes, very anti-US. I envy you guys", ">\n\n\n\nCollege is optional. Nobody has to go at all. Anyone who chooses to go, should be smart enough to research their choices and the implications of student loans. \n\n\nGap years are so common that most colleges allow incoming students to defer enrollment their first year. \n\n\nA $300k price tag in the US is for private colleges. State college average cost for 4 years is $125k. In some states like NY if your family makes under $125/year tuition is free. Community college is far less at $5k a year. And all of this depends on your income level and how much financial aid you receive. This is all information that is publicly available. If you choose to attend a private college you can’t afford, see my first point.", ">\n\n\nCollege is optional. Nobody has to go at all. Anyone who chooses to go, should be smart enough to research their choices and the implications of student loans. \n\nIt is getting a lot better and things are swinging back to where trades arent being discouraged, but there was a time period where it was college or bust and that was the message that was pushed hard when I was in high school", ">\n\nSame here. But trade schools were designed to keep low income people out of colleges. Have you ever seen a rich person digging ditches? Most of the options seem male-oriented and you have to be in good shape. And dentists and docs can't be made in trade-school", ">\n\nI'll agree they are male oriented, but you don't have to be in shape to be an electrician, plumber, welder, etc", ">\n\nWhen I was in high school (class of 2017), we had military recruiters - quite regularly; they'd set up a booth in the cafeteria at lunch and give out little prizes if you could do 10 burpees or whatever - but no college recruitment, ever. Just to clarify, would you say the same reasoning applies to pressuring them into any sort of binding decision like that?\nThat aside, I would point out a few factual considerations. I don't know if they'll be decisive, but on the chance that they could be:\n\nTypical debt on graduation, for those who have any, is about $30k; $300k would be more like the sticker price (for four years) of an expensive private school.\nChanging their mind about career doesn't necessarily mean more time in college; most majors are applicable to many professions, unless they want to go into a few licensed fields, and changing majors in the first two years often has minimal penalty anyway.", ">\n\nPrecisely. The idea that college is job training is simply wrong. Only a few majors directly lead to jobs; nursing, engineering, and architecture being the ones that come to mind. The rest are all academic disciplines; math, English, literature, history, government, political science, chemistry, physics, biology, psychology, sociology, philosophy, and so on. None of those are direct-to-job majors.\nAnd all majors take essentially the same classes the first 2-3 years. You only really have one year of the four that’s dedicated to your area of study. And about a half year of electives which, depending on what’s chosen, may or may not have anything to do with your major directly.", ">\n\nYour main gripe appears to be that there is a lack of maturity and responsibility among 18-year-olds, and that this prevents them from being able to make decisions regarding college/uni.\nIm not American so i don’t know how exactly the voting age works - but you seem to equate seriousness of the supposed disenfranchisement and legal disadvantages with not being able to drink or smoke so I’ll view them as not very limiting. That notwithstanding, these supposed legal limitations can be set independently of their ability to make decisions, so it’s not fair to assert that they don’t have the ability to judge the implications of going to uni based on such rules. \nYou suggest that it’s flippant to go to college at the age of 18 as one wouldn’t know what they want to do with their lives - which I view as totally illogical because that is where you will go to figure yourself out, most people I know who went to college did not know where they would end up but found their career, passion, etc while there. \nYou also point at this American debt issue, again I can’t make in-depth judgements about it, but these days a college degree is pretty much required for a well paying job. As someone else pointed out, the return on investment is positive so while yeah, the debt is ludicrous, a college degree is better overall. \nThe age of eighteen is the prime time to go to college/ uni imo, your ability to learn does start dropping off in your mid-to-late 20s. Your college years aren’t for making concrete decisions, that’s for later in your life. If the ages of 18 to 22 or beyond are best used learning and exploring and after 25 is when you temper down and mature, then youd ought go to college right out of HS.", ">\n\nDoes this just have to do with high tuition cost? In certain countries, college education is very cheap. You think it is fine in these countries for 18 year olds to go straight into college?", ">\n\nAlmost nobody is taking on $300k worth of loans. \nAs for \"pressure\" the reality is that a college education affords you significant upward economic mobility if you come from meager means, and is critical to remain financially stable if you come from a financially stable family.\nFurther, there are important skills you learn in college that you don't learn in high school. Statistical literacy. Formal/professional writing. Critical thinking. Ability to read technical reports and understand what is being discussed. These skills are all equally taught no matter what your major is, and all are important in most modern careers.\nFurther, college serves as a community for building a professional network. In addition to the network of people you meet in your classes and day yo day life, you also have access to university-organized job fairs where you can talk directly to industry recruiters. \nFinally, regardless of your major, a college degree can be a critical stepping stone towards professional careers such as medicine, law, business, etc., and in fact those diverse major backgrounds can be a boon for applicants to these sorts of programs.\nSo, college is actually a good thing and it is not necessarily a problem that an 18 year old doesn't know precisely what they want to do with their lives.\nThe alternative is also just not as good. Let's say you take 5 years off to work menial jobs before deciding to go to college to pursue a career you love. Now your study skills, reading skills, writing skills, etc are unpracticed for 5 years. You're older and may have other responsibilities in your life that will interfere with your studies (especially kids!). And you're likely to have less time to actually work in your chosen career to pay off those loans. So, you get less out of it and you're less prepared for it. Is that a better solution? I don't think so.", ">\n\nFirst, you're wrong that nobody is taking $300k out in loans. It may be a shocker, but there are people who decide not to go to in-state public schools...and when you do this your tuition immediately doubles ... average cost of college is $35k a year, and most students get their degree in 5+ years. That's on average $175k. Choosing to go to top tier school will be more like $65k/year which puts you in the $325k range.\nDo most parents pay for some of this? Do most get some sort of financial aid? Do most people pay for at least some college upfront? Yes of course. But not all.", ">\n\n\nFirst, you're wrong that nobody is taking $300k out in loans. It may be a shocker, but there are people who decide not to go to in-state public schools...and when you do this your tuition immediately doubles ... average cost of college is $35k a year, and most students get their degree in 5+ years. That's on average $175k.\n\nIt's possible to accrue this type of debt if you go to an out-of-state private school, but that just means most people probably shouldn't do that.\n\nChoosing to go to top tier school will be more like $65k/year which puts you in the $325k range.\n\nContrary to common belief, Ivys are extremely generous with low-income students. They charge rich kids the full sticker price, but the price for low-income students is very low (Harvard advertises that students from families who make less than $75,000 don't pay anything to attend).", ">\n\n\nIt's possible to accrue this type of debt if you go to an out-of-state private school, but that just means most people probably shouldn't do that.\n\nI mean that's really the OP's point - 17/18 YO are not typically equipped to make a sound financial decision here.", ">\n\nGiven that college education is the best vehicle for social mobility (and this has been backed up a ton in the literature) it seems to me that saying “reconsider going to college because you are too ignorant to make a good financial decision right now” is throwing the baby out with the bath water. The proper intervention is to do a better job educating students on their options.", ">\n\nI felt this way for a while, but the success rate for post-secondary education is fairly decent. I've also heard multiple arguments that many younger people have an easier time with a full-time course load than older people do. In my own experience, coming back to college at age 26 was better for me mentally, but harder financially. I'm 33, and still haven't completed a degree because my financial and mental health problems push me to take extended breaks while I save money and regroup internally. Anecdotally, many young students are used to full-time education, because it's all they've ever known. It's easier for many to just stay in the grind and knock it out before moving on to the next stage in life.\nPersonally, I think the problem isn't that we push kids in too young, it's the way we handle tuition. The US does alright overall, but many countries handle school finances and culture differently, and have better overall outcomes for students.\nLastly, it's worth a nod to your argument in that high school students in the US aren't often made aware of trade schools and other post-secondary education options. Maybe we would see success rates rise if students with talents outside of traditional education were encouraged to pursue those, rather than pushing them into the same system as \"everyone else.\"", ">\n\nPeople CHOOSE to go to expensive schools. My entire college education including room and board for a B.S. in a stem field cost less than 40k.", ">\n\nSmart. You can get an engineering degree at a state school for under $40k.", ">\n\n\nHow is an 18 year old, who is legally barely capable of anything, understand the true implications of such a decision?\n\nMost aren’t spending $300k. You’re off by an order of magnitude. The current average isn’t even over $30k. \nEven at $30k debt that’s an entirely reasonable amount of money to spend to get a $900k lifetime return. \nWhere’s the issue? Spend some now earn more over your lifetime.", ">\n\n\nThere are numerous studies that show that only a small percent of degrees are actually profitable. \n\nCitation needed.\nThe median high-school-only full-time income is well under the 25th percentile bachelor's-or-higher income, so a large majority of four-year graduates out-earn most high-school-only graduates.", ">\n\nWhich means... 84% make less. That's the opposite of your point. Most college grads out-earn most high school grads, like I said.\nFor that matter, the first heading on your first source's full report is \"Earnings Generally Increase\nwith More Education\". And take a look at Fig. 5 - bearing in mind that the median lifetime income with a high school diploma is $1.6M (Fig. 2), every single category of majors out-earns the median high school graduate (the lowest being Education, with a median of $2M). Your source conclusively and consistently supports my claim.\nNo one is denying that exceptions exist.", ">\n\n\nYes but my point was not all degrees are profitble not that collage doesnt give you a chance to make more money. \n\nYou specifically said only a small percentage of degrees are profitable. \"A small percentage\" is not \"not all\". As I said, no one denies that exceptions exist.", ">\n\nIn that case, sure. I don't think it's really disputed that, say, social work or education is poorly paid given the degree requirement, and not a great investment financially.", ">\n\nCruel and predatory? Feels like you just chose 2 random negative words because you didn't want to say 'bad' twice.\nAlso your issue doesn't seem to be with studying, but with getting tuition. Maybe you should argue for free public education instead.", ">\n\n\nFeels like you just chose 2 random negative words because you didn't want to say 'bad' twice.\n\nThat's the mark of an educated man.", ">\n\nThat's the mark of someone wanna trigger emotional response form reader. It's a\nstretch to use those words in this post", ">\n\n\nSo where is this logic when it applies to college?? We actively encourage kids to place themselves into binding contracts where they may have to spend a decent chunk (or the rest) of their lives paying back up to 300k in student loans.\n\nNope. They got ONE loan for ONE semester. Attended classes for 4 months while talking to teachers and peers. And then decided that it still made sense and took out ANOTHER loan for another semester. And so on…. a lot more times. At any point they could realize it was a mistake, if they decided that, and leave.\nAnd the average debt at graduation, is $29K.", ">\n\nFair.", ">\n\n\nbarely able to vote\n\nYou're either old enough or not. And at 18, you can vote. As a matter of fact, booze, cigarettes and running for President of the US are pretty much the only things you can't do. You are considered an adult in almost every other way. Stop infantilizing 18 year olds and treating them all like incompetent idiots.", ">\n\nIdk I was a pretty incompetent idiot (nice word choice) at 18", ">\n\nYou shouldn't generalize others from self.", ">\n\nYou definitely shouldn't...but 18 year olds are generally morons. Not their fault, but generally true.", ">\n\nI was a \"non-traditional\" student, so you're preaching to the choir. But I can think of a few reasons why social pressure to go straight to college makes sense:\n\nKeep the momentum going! It's very hard to go to the \"real world\" and then back to school. You get caught up in life: rent, bills, freedom, etc. Not everyone has the luxury of staying with their parents, and the USA does not have the social support networks in place to enable gap-year folks like some other countries.\nReturn on investment! Kickstarting your career early can provide some crazy high return on investment. Both literally, in the form of early investing in stocks, as well as more figuratively in the form of higher career trajectory and fluidity.\nSocietal impact! On a macro scale, what we want is productive and contributing members of society. Pushing folks into school might not be the best for an individual, but it's very likely best for society as a whole.\n\nAnd I can think of a direct counterpoint to your assertion, as well. It's no more predatory than the fact that an 18 year old can open a credit card, sign a mortgage, get married, take out a car loan, sign up for life insurance, etc. All those things can be tools, and can also be predatory when abused by assholes looking to profit. And the people getting preyed on really run the whole gamut of society - there are 50 year olds who are signing objectively bad loans, racking up tens of thousands in credit card debt and signing mortgages way outside their means. So unfortunately I don't think this particular industry is any worse than all the others in which an individual can shoot themselves in the foot by not thinking critically about their choices.", ">\n\nFortunately American colleges treat students like children in lots of ways, from making sure they are housed to keeping attendance in class. So that more or less works out OK.", ">\n\nHow does predatory fit in here? Colleges do advertise, but the people doing most of the advocating don't stand to gain anything from the bad advice.\nIs it the government providing loans that's predatory? Leaving aside someone that's politically left having to state the government is predatory; I assume just like with private companies, the terms of the loan are straight forward; They tell you exactly what the loan will cost if you only make minimum payments. This actually seems less predatory than companies selling products where they omit problems or important context with the product (eg - iRobot doesn't clearly tell you the various sensor issues their vacuums have).\nSo who is the predator here?", ">\n\nI pressured both my kids NOT to straight after school. They ignored me and went anyway.", ">\n\nAs opposed to what? Travel the world? Sit around playing FFXI? “Cultivate a hobby”?\nWith whose money? Living where? Will your parents just pay for you to travel the world for the “experience”? Will they just let you live with them while you get your Mythic Weapon to ilvl 119? The answer is probably no. Paying either part of or all your tuition is one more kindness your parents are doing for you, you can’t expect them to pay for you to lounge around. Especially American families, where it’s all about one self rather than the family unit. You don’t know how many threads I’ve read where people tell others to just ditch their parents and let them “rot in a nursing home”. Forget that they spent 18+ years of their life taking care of you. \nIf your answer is “I’ll work”, then what work? Delivering pizza? Because you’ll be hard pressed to find a good job at 18 with no degree. \nTherefore, what you’re suggesting is simply infeasible for most people.", ">\n\nThe problem here is not sending young adults to college. That's a good idea because both their school knowledge and learning methods are still there.\nThe problem is a system where going to college costs 300k.", ">\n\nBut it doesn’t. It would only cost that if you paid nothing, went to the most-expensive private school you could find, and did it all with debt while also funding your living expenses with debt too.\nThe average debt at graduation is only $29K. So, clearly, few have that type of debt. Certainly vanishingly-few who are getting bachelors degrees. Most people who get into six-figure debt from school end up lawyers and physicians.", ">\n\nOP: Going to college is not close to being cruel and predatory. Setting up someone for failure is.\nBeing around an scholastic environment with people who are seeking to improve their lives and education is legitimately the opposite of what you have said. \nGuess what else you can take at college. Trade school programs, certifications, and the degree to ensure your knowledge and success. \nMost people can even get financial aid for help! You don't need to go to a Ivy league school. Now adays most employers don't give a fuck. You just have to be educated and able to do the job.\nGuess what? Humans need to learn and need to face resistance in the mind and body to improve and strengthen. Heavy weight and resistance will force the body to build muscle or strength. Learning will force the mind to expand it's capabilities.\nA young person, especially someone around 18 is vulnerable to negative influence. They really should be around positive people and a positive environment. There are many vices that will ruin a life, and trust me on this. The worst influencers are seriously not trying to go to college and improve their life.", ">\n\n\nMost people can even get financial aid for help! You don't need to go to an Ivy league school. Now adays most employers don't give a fuck.\n\nCorrection: nobody gives a fuck. Other than pretentious dummies or people whose goal was to skate through life on the “good old boy’s network” of grads from their alma mater.", ">\n\nAlot of people in this thread are campaigning hard for thr benefits of college. And I 100% agree, the stats don't lie. But it's more nuanced than that. As an elementary school kid I always heard from my teachers \"you need to go to college to be successful\" and that's not inherently true. What is not often talked about is choice of major, which imo is an even more important choice than choosing whether to go to college or not. \nAlot of 18 year Olds don't know what they want to do, and I saw many MANY people get degrees in stuff that hasn't helped them at all. Or change degrees after wasting alot of time and money on their first degree choice. What I'm trying to say is that engineering degree and a theater degree are 2 different things. I could graduate with an art degree tomorrow and it's no guerentee I make 6 figures ever. Granted, I'm sure there are art majors making alot of money, but the job field isn't exactly as fruitful as other majors. \nEven things like teachers. My brother Is a teacher and my other brother with a trade job makes twice as much as him without needing a degree", ">\n\nA lot of people in this thread probably went to college.", ">\n\nI used to have the same thought about drinking and smoking, but what benefit does either have more than college?\nI don't think the problem is that they go to college, I think the problem is they go to college wanting a degree in something that they were told in high school would make them 6 figures starting salary. So they jump in for the money and never figure out what their passion is which leads to a college degree that becomes useless when they realize they can't get a job.", ">\n\nThe way I approached college was to start taking core/required classes (English, math, history, government, etc) while choosing electives that were subjects that looked interesting but I knew nothing/little about. Doing that helped me find the major I wanted. And, while I never worked in that field after graduating, it held me in good stead and I was successful in the field I ended up wanting to work in.", ">\n\nThat is a smart approach and often it seems college is almost set up for people to take that route. I think some just don't take the time to look into different electives to find what they enjoy.", ">\n\nIn 1969 when I first went to uni there was any government loans, the tuition was $200 a semester with no limitations on credit hours taken, then gov loans came in and tuitions sky rocketed and have continued to do so ever since along with restrictions on how many subjects you take. I agree this was a predatory act done intentionally so schools could make money, kind of a sideways attempt at government sponsored education.", ">\n\nI think trade schools don't get mentioned often enough as legit beginning on a decent career path.", ">\n\nMost kids see no glory in such blue-collar work, feel they’d have “settled” and be looked down upon, and also see four years where they can continue hanging out with their friends while not working, versus taking a full-time job and “getting started”. Not hard to imagine they prefer the easy “glory” path to the “get busy and become a taxpaying member of society” path.", ">\n\nBecause if they don't go immediately they likely will never go. \nWhich for many wouldn't be a bad thing.", ">\n\nIn many of Asian and European countries, college education is funded by the governments and is not as atrocious as here in the US. Arguably, continuing education whilst young has lots of benefits because it's well understood that learning declines as we age.", ">\n\nI sure wish I had more time to figure out what I wanted to do. Tuition is relatively cheap where I am and my parents paid for it - but I studied something I have no passion for, so my outlook is not great right now. I wish I had the funds to go back and get another degree but it would mean going in debt and being financially fucked for who knows how long. If I took a few extra years to work and have a better idea of what I wanted to study I probably would've made a better decision and been in a better place now? who knows", ">\n\nThis!!", ">\n\nSee if your school has a Co-op program. You work 6 months and go to school for 6 months.", ">\n\nThat’s smart", ">\n\nI propose your issue isn't with college itself, but the government and culture surrounding college.\nFor example, tuition for college was massively subsidized before Nixon made sweeping cuts to it, in order to silence political dissenters from colleges.\nCollege education does provide valuable skills. It's predatory nature comes from legalized price gouging of tuition and needed materials. On top of this, the government profits on the loans it gives out for school. Not only are you required to pay taxes for life to fund education, but you're required to pay extra in the form of student loans+interest.\nColleges are aware of this and do profit on it. The worst of it comes in the form of politicians profiting on these loans (by owning private lending businesses, voting to increase their wages using taxes, requiring military service to join without massive debt then profiting on military action).\nIt's not the college doing this. It is a design of a proto-fascist state attempting to squeeze all value out of its lower classes. \nYou are becoming more aware of it and that's good.", ">\n\nPretty much an American thing. Very common for kids to take a year or two off elsewhere. Do what you wanna do and find the person you want to be.", ">\n\nI'd have to do research, but the only difference I'd make is to say either, \"It has become cruel and predatory,\" or, \"It has always been cruel and predatory.\" Tuition has soared, and predatory loans have replaced grants for poor students, but I'm skeptical there was ever a time college delivered all it promised. I think poor people saw college as a thing rich people did, so they thought if they did it they could get rich too, or at least less poor, but when you graduate you find the rich kids were just legitimizing a position that was always waiting for them, and you're still gonna have to strive and struggle.", ">\n\nDefinitely the latter", ">\n\n300k in loans if that 18 year old gets a PHD.\nMost bachelors are hella affordable. I paid for mine by working as a chinese food delivery driver part time, class of 2016.", ">\n\nI agree when it comes to the loans, total garbage.", ">\n\nParticularly when those 18 year olds are having to go into the kind of debt people who are buying houses go into. It’s not a reasonable expectation", ">\n\nI believe the pressure is actually a mix of permanent \"branding\" of a concept and a false illusion to reality.\n\"Going to college will get you a better paying job\"\nI know many and I'm sure many of you know folks who have these fancy papers going \"i r koolage stewdent\" and the person is working some crap job/temp till they find something that lets them use said piece of paper.\nA mix of schools and businesses (both work and loan company's) have either purposely or unpurposely set a form of gate keeping for \"better jobs\" and the only way to do said learning is to pay X$. Don't got the money? here sign this paper work putting you into heavy if not life long debt to learn this thing. No no ignore folks who have the degrees who even 10/20/30 years later are still paying it off cause the terms are not fair or in your favor. But you don't got a choice in lenders short of government aid but you better be poor or getting lots of scholarships. \nIt is beyond predatory and the fact the government is currently going \"these debts have cause decades of harm\" is proof they are really fucking stupid. Sadly the folks fighting it so hard is another unrelated topic. \nTo end this tho I share the same view on kids/\"new\" adults are forced into a position they shouldn't be due to a social structure that has proven detrimental for not just the individual but to the country as a whole.", ">\n\nI think you're conflating the decision of college with the decision of taking out student loans.\nI agree that an 18 year old should not be able to take out so much in student loans for a degree that everyone knew at the time wouldn't pay for itself. But I disagree that college is inappropriate for 18 year olds. 18 is a formative time in a person's life and college can be a good way to expose a person to many different perspectives and experiences that they otherwise wouldn't have an opportunity to experience.", ">\n\nThe problem isn't getting an education. The problem is;\n\nbeing convinced to go to overpriced universities which won't help you in the long run. Don't go somewhere for 100k to get a degree to be a high-school teacher\nBeing convinced to go after careers that won't make you money. Ive lost count of the number of friends who got degrees that can't be easily monetized and then they have to go back for more schooling.", ">\n\nNo. But there are different paths to success in college. From Community College, part time schedule, online, to full class load on campus. Parents and teens should make an honest assessment of what they can handle at 18. (Even a gap year)", ">\n\nNo one forced me to go to college. Went in very early 2000s.\n\nIt was the best option I had at the time, after working moderately hard in high school. Mostly, grant money paid for classes at a pretty good state university. I only ended up owing a little under 5k and that’s primarily because I had a few majors.\n\nThe other options were the military, trade school, or probably a minimum wage, none of those options were appealing to me, besides I could still do those things and have a 4 year degree. \nBut, I would’ve been terrified with those options only because of no fall back.\nI could’ve opened a business, but I can do that and did that while going to school. \nI’m also in a state where you can get a full ride with a 3.0. I did have a chance to go to a couple of higher end universities, but I know it could put my family and I in a tight situation. \nI think I actually took much more money than what I owed. And, actually loved college. Everyone always talks about their fondness of grade school. Elementary was ok, hated middle school and the first part of high school. It was awful \nWhat I will say about college- if you’re a terrible student or hated school, then you probably shouldn’t go. It only guarantees a job for fields that require extensive training and knowledge of a specific fields. Though, you have an opportunity to make your path to jobs or careers in college, while being there or taking proper steps for the future. \nThere’s your career services, electives, seminars, company recruitment, program recruitment, career development, etc. Some of the programs are so evil they pay your way to school. Oftemtimes, if you do well in college and have a wealth knowledge with impactful majors. You pretty much will have your pick of jobs.", ">\n\nIf student loans/debt wasn't a factor, would you still believe that \"it is cruel and predatory that we as a society pressure 18 year olds to go straight to college after high school\"?", ">\n\nNo not at all. I still don’t like that there is a stigma around those who do not go to college but I think the costs are nonsensical", ">\n\nThen it sounds like you don't actually agree with your own title to begin with? I don't know if they let you edit titles, but it might be good to put an amended title at the top of your main post that more directly opposes predatory loans and debt. And I can't disagree with you on that part. If I were 18 and wanted to take out a $100k loan to start an underwater basket weaving company I would get laughed out of the bank, and rightfully so. I don't have the credit to make such a poor decision with someone else' money. But if I take out $100k to get an underwater basket weaving degree, they'll happily screw me over for life.", ">\n\nI agree with lots of your point, so I’m going to challenge the idea that encouraging education itself is predatory.\n40 years ago, a person could put themselves through an undergraduate degree with a part time job, incurring minimal debt and paying it off quickly afterwards. Even if they never used that degree, they grew, learned things, and weren’t in decades of debt for it. \nThen policies changed around student loan debt and the cost of secondary education skyrocketed. Someone else who’s more educated in the subject can better speak on the nuances of why this occurred, but it fundamentally changed the landscape so that schools jacked up prices to the insane cost we see today. \nThis in my opinion is the part that’s predatory - folks who took advantage of the growing demand for secondary education. An educated society benefits everyone in it, and encouraging 18 year olds to broaden their minds and learn things while their brains are young and plastic is not inherently a bad thing. The predatory part is that we allowed some folks to stand in the way of education because they needed to make loads of money off of it. It didn’t start out that way.", ">\n\nPredatory 🤣🤣🤣", ">\n\nEver heard of predatory loans?", ">\n\nYes, but until today I had never heard of predatory higher education opportunities 🤣🤣🤣", ">\n\nThe loans are what is predatory, haha", ">\n\nIf you are 18 you are still in a study habit from school. Putting a gap year or two, three in between will wash that away and make it more difficult to start studying.\nLearning is easier when you're young, so it makes sense to do it as young as possible.\nHigher education is by all means a great time, where you constantly expand your worldview, knowledge, and pool of acquaintances. At the same time higher education offers plenty of opportunity for extracurricular activities, much more than a job would. I see no reason why getting a boring entry level job would be preferable.", ">\n\nI 100% am b3hind as many people going to college as they can. I believe it is more than just an education. However, 18 is a TERRIBLE time to go. After high school, most people needs a few years to gain a little real world experience and let their brain further developed. You should have experience with alcohol BEFORE college not during. \nYou shouldn't get married before 25 and you shouldn't go to college before 25.", ">\n\nIn my country kids considered fully adult once they turn 18, they can drink, smoke and they have all their rights. However I'd still love to take a little break before college but my family won't let me.", ">\n\nI will say that college is a great idea if you have the means. I personally couldn’t afford it, even with $20k in scholarships and fafsa I couldn’t do it. Some people have to work full time to survive, some have to care for disabled/elderly family members or younger siblings, or might have other obligations. We tell high schoolers that college is the only option, but it’s not feasible for everyone and I think it’s important to present alternative options", ">\n\nI truly believe it depends on said child. Some kids just know. They know what they want and have no problem going after. The rest of us should definitely wait until our frontal lobe is developed. I had zero clue. Figured it out by 30 but it's too late for me right now. ADHD is my downfall personally and money.", ">\n\nWe as a society don't necessarily do that. I'm a teacher and when taught in America, I (and the other teachers at my school) often pushed techs school and learning a trade over college.", ">\n\nYeah, I think pre college level schools should have a system that allows for the students to explore what interests them more. How is a person supposed to know what they want to do for college when they've never truly been given an opportunity to explore their interests? It's purposely done so that colleges can make more money off the people who don't know what they want.", ">\n\nSo I agree with you in people putting off university till a little after HS, though I wouldn't use the word predatory, its more like a false promise. A bachelor's degree is worth next to nothing in the US now because people are treating it as a fail-safe for people. I've met kids who are dumb as rocks in college and professors just pass them then they get out into the real world and take they can't do the actual job they talked for, because well their dumb as rocks... So they just eventually keep losing their job and work at some fast food place with tons of school debt. In this scenario you are correct. However, I do think that some people will benefit from school right-away. Women for one, will find the best job that pays the most for them in an educated field. Now this is where I will get major backlash, I know. But also if you are coming from a HS that doesn't have super good educational system (ei low graduation level, or good overall GPA) then your probably won't do well in college. There are the exceptions to that right, but as a statistic, those kids aren't cut for college just yet. It's better for them to go out into the world and gain experience that way and find a field they are good at/passionate about then go back to school. They will then hopefully be more mentally ready for the hardships that come with higher education", ">\n\nI went my first year, parents paying, and I felt bad because I wasn't ready to settle down and study. So, I went to work. I ended up working in construction and made a very good paycheck for a 18 y/o. I did this for about 10 years, and was a forman/supervisor for a successful company when I went back to school. By this time, I knew what my interests were and I paid my own way. \nI changed my career and my state degree in my early 30s didn't keep me from making a decent, competitive paycheck. And the 10 years of experience managing teams in construction had very translatable skills. I just went from blue to white collar, so just had to watch my salty language. :)\nSo, no, I don't think society pressure was enough to keep me from doing what I wanted. My path was not typical, and I'm doing just fine. (my wife may argue that last point.)", ">\n\nI mean it took me until age 24 to realize I was living my whole life wrong & I still don’t know what I wanna do with my life but I guess everybody is different & everybody develops & learns about themselves in a different time frame but I’d say an 18 year old doesn’t actually know what they want to do for the rest of their life", ">\n\nIt can be predatory. It can also be extremely liberating to be done with school at 22-25 years old. Working full time while going to school is an arduous prospect. Btw I believe slacking off for 2-3 years not accomplishing anything by age 21 is crippling to one’s chances of success.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I struggled a lot between 18-20 but I know that if I were taking that time while I’m school I likely would have failed out and wasted a ton of money", ">\n\nYup. It was culture for me. I went even though I had ZERO business doing so . If I would of taken a year or two and worked a real job. It would of taught me so much . Not only to respect what an education can give you. But also what I want to do with my life . Instead I went to college and just got swept away with life .", ">\n\nNope, it is not the \"pushing\" that is ridiculous/predatory/cruel, but the situation in the USA.\nIn Europe, it just feels like a secondary high-school so people don't feel \"pushed\". Heck, I am glad I started uni at 19 (yes, where I am we do HS until 19) and have not waited. I knew what I wanted since a long time ago and so do most people. And it is cheap. Everything is cheap. The only difference is that you are no longer with the parents. That's all.\nSo again, consider not the \"push\" being wrong, but what the conditions are. Your argument should be against the status of your uni system, not against students starting uni at 18.", ">\n\nYes, but given the status of the uni system, I think people should take more time before rushing into college to make sure they don’t take on a huge financial burden they might not be ready/prepared for", ">\n\nOnce again, in \"normal\" countries it's not that much of an investment. And also, it is parents that mainly pay for the cheap tuition and the living costs.\nMy point is that you should be angry at the fact that the uni system is not \"normal\" where you live, instead that young people are \"pushed\" into learning when they are in their mental prime.", ">\n\nI am not angry, nor am I angry at students going to college. I think given the US college system is bad, we should not push kids into school without them understanding the financial implications of their decision", ">\n\nI've been trying to tell this very thing to anyone that'll listen. Unless you know exactly what you want to do at the ripe old age of 18 and are prepared to put yourself in debt for years to come, don't go to college. Get a job and get some good life skills first. Learn how to be an adult and make adult decisions before you waste your money on an education that you probably won't even use. When you've figured out what is important to you and what you think you might want to do for a living, THEN go and get a degree.", ">\n\nHaha in this economy you need to be done with school by 12 so you can start saving to buy a house at 40. Goals", ">\n\nHi, you raised a lot of points, and I shall try to address as many as possible. You say that 18 yo cannot smoke. That is false in every state as well as every other country where smoking is not banned completely. As to drinking, I agree that it is hypocrisy to bestow upon 18 yo all the responsibilities of adulthood but withhold one of the privileges. I am unsure what the phrase \"barely able to vote\" means, you either can or you cannot.\nMoving on to your main thesis, which seems to me to be this: \"Uni saddles students with debt for many years to come, therefore 18 uo who are immature should not be able to make such decisions.\" In response to that I would firstly ask you to look at the alternatives. It is widely believed that the age of mental maturity is around 25. Would you have them work unqualified minimum-wage jobs for 7 years, and only afterwards go to Uni? Or would you expect parents to support them for an additional 7 years? Either way, they would be throwing away close to a decade of their lives, for the chance of making a better choice. It seems far worse than getting student loans, as they would only start working in their chosen profession at the age of 29/31, when all those who went to uni at 18 will have moved up the corporate ladder and made a significant dent in their student loans. Furthermore, it would be inconsistent to just restrict 18 yo from uni access, as you either treat them as adults or as children, therefore to be logically consistent you would need to restrict their access to driving licences, guns and voting, as all three can be extremely dangerous in the wrong hands.\nI think that the real solution to the problem is to stop giving out student loans to unprofitable degrees. Engineers, like myself, lawyers and doctors generally have far, far fewer problems with student loans than those studying history, literature or psychology. Therefore, to protect students from loans they will be unable to pay back, unprofitable degrees should operate on a pay-for-it-upfront model.", ">\n\nThey used to go off to war or to work on coal mines so college is a walk on the park.", ">\n\nI know this is buried, but if you see this, you need to understand that the lack of \"financial understanding\" that you're seeing here isn't necessarily your fault, nor any teenager's fault. It's your parent's duty and responsibility to guide you through these decisions. \nYou're feeling stressed that your father lost his job and his career might not be the same after this. That's a risk that your parents took on. As a father to a young teenager, my wife and I will take this responsibility on for her as well. We know the risks and we accept that responsibility. That's on us. We have put our name on the line for cars, homes, and most of all our children. \nI can make the same arguments that everyone else here has made, but I'll add that with a degree, you're only matched by 35% of the population. With a Masters degree, that turns into 13% of the population. You are dramatically decreasing your pool of peers with a degree, and you will see significantly less time without a job with a degree (on average).\nI'm a tradesman. My wife is a degreed worker. I made more money early in life and (as we are coming up on our 50th rotation around the sun) she is significantly out-earning me now. I expect to have a more difficult time finding work that pays well as I age as there's always someone who will do what I do for far less than I do it for. That means that I must continue my education to set myself apart from my peers who are young and hungry. It's more difficult to compete with a larger pool of people.", ">\n\nThe problem isn’t going into higher education at 18. In fact it’s easier to do that before you have a job and obligations.\nThe problem is saddling people with generational debt.\nEurope does not have that dilemma for instance.\nBut you do make a good point about trade schools.\nUnfortunately society as a whole sees the whole thing as « beneath them ». Trade school means you couldn’t hack it in normal school, so people don’t go (which is sometimes dumb, because those guys can make a lot of money).", ">\n\n\"The 'push' itself for college isn't cruel/predatory (even if there are loads of predatory practices on the financial side of things).\"\nWhat I mean by this is that the 'push' is generally caused by a swell of well-meaning advice: College was a great investment for lots of Boomers. Many who went straight to work (even many who did quite well for themselves) ended up with a bad back and wishing they had gone to college and gotten a desk job. Many who went straight to college felt like it opened a lot of doors early in their career that compounded well over the long run. On top of these anecdotes, there is plenty of government data out there showing earning projections for different educational-attainment levels that back up the anecdotes. All in all, when someone's experience was \"College worked out great for everyone I can think of!\" then \"I really think you should go to College!\" is usually well-intentioned advice given in-good-faith.\nThe fact that the financials around the post-secondary education industry became so vastly distorted compared to \"the good old days\" that blanket \"Go to college!\" advice becomes increasingly ill-advised is a tragedy but that doesn't make it malicious.", ">\n\nI don’t think the family members encouraging their kids to go to school are cruel, I think the loan companies are", ">\n\nOf course.\nBut it's not like people feel pressure to go to college because they have an innate natural desire to make loan companies happy. The pressures come from the expectations of people close to them - young people want to follow their trusted mentors' best advice.\nAll the predatory stuff is downstream of that pressure - exploiting the situation, yes, but not creating the situation.", ">\n\nI'm confused. Is the argument really that it's unjust to send kids (back) to school at 18, or that they can't drink and smoke?", ">\n\nA better argument would be that 18 year olds have received little to no education on financial literacy. A few hundred thousand in loans sounds like an insane amount but they may have little to no context as to how long that will actually take to pay off. The loans also could not be issued by any bank to an 18 year old for any other reason due to safe lending laws.\nAlso the issue here is the cost of college, not what age they go to college. It’s not really that much better that I wait until 25 so that I understand how badly I’m getting fucked over before doing it", ">\n\nIs it *just\" the cost of college, or is it pressuring 18 year olds to make a decision they may not have full context to understand? Should they go to college? Trade school? Gap year? Internship?\nShould an 18 year old feel rushed to go to college immediately after high school when they're not sure of what they want to do yet? Because if they decide they don't like the college path they've chosen, they'll still have to pay those loans off, but won't have a degree.\nPersonally I was pushed into making a decision ASAP, I had about a month after high school before I was being threatened with getting kicked out, so I chose trade school, didn't like it, wasn't good at it, wasn't a fit, but graduated for the sake of graduating and never worked professionally in that field. I still had to pay 14k in loans, which is no small amount for someone that young.\nIt's not so much the cost, but the value you get from the cost.", ">\n\nNo it's entirely the cost. The downside you described only exists because of the cost. If the cost wasn't there, then whats your downside? Oh no I'm 21 and have decided to take my life in a different direction?", ">\n\nPerhaps the discussion should be about asking an 18 year old to borrow large amounts of money. \nFor much of the developed world, going to college after high school is about studying, not taking on a lifetime debt.", ">\n\nIt’s the same in the USA; OP’s example of $300K of debt is a ridiculous exception to the norm. Average USA student debt at graduation is $29K. He’s off by an order of magnitude.", ">\n\nWell... it sounds like you're actually arguing that it's cruel that we make people pay for their college rather than providing it free like primary/secondary school. That's a very different view. \nThe reason it's encouraged to continue with higher education after high school is exactly because people's brains are less plastic after about age 25. It's not that you can't learn after that, obviously... but it does get progressively more difficult (edit: and therefore, to your apparent actual point, more expensive). \nSo yes, it makes complete sense if we want an educated populace (which we do, because the world is more complicated than it used to be), that people be encouraged to get that education young. It's just going to get harder and slower as you age.", ">\n\nBased on this I’m assuming your a teenager. First, noones getting student loans for 300k. Second, college is smart do it. Alternatively, you can just work at a gas station the rest of your life or try to make it as an influencer.\nMost of my friends that did not go to college and had the same thought process as you are currently having a hard time financially in their 30s.", ">\n\nI am a full time undergrad student but I wish I had been more financially literate and better prepared for the decision I was making prior to enrolling in a four-year university. I also think it is inaccurate and quite absurd to suggest that people without college degrees will become “influencers” and gas station workers when options such as trade and technical schools exist.", ">\n\n\nI wish I had been more financially literate and better prepared for the decision\n\nThis is an argument to support the fact that your education was inadequate prior to college, not an argument against college itself.\nYes, K-12 schools should teach a lot of life skills, including financial literacy, that would benefit all students in their future decision-making. What you'll discover as you get older is that you spent a lot of time in school learning stuff you will never use — time that could have been spent teaching you things that become hard lessons later on. School generally prepares you for more school, not life.", ">\n\nI don’t know what school you went to but I have never had a class in financial literacy in my entire schooling. I do agree that my education prior to university was inadequate, but it is not common to learn financial literacy in school", ">\n\nYes, I agree. It's not generally taught in schools. This is a problem. \nBut my point is, it's the real problem you're pointing to. Despite 13 years of education, you were not properly prepared to make these decisions that everyone knew were coming. The issue is not that there's pressure to continue education; it's that nobody prepares students for the financial decisions they're going to have to make in order to do so.", ">\n\nNo, that is not the real problem, although it is a problem. \nThe real problem is the cost of college in the first place.\nI don't know why no one is addressing this point. Maybe because it's not an actual reply to OP's point. But it's the actual answer. College is way too expensive. That's what is predatory. Higher education for its own sake is valuable. I want to live in a place where people value education, not just being a good worker bee as early as possible. This path should not be only available to the highest echelons of society. \nIt's not okay to tell people of any age that they should do trades because college is too expensive. Working in trades is hell on your body, and the average career length, not to mention career earnings, is much less than those who work in professional fields of any type.\nThe solution is fully funded post-secondary education for any and everyone who wants it.", ">\n\n\nI don't know why no one is addressing this point. Maybe because it's not an actual reply to OP's point.\n\nYes, that's why. This is CMV, so respondents are required to address OP's point and try to change their view. OP's title premise doesn't mention anything about the cost of college or debt, and the view stated in the text originally made assertions about 18 year-olds not having sufficient decision-making capacity.\n\nThe solution is fully funded post-secondary education for any and everyone who wants it.\n\nSure, but that's also an argument against OP's stated view that 18 year-olds should not be encouraged to attend college. \nFully funded post-secondary education is also already the norm in some countries, so depending on how we interpret OP's use of \"society,\" it may be irrelevant.\nBasically, by OP's own subsequent admission, they worded the post poorly.", ">\n\nConsidering OP's premise is that teenagers shouldn't be encouraged to attend college due to exorbitant costs, I think we can safely assume they live in the US.", ">\n\nFunny, bud. I am a full time college student but I do wish I had better understood what I was getting myself into so I could have considered other education options, taken my prereqs at community college, and generally just have been better educated in personal finance so that I would have had better direction", ">\n\nWhat do you consider the downsides of you going to college?\nI didn't go to university (what we call college here) so I have done the alternative that you're suggesting and I'm interested in hearing your opinion", ">\n\nI’m going to post a longer response but I generally think 18 year old are not well equipped to make the most out of their college experience, which does not make it its money’s worth", ">\n\nAn 18yo is a legal adult (I assume you're talking about the USA). They're denied access to a handful of vices, but otherwise have the full suite of legal rights and responsibilities of a 45yo. It seems weird to think that college or even student loans are more demanding or harder to understand than a full-time job and a mortgage.\nThe reason young people are encouraged to go to college is because it is generally a very good financial investment and offers a fairly gentle transition into adult life. It's a fairly low risk option with great potential upsides.", ">\n\nr/USdefaultism ?", ">\n\n\nlives paying back up to 300k in student loans.\n\nJust fix this problem. It doesn't seem like a smart idea of individuals to profit off the improved education of your population.", ">\n\nThe cruel and predatory thing is that universities charge so dang much for tuition. The cost of the issue, not encouraging kids to seek higher education.", ">\n\nIt’s often not the tuition that raises the sticker price of college. Room, Board, and fees are what have skyrocketed.", ">\n\nI think it’s all of the above, but the point stands regardless.", ">\n\n100%. Teenagers need to do the ROI on college. If you’re spending $100k on a degree that will start you at $35k a year, that is a bad investment.", ">\n\nIt's pretty nuts that in this day and age there are some countries so authoritarian that 18 year olds can't drink or smoke. It's also pretty nuts that there are some places where colleges aren't free at the point of entry, given the disastrous effects we know that has on social mobility.\nThe thing is we haven't really worked out what 18 year olds should be doing. They've finished school but because of automation there's not the unskilled labour there was and so for work we need trained and motivated 25 year olds not skilless 18 year olds. As for how we get trained and motivated 25 year olds, it's some combination of further education and apprenticeship and we haven't at all worked out the details yet and even if we did it probably wouldn't take 7 years. And what we've really not worked out at all is the equal opportunities bit where people of all backgrounds can end up with the skills to do the thing they're motivated to do.\nSo that's the medium/long term challenge. But until we sort that out if you can afford to go college is the least worst alternative. It's the closest thing we've got to a clearing house for helping people find the thing that motivates them and getting them on the path go getting skilled up in that field.\nPersonally? I'd bring back national service, minus the military bits. 2 years from 18-20 for teens to do public works in exchange for a pittance and so earn their free college from the state, and in the meantime grow up a bit and learn how to manage a budget and live the other side of the country from mum and dad (and take all the drugs and fuck everybody they meet). Then in exchange for that you get 3 years free tertiary education from 20-23 by which time you've got some idea what you're interested in and you've sown your wild oats and are ready to go to lectures. Tertiary can be vocational or academic according to your interest. And then 23-25 you're shuffled in to some form of master apprenticeship/paid internship programme.", ">\n\nGreat point!", ">\n\nI'd argue it's cruel and predatory that we as a society (if we're talking about the US, or other countries that don't have a more socialized model), charge money for education, period.\nThe only reason this above is a problem, is because we put a financial hurdle on something which we should be encouraging. After all, an older adult has far more things to worry about societally, and our society has not developed in such a way as to be optimally efficient towards self-betterment to the point where we truly enable people to better themselves, as that would require time, money, and resources that we generally impose upon the individual. (IE: It'd be tough for a 30 year old to learn from a college while having to maintain a modest US lifestyle, complete with car, apartment, food, utilities, and the job required to maintain all that.) \nWhen you've given up that lower education is somewhat meaningless, and oftentimes college is where the bulk of potential 'better jobs' come from, its as if you're being charged for future potential... without any guarantee that said future potential is ever actually seen. What if I get into being a solar or wind turbine technician, but some sweeping reactionary policymaking decides we're going back to oil and gas and coal again? What if I spend time learning about EV drivetrains, and then the market crashes and everyone stops making them? What if I get into art degrees and hone my skills, but then an AI script all but takes over any commercial viability my degree had? (Or accounting? Or for CT technician?) \nCollege works as it does because that further education is happening generally before a lot of these things have taken hold, and in ages past, college tuition was far cheaper, making it far easier for someone to potentially be able to pay for all the above and also afford tuition. In some places, State colleges were even free.\nI don't disagree that the way we have our system set up now is bad, but I'd argue its less because of college or higher education itself being a bad thing, and more about the ways in which we've created systems designed to extract wealth from people. Higher education should be a thing we encourage people to get into, we should absolutely want people to be able to access tools that enable them to become things we need for a healthier society. Putting large financial hurdles in front of them should be an obvious sign of unsustainability, and doing things like trying to make those debts stick through bankruptcy should be a clear sign of predatory behavior. \nSo if you're arguing for an easier accessibility to college education, without all the predatory claws of lenders and the greed of private institutions that're already sitting on multi-billion dollar trusts still having tuitions, then I guess I'm not really challenging your view enough. If the argument is that we shouldn't be pushing people into college period, though, then I'd be pushing back that it's our current perversion of higher education to be just another business in the US that's the problem. There's plenty of models in other countries that show we can have far more affordable colleges, or even free colleges to students, that do not require such financial commitment. In those countries, it isn't cruel and predatory, because they don't have the same broken jank that a system like the US one does.", ">\n\nYes yes yes! Not against education I’m against the greed", ">\n\nIs this an American thing I'm too European to understand?", ">\n\nYes. I apologize", ">\n\nNgl, didn't read the post BUT I went straight into college and dropped out my senior year because of burnout (at 19) and if I had waited a couple years that wouldn't have happened. So I agree.", ">\n\nYeah, I’m in my junior year and I’m completely over it. I feel much more supported by my community outside of college and have a true sense of belonging there. I have a career I’m really excited about and I feel that college is putting it on hold. I am probably going to finish my degree but ugh", ">\n\nYeah, I'm gonna finish my degree... Eventually. I need my mind to heal. I just joke and tell people I decided to take my gap year a little late but the fact that I dropped out haunts me everyday. Do your best to keep at it.", ">\n\nWhy should 18-yr olds be allowed to drink & smoke? Those negatively affect one's life, but learning more is beneficial. Sure you have to pay for it but professors don't teach for free.", ">\n\nI definitely shouldn't have gone to college right after high school. I lacked real world social skills, the necessary work ethic, the money management skills, and so much more I needed to succeed. Leaving college and spending a year working during covid really helped me alot with building up these skills. I was definitely a more well rounded person after my break from school\nI would highly recommend that anyone going to college who could use some money and experience get a shitty retail job before they go. It teaches you alot about work ethic, dealing with people and their bullshit, and so much more. It also scares you straight a bit, realizing what life without a degree could be like", ">\n\nThe only cruel part is the outrageous cost of college here in America", ">\n\nSorry, u/someonefr0msomewhere – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:\n\nDirect responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. See the wiki page for more information. \n\nIf you would like to appeal, you must first check if your comment falls into the \"Top level comments that are against rule 1\" list, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. \nPlease note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.", ">\n\nNo one pressured you into anything. I wanted to go to college right after high-school and I did just that. Others in my class didn’t and decided to do other things. Stop projecting how your feel about yourself “failure to accomplish much” onto others.", ">\n\nOkay", ">\n\nWell one big difference is that it isn't illegal to not go to college, it is just what is recommended. Alcohol and those other scenarios are actually illegal", ">\n\nWhy are you focusing on the financial impact and not the true source of the issue? There shouldn't be a significant financial impact to the student.\nContinuing education after high school is undeniably the best time to do so developmentally. A person's brain only becomes less malleable or able to absorb and retain information as they age. \nIf we removed the idea of student debt from the picture would tertiary education be either cruel or predatory? In many countries this is already the case.", ">\n\nWhile I understand the source of the financial impact on the student, there isn’t really anything we can do that will change that in the near future", ">\n\nSure there is, we can lobby our representatives for stronger financial support for students attending tertiary institutions of learning. \nDeflecting from the source of financial impact and placing it on people pressuring 18-year-olds into accruing student debt is defeatism, especially when the stats on median income support tertiary education being a net benefit for those students even factoring in significant accrual of student debt.\nThose people doing the \"cruel and predatory\" pressuring are being rational. It is on median worth it to go to college in America and it's not even close.", ">\n\nMaybe just make college affordable instead of encouraging them to wait until a period where they're unlikely to ever be able to devote their full attention to higher education.", ">\n\nWell when is it that college will be affordable? Never, lmao", ">\n\nThere are countries outside the us where college is affordable though.", ">\n\nFirst off, college is too expensive. Obviously, that is the main concern. It shouldn’t require massive loans for anyone. \nSecondly, as parents who see and are aware of the current higher-education shitshow, it is our responsibility to educate and prepare our kids. I have an 11 year old and she already knows college is unaffordable for us, and that she most likely will need to go to tech school for a while if she chooses that path. My kids are close in age and I try to teach them “team ideas” like they may want to share an apartment, and that’s probably a good idea since they already split chores and space in our home now. I also have a system where if they want something big, they can get a “loan” from me where they do chores to pay me back. If they don’t do them, they get charged a penalty. I clean houses and I’m teaching them how to do that on the side as well (I make about $40/hr). \nNone of this is ideal, but we have to do the best we can.", ">\n\nCollege is a good thing. Drinking and smoking aren't. It's like saying, \"It's cruel to force kids to eat vegetables even though they can't do heroine.\" Yes, college is expensive, but the average college grad makes about a million more dollars on their life than someone who just went to high school.", ">\n\nIt’s better than pointing I gun at them. I had a tendency to do that before cellphones. It always got their attention and they ended up driving much nicer.", ">\n\nWhat about countries that have free access to university?", ">\n\nYou didn't mention which society- there are several countries where you do not need to pay excessive loans for higher education.\nAdditionally, there are many schools in the United States which are more affordable. Many community colleges only cost a few thousand dollars per semester. This is still a substantial amount, but I think 10-20k in loans is far less cruel or predatory than 300 thousand dollars. The majority of public schools are going to be in 40-60k. Additionally, the majority of schools do not require you to pay for all four to six years in advance, it's semester by semester. So even at the more expensive state schools, the 18-year old adult is signing for 5-6k. I think this is a reasonable amount of money to be responsible for at that age.\nI would also argue that to a certain extent, 18 year old adults are mentally capable of understanding and signing contracts. The fact that society does not allow them to drink/smoke/rent a car doesn't have anything to do with their actual mental capabilities.", ">\n\nPapa said education is the only thing where money isn't wasted. Even if you owe $$$k, the critical thinking it leaves you is exponentially worthy if used properly. Critical thinking does not have to stay within the bounds of your profession.", ">\n\nCounterpoint: that only applies in the US.\nIn many other countries in the world where education is free and/or far more accessible it makes perfect sense. \nYour brain is better equipped to learn when you’re young. it’s a way to get into professions that you couldn’t start without studying. And there aren’t other life stresses like kids and careers in the way (usually). Studying young makes perfect sense.", ">\n\nThat is only in a few countries. In Argentina not only you gain the right(not the obligation yet) to vote at 16 you can drink and smoke at 18, you also gain the obligation to vote at 18 (yes, is mandatory to vote, if you dont you have to pay a small fine).\nTo add college is free so its a no brainer to go to college and start your degree.\nAnother reason to do college that fast its because its a bit easier to study if you come directly from high school. The pandemic made it harder for me to study because I lost the routine of going to class and the time spent there.", ">\n\nPersonally If I had taken a year or so off after high school I’m not sure I would’ve gone back to college. I was still in the school/education mindset and it would’ve been hard to get back into it. Even after I graduated with an undergrad degree someone mentioned going back for a graduate degree, and there would jsut be no way.", ">\n\nAll by design. If you wait til you're 30 to move out on your own and start a family, they're losing $$$$ on your mortgage and college housing expenses for those 10 ish years. I know some people stay home for college to save money, but most are moving out at 17/18 and going into debt immediately.\nWe can also talk about how they use the media and propaganda to break up homes.\nIt's all about $$$$", ">\n\nSo? Legalise drinking and smoking at 21. Hell that's legal at 16 in a lot of countries", ">\n\nJesus Christ 18 year olds can go to war and you’re saying it’s cruel to give them an education?", ">\n\nNo that’s really not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying it’s cruel that they have to incur this amount of debt to receive an education", ">\n\nIs it also problematic that we don't let 14 year olds decide to drop out of high school? And it's not like college is in anyway mandatory, it's just the next stage of school after high school. You don't have to go, it's just a very good idea for you to. As for the whole \"think about what they're missing out on\", I would be much more worried about what they're missing out on by not going to college.\nAlso, the comment about 300k debt is just so entirely beside the point. 99.9% of college students don't ever go anywhere near that level of debt, and those that do are usually going to law-school/medical school. Regardless, if we think this is a problem the obvious solution is to make college more affordable, not encourage people to forgo college. I also don't see why this decision is anymore serious than any other sort of decision we allow 18 year olds to make (to get married, to join the military, to start a business/get a job, etc.). I don't see why college is so special.", ">\n\nYou are conflating together two separate concepts. One is going to college at 18 years old, an age that is fairly universal for collegiate studies. The other is going into debt to attend the college of their choosing.\nThe latter is a choice which can certainly have long term poor consequences. Or not. One does not have to attend and fully self-fund a private education at an out-of-state institution. If one's grades and achievement is not sufficient to reduce that cost to something reasonable, then one should look at other opportunities. And that is a life lesson as well.", ">\n\nYes, you are correct. However, given this is how it is in the US, I think that it is probably smart to hold off a bit on immediately going into school", ">\n\nThat should definitely be an option. I remember an engineering lab partner who was in his thirties. He went back to school later in life and he was one of the best students I ever worked with. He had a lot of real work experience and I learned as much from his habits and traits as I did from the class.", ">\n\n\nWe actively encourage kids to place themselves into binding contracts\n\nWhat universities force you to sign \"binding contracts\"? Are you under the impression that they will pursue legal action if you drop out after one semester or something?\n\nof their lives paying back up to 300k in student loans.\n\nThe majority of schools cost a tiny, tiny fraction of this. The only possible way of getting that much debt would be to get multiple/extended degrees from one of the most expensive schools or just blowing money away on dumb stuff. Which 18 years olds can also do. Why should an 18 year old be able to buy a 50k car but not spend 10k on tuition to a top school?\n\nHow is an 18 year old, who is legally barely capable of anything\n\n18 year olds in most countries/states can do just about everything a 50 year old can save for a few small exceptions. They are legally an adult in 99.9% of ways. They can enter into contracts, make large purchases, sign a lease, sign up for car payments, get a mortgage, vote, become a legal guardian etc.\n18 year olds can spend a ton of money on just about anything, and spending it on college is one of the smartest ways to drop 10-30k.", ">\n\nI just want to know where you live that an 18-year-old can't smoke. Isn't the legal age to buy cigarettes (and weed in Colorado) 18?", ">\n\nNope. 21 everywhere", ">\n\nWell I'll be damned. A lot has changed since I was 18, apparently. I mean, it HAS been a minute.\nAs for the question CMV in question - I'm not sure that clarity necessarily comes with age, but it would definitely be nice to have the option to \"start over\" in your 40s when you maybe have a better idea of what rings your bell. But what would I have been doing between 18 and 40? Living at home with my mom? I guess my point is that \"adulthood\" has to start somewhere and for some arbitrary reason we picked 18...", ">\n\nI think your way of thinking is very America centric which fair that’s where you grew up. \nBut college is definitely not that expensive everywhere. And many many people can’t really wait around to be sure of what they wanna do as they have to earn to survive. \nCollege and getting to do what you please is a luxury that many don’t have. \nNot saying you can’t take your time or do something else but don’t think that it’s an issue everyone faces.", ">\n\nYes I am sorry I’m ranting about America", ">\n\nIts cruel and predatory in the sense there are so many pitfall degrees out there. It's not nessesarily predatory on the people telling you to go to college so much as it is on the institutions extracting cash from students who go because they are told to go at every level.\nIt's entirely possible you go into college, get a degree, and just become a debt slave because you entered a degree program that has virtually no employable skills. \nIt's not nessesarily the fault of people who tell you to go and went pre 2008 because there weren't so many pitfall degrees and it wasn't so bad loan wise either.", ">\n\nBecause college benefits them long term, while drugs literally kill them??? \nI do think it is wrong to make people feel bad for NOT going, but to simply encourage them to keep the ball rolling is to hope for the best for them. Though I do think more emphasis should be on encouraging them to simply find their own way to success (whether it be college, trade school, or being a hippie surfer dude living in a van). Happiness SHOULD be how we measure personal success in an ideal society, but we live under the iron fist of capitalism, so money is ALL that matters if you want to survive here, let alone be happy.", ">\n\nYes, yes it is.", ">\n\nWell the problem is that \"pressure\" is in the form of college education being seen as the only secure method of social maintenance, let alone social advancement. \n18 year olds might not understand the specific legalese, but they know pretty dang well that it's some form of post high school education or being relegated to either minimum wage or higher because of hazard pay conditions lifestyle until they \"think better of it.\"\nThat pressure ain't societal, it's economic, parents will stop pushing kids into degree paths when a degree is no longer all but required for any first seen path to a decent standard of living, meaning companies have to stop requiring it for jobs that don't need it, which means that the feds would need to standardize and monopolize job applications to force companies to comply with not requiring bachelor's degrees for jobs that don't need it, because the only way the whiny middle manager butt munchers would ever is with the threat of a prison sentence for hiring discrimination hanging over their head.", ">\n\nHow about we lower the drinking and smoking age instead? People who are 18 are adults who are capable of making adult decisions. That includes where to go to college, what major to choose and how much to spend. It isn't cruel or predatory for 18 year olds to go to college, it's been happening in the US en masse for nearly a century.", ">\n\n\nWe say that this is because their decision making faculties are not yet fully developed so they need to wait.\nSo where is this logic when it applies to college?? \n\nSince their decision making faculties are not fully developed society makes many decisions for them. They decide that they cannot drink or smoke.\nOnly about 1/3rd of young people go to college. For those 1/3rd we decide that college is a good investment.\n\nHow is an 18 year old, who is legally barely capable of anything, understand the true implications of such a decision? \n\nan 18 year old can understand this. you'll rack up, on average 37k in debt and on average make 36k extra per year. (according to cursory google searches).\nThere are predatory schools out there, private for profit schools which produce poor outcomes for unfairly large tuitions. Pressuring a kid to go to a predatory school is obviously predator, but your local state school is almost certainly a good investment for anyone who is academically strong.\nfor the 2/3rds of kids who academics are not strong enough, we generally recommend other paths. Trade schools, 2 year degrees, apprenticeships, etc.", ">\n\nNo one forces you. I took a few years off in between while serving in the military.", ">\n\nfact is, education is very very difficult. it seems easy when you are young because you literally do it every day for 6 hours and you do it baby steps at a time. so if you were to stop for 1 year, most people would not be able to go back to that old grueling life style of education. that's why college must be nonstop right after high school. it's not predatory. nobody is making you go at 18, you can go at 19. most don't do it because their parents know it's bad.", ">\n\nIs your issue with college? \nOr with the cost of college?", ">\n\nMomentum. If you take a break from school, you’ll find it exponentially more difficult to return. You’re being “encouraged”, not forced. Get schooling out of the way, then get on with life….", ">\n\nAnyways, here are some responses I have to some comments I’ve seen a lot of. \n1: college students fresh out of high school are more likely to continue to grind, therefore making completing a degree easier for them than it would be for an older adult with other responsibilities outside of school. \nI completely agree with this point! It is definitely easier to complete school right from high school because it is what is familiar to them. \nI think the problem is that a lot of individuals are “grinding” without an overarching goal, which oftentimes leads to some sort of existential crisis and burnout. “Sophomore blues” don’t exist without a reason. I think it is easier for people to do what they must when they have clear goals in mind. It is already starting to take the average undergrad 5 years to complete a degree due to changing majors and academic leave. People who know what they’re there to do usually make more use out of their experience and have more discipline. But yes, it can definitely be harder to keep up with the pace while juggling more responsibilities.\n2: this is an American problem. \nTrue, and we envy you! It is definitely wise for US citizens looking to go to college to look into doing their schooling abroad these days (even though I understand you might not want us lol). \n3: 300k is inaccurate\nYeah, my bad. I’m definitely in the wrong there. \nSomething I will throw in there, though, is that many college graduates are starting to go to graduate school with the belief that it will bring them financial stability, which oftentimes easily pushes tuition fees past the 100k mark. \n4: the return is better with a college degree\nYes, many studies point to this. However, depending on your career choice, getting started as young as possible may serve you better for future returns. \nSomeone wrote something about how people aren’t going to college to do their “influencing” careers (or something with crypto). This is not what I mean by a career—I am talking about a career path with steady income and employment that is not based on some component of luck in order to make it big. \nWhen it comes to four year colleges, I am also talking about how we don’t inform teens on precautionary measures they can take to reduce their debt—I don’t mean that teens should completely avoid college. Students can take prerequisite courses at community colleges in order to avoid taking these same classes at a higher cost at a college or university. We don’t really help teens find ways they can lessen the blow of loans, and yeah, I do find that kind of cruel. \n5: I think it’s unjust that 18 year olds can go to college but can’t smoke. \nNo, I just find it interesting that we think 18 year olds aren’t responsible enough to make many decisions (those were examples, maybe bad ones) yet it is completely normalized for 18 year olds to take on significant amounts of debt for schooling. When it comes to many other matters, the consensus is that 18 year olds are too naïve or unaware of what they are doing to the point of which we actually bar them from taking various actions to protect them. We tend to think 18 year olds have a very poor gauge of money and its value. \nSomeone wrote a good point that 18 year olds are able to make other financial decisions such as taking out loans on cars, marriage, and applying for credit. My response is that these decisions are, for the most part, actually highly discouraged for 18 year olds to make. People generally think that 18 year olds should avoid taking out loans on things they can’t afford/repay and most 18 year olds who buy cars only buy them outright. I don’t know a single person who thinks getting married before 25 is acceptable, and credit limits are incredibly low for 18 year olds because most of them make little to no income. Therefore, I find it odd that society encourages teens to take on student debt (a loan that, for the most part, the repayment of is uncertain) and view those who do otherwise as “not caring” for their future. Kids in college who are paying money and don’t care about their future are making a far worse choice. \n6: going to college puts you around good influences and gives you plenty of networking opportunities. \nI mean, sure I guess? You can find bad people anywhere, and I wouldn’t call the binge drinking or hazing cultures that take place at colleges influential. In fact, at many of these wealthy institutions kids do a lot more drugs than most people outside of college who can’t afford boatloads of coke. \nAlso, this idea that the “good people are in college” comes from the same sentiment that stigmatizes teens who do not attend college. Also, I think it’s pretty weird that people seem to think that successful networking is only done in college. You can form connections to anyone anywhere, really (also, as someone who is around a lot of people who call making friends “networking”, it seems pretty superficial). \n7: people figure themselves out in college. \nThis is subjective, and there are many less expensive (maybe even free!) ways to develop your sense of identity and goals in life. Speaking for myself, I figured out my direction in life entirely outside of university and college feels like a fever dream. I can’t give an objective response to this point but I don’t agree that adolescents can only “find themselves” in this bubble that is quite detached from real life. \nOverall, what I’m saying is that college is becoming less and less the “right choice” for a lot of people: the degree market is oversaturated, the undergraduate unemployment rate is growing, and job security is rapidly on the decline. I think these reasons make a good case for teens to explore alternative options such as trade schools (job growth out of trade schools are growing rapidly) and rethink whether college is pivotal or not to their personal and financial success. Yeah, I do find it pretty cruel that we throw kids into making these decisions when they are, for the most part, ill-informed. It’s especially messed up when we all kind of know that college tuition in the US is fucking ridiculous and a bachelor’s degree doesn’t hold the same value it used to. \nMy apologies for the typos, I’m writing this from my phone\ntldr: worded post wrong, against loans and not so much school, but hate the stigma around not going to school", ">\n\nYour title suggests that you take issue with the education, but really what you're talking about is debt. Presumably, you don't think that societal pressure to attend college would be bad if it were free, like it is in many countries, right?\nMy point is that some people will get free or heavily subsidized higher education and some people's families can afford to pay for college without taking out loans. If we don't allow the less fortunate people (those who have less money or live in places where college is more expensive) to take out loans to fund their education, then they'd be placed at an even greater disadvantage. The loans are a way of leveling the playing field.\nThat being said, there really does need to be some reform in the way higher education is financed in the US.", ">\n\nI agree. I changed my major twice, graduated and only now realized I want to do a complete different thing", ">\n\nEveryone’s different. For me, i needed to keep momentum or id fall apart", ">\n\nThat’s true. I was so discombobulated—I needed to understand what I was doing there first", ">\n\nI get why, when you have a house to pay for and a job, you dont really have the time. And if you managed to have a kid, even worse. Less people would probably go to college if they didn't go right away. Not to mention, being away from school for 4+ years, you likely forget a lot of things you learned from hs.\nThough I didnt go right away, and I know many who didnt.", ">\n\nMy question is - if not continuing education, then what?\nNo point or great ability to start a career right after high school. If you feel you'll likely end up in college, why start a career that you'll end up having to leave?\nIf not working, parents are footing the bill for their 18 year old to do - what? If they're going to pay for cost of living I would think the preference would be for that living to be WHILE pursuing education, not just teaching them to live off someone else's dime.\nThe gap year for travel and soul searching only works if the 18yr of has saved up for it and/or if parents foot the bill - which again, as a parent myself - I'd much rather pay for college than for a wordwide hostile tour.\nYes, debt isn't great and 18 is young, but I have yet to hear a better alternative", ">\n\nNo it’s not. You have a finite number of good years to be able to have the energy to learn your trade to a high level of competence. Past your early to mid 30’s things get harder because you will likely pick up commitments with your personal life plus work. People need to experience a lot of things quickly- like in about 5 years tops and then commit to learning and executing. That’s kind of 18-23. After that , you’d want to have at least an idea of what you want to do with yourself and commit to it. Keep on putting off a business idea, a trade, a career- whatever it is you like the sound of- and it will eventually be late enough in the day that you will be more likely to give up than to press on. \nThere’s stories about guys who’ve started successful businesses etc in their middle age (Ray Kroc from McDonald’s was about 50 when he made it big) but those are only the exceptions, not the rule.", ">\n\nI honestly believe the inverse. Kids are in school for TOO long. Think about it. You have kids spend 12 years of their lives with free mandatory education then by the time they are working age they are unable to contribute to any specialized workforce without a significant financial contribution and MORE education! In our highly specialized society kids have no wiggle room in regard to the timeframe in which they can pick a skill. I think we need to emphasize specialization much earlier on and allow kids to experiment and gain experience while their education is government sponsored.", ">\n\nThis whole argument falls apart in the removal of student loans. \nWhich of course is predatory. \nBut it's not predatory to expect 18-19-20 year olds to make decisions for themselves.", ">\n\nWell, it’s not as if the student loans are going to be removed, so I don’t exactly see how this critical point can just be taken out of the argument", ">\n\nWhat I mean is the issue you have seems to be more with student loans, and less of the expectation that 18-19-20 year olds to make lasting decisions on their life. \nThe cost of college can be easily mitigated by:\n\n\nScholarships\n\n\nCollege Funds \n\n\nCommunity College/4-Year college hybrid\n\n\nWhere you live, especially since the predatory industry is uniquely American\n\n\nProbably some others I'm neglecting to mention. \n\n\nSo yes, student loans are the critical point to your argument, but that's kind of my point.", ">\n\nCapitalism, the earlier kids go to get higher education, to get a job and pay taxes and such the faster government can get more money", ">\n\nIs this an American issue I’m too European to understand?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\n:(", ">\n\nBut if you weren't in debt up to your eyeballs you would demand fair working conditions and reasonable compensation.", ">\n\n1- please save this and Revisit once you're 30. 2- No, its 100% LOGICAL to keep going and NOT take a break! Id bet that less than 5% of “break year kids“ ended up becoming successful as quickly as their peers that went straight to college! 3- what exactly do u NEED to do on break, that you cant do in college? (😉ahhh nothing but f up right? Lol) 4- kids under 25, ESPECIALLY under 18 need parental guidance--hence why rental car companies dont trust 24yr olds😭)", ">\n\nValid", ">\n\nIf there was some kind of assessment to see if kids are truly ready (emotionally, psychologically, life experiences) for the responsibilities and challenges of college.\nSome kids do a year of travel, but most don't have money for that. I think a \"between high-school & college bootcamp\", that tries to teach kids who didn't have a lot of experience being out on their own would be helpful.", ">\n\nIt is not cruel to encourage young people to better themselves. Whether it is recommending going to college, acquiring life skills, doing a trade, getting a job or any other method really. Bettering yourself while you are young is generally going to lead to better outcomes. People who encourage young people to improve themselves are not being cruel.", ">\n\nThat is not what the post is saying", ">\n\nIt's what the title and original sentiment of op was. It's the most extreme part of the belief, which is why I chose to challenge it.", ">\n\nI believe every 18 year old should do 2 years of community (ameriserve) or military service.", ">\n\nThanks for the insight", ">\n\nCollege is the most traumatic thing that can happen to anyone, and (if I ignore all your apologies) you are right. No young person deserves that amount of pain. My mum, who didn’t go to college, is already telling my 5yo nephew that he should. When he is closer to the age of finishing high school, I will set him straight, instead of brainwashing him from such a young age.", ">\n\nOver 300 comments on this post and you didn't award a single delta? Nobody changed or adjusted your view in any way?", ">\n\nI have spent a lot of time responding but I will read through.", ">\n\nIn Germany it‘s very common to do a gap year where you go abroad and work a little bit. New Zealand is quite popular for this.\nIt helps you to figure stuff out. And the university itself is only like 600€ per year, so that helps too. In that situation it makes sense to start early, as it‘s easiest to continue your study routine.", ">\n\nI'm writing from an Israeli perspective. \nIn Israel, the accepted route is this one: at the age of 18 we go to the army to serve for 2-3 years (sometimes more). after that, we usually go for a long trip, something like 4 months-1 year around the world (usually we go to South America, India, or to Southeast Asia). and only after that, at the age of approximately 22-23, we go to college. \nAs an Israeli I think it makes much more sense.", ">\n\nSo the student loan problem can really be predatory so I’ll concede that but financial ignorance can generally be just as predatory across any age group. Some of the financial statistics out there are pretty wild. That’s not to cheapen this but to point out that generally as a country seemingly not making horrible financial decisions can be difficult for us.\nBiggest point I wanted to dig into was the idea of a student not knowing what they wanted to do. While anecdotal I’ve spoken to thousands of people in a professional capacity and have only met a handful that specifically wanted to do something then strived to accomplish it. For many people career choice was a combination of earning potential, passing course load and the work itself not boring them to death. My point is many older people didn’t suddenly learn what they wanted to do. Many tried a few things and narrowed it down. I studied accounting in college and tried it for 2 years and determined it wasn’t for me lol. I reinvented myself would going to college and do something pretty different now. I’ve met countless people with similar stories from all over the place and most didn’t go back to school. I’ve met plenty of trades people that would absolutely do something else if they could and earn a similar income.", ">\n\nAgreed in that many 18 years olds have no clue what they want to do.\nHowever I'm assuming you're based in America because of the no drinking/smoking thing. But I'm guessing you do it anyway?\nIn some ways uni students are better off than British ones. You get to study loads of subjects and 'choose your major' and generally experiment with loads of classes. In the UK you pick your subject and that's it for the whole 3 years unless you fancy your chances starting again. At least you guys get a bit more choice.\nAnd who forced you to go? You decided to go to uni. You may have felt like you had no other choice but you didn't have to go.", ">\n\nWhile many people suggest the issue lies in not educating the youth about things like loans and adulting in general, I’m still 100% with you that it is cruel to enforce a social norm for all 18 year olds to go to college immediately because they “should”. Even if finances aren’t a big concern, the American Education System, specifically in higher education such as college and grad school have many faults, and it shouldn’t be expected of everyone to partake in that corrupt system, even if they are fully educated and aware of the student loan process.", ">\n\nThe problem is not pushing kids to go to college right after high school. That's the best time in life to get further education. \nThe problem is that, specifically in USA, education stops being free after High School. \nYou're on the right track, that putting college graduates in such immense debt is predatory, but you're barking up the wrong tree. Instead of pushing kids away from college, you should be pushing for free college education.", ">\n\nSociety benefits from having a more educated population...so it is a good thing to push young adults toward more education. At the same time, it is important to note that college isnt for everyone, as you mentioned...but I think that that young people should give it a shot and become a bit more educated. Sure, they could graduate and work at a store and try to work themselves up the corporate ladder...but eventually they will hit a education barrier. Loans allow people to go to school and give it a try. They can pay it back with their higher earnings post graduation once they become what they wanted to...whether that is a Engineer, Programmer, or Management. The ones that struggle are the ones that dont realize that what you study in school matters...a lot. Taking loans and using that money to study something not productive and in demand is a recipe for struggle.", ">\n\nThey need to be a adult at some point.", ">\n\nBeing an adult ≠ going to college", ">\n\n\nSomeone wrote a good point that 18 year olds are able to make other financial decisions such as taking out loans on cars, marriage, and applying for credit. My response is that these decisions are, for the most part, actually highly discouraged for 18 year olds to make. People generally think that 18 year olds should avoid taking out loans on things they can’t afford/repay and most 18 year olds who buy cars only buy them outright. I don’t know a single person who thinks getting married before 25 is acceptable, and credit limits are incredibly low for 18 year olds because most of them make little to no income. Therefore, I find it odd that society encourages teens to take on student debt (a loan that, for the most part, the repayment of is uncertain) and view those who do otherwise as “not caring” for their future. Kids in college who are paying money and don’t care about their future are making a far worse choice.\n\nI have a couple of issues with your response to this argument.\nWhile it is highly discouraged to take out large loans on a car, take out a large line of credit, get married, etc, I think you massively downplay the incredible returns that college has on average. Over the course of a lifetime, college graduates make $900,000 (for men)/$630,000 (for women), than high school graduates. (source) For comparison, the average 4 year debt for a bachelor's degree is about $31,000 (source) . \nTo your point about repayment being uncertain, when you look at the data on the subject, student loan delinquency is a minority case and those who don't complete their degree are more likely to be delinquent. About 8% of those who complete their bachelor's degree are student loan delinquent. (source)\nSo, the reason why we don't encourage the other things that include large loans and encourage college instead is because 1) a car doesn't increase in value and is generally not an investment and marriage can be an investment but most people after high school do not have a stable enough income stream to make it work. Other types of loans that 18 year olds can take out just aren't investments with the same type of returns that college has.", ">\n\nDon't like my opinion? Like these little petty games? Then it seems my time would be more beneficial for me spent somewhere else. Enjoy yourself and your agenda.", ">\n\nWhat?", ">\n\nNot all countries are like the US where post-secondary education costs can be extortionate. In many European countries, post-secondary education is either free-of-charge or the annual cost is low enough to not be a debt trap (e.g. in the Netherlands it's less than 3000 euros annually). \nIn those countries, is it cruel/predatory to encourage a post-secondary path immediately after graduating high school?", ">\n\nYou know what it means to lack a sense of humor, right?", ">\n\nMaybe a year of service, military, or nursing homes, or national parks, etc mandatory at 18." ]

[ "There's nothing inherently wrong with continuing higher education after high school. It's arguably the best time to do so before you have other financial or social responsibilities that would prevent you from being able to dedicate yourself to it.\nThe problem is that everything in our society costs too much. In the past, you could pay your own way through college on a part time job. Hell, you could even buy a car and a house and raise a family on an entry-level wage. The fact that college requires crippling debt is a symptom of an economic failure in society toward the working class, not an inherent issue with a college education. Even factoring that into account, it's still usually better to go to college.", ">\n\nThe average debt at graduation is $29K. Basically a car loan in return for 30-50 years of career benefits, including higher pay, lower chance of unemployment, and preferential hiring.", ">\n\nWhere are you getting that statistic from? Just the housing and meals in my area for a college student is over 12 grand a year, and that doesn't include any tuition.", ">\n\nTo be fair housing and meals is an expense you'd have anywhere if you move away from parents", ">\n\nSure, but if you move out of your parents house to work full time, vs putting it into high interest debt or chipping away at a part time job is a big difference.\nI just calculated in state and out of state tuition for the school I went to, and it puts the rough estimate of yearly costs at 26k and 48k, respectively, for tuition, room and board.\nIt's a state school.", ">\n\nStaying in state is a huge cost savings for sure.", ">\n\nYup, still about a six figure debt if you don't work or get scholarships though, cost of college is insane. I went through the military, and it's sad that it's the only cheap way for decent schools.", ">\n\nMy state school was a bit cheaper although not by much - prob about 22k/yr for tuition and board. Then there were a couple small scholarships was able to find for $500-$3k each.\nI think that price for college is about the max that it's \"worth\". Otherwise getting into over six figure debt isnt a great way to start. Not to mention all of the people who find out they don't even want to use their degree.", ">\n\nYup. I got an engineering degree out of it, but for anything that's not guaranteeing a job of 80+ out of school definitely needs to be brought down on the cost of tuition", ">\n\nIsn't the real issue here the limited understanding of the impact of large financial decisions at 18 rather than anything about college? If a kid comes from a wealthy family that will pay their way, why shouldn't they consider college? If our society subsidized college making it relatively \"free,\" why shouldn't they consider college? The basic idea is that there are other considerations and solutions rather than focusing on people's age.", ">\n\nYou could argue that even if college were free it might not be the right path for everybody, but I suppose one could drop out in that case. Still, I think people should be able to make these kinds of decisions for themselves without feeling social or familial pressure one way or the other.", ">\n\nThe opportunity cost for college is at its lowest point right out of high school. That is the main reason to go then.", ">\n\nYep - if you’re going to go at all, that time immediately after high school is when your remuneration at any job will be at its lowest point, so you’re best applying yourself then. Also, you’re the most-likely to have the least responsibilities/obligations at this time (kids, mortgage, marriage) than any other time in your life.", ">\n\nIt's also when your brain is the freshest. It's just gonna get more and more sluggish after age 20.", ">\n\nYep - your 20s are when you should be applying yourself to learning as much as possible (and that doesn’t only mean in college - lots of ways to learn things). And in your 30s mastering a craft.", ">\n\nYes, very anti-US. I envy you guys", ">\n\n\n\nCollege is optional. Nobody has to go at all. Anyone who chooses to go, should be smart enough to research their choices and the implications of student loans. \n\n\nGap years are so common that most colleges allow incoming students to defer enrollment their first year. \n\n\nA $300k price tag in the US is for private colleges. State college average cost for 4 years is $125k. In some states like NY if your family makes under $125/year tuition is free. Community college is far less at $5k a year. And all of this depends on your income level and how much financial aid you receive. This is all information that is publicly available. If you choose to attend a private college you can’t afford, see my first point.", ">\n\n\nCollege is optional. Nobody has to go at all. Anyone who chooses to go, should be smart enough to research their choices and the implications of student loans. \n\nIt is getting a lot better and things are swinging back to where trades arent being discouraged, but there was a time period where it was college or bust and that was the message that was pushed hard when I was in high school", ">\n\nSame here. But trade schools were designed to keep low income people out of colleges. Have you ever seen a rich person digging ditches? Most of the options seem male-oriented and you have to be in good shape. And dentists and docs can't be made in trade-school", ">\n\nI'll agree they are male oriented, but you don't have to be in shape to be an electrician, plumber, welder, etc", ">\n\nWhen I was in high school (class of 2017), we had military recruiters - quite regularly; they'd set up a booth in the cafeteria at lunch and give out little prizes if you could do 10 burpees or whatever - but no college recruitment, ever. Just to clarify, would you say the same reasoning applies to pressuring them into any sort of binding decision like that?\nThat aside, I would point out a few factual considerations. I don't know if they'll be decisive, but on the chance that they could be:\n\nTypical debt on graduation, for those who have any, is about $30k; $300k would be more like the sticker price (for four years) of an expensive private school.\nChanging their mind about career doesn't necessarily mean more time in college; most majors are applicable to many professions, unless they want to go into a few licensed fields, and changing majors in the first two years often has minimal penalty anyway.", ">\n\nPrecisely. The idea that college is job training is simply wrong. Only a few majors directly lead to jobs; nursing, engineering, and architecture being the ones that come to mind. The rest are all academic disciplines; math, English, literature, history, government, political science, chemistry, physics, biology, psychology, sociology, philosophy, and so on. None of those are direct-to-job majors.\nAnd all majors take essentially the same classes the first 2-3 years. You only really have one year of the four that’s dedicated to your area of study. And about a half year of electives which, depending on what’s chosen, may or may not have anything to do with your major directly.", ">\n\nYour main gripe appears to be that there is a lack of maturity and responsibility among 18-year-olds, and that this prevents them from being able to make decisions regarding college/uni.\nIm not American so i don’t know how exactly the voting age works - but you seem to equate seriousness of the supposed disenfranchisement and legal disadvantages with not being able to drink or smoke so I’ll view them as not very limiting. That notwithstanding, these supposed legal limitations can be set independently of their ability to make decisions, so it’s not fair to assert that they don’t have the ability to judge the implications of going to uni based on such rules. \nYou suggest that it’s flippant to go to college at the age of 18 as one wouldn’t know what they want to do with their lives - which I view as totally illogical because that is where you will go to figure yourself out, most people I know who went to college did not know where they would end up but found their career, passion, etc while there. \nYou also point at this American debt issue, again I can’t make in-depth judgements about it, but these days a college degree is pretty much required for a well paying job. As someone else pointed out, the return on investment is positive so while yeah, the debt is ludicrous, a college degree is better overall. \nThe age of eighteen is the prime time to go to college/ uni imo, your ability to learn does start dropping off in your mid-to-late 20s. Your college years aren’t for making concrete decisions, that’s for later in your life. If the ages of 18 to 22 or beyond are best used learning and exploring and after 25 is when you temper down and mature, then youd ought go to college right out of HS.", ">\n\nDoes this just have to do with high tuition cost? In certain countries, college education is very cheap. You think it is fine in these countries for 18 year olds to go straight into college?", ">\n\nAlmost nobody is taking on $300k worth of loans. \nAs for \"pressure\" the reality is that a college education affords you significant upward economic mobility if you come from meager means, and is critical to remain financially stable if you come from a financially stable family.\nFurther, there are important skills you learn in college that you don't learn in high school. Statistical literacy. Formal/professional writing. Critical thinking. Ability to read technical reports and understand what is being discussed. These skills are all equally taught no matter what your major is, and all are important in most modern careers.\nFurther, college serves as a community for building a professional network. In addition to the network of people you meet in your classes and day yo day life, you also have access to university-organized job fairs where you can talk directly to industry recruiters. \nFinally, regardless of your major, a college degree can be a critical stepping stone towards professional careers such as medicine, law, business, etc., and in fact those diverse major backgrounds can be a boon for applicants to these sorts of programs.\nSo, college is actually a good thing and it is not necessarily a problem that an 18 year old doesn't know precisely what they want to do with their lives.\nThe alternative is also just not as good. Let's say you take 5 years off to work menial jobs before deciding to go to college to pursue a career you love. Now your study skills, reading skills, writing skills, etc are unpracticed for 5 years. You're older and may have other responsibilities in your life that will interfere with your studies (especially kids!). And you're likely to have less time to actually work in your chosen career to pay off those loans. So, you get less out of it and you're less prepared for it. Is that a better solution? I don't think so.", ">\n\nFirst, you're wrong that nobody is taking $300k out in loans. It may be a shocker, but there are people who decide not to go to in-state public schools...and when you do this your tuition immediately doubles ... average cost of college is $35k a year, and most students get their degree in 5+ years. That's on average $175k. Choosing to go to top tier school will be more like $65k/year which puts you in the $325k range.\nDo most parents pay for some of this? Do most get some sort of financial aid? Do most people pay for at least some college upfront? Yes of course. But not all.", ">\n\n\nFirst, you're wrong that nobody is taking $300k out in loans. It may be a shocker, but there are people who decide not to go to in-state public schools...and when you do this your tuition immediately doubles ... average cost of college is $35k a year, and most students get their degree in 5+ years. That's on average $175k.\n\nIt's possible to accrue this type of debt if you go to an out-of-state private school, but that just means most people probably shouldn't do that.\n\nChoosing to go to top tier school will be more like $65k/year which puts you in the $325k range.\n\nContrary to common belief, Ivys are extremely generous with low-income students. They charge rich kids the full sticker price, but the price for low-income students is very low (Harvard advertises that students from families who make less than $75,000 don't pay anything to attend).", ">\n\n\nIt's possible to accrue this type of debt if you go to an out-of-state private school, but that just means most people probably shouldn't do that.\n\nI mean that's really the OP's point - 17/18 YO are not typically equipped to make a sound financial decision here.", ">\n\nGiven that college education is the best vehicle for social mobility (and this has been backed up a ton in the literature) it seems to me that saying “reconsider going to college because you are too ignorant to make a good financial decision right now” is throwing the baby out with the bath water. The proper intervention is to do a better job educating students on their options.", ">\n\nI felt this way for a while, but the success rate for post-secondary education is fairly decent. I've also heard multiple arguments that many younger people have an easier time with a full-time course load than older people do. In my own experience, coming back to college at age 26 was better for me mentally, but harder financially. I'm 33, and still haven't completed a degree because my financial and mental health problems push me to take extended breaks while I save money and regroup internally. Anecdotally, many young students are used to full-time education, because it's all they've ever known. It's easier for many to just stay in the grind and knock it out before moving on to the next stage in life.\nPersonally, I think the problem isn't that we push kids in too young, it's the way we handle tuition. The US does alright overall, but many countries handle school finances and culture differently, and have better overall outcomes for students.\nLastly, it's worth a nod to your argument in that high school students in the US aren't often made aware of trade schools and other post-secondary education options. Maybe we would see success rates rise if students with talents outside of traditional education were encouraged to pursue those, rather than pushing them into the same system as \"everyone else.\"", ">\n\nPeople CHOOSE to go to expensive schools. My entire college education including room and board for a B.S. in a stem field cost less than 40k.", ">\n\nSmart. You can get an engineering degree at a state school for under $40k.", ">\n\n\nHow is an 18 year old, who is legally barely capable of anything, understand the true implications of such a decision?\n\nMost aren’t spending $300k. You’re off by an order of magnitude. The current average isn’t even over $30k. \nEven at $30k debt that’s an entirely reasonable amount of money to spend to get a $900k lifetime return. \nWhere’s the issue? Spend some now earn more over your lifetime.", ">\n\n\nThere are numerous studies that show that only a small percent of degrees are actually profitable. \n\nCitation needed.\nThe median high-school-only full-time income is well under the 25th percentile bachelor's-or-higher income, so a large majority of four-year graduates out-earn most high-school-only graduates.", ">\n\nWhich means... 84% make less. That's the opposite of your point. Most college grads out-earn most high school grads, like I said.\nFor that matter, the first heading on your first source's full report is \"Earnings Generally Increase\nwith More Education\". And take a look at Fig. 5 - bearing in mind that the median lifetime income with a high school diploma is $1.6M (Fig. 2), every single category of majors out-earns the median high school graduate (the lowest being Education, with a median of $2M). Your source conclusively and consistently supports my claim.\nNo one is denying that exceptions exist.", ">\n\n\nYes but my point was not all degrees are profitble not that collage doesnt give you a chance to make more money. \n\nYou specifically said only a small percentage of degrees are profitable. \"A small percentage\" is not \"not all\". As I said, no one denies that exceptions exist.", ">\n\nIn that case, sure. I don't think it's really disputed that, say, social work or education is poorly paid given the degree requirement, and not a great investment financially.", ">\n\nCruel and predatory? Feels like you just chose 2 random negative words because you didn't want to say 'bad' twice.\nAlso your issue doesn't seem to be with studying, but with getting tuition. Maybe you should argue for free public education instead.", ">\n\n\nFeels like you just chose 2 random negative words because you didn't want to say 'bad' twice.\n\nThat's the mark of an educated man.", ">\n\nThat's the mark of someone wanna trigger emotional response form reader. It's a\nstretch to use those words in this post", ">\n\n\nSo where is this logic when it applies to college?? We actively encourage kids to place themselves into binding contracts where they may have to spend a decent chunk (or the rest) of their lives paying back up to 300k in student loans.\n\nNope. They got ONE loan for ONE semester. Attended classes for 4 months while talking to teachers and peers. And then decided that it still made sense and took out ANOTHER loan for another semester. And so on…. a lot more times. At any point they could realize it was a mistake, if they decided that, and leave.\nAnd the average debt at graduation, is $29K.", ">\n\nFair.", ">\n\n\nbarely able to vote\n\nYou're either old enough or not. And at 18, you can vote. As a matter of fact, booze, cigarettes and running for President of the US are pretty much the only things you can't do. You are considered an adult in almost every other way. Stop infantilizing 18 year olds and treating them all like incompetent idiots.", ">\n\nIdk I was a pretty incompetent idiot (nice word choice) at 18", ">\n\nYou shouldn't generalize others from self.", ">\n\nYou definitely shouldn't...but 18 year olds are generally morons. Not their fault, but generally true.", ">\n\nI was a \"non-traditional\" student, so you're preaching to the choir. But I can think of a few reasons why social pressure to go straight to college makes sense:\n\nKeep the momentum going! It's very hard to go to the \"real world\" and then back to school. You get caught up in life: rent, bills, freedom, etc. Not everyone has the luxury of staying with their parents, and the USA does not have the social support networks in place to enable gap-year folks like some other countries.\nReturn on investment! Kickstarting your career early can provide some crazy high return on investment. Both literally, in the form of early investing in stocks, as well as more figuratively in the form of higher career trajectory and fluidity.\nSocietal impact! On a macro scale, what we want is productive and contributing members of society. Pushing folks into school might not be the best for an individual, but it's very likely best for society as a whole.\n\nAnd I can think of a direct counterpoint to your assertion, as well. It's no more predatory than the fact that an 18 year old can open a credit card, sign a mortgage, get married, take out a car loan, sign up for life insurance, etc. All those things can be tools, and can also be predatory when abused by assholes looking to profit. And the people getting preyed on really run the whole gamut of society - there are 50 year olds who are signing objectively bad loans, racking up tens of thousands in credit card debt and signing mortgages way outside their means. So unfortunately I don't think this particular industry is any worse than all the others in which an individual can shoot themselves in the foot by not thinking critically about their choices.", ">\n\nFortunately American colleges treat students like children in lots of ways, from making sure they are housed to keeping attendance in class. So that more or less works out OK.", ">\n\nHow does predatory fit in here? Colleges do advertise, but the people doing most of the advocating don't stand to gain anything from the bad advice.\nIs it the government providing loans that's predatory? Leaving aside someone that's politically left having to state the government is predatory; I assume just like with private companies, the terms of the loan are straight forward; They tell you exactly what the loan will cost if you only make minimum payments. This actually seems less predatory than companies selling products where they omit problems or important context with the product (eg - iRobot doesn't clearly tell you the various sensor issues their vacuums have).\nSo who is the predator here?", ">\n\nI pressured both my kids NOT to straight after school. They ignored me and went anyway.", ">\n\nAs opposed to what? Travel the world? Sit around playing FFXI? “Cultivate a hobby”?\nWith whose money? Living where? Will your parents just pay for you to travel the world for the “experience”? Will they just let you live with them while you get your Mythic Weapon to ilvl 119? The answer is probably no. Paying either part of or all your tuition is one more kindness your parents are doing for you, you can’t expect them to pay for you to lounge around. Especially American families, where it’s all about one self rather than the family unit. You don’t know how many threads I’ve read where people tell others to just ditch their parents and let them “rot in a nursing home”. Forget that they spent 18+ years of their life taking care of you. \nIf your answer is “I’ll work”, then what work? Delivering pizza? Because you’ll be hard pressed to find a good job at 18 with no degree. \nTherefore, what you’re suggesting is simply infeasible for most people.", ">\n\nThe problem here is not sending young adults to college. That's a good idea because both their school knowledge and learning methods are still there.\nThe problem is a system where going to college costs 300k.", ">\n\nBut it doesn’t. It would only cost that if you paid nothing, went to the most-expensive private school you could find, and did it all with debt while also funding your living expenses with debt too.\nThe average debt at graduation is only $29K. So, clearly, few have that type of debt. Certainly vanishingly-few who are getting bachelors degrees. Most people who get into six-figure debt from school end up lawyers and physicians.", ">\n\nOP: Going to college is not close to being cruel and predatory. Setting up someone for failure is.\nBeing around an scholastic environment with people who are seeking to improve their lives and education is legitimately the opposite of what you have said. \nGuess what else you can take at college. Trade school programs, certifications, and the degree to ensure your knowledge and success. \nMost people can even get financial aid for help! You don't need to go to a Ivy league school. Now adays most employers don't give a fuck. You just have to be educated and able to do the job.\nGuess what? Humans need to learn and need to face resistance in the mind and body to improve and strengthen. Heavy weight and resistance will force the body to build muscle or strength. Learning will force the mind to expand it's capabilities.\nA young person, especially someone around 18 is vulnerable to negative influence. They really should be around positive people and a positive environment. There are many vices that will ruin a life, and trust me on this. The worst influencers are seriously not trying to go to college and improve their life.", ">\n\n\nMost people can even get financial aid for help! You don't need to go to an Ivy league school. Now adays most employers don't give a fuck.\n\nCorrection: nobody gives a fuck. Other than pretentious dummies or people whose goal was to skate through life on the “good old boy’s network” of grads from their alma mater.", ">\n\nAlot of people in this thread are campaigning hard for thr benefits of college. And I 100% agree, the stats don't lie. But it's more nuanced than that. As an elementary school kid I always heard from my teachers \"you need to go to college to be successful\" and that's not inherently true. What is not often talked about is choice of major, which imo is an even more important choice than choosing whether to go to college or not. \nAlot of 18 year Olds don't know what they want to do, and I saw many MANY people get degrees in stuff that hasn't helped them at all. Or change degrees after wasting alot of time and money on their first degree choice. What I'm trying to say is that engineering degree and a theater degree are 2 different things. I could graduate with an art degree tomorrow and it's no guerentee I make 6 figures ever. Granted, I'm sure there are art majors making alot of money, but the job field isn't exactly as fruitful as other majors. \nEven things like teachers. My brother Is a teacher and my other brother with a trade job makes twice as much as him without needing a degree", ">\n\nA lot of people in this thread probably went to college.", ">\n\nI used to have the same thought about drinking and smoking, but what benefit does either have more than college?\nI don't think the problem is that they go to college, I think the problem is they go to college wanting a degree in something that they were told in high school would make them 6 figures starting salary. So they jump in for the money and never figure out what their passion is which leads to a college degree that becomes useless when they realize they can't get a job.", ">\n\nThe way I approached college was to start taking core/required classes (English, math, history, government, etc) while choosing electives that were subjects that looked interesting but I knew nothing/little about. Doing that helped me find the major I wanted. And, while I never worked in that field after graduating, it held me in good stead and I was successful in the field I ended up wanting to work in.", ">\n\nThat is a smart approach and often it seems college is almost set up for people to take that route. I think some just don't take the time to look into different electives to find what they enjoy.", ">\n\nIn 1969 when I first went to uni there was any government loans, the tuition was $200 a semester with no limitations on credit hours taken, then gov loans came in and tuitions sky rocketed and have continued to do so ever since along with restrictions on how many subjects you take. I agree this was a predatory act done intentionally so schools could make money, kind of a sideways attempt at government sponsored education.", ">\n\nI think trade schools don't get mentioned often enough as legit beginning on a decent career path.", ">\n\nMost kids see no glory in such blue-collar work, feel they’d have “settled” and be looked down upon, and also see four years where they can continue hanging out with their friends while not working, versus taking a full-time job and “getting started”. Not hard to imagine they prefer the easy “glory” path to the “get busy and become a taxpaying member of society” path.", ">\n\nBecause if they don't go immediately they likely will never go. \nWhich for many wouldn't be a bad thing.", ">\n\nIn many of Asian and European countries, college education is funded by the governments and is not as atrocious as here in the US. Arguably, continuing education whilst young has lots of benefits because it's well understood that learning declines as we age.", ">\n\nI sure wish I had more time to figure out what I wanted to do. Tuition is relatively cheap where I am and my parents paid for it - but I studied something I have no passion for, so my outlook is not great right now. I wish I had the funds to go back and get another degree but it would mean going in debt and being financially fucked for who knows how long. If I took a few extra years to work and have a better idea of what I wanted to study I probably would've made a better decision and been in a better place now? who knows", ">\n\nThis!!", ">\n\nSee if your school has a Co-op program. You work 6 months and go to school for 6 months.", ">\n\nThat’s smart", ">\n\nI propose your issue isn't with college itself, but the government and culture surrounding college.\nFor example, tuition for college was massively subsidized before Nixon made sweeping cuts to it, in order to silence political dissenters from colleges.\nCollege education does provide valuable skills. It's predatory nature comes from legalized price gouging of tuition and needed materials. On top of this, the government profits on the loans it gives out for school. Not only are you required to pay taxes for life to fund education, but you're required to pay extra in the form of student loans+interest.\nColleges are aware of this and do profit on it. The worst of it comes in the form of politicians profiting on these loans (by owning private lending businesses, voting to increase their wages using taxes, requiring military service to join without massive debt then profiting on military action).\nIt's not the college doing this. It is a design of a proto-fascist state attempting to squeeze all value out of its lower classes. \nYou are becoming more aware of it and that's good.", ">\n\nPretty much an American thing. Very common for kids to take a year or two off elsewhere. Do what you wanna do and find the person you want to be.", ">\n\nI'd have to do research, but the only difference I'd make is to say either, \"It has become cruel and predatory,\" or, \"It has always been cruel and predatory.\" Tuition has soared, and predatory loans have replaced grants for poor students, but I'm skeptical there was ever a time college delivered all it promised. I think poor people saw college as a thing rich people did, so they thought if they did it they could get rich too, or at least less poor, but when you graduate you find the rich kids were just legitimizing a position that was always waiting for them, and you're still gonna have to strive and struggle.", ">\n\nDefinitely the latter", ">\n\n300k in loans if that 18 year old gets a PHD.\nMost bachelors are hella affordable. I paid for mine by working as a chinese food delivery driver part time, class of 2016.", ">\n\nI agree when it comes to the loans, total garbage.", ">\n\nParticularly when those 18 year olds are having to go into the kind of debt people who are buying houses go into. It’s not a reasonable expectation", ">\n\nI believe the pressure is actually a mix of permanent \"branding\" of a concept and a false illusion to reality.\n\"Going to college will get you a better paying job\"\nI know many and I'm sure many of you know folks who have these fancy papers going \"i r koolage stewdent\" and the person is working some crap job/temp till they find something that lets them use said piece of paper.\nA mix of schools and businesses (both work and loan company's) have either purposely or unpurposely set a form of gate keeping for \"better jobs\" and the only way to do said learning is to pay X$. Don't got the money? here sign this paper work putting you into heavy if not life long debt to learn this thing. No no ignore folks who have the degrees who even 10/20/30 years later are still paying it off cause the terms are not fair or in your favor. But you don't got a choice in lenders short of government aid but you better be poor or getting lots of scholarships. \nIt is beyond predatory and the fact the government is currently going \"these debts have cause decades of harm\" is proof they are really fucking stupid. Sadly the folks fighting it so hard is another unrelated topic. \nTo end this tho I share the same view on kids/\"new\" adults are forced into a position they shouldn't be due to a social structure that has proven detrimental for not just the individual but to the country as a whole.", ">\n\nI think you're conflating the decision of college with the decision of taking out student loans.\nI agree that an 18 year old should not be able to take out so much in student loans for a degree that everyone knew at the time wouldn't pay for itself. But I disagree that college is inappropriate for 18 year olds. 18 is a formative time in a person's life and college can be a good way to expose a person to many different perspectives and experiences that they otherwise wouldn't have an opportunity to experience.", ">\n\nThe problem isn't getting an education. The problem is;\n\nbeing convinced to go to overpriced universities which won't help you in the long run. Don't go somewhere for 100k to get a degree to be a high-school teacher\nBeing convinced to go after careers that won't make you money. Ive lost count of the number of friends who got degrees that can't be easily monetized and then they have to go back for more schooling.", ">\n\nNo. But there are different paths to success in college. From Community College, part time schedule, online, to full class load on campus. Parents and teens should make an honest assessment of what they can handle at 18. (Even a gap year)", ">\n\nNo one forced me to go to college. Went in very early 2000s.\n\nIt was the best option I had at the time, after working moderately hard in high school. Mostly, grant money paid for classes at a pretty good state university. I only ended up owing a little under 5k and that’s primarily because I had a few majors.\n\nThe other options were the military, trade school, or probably a minimum wage, none of those options were appealing to me, besides I could still do those things and have a 4 year degree. \nBut, I would’ve been terrified with those options only because of no fall back.\nI could’ve opened a business, but I can do that and did that while going to school. \nI’m also in a state where you can get a full ride with a 3.0. I did have a chance to go to a couple of higher end universities, but I know it could put my family and I in a tight situation. \nI think I actually took much more money than what I owed. And, actually loved college. Everyone always talks about their fondness of grade school. Elementary was ok, hated middle school and the first part of high school. It was awful \nWhat I will say about college- if you’re a terrible student or hated school, then you probably shouldn’t go. It only guarantees a job for fields that require extensive training and knowledge of a specific fields. Though, you have an opportunity to make your path to jobs or careers in college, while being there or taking proper steps for the future. \nThere’s your career services, electives, seminars, company recruitment, program recruitment, career development, etc. Some of the programs are so evil they pay your way to school. Oftemtimes, if you do well in college and have a wealth knowledge with impactful majors. You pretty much will have your pick of jobs.", ">\n\nIf student loans/debt wasn't a factor, would you still believe that \"it is cruel and predatory that we as a society pressure 18 year olds to go straight to college after high school\"?", ">\n\nNo not at all. I still don’t like that there is a stigma around those who do not go to college but I think the costs are nonsensical", ">\n\nThen it sounds like you don't actually agree with your own title to begin with? I don't know if they let you edit titles, but it might be good to put an amended title at the top of your main post that more directly opposes predatory loans and debt. And I can't disagree with you on that part. If I were 18 and wanted to take out a $100k loan to start an underwater basket weaving company I would get laughed out of the bank, and rightfully so. I don't have the credit to make such a poor decision with someone else' money. But if I take out $100k to get an underwater basket weaving degree, they'll happily screw me over for life.", ">\n\nI agree with lots of your point, so I’m going to challenge the idea that encouraging education itself is predatory.\n40 years ago, a person could put themselves through an undergraduate degree with a part time job, incurring minimal debt and paying it off quickly afterwards. Even if they never used that degree, they grew, learned things, and weren’t in decades of debt for it. \nThen policies changed around student loan debt and the cost of secondary education skyrocketed. Someone else who’s more educated in the subject can better speak on the nuances of why this occurred, but it fundamentally changed the landscape so that schools jacked up prices to the insane cost we see today. \nThis in my opinion is the part that’s predatory - folks who took advantage of the growing demand for secondary education. An educated society benefits everyone in it, and encouraging 18 year olds to broaden their minds and learn things while their brains are young and plastic is not inherently a bad thing. The predatory part is that we allowed some folks to stand in the way of education because they needed to make loads of money off of it. It didn’t start out that way.", ">\n\nPredatory 🤣🤣🤣", ">\n\nEver heard of predatory loans?", ">\n\nYes, but until today I had never heard of predatory higher education opportunities 🤣🤣🤣", ">\n\nThe loans are what is predatory, haha", ">\n\nIf you are 18 you are still in a study habit from school. Putting a gap year or two, three in between will wash that away and make it more difficult to start studying.\nLearning is easier when you're young, so it makes sense to do it as young as possible.\nHigher education is by all means a great time, where you constantly expand your worldview, knowledge, and pool of acquaintances. At the same time higher education offers plenty of opportunity for extracurricular activities, much more than a job would. I see no reason why getting a boring entry level job would be preferable.", ">\n\nI 100% am b3hind as many people going to college as they can. I believe it is more than just an education. However, 18 is a TERRIBLE time to go. After high school, most people needs a few years to gain a little real world experience and let their brain further developed. You should have experience with alcohol BEFORE college not during. \nYou shouldn't get married before 25 and you shouldn't go to college before 25.", ">\n\nIn my country kids considered fully adult once they turn 18, they can drink, smoke and they have all their rights. However I'd still love to take a little break before college but my family won't let me.", ">\n\nI will say that college is a great idea if you have the means. I personally couldn’t afford it, even with $20k in scholarships and fafsa I couldn’t do it. Some people have to work full time to survive, some have to care for disabled/elderly family members or younger siblings, or might have other obligations. We tell high schoolers that college is the only option, but it’s not feasible for everyone and I think it’s important to present alternative options", ">\n\nI truly believe it depends on said child. Some kids just know. They know what they want and have no problem going after. The rest of us should definitely wait until our frontal lobe is developed. I had zero clue. Figured it out by 30 but it's too late for me right now. ADHD is my downfall personally and money.", ">\n\nWe as a society don't necessarily do that. I'm a teacher and when taught in America, I (and the other teachers at my school) often pushed techs school and learning a trade over college.", ">\n\nYeah, I think pre college level schools should have a system that allows for the students to explore what interests them more. How is a person supposed to know what they want to do for college when they've never truly been given an opportunity to explore their interests? It's purposely done so that colleges can make more money off the people who don't know what they want.", ">\n\nSo I agree with you in people putting off university till a little after HS, though I wouldn't use the word predatory, its more like a false promise. A bachelor's degree is worth next to nothing in the US now because people are treating it as a fail-safe for people. I've met kids who are dumb as rocks in college and professors just pass them then they get out into the real world and take they can't do the actual job they talked for, because well their dumb as rocks... So they just eventually keep losing their job and work at some fast food place with tons of school debt. In this scenario you are correct. However, I do think that some people will benefit from school right-away. Women for one, will find the best job that pays the most for them in an educated field. Now this is where I will get major backlash, I know. But also if you are coming from a HS that doesn't have super good educational system (ei low graduation level, or good overall GPA) then your probably won't do well in college. There are the exceptions to that right, but as a statistic, those kids aren't cut for college just yet. It's better for them to go out into the world and gain experience that way and find a field they are good at/passionate about then go back to school. They will then hopefully be more mentally ready for the hardships that come with higher education", ">\n\nI went my first year, parents paying, and I felt bad because I wasn't ready to settle down and study. So, I went to work. I ended up working in construction and made a very good paycheck for a 18 y/o. I did this for about 10 years, and was a forman/supervisor for a successful company when I went back to school. By this time, I knew what my interests were and I paid my own way. \nI changed my career and my state degree in my early 30s didn't keep me from making a decent, competitive paycheck. And the 10 years of experience managing teams in construction had very translatable skills. I just went from blue to white collar, so just had to watch my salty language. :)\nSo, no, I don't think society pressure was enough to keep me from doing what I wanted. My path was not typical, and I'm doing just fine. (my wife may argue that last point.)", ">\n\nI mean it took me until age 24 to realize I was living my whole life wrong & I still don’t know what I wanna do with my life but I guess everybody is different & everybody develops & learns about themselves in a different time frame but I’d say an 18 year old doesn’t actually know what they want to do for the rest of their life", ">\n\nIt can be predatory. It can also be extremely liberating to be done with school at 22-25 years old. Working full time while going to school is an arduous prospect. Btw I believe slacking off for 2-3 years not accomplishing anything by age 21 is crippling to one’s chances of success.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I struggled a lot between 18-20 but I know that if I were taking that time while I’m school I likely would have failed out and wasted a ton of money", ">\n\nYup. It was culture for me. I went even though I had ZERO business doing so . If I would of taken a year or two and worked a real job. It would of taught me so much . Not only to respect what an education can give you. But also what I want to do with my life . Instead I went to college and just got swept away with life .", ">\n\nNope, it is not the \"pushing\" that is ridiculous/predatory/cruel, but the situation in the USA.\nIn Europe, it just feels like a secondary high-school so people don't feel \"pushed\". Heck, I am glad I started uni at 19 (yes, where I am we do HS until 19) and have not waited. I knew what I wanted since a long time ago and so do most people. And it is cheap. Everything is cheap. The only difference is that you are no longer with the parents. That's all.\nSo again, consider not the \"push\" being wrong, but what the conditions are. Your argument should be against the status of your uni system, not against students starting uni at 18.", ">\n\nYes, but given the status of the uni system, I think people should take more time before rushing into college to make sure they don’t take on a huge financial burden they might not be ready/prepared for", ">\n\nOnce again, in \"normal\" countries it's not that much of an investment. And also, it is parents that mainly pay for the cheap tuition and the living costs.\nMy point is that you should be angry at the fact that the uni system is not \"normal\" where you live, instead that young people are \"pushed\" into learning when they are in their mental prime.", ">\n\nI am not angry, nor am I angry at students going to college. I think given the US college system is bad, we should not push kids into school without them understanding the financial implications of their decision", ">\n\nI've been trying to tell this very thing to anyone that'll listen. Unless you know exactly what you want to do at the ripe old age of 18 and are prepared to put yourself in debt for years to come, don't go to college. Get a job and get some good life skills first. Learn how to be an adult and make adult decisions before you waste your money on an education that you probably won't even use. When you've figured out what is important to you and what you think you might want to do for a living, THEN go and get a degree.", ">\n\nHaha in this economy you need to be done with school by 12 so you can start saving to buy a house at 40. Goals", ">\n\nHi, you raised a lot of points, and I shall try to address as many as possible. You say that 18 yo cannot smoke. That is false in every state as well as every other country where smoking is not banned completely. As to drinking, I agree that it is hypocrisy to bestow upon 18 yo all the responsibilities of adulthood but withhold one of the privileges. I am unsure what the phrase \"barely able to vote\" means, you either can or you cannot.\nMoving on to your main thesis, which seems to me to be this: \"Uni saddles students with debt for many years to come, therefore 18 uo who are immature should not be able to make such decisions.\" In response to that I would firstly ask you to look at the alternatives. It is widely believed that the age of mental maturity is around 25. Would you have them work unqualified minimum-wage jobs for 7 years, and only afterwards go to Uni? Or would you expect parents to support them for an additional 7 years? Either way, they would be throwing away close to a decade of their lives, for the chance of making a better choice. It seems far worse than getting student loans, as they would only start working in their chosen profession at the age of 29/31, when all those who went to uni at 18 will have moved up the corporate ladder and made a significant dent in their student loans. Furthermore, it would be inconsistent to just restrict 18 yo from uni access, as you either treat them as adults or as children, therefore to be logically consistent you would need to restrict their access to driving licences, guns and voting, as all three can be extremely dangerous in the wrong hands.\nI think that the real solution to the problem is to stop giving out student loans to unprofitable degrees. Engineers, like myself, lawyers and doctors generally have far, far fewer problems with student loans than those studying history, literature or psychology. Therefore, to protect students from loans they will be unable to pay back, unprofitable degrees should operate on a pay-for-it-upfront model.", ">\n\nThey used to go off to war or to work on coal mines so college is a walk on the park.", ">\n\nI know this is buried, but if you see this, you need to understand that the lack of \"financial understanding\" that you're seeing here isn't necessarily your fault, nor any teenager's fault. It's your parent's duty and responsibility to guide you through these decisions. \nYou're feeling stressed that your father lost his job and his career might not be the same after this. That's a risk that your parents took on. As a father to a young teenager, my wife and I will take this responsibility on for her as well. We know the risks and we accept that responsibility. That's on us. We have put our name on the line for cars, homes, and most of all our children. \nI can make the same arguments that everyone else here has made, but I'll add that with a degree, you're only matched by 35% of the population. With a Masters degree, that turns into 13% of the population. You are dramatically decreasing your pool of peers with a degree, and you will see significantly less time without a job with a degree (on average).\nI'm a tradesman. My wife is a degreed worker. I made more money early in life and (as we are coming up on our 50th rotation around the sun) she is significantly out-earning me now. I expect to have a more difficult time finding work that pays well as I age as there's always someone who will do what I do for far less than I do it for. That means that I must continue my education to set myself apart from my peers who are young and hungry. It's more difficult to compete with a larger pool of people.", ">\n\nThe problem isn’t going into higher education at 18. In fact it’s easier to do that before you have a job and obligations.\nThe problem is saddling people with generational debt.\nEurope does not have that dilemma for instance.\nBut you do make a good point about trade schools.\nUnfortunately society as a whole sees the whole thing as « beneath them ». Trade school means you couldn’t hack it in normal school, so people don’t go (which is sometimes dumb, because those guys can make a lot of money).", ">\n\n\"The 'push' itself for college isn't cruel/predatory (even if there are loads of predatory practices on the financial side of things).\"\nWhat I mean by this is that the 'push' is generally caused by a swell of well-meaning advice: College was a great investment for lots of Boomers. Many who went straight to work (even many who did quite well for themselves) ended up with a bad back and wishing they had gone to college and gotten a desk job. Many who went straight to college felt like it opened a lot of doors early in their career that compounded well over the long run. On top of these anecdotes, there is plenty of government data out there showing earning projections for different educational-attainment levels that back up the anecdotes. All in all, when someone's experience was \"College worked out great for everyone I can think of!\" then \"I really think you should go to College!\" is usually well-intentioned advice given in-good-faith.\nThe fact that the financials around the post-secondary education industry became so vastly distorted compared to \"the good old days\" that blanket \"Go to college!\" advice becomes increasingly ill-advised is a tragedy but that doesn't make it malicious.", ">\n\nI don’t think the family members encouraging their kids to go to school are cruel, I think the loan companies are", ">\n\nOf course.\nBut it's not like people feel pressure to go to college because they have an innate natural desire to make loan companies happy. The pressures come from the expectations of people close to them - young people want to follow their trusted mentors' best advice.\nAll the predatory stuff is downstream of that pressure - exploiting the situation, yes, but not creating the situation.", ">\n\nI'm confused. Is the argument really that it's unjust to send kids (back) to school at 18, or that they can't drink and smoke?", ">\n\nA better argument would be that 18 year olds have received little to no education on financial literacy. A few hundred thousand in loans sounds like an insane amount but they may have little to no context as to how long that will actually take to pay off. The loans also could not be issued by any bank to an 18 year old for any other reason due to safe lending laws.\nAlso the issue here is the cost of college, not what age they go to college. It’s not really that much better that I wait until 25 so that I understand how badly I’m getting fucked over before doing it", ">\n\nIs it *just\" the cost of college, or is it pressuring 18 year olds to make a decision they may not have full context to understand? Should they go to college? Trade school? Gap year? Internship?\nShould an 18 year old feel rushed to go to college immediately after high school when they're not sure of what they want to do yet? Because if they decide they don't like the college path they've chosen, they'll still have to pay those loans off, but won't have a degree.\nPersonally I was pushed into making a decision ASAP, I had about a month after high school before I was being threatened with getting kicked out, so I chose trade school, didn't like it, wasn't good at it, wasn't a fit, but graduated for the sake of graduating and never worked professionally in that field. I still had to pay 14k in loans, which is no small amount for someone that young.\nIt's not so much the cost, but the value you get from the cost.", ">\n\nNo it's entirely the cost. The downside you described only exists because of the cost. If the cost wasn't there, then whats your downside? Oh no I'm 21 and have decided to take my life in a different direction?", ">\n\nPerhaps the discussion should be about asking an 18 year old to borrow large amounts of money. \nFor much of the developed world, going to college after high school is about studying, not taking on a lifetime debt.", ">\n\nIt’s the same in the USA; OP’s example of $300K of debt is a ridiculous exception to the norm. Average USA student debt at graduation is $29K. He’s off by an order of magnitude.", ">\n\nWell... it sounds like you're actually arguing that it's cruel that we make people pay for their college rather than providing it free like primary/secondary school. That's a very different view. \nThe reason it's encouraged to continue with higher education after high school is exactly because people's brains are less plastic after about age 25. It's not that you can't learn after that, obviously... but it does get progressively more difficult (edit: and therefore, to your apparent actual point, more expensive). \nSo yes, it makes complete sense if we want an educated populace (which we do, because the world is more complicated than it used to be), that people be encouraged to get that education young. It's just going to get harder and slower as you age.", ">\n\nBased on this I’m assuming your a teenager. First, noones getting student loans for 300k. Second, college is smart do it. Alternatively, you can just work at a gas station the rest of your life or try to make it as an influencer.\nMost of my friends that did not go to college and had the same thought process as you are currently having a hard time financially in their 30s.", ">\n\nI am a full time undergrad student but I wish I had been more financially literate and better prepared for the decision I was making prior to enrolling in a four-year university. I also think it is inaccurate and quite absurd to suggest that people without college degrees will become “influencers” and gas station workers when options such as trade and technical schools exist.", ">\n\n\nI wish I had been more financially literate and better prepared for the decision\n\nThis is an argument to support the fact that your education was inadequate prior to college, not an argument against college itself.\nYes, K-12 schools should teach a lot of life skills, including financial literacy, that would benefit all students in their future decision-making. What you'll discover as you get older is that you spent a lot of time in school learning stuff you will never use — time that could have been spent teaching you things that become hard lessons later on. School generally prepares you for more school, not life.", ">\n\nI don’t know what school you went to but I have never had a class in financial literacy in my entire schooling. I do agree that my education prior to university was inadequate, but it is not common to learn financial literacy in school", ">\n\nYes, I agree. It's not generally taught in schools. This is a problem. \nBut my point is, it's the real problem you're pointing to. Despite 13 years of education, you were not properly prepared to make these decisions that everyone knew were coming. The issue is not that there's pressure to continue education; it's that nobody prepares students for the financial decisions they're going to have to make in order to do so.", ">\n\nNo, that is not the real problem, although it is a problem. \nThe real problem is the cost of college in the first place.\nI don't know why no one is addressing this point. Maybe because it's not an actual reply to OP's point. But it's the actual answer. College is way too expensive. That's what is predatory. Higher education for its own sake is valuable. I want to live in a place where people value education, not just being a good worker bee as early as possible. This path should not be only available to the highest echelons of society. \nIt's not okay to tell people of any age that they should do trades because college is too expensive. Working in trades is hell on your body, and the average career length, not to mention career earnings, is much less than those who work in professional fields of any type.\nThe solution is fully funded post-secondary education for any and everyone who wants it.", ">\n\n\nI don't know why no one is addressing this point. Maybe because it's not an actual reply to OP's point.\n\nYes, that's why. This is CMV, so respondents are required to address OP's point and try to change their view. OP's title premise doesn't mention anything about the cost of college or debt, and the view stated in the text originally made assertions about 18 year-olds not having sufficient decision-making capacity.\n\nThe solution is fully funded post-secondary education for any and everyone who wants it.\n\nSure, but that's also an argument against OP's stated view that 18 year-olds should not be encouraged to attend college. \nFully funded post-secondary education is also already the norm in some countries, so depending on how we interpret OP's use of \"society,\" it may be irrelevant.\nBasically, by OP's own subsequent admission, they worded the post poorly.", ">\n\nConsidering OP's premise is that teenagers shouldn't be encouraged to attend college due to exorbitant costs, I think we can safely assume they live in the US.", ">\n\nFunny, bud. I am a full time college student but I do wish I had better understood what I was getting myself into so I could have considered other education options, taken my prereqs at community college, and generally just have been better educated in personal finance so that I would have had better direction", ">\n\nWhat do you consider the downsides of you going to college?\nI didn't go to university (what we call college here) so I have done the alternative that you're suggesting and I'm interested in hearing your opinion", ">\n\nI’m going to post a longer response but I generally think 18 year old are not well equipped to make the most out of their college experience, which does not make it its money’s worth", ">\n\nAn 18yo is a legal adult (I assume you're talking about the USA). They're denied access to a handful of vices, but otherwise have the full suite of legal rights and responsibilities of a 45yo. It seems weird to think that college or even student loans are more demanding or harder to understand than a full-time job and a mortgage.\nThe reason young people are encouraged to go to college is because it is generally a very good financial investment and offers a fairly gentle transition into adult life. It's a fairly low risk option with great potential upsides.", ">\n\nr/USdefaultism ?", ">\n\n\nlives paying back up to 300k in student loans.\n\nJust fix this problem. It doesn't seem like a smart idea of individuals to profit off the improved education of your population.", ">\n\nThe cruel and predatory thing is that universities charge so dang much for tuition. The cost of the issue, not encouraging kids to seek higher education.", ">\n\nIt’s often not the tuition that raises the sticker price of college. Room, Board, and fees are what have skyrocketed.", ">\n\nI think it’s all of the above, but the point stands regardless.", ">\n\n100%. Teenagers need to do the ROI on college. If you’re spending $100k on a degree that will start you at $35k a year, that is a bad investment.", ">\n\nIt's pretty nuts that in this day and age there are some countries so authoritarian that 18 year olds can't drink or smoke. It's also pretty nuts that there are some places where colleges aren't free at the point of entry, given the disastrous effects we know that has on social mobility.\nThe thing is we haven't really worked out what 18 year olds should be doing. They've finished school but because of automation there's not the unskilled labour there was and so for work we need trained and motivated 25 year olds not skilless 18 year olds. As for how we get trained and motivated 25 year olds, it's some combination of further education and apprenticeship and we haven't at all worked out the details yet and even if we did it probably wouldn't take 7 years. And what we've really not worked out at all is the equal opportunities bit where people of all backgrounds can end up with the skills to do the thing they're motivated to do.\nSo that's the medium/long term challenge. But until we sort that out if you can afford to go college is the least worst alternative. It's the closest thing we've got to a clearing house for helping people find the thing that motivates them and getting them on the path go getting skilled up in that field.\nPersonally? I'd bring back national service, minus the military bits. 2 years from 18-20 for teens to do public works in exchange for a pittance and so earn their free college from the state, and in the meantime grow up a bit and learn how to manage a budget and live the other side of the country from mum and dad (and take all the drugs and fuck everybody they meet). Then in exchange for that you get 3 years free tertiary education from 20-23 by which time you've got some idea what you're interested in and you've sown your wild oats and are ready to go to lectures. Tertiary can be vocational or academic according to your interest. And then 23-25 you're shuffled in to some form of master apprenticeship/paid internship programme.", ">\n\nGreat point!", ">\n\nI'd argue it's cruel and predatory that we as a society (if we're talking about the US, or other countries that don't have a more socialized model), charge money for education, period.\nThe only reason this above is a problem, is because we put a financial hurdle on something which we should be encouraging. After all, an older adult has far more things to worry about societally, and our society has not developed in such a way as to be optimally efficient towards self-betterment to the point where we truly enable people to better themselves, as that would require time, money, and resources that we generally impose upon the individual. (IE: It'd be tough for a 30 year old to learn from a college while having to maintain a modest US lifestyle, complete with car, apartment, food, utilities, and the job required to maintain all that.) \nWhen you've given up that lower education is somewhat meaningless, and oftentimes college is where the bulk of potential 'better jobs' come from, its as if you're being charged for future potential... without any guarantee that said future potential is ever actually seen. What if I get into being a solar or wind turbine technician, but some sweeping reactionary policymaking decides we're going back to oil and gas and coal again? What if I spend time learning about EV drivetrains, and then the market crashes and everyone stops making them? What if I get into art degrees and hone my skills, but then an AI script all but takes over any commercial viability my degree had? (Or accounting? Or for CT technician?) \nCollege works as it does because that further education is happening generally before a lot of these things have taken hold, and in ages past, college tuition was far cheaper, making it far easier for someone to potentially be able to pay for all the above and also afford tuition. In some places, State colleges were even free.\nI don't disagree that the way we have our system set up now is bad, but I'd argue its less because of college or higher education itself being a bad thing, and more about the ways in which we've created systems designed to extract wealth from people. Higher education should be a thing we encourage people to get into, we should absolutely want people to be able to access tools that enable them to become things we need for a healthier society. Putting large financial hurdles in front of them should be an obvious sign of unsustainability, and doing things like trying to make those debts stick through bankruptcy should be a clear sign of predatory behavior. \nSo if you're arguing for an easier accessibility to college education, without all the predatory claws of lenders and the greed of private institutions that're already sitting on multi-billion dollar trusts still having tuitions, then I guess I'm not really challenging your view enough. If the argument is that we shouldn't be pushing people into college period, though, then I'd be pushing back that it's our current perversion of higher education to be just another business in the US that's the problem. There's plenty of models in other countries that show we can have far more affordable colleges, or even free colleges to students, that do not require such financial commitment. In those countries, it isn't cruel and predatory, because they don't have the same broken jank that a system like the US one does.", ">\n\nYes yes yes! Not against education I’m against the greed", ">\n\nIs this an American thing I'm too European to understand?", ">\n\nYes. I apologize", ">\n\nNgl, didn't read the post BUT I went straight into college and dropped out my senior year because of burnout (at 19) and if I had waited a couple years that wouldn't have happened. So I agree.", ">\n\nYeah, I’m in my junior year and I’m completely over it. I feel much more supported by my community outside of college and have a true sense of belonging there. I have a career I’m really excited about and I feel that college is putting it on hold. I am probably going to finish my degree but ugh", ">\n\nYeah, I'm gonna finish my degree... Eventually. I need my mind to heal. I just joke and tell people I decided to take my gap year a little late but the fact that I dropped out haunts me everyday. Do your best to keep at it.", ">\n\nWhy should 18-yr olds be allowed to drink & smoke? Those negatively affect one's life, but learning more is beneficial. Sure you have to pay for it but professors don't teach for free.", ">\n\nI definitely shouldn't have gone to college right after high school. I lacked real world social skills, the necessary work ethic, the money management skills, and so much more I needed to succeed. Leaving college and spending a year working during covid really helped me alot with building up these skills. I was definitely a more well rounded person after my break from school\nI would highly recommend that anyone going to college who could use some money and experience get a shitty retail job before they go. It teaches you alot about work ethic, dealing with people and their bullshit, and so much more. It also scares you straight a bit, realizing what life without a degree could be like", ">\n\nThe only cruel part is the outrageous cost of college here in America", ">\n\nSorry, u/someonefr0msomewhere – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:\n\nDirect responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. See the wiki page for more information. \n\nIf you would like to appeal, you must first check if your comment falls into the \"Top level comments that are against rule 1\" list, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. \nPlease note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.", ">\n\nNo one pressured you into anything. I wanted to go to college right after high-school and I did just that. Others in my class didn’t and decided to do other things. Stop projecting how your feel about yourself “failure to accomplish much” onto others.", ">\n\nOkay", ">\n\nWell one big difference is that it isn't illegal to not go to college, it is just what is recommended. Alcohol and those other scenarios are actually illegal", ">\n\nWhy are you focusing on the financial impact and not the true source of the issue? There shouldn't be a significant financial impact to the student.\nContinuing education after high school is undeniably the best time to do so developmentally. A person's brain only becomes less malleable or able to absorb and retain information as they age. \nIf we removed the idea of student debt from the picture would tertiary education be either cruel or predatory? In many countries this is already the case.", ">\n\nWhile I understand the source of the financial impact on the student, there isn’t really anything we can do that will change that in the near future", ">\n\nSure there is, we can lobby our representatives for stronger financial support for students attending tertiary institutions of learning. \nDeflecting from the source of financial impact and placing it on people pressuring 18-year-olds into accruing student debt is defeatism, especially when the stats on median income support tertiary education being a net benefit for those students even factoring in significant accrual of student debt.\nThose people doing the \"cruel and predatory\" pressuring are being rational. It is on median worth it to go to college in America and it's not even close.", ">\n\nMaybe just make college affordable instead of encouraging them to wait until a period where they're unlikely to ever be able to devote their full attention to higher education.", ">\n\nWell when is it that college will be affordable? Never, lmao", ">\n\nThere are countries outside the us where college is affordable though.", ">\n\nFirst off, college is too expensive. Obviously, that is the main concern. It shouldn’t require massive loans for anyone. \nSecondly, as parents who see and are aware of the current higher-education shitshow, it is our responsibility to educate and prepare our kids. I have an 11 year old and she already knows college is unaffordable for us, and that she most likely will need to go to tech school for a while if she chooses that path. My kids are close in age and I try to teach them “team ideas” like they may want to share an apartment, and that’s probably a good idea since they already split chores and space in our home now. I also have a system where if they want something big, they can get a “loan” from me where they do chores to pay me back. If they don’t do them, they get charged a penalty. I clean houses and I’m teaching them how to do that on the side as well (I make about $40/hr). \nNone of this is ideal, but we have to do the best we can.", ">\n\nCollege is a good thing. Drinking and smoking aren't. It's like saying, \"It's cruel to force kids to eat vegetables even though they can't do heroine.\" Yes, college is expensive, but the average college grad makes about a million more dollars on their life than someone who just went to high school.", ">\n\nIt’s better than pointing I gun at them. I had a tendency to do that before cellphones. It always got their attention and they ended up driving much nicer.", ">\n\nWhat about countries that have free access to university?", ">\n\nYou didn't mention which society- there are several countries where you do not need to pay excessive loans for higher education.\nAdditionally, there are many schools in the United States which are more affordable. Many community colleges only cost a few thousand dollars per semester. This is still a substantial amount, but I think 10-20k in loans is far less cruel or predatory than 300 thousand dollars. The majority of public schools are going to be in 40-60k. Additionally, the majority of schools do not require you to pay for all four to six years in advance, it's semester by semester. So even at the more expensive state schools, the 18-year old adult is signing for 5-6k. I think this is a reasonable amount of money to be responsible for at that age.\nI would also argue that to a certain extent, 18 year old adults are mentally capable of understanding and signing contracts. The fact that society does not allow them to drink/smoke/rent a car doesn't have anything to do with their actual mental capabilities.", ">\n\nPapa said education is the only thing where money isn't wasted. Even if you owe $$$k, the critical thinking it leaves you is exponentially worthy if used properly. Critical thinking does not have to stay within the bounds of your profession.", ">\n\nCounterpoint: that only applies in the US.\nIn many other countries in the world where education is free and/or far more accessible it makes perfect sense. \nYour brain is better equipped to learn when you’re young. it’s a way to get into professions that you couldn’t start without studying. And there aren’t other life stresses like kids and careers in the way (usually). Studying young makes perfect sense.", ">\n\nThat is only in a few countries. In Argentina not only you gain the right(not the obligation yet) to vote at 16 you can drink and smoke at 18, you also gain the obligation to vote at 18 (yes, is mandatory to vote, if you dont you have to pay a small fine).\nTo add college is free so its a no brainer to go to college and start your degree.\nAnother reason to do college that fast its because its a bit easier to study if you come directly from high school. The pandemic made it harder for me to study because I lost the routine of going to class and the time spent there.", ">\n\nPersonally If I had taken a year or so off after high school I’m not sure I would’ve gone back to college. I was still in the school/education mindset and it would’ve been hard to get back into it. Even after I graduated with an undergrad degree someone mentioned going back for a graduate degree, and there would jsut be no way.", ">\n\nAll by design. If you wait til you're 30 to move out on your own and start a family, they're losing $$$$ on your mortgage and college housing expenses for those 10 ish years. I know some people stay home for college to save money, but most are moving out at 17/18 and going into debt immediately.\nWe can also talk about how they use the media and propaganda to break up homes.\nIt's all about $$$$", ">\n\nSo? Legalise drinking and smoking at 21. Hell that's legal at 16 in a lot of countries", ">\n\nJesus Christ 18 year olds can go to war and you’re saying it’s cruel to give them an education?", ">\n\nNo that’s really not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying it’s cruel that they have to incur this amount of debt to receive an education", ">\n\nIs it also problematic that we don't let 14 year olds decide to drop out of high school? And it's not like college is in anyway mandatory, it's just the next stage of school after high school. You don't have to go, it's just a very good idea for you to. As for the whole \"think about what they're missing out on\", I would be much more worried about what they're missing out on by not going to college.\nAlso, the comment about 300k debt is just so entirely beside the point. 99.9% of college students don't ever go anywhere near that level of debt, and those that do are usually going to law-school/medical school. Regardless, if we think this is a problem the obvious solution is to make college more affordable, not encourage people to forgo college. I also don't see why this decision is anymore serious than any other sort of decision we allow 18 year olds to make (to get married, to join the military, to start a business/get a job, etc.). I don't see why college is so special.", ">\n\nYou are conflating together two separate concepts. One is going to college at 18 years old, an age that is fairly universal for collegiate studies. The other is going into debt to attend the college of their choosing.\nThe latter is a choice which can certainly have long term poor consequences. Or not. One does not have to attend and fully self-fund a private education at an out-of-state institution. If one's grades and achievement is not sufficient to reduce that cost to something reasonable, then one should look at other opportunities. And that is a life lesson as well.", ">\n\nYes, you are correct. However, given this is how it is in the US, I think that it is probably smart to hold off a bit on immediately going into school", ">\n\nThat should definitely be an option. I remember an engineering lab partner who was in his thirties. He went back to school later in life and he was one of the best students I ever worked with. He had a lot of real work experience and I learned as much from his habits and traits as I did from the class.", ">\n\n\nWe actively encourage kids to place themselves into binding contracts\n\nWhat universities force you to sign \"binding contracts\"? Are you under the impression that they will pursue legal action if you drop out after one semester or something?\n\nof their lives paying back up to 300k in student loans.\n\nThe majority of schools cost a tiny, tiny fraction of this. The only possible way of getting that much debt would be to get multiple/extended degrees from one of the most expensive schools or just blowing money away on dumb stuff. Which 18 years olds can also do. Why should an 18 year old be able to buy a 50k car but not spend 10k on tuition to a top school?\n\nHow is an 18 year old, who is legally barely capable of anything\n\n18 year olds in most countries/states can do just about everything a 50 year old can save for a few small exceptions. They are legally an adult in 99.9% of ways. They can enter into contracts, make large purchases, sign a lease, sign up for car payments, get a mortgage, vote, become a legal guardian etc.\n18 year olds can spend a ton of money on just about anything, and spending it on college is one of the smartest ways to drop 10-30k.", ">\n\nI just want to know where you live that an 18-year-old can't smoke. Isn't the legal age to buy cigarettes (and weed in Colorado) 18?", ">\n\nNope. 21 everywhere", ">\n\nWell I'll be damned. A lot has changed since I was 18, apparently. I mean, it HAS been a minute.\nAs for the question CMV in question - I'm not sure that clarity necessarily comes with age, but it would definitely be nice to have the option to \"start over\" in your 40s when you maybe have a better idea of what rings your bell. But what would I have been doing between 18 and 40? Living at home with my mom? I guess my point is that \"adulthood\" has to start somewhere and for some arbitrary reason we picked 18...", ">\n\nI think your way of thinking is very America centric which fair that’s where you grew up. \nBut college is definitely not that expensive everywhere. And many many people can’t really wait around to be sure of what they wanna do as they have to earn to survive. \nCollege and getting to do what you please is a luxury that many don’t have. \nNot saying you can’t take your time or do something else but don’t think that it’s an issue everyone faces.", ">\n\nYes I am sorry I’m ranting about America", ">\n\nIts cruel and predatory in the sense there are so many pitfall degrees out there. It's not nessesarily predatory on the people telling you to go to college so much as it is on the institutions extracting cash from students who go because they are told to go at every level.\nIt's entirely possible you go into college, get a degree, and just become a debt slave because you entered a degree program that has virtually no employable skills. \nIt's not nessesarily the fault of people who tell you to go and went pre 2008 because there weren't so many pitfall degrees and it wasn't so bad loan wise either.", ">\n\nBecause college benefits them long term, while drugs literally kill them??? \nI do think it is wrong to make people feel bad for NOT going, but to simply encourage them to keep the ball rolling is to hope for the best for them. Though I do think more emphasis should be on encouraging them to simply find their own way to success (whether it be college, trade school, or being a hippie surfer dude living in a van). Happiness SHOULD be how we measure personal success in an ideal society, but we live under the iron fist of capitalism, so money is ALL that matters if you want to survive here, let alone be happy.", ">\n\nYes, yes it is.", ">\n\nWell the problem is that \"pressure\" is in the form of college education being seen as the only secure method of social maintenance, let alone social advancement. \n18 year olds might not understand the specific legalese, but they know pretty dang well that it's some form of post high school education or being relegated to either minimum wage or higher because of hazard pay conditions lifestyle until they \"think better of it.\"\nThat pressure ain't societal, it's economic, parents will stop pushing kids into degree paths when a degree is no longer all but required for any first seen path to a decent standard of living, meaning companies have to stop requiring it for jobs that don't need it, which means that the feds would need to standardize and monopolize job applications to force companies to comply with not requiring bachelor's degrees for jobs that don't need it, because the only way the whiny middle manager butt munchers would ever is with the threat of a prison sentence for hiring discrimination hanging over their head.", ">\n\nHow about we lower the drinking and smoking age instead? People who are 18 are adults who are capable of making adult decisions. That includes where to go to college, what major to choose and how much to spend. It isn't cruel or predatory for 18 year olds to go to college, it's been happening in the US en masse for nearly a century.", ">\n\n\nWe say that this is because their decision making faculties are not yet fully developed so they need to wait.\nSo where is this logic when it applies to college?? \n\nSince their decision making faculties are not fully developed society makes many decisions for them. They decide that they cannot drink or smoke.\nOnly about 1/3rd of young people go to college. For those 1/3rd we decide that college is a good investment.\n\nHow is an 18 year old, who is legally barely capable of anything, understand the true implications of such a decision? \n\nan 18 year old can understand this. you'll rack up, on average 37k in debt and on average make 36k extra per year. (according to cursory google searches).\nThere are predatory schools out there, private for profit schools which produce poor outcomes for unfairly large tuitions. Pressuring a kid to go to a predatory school is obviously predator, but your local state school is almost certainly a good investment for anyone who is academically strong.\nfor the 2/3rds of kids who academics are not strong enough, we generally recommend other paths. Trade schools, 2 year degrees, apprenticeships, etc.", ">\n\nNo one forces you. I took a few years off in between while serving in the military.", ">\n\nfact is, education is very very difficult. it seems easy when you are young because you literally do it every day for 6 hours and you do it baby steps at a time. so if you were to stop for 1 year, most people would not be able to go back to that old grueling life style of education. that's why college must be nonstop right after high school. it's not predatory. nobody is making you go at 18, you can go at 19. most don't do it because their parents know it's bad.", ">\n\nIs your issue with college? \nOr with the cost of college?", ">\n\nMomentum. If you take a break from school, you’ll find it exponentially more difficult to return. You’re being “encouraged”, not forced. Get schooling out of the way, then get on with life….", ">\n\nAnyways, here are some responses I have to some comments I’ve seen a lot of. \n1: college students fresh out of high school are more likely to continue to grind, therefore making completing a degree easier for them than it would be for an older adult with other responsibilities outside of school. \nI completely agree with this point! It is definitely easier to complete school right from high school because it is what is familiar to them. \nI think the problem is that a lot of individuals are “grinding” without an overarching goal, which oftentimes leads to some sort of existential crisis and burnout. “Sophomore blues” don’t exist without a reason. I think it is easier for people to do what they must when they have clear goals in mind. It is already starting to take the average undergrad 5 years to complete a degree due to changing majors and academic leave. People who know what they’re there to do usually make more use out of their experience and have more discipline. But yes, it can definitely be harder to keep up with the pace while juggling more responsibilities.\n2: this is an American problem. \nTrue, and we envy you! It is definitely wise for US citizens looking to go to college to look into doing their schooling abroad these days (even though I understand you might not want us lol). \n3: 300k is inaccurate\nYeah, my bad. I’m definitely in the wrong there. \nSomething I will throw in there, though, is that many college graduates are starting to go to graduate school with the belief that it will bring them financial stability, which oftentimes easily pushes tuition fees past the 100k mark. \n4: the return is better with a college degree\nYes, many studies point to this. However, depending on your career choice, getting started as young as possible may serve you better for future returns. \nSomeone wrote something about how people aren’t going to college to do their “influencing” careers (or something with crypto). This is not what I mean by a career—I am talking about a career path with steady income and employment that is not based on some component of luck in order to make it big. \nWhen it comes to four year colleges, I am also talking about how we don’t inform teens on precautionary measures they can take to reduce their debt—I don’t mean that teens should completely avoid college. Students can take prerequisite courses at community colleges in order to avoid taking these same classes at a higher cost at a college or university. We don’t really help teens find ways they can lessen the blow of loans, and yeah, I do find that kind of cruel. \n5: I think it’s unjust that 18 year olds can go to college but can’t smoke. \nNo, I just find it interesting that we think 18 year olds aren’t responsible enough to make many decisions (those were examples, maybe bad ones) yet it is completely normalized for 18 year olds to take on significant amounts of debt for schooling. When it comes to many other matters, the consensus is that 18 year olds are too naïve or unaware of what they are doing to the point of which we actually bar them from taking various actions to protect them. We tend to think 18 year olds have a very poor gauge of money and its value. \nSomeone wrote a good point that 18 year olds are able to make other financial decisions such as taking out loans on cars, marriage, and applying for credit. My response is that these decisions are, for the most part, actually highly discouraged for 18 year olds to make. People generally think that 18 year olds should avoid taking out loans on things they can’t afford/repay and most 18 year olds who buy cars only buy them outright. I don’t know a single person who thinks getting married before 25 is acceptable, and credit limits are incredibly low for 18 year olds because most of them make little to no income. Therefore, I find it odd that society encourages teens to take on student debt (a loan that, for the most part, the repayment of is uncertain) and view those who do otherwise as “not caring” for their future. Kids in college who are paying money and don’t care about their future are making a far worse choice. \n6: going to college puts you around good influences and gives you plenty of networking opportunities. \nI mean, sure I guess? You can find bad people anywhere, and I wouldn’t call the binge drinking or hazing cultures that take place at colleges influential. In fact, at many of these wealthy institutions kids do a lot more drugs than most people outside of college who can’t afford boatloads of coke. \nAlso, this idea that the “good people are in college” comes from the same sentiment that stigmatizes teens who do not attend college. Also, I think it’s pretty weird that people seem to think that successful networking is only done in college. You can form connections to anyone anywhere, really (also, as someone who is around a lot of people who call making friends “networking”, it seems pretty superficial). \n7: people figure themselves out in college. \nThis is subjective, and there are many less expensive (maybe even free!) ways to develop your sense of identity and goals in life. Speaking for myself, I figured out my direction in life entirely outside of university and college feels like a fever dream. I can’t give an objective response to this point but I don’t agree that adolescents can only “find themselves” in this bubble that is quite detached from real life. \nOverall, what I’m saying is that college is becoming less and less the “right choice” for a lot of people: the degree market is oversaturated, the undergraduate unemployment rate is growing, and job security is rapidly on the decline. I think these reasons make a good case for teens to explore alternative options such as trade schools (job growth out of trade schools are growing rapidly) and rethink whether college is pivotal or not to their personal and financial success. Yeah, I do find it pretty cruel that we throw kids into making these decisions when they are, for the most part, ill-informed. It’s especially messed up when we all kind of know that college tuition in the US is fucking ridiculous and a bachelor’s degree doesn’t hold the same value it used to. \nMy apologies for the typos, I’m writing this from my phone\ntldr: worded post wrong, against loans and not so much school, but hate the stigma around not going to school", ">\n\nYour title suggests that you take issue with the education, but really what you're talking about is debt. Presumably, you don't think that societal pressure to attend college would be bad if it were free, like it is in many countries, right?\nMy point is that some people will get free or heavily subsidized higher education and some people's families can afford to pay for college without taking out loans. If we don't allow the less fortunate people (those who have less money or live in places where college is more expensive) to take out loans to fund their education, then they'd be placed at an even greater disadvantage. The loans are a way of leveling the playing field.\nThat being said, there really does need to be some reform in the way higher education is financed in the US.", ">\n\nI agree. I changed my major twice, graduated and only now realized I want to do a complete different thing", ">\n\nEveryone’s different. For me, i needed to keep momentum or id fall apart", ">\n\nThat’s true. I was so discombobulated—I needed to understand what I was doing there first", ">\n\nI get why, when you have a house to pay for and a job, you dont really have the time. And if you managed to have a kid, even worse. Less people would probably go to college if they didn't go right away. Not to mention, being away from school for 4+ years, you likely forget a lot of things you learned from hs.\nThough I didnt go right away, and I know many who didnt.", ">\n\nMy question is - if not continuing education, then what?\nNo point or great ability to start a career right after high school. If you feel you'll likely end up in college, why start a career that you'll end up having to leave?\nIf not working, parents are footing the bill for their 18 year old to do - what? If they're going to pay for cost of living I would think the preference would be for that living to be WHILE pursuing education, not just teaching them to live off someone else's dime.\nThe gap year for travel and soul searching only works if the 18yr of has saved up for it and/or if parents foot the bill - which again, as a parent myself - I'd much rather pay for college than for a wordwide hostile tour.\nYes, debt isn't great and 18 is young, but I have yet to hear a better alternative", ">\n\nNo it’s not. You have a finite number of good years to be able to have the energy to learn your trade to a high level of competence. Past your early to mid 30’s things get harder because you will likely pick up commitments with your personal life plus work. People need to experience a lot of things quickly- like in about 5 years tops and then commit to learning and executing. That’s kind of 18-23. After that , you’d want to have at least an idea of what you want to do with yourself and commit to it. Keep on putting off a business idea, a trade, a career- whatever it is you like the sound of- and it will eventually be late enough in the day that you will be more likely to give up than to press on. \nThere’s stories about guys who’ve started successful businesses etc in their middle age (Ray Kroc from McDonald’s was about 50 when he made it big) but those are only the exceptions, not the rule.", ">\n\nI honestly believe the inverse. Kids are in school for TOO long. Think about it. You have kids spend 12 years of their lives with free mandatory education then by the time they are working age they are unable to contribute to any specialized workforce without a significant financial contribution and MORE education! In our highly specialized society kids have no wiggle room in regard to the timeframe in which they can pick a skill. I think we need to emphasize specialization much earlier on and allow kids to experiment and gain experience while their education is government sponsored.", ">\n\nThis whole argument falls apart in the removal of student loans. \nWhich of course is predatory. \nBut it's not predatory to expect 18-19-20 year olds to make decisions for themselves.", ">\n\nWell, it’s not as if the student loans are going to be removed, so I don’t exactly see how this critical point can just be taken out of the argument", ">\n\nWhat I mean is the issue you have seems to be more with student loans, and less of the expectation that 18-19-20 year olds to make lasting decisions on their life. \nThe cost of college can be easily mitigated by:\n\n\nScholarships\n\n\nCollege Funds \n\n\nCommunity College/4-Year college hybrid\n\n\nWhere you live, especially since the predatory industry is uniquely American\n\n\nProbably some others I'm neglecting to mention. \n\n\nSo yes, student loans are the critical point to your argument, but that's kind of my point.", ">\n\nCapitalism, the earlier kids go to get higher education, to get a job and pay taxes and such the faster government can get more money", ">\n\nIs this an American issue I’m too European to understand?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\n:(", ">\n\nBut if you weren't in debt up to your eyeballs you would demand fair working conditions and reasonable compensation.", ">\n\n1- please save this and Revisit once you're 30. 2- No, its 100% LOGICAL to keep going and NOT take a break! Id bet that less than 5% of “break year kids“ ended up becoming successful as quickly as their peers that went straight to college! 3- what exactly do u NEED to do on break, that you cant do in college? (😉ahhh nothing but f up right? Lol) 4- kids under 25, ESPECIALLY under 18 need parental guidance--hence why rental car companies dont trust 24yr olds😭)", ">\n\nValid", ">\n\nIf there was some kind of assessment to see if kids are truly ready (emotionally, psychologically, life experiences) for the responsibilities and challenges of college.\nSome kids do a year of travel, but most don't have money for that. I think a \"between high-school & college bootcamp\", that tries to teach kids who didn't have a lot of experience being out on their own would be helpful.", ">\n\nIt is not cruel to encourage young people to better themselves. Whether it is recommending going to college, acquiring life skills, doing a trade, getting a job or any other method really. Bettering yourself while you are young is generally going to lead to better outcomes. People who encourage young people to improve themselves are not being cruel.", ">\n\nThat is not what the post is saying", ">\n\nIt's what the title and original sentiment of op was. It's the most extreme part of the belief, which is why I chose to challenge it.", ">\n\nI believe every 18 year old should do 2 years of community (ameriserve) or military service.", ">\n\nThanks for the insight", ">\n\nCollege is the most traumatic thing that can happen to anyone, and (if I ignore all your apologies) you are right. No young person deserves that amount of pain. My mum, who didn’t go to college, is already telling my 5yo nephew that he should. When he is closer to the age of finishing high school, I will set him straight, instead of brainwashing him from such a young age.", ">\n\nOver 300 comments on this post and you didn't award a single delta? Nobody changed or adjusted your view in any way?", ">\n\nI have spent a lot of time responding but I will read through.", ">\n\nIn Germany it‘s very common to do a gap year where you go abroad and work a little bit. New Zealand is quite popular for this.\nIt helps you to figure stuff out. And the university itself is only like 600€ per year, so that helps too. In that situation it makes sense to start early, as it‘s easiest to continue your study routine.", ">\n\nI'm writing from an Israeli perspective. \nIn Israel, the accepted route is this one: at the age of 18 we go to the army to serve for 2-3 years (sometimes more). after that, we usually go for a long trip, something like 4 months-1 year around the world (usually we go to South America, India, or to Southeast Asia). and only after that, at the age of approximately 22-23, we go to college. \nAs an Israeli I think it makes much more sense.", ">\n\nSo the student loan problem can really be predatory so I’ll concede that but financial ignorance can generally be just as predatory across any age group. Some of the financial statistics out there are pretty wild. That’s not to cheapen this but to point out that generally as a country seemingly not making horrible financial decisions can be difficult for us.\nBiggest point I wanted to dig into was the idea of a student not knowing what they wanted to do. While anecdotal I’ve spoken to thousands of people in a professional capacity and have only met a handful that specifically wanted to do something then strived to accomplish it. For many people career choice was a combination of earning potential, passing course load and the work itself not boring them to death. My point is many older people didn’t suddenly learn what they wanted to do. Many tried a few things and narrowed it down. I studied accounting in college and tried it for 2 years and determined it wasn’t for me lol. I reinvented myself would going to college and do something pretty different now. I’ve met countless people with similar stories from all over the place and most didn’t go back to school. I’ve met plenty of trades people that would absolutely do something else if they could and earn a similar income.", ">\n\nAgreed in that many 18 years olds have no clue what they want to do.\nHowever I'm assuming you're based in America because of the no drinking/smoking thing. But I'm guessing you do it anyway?\nIn some ways uni students are better off than British ones. You get to study loads of subjects and 'choose your major' and generally experiment with loads of classes. In the UK you pick your subject and that's it for the whole 3 years unless you fancy your chances starting again. At least you guys get a bit more choice.\nAnd who forced you to go? You decided to go to uni. You may have felt like you had no other choice but you didn't have to go.", ">\n\nWhile many people suggest the issue lies in not educating the youth about things like loans and adulting in general, I’m still 100% with you that it is cruel to enforce a social norm for all 18 year olds to go to college immediately because they “should”. Even if finances aren’t a big concern, the American Education System, specifically in higher education such as college and grad school have many faults, and it shouldn’t be expected of everyone to partake in that corrupt system, even if they are fully educated and aware of the student loan process.", ">\n\nThe problem is not pushing kids to go to college right after high school. That's the best time in life to get further education. \nThe problem is that, specifically in USA, education stops being free after High School. \nYou're on the right track, that putting college graduates in such immense debt is predatory, but you're barking up the wrong tree. Instead of pushing kids away from college, you should be pushing for free college education.", ">\n\nSociety benefits from having a more educated population...so it is a good thing to push young adults toward more education. At the same time, it is important to note that college isnt for everyone, as you mentioned...but I think that that young people should give it a shot and become a bit more educated. Sure, they could graduate and work at a store and try to work themselves up the corporate ladder...but eventually they will hit a education barrier. Loans allow people to go to school and give it a try. They can pay it back with their higher earnings post graduation once they become what they wanted to...whether that is a Engineer, Programmer, or Management. The ones that struggle are the ones that dont realize that what you study in school matters...a lot. Taking loans and using that money to study something not productive and in demand is a recipe for struggle.", ">\n\nThey need to be a adult at some point.", ">\n\nBeing an adult ≠ going to college", ">\n\n\nSomeone wrote a good point that 18 year olds are able to make other financial decisions such as taking out loans on cars, marriage, and applying for credit. My response is that these decisions are, for the most part, actually highly discouraged for 18 year olds to make. People generally think that 18 year olds should avoid taking out loans on things they can’t afford/repay and most 18 year olds who buy cars only buy them outright. I don’t know a single person who thinks getting married before 25 is acceptable, and credit limits are incredibly low for 18 year olds because most of them make little to no income. Therefore, I find it odd that society encourages teens to take on student debt (a loan that, for the most part, the repayment of is uncertain) and view those who do otherwise as “not caring” for their future. Kids in college who are paying money and don’t care about their future are making a far worse choice.\n\nI have a couple of issues with your response to this argument.\nWhile it is highly discouraged to take out large loans on a car, take out a large line of credit, get married, etc, I think you massively downplay the incredible returns that college has on average. Over the course of a lifetime, college graduates make $900,000 (for men)/$630,000 (for women), than high school graduates. (source) For comparison, the average 4 year debt for a bachelor's degree is about $31,000 (source) . \nTo your point about repayment being uncertain, when you look at the data on the subject, student loan delinquency is a minority case and those who don't complete their degree are more likely to be delinquent. About 8% of those who complete their bachelor's degree are student loan delinquent. (source)\nSo, the reason why we don't encourage the other things that include large loans and encourage college instead is because 1) a car doesn't increase in value and is generally not an investment and marriage can be an investment but most people after high school do not have a stable enough income stream to make it work. Other types of loans that 18 year olds can take out just aren't investments with the same type of returns that college has.", ">\n\nDon't like my opinion? Like these little petty games? Then it seems my time would be more beneficial for me spent somewhere else. Enjoy yourself and your agenda.", ">\n\nWhat?", ">\n\nNot all countries are like the US where post-secondary education costs can be extortionate. In many European countries, post-secondary education is either free-of-charge or the annual cost is low enough to not be a debt trap (e.g. in the Netherlands it's less than 3000 euros annually). \nIn those countries, is it cruel/predatory to encourage a post-secondary path immediately after graduating high school?", ">\n\nYou know what it means to lack a sense of humor, right?", ">\n\nMaybe a year of service, military, or nursing homes, or national parks, etc mandatory at 18.", ">\n\n\nthey can’t drink or smoke\n\nThey should be able to drink; making the limit 21 was a way to reduce underage drinking in high schools. Underage drinking happens in college too, since the limit is 21, but that's OK because 18-year-olds drinking isn't actually a problem. It's high schoolers shouldn't be drinking. As for smoking, it's a similar idea here: don't let high schoolers smoke, and this will cause fewer people to be smokers later in life. You don't magically gain the ability of judgment when you're 21; the government just couldn't justify raising the age any higher without just making tobacco illegal. And it's working; a lot fewer people smoke now than when I was a kid.\n\nThey are barely able to vote and don’t gain too many legal privileges until they are actually 21 years old.\n\nThat's not true. The only one that's actually relevant here in terms of legal \"privileges\" is the ability to buy alcohol. The ability to buy tobacco is stupid and nobody should be doing it in the first place, so who cares what the age limit is? 18-year-olds are legal adults: they can live on their own and make their own decisions, they are treated as adults in contract law, sexual relations, and criminal law, they can join the armed forces, etc. It's completely reasonable for an 18-year-old to enter into a long-term loan.\nWhat's not reasonable is for college to cost that much to the student. College itself is very good and it's definitely the correct place for 18-year-olds to go after high school. But costs are simply ridiculous. All public college should be completely free and high-quality. There should be a nationwide system of public universities with competitive admissions -- you know, like basically every other country. Saddling people with lifelong debts is basically unconscionable, but it's not like raising the age at which you do this would help really anyone at all (unless it's for something like a mandatory year or two of service before college, where \"service\" doesn't have to be military necessarily)." ]

[ "There's nothing inherently wrong with continuing higher education after high school. It's arguably the best time to do so before you have other financial or social responsibilities that would prevent you from being able to dedicate yourself to it.\nThe problem is that everything in our society costs too much. In the past, you could pay your own way through college on a part time job. Hell, you could even buy a car and a house and raise a family on an entry-level wage. The fact that college requires crippling debt is a symptom of an economic failure in society toward the working class, not an inherent issue with a college education. Even factoring that into account, it's still usually better to go to college.", ">\n\nThe average debt at graduation is $29K. Basically a car loan in return for 30-50 years of career benefits, including higher pay, lower chance of unemployment, and preferential hiring.", ">\n\nWhere are you getting that statistic from? Just the housing and meals in my area for a college student is over 12 grand a year, and that doesn't include any tuition.", ">\n\nTo be fair housing and meals is an expense you'd have anywhere if you move away from parents", ">\n\nSure, but if you move out of your parents house to work full time, vs putting it into high interest debt or chipping away at a part time job is a big difference.\nI just calculated in state and out of state tuition for the school I went to, and it puts the rough estimate of yearly costs at 26k and 48k, respectively, for tuition, room and board.\nIt's a state school.", ">\n\nStaying in state is a huge cost savings for sure.", ">\n\nYup, still about a six figure debt if you don't work or get scholarships though, cost of college is insane. I went through the military, and it's sad that it's the only cheap way for decent schools.", ">\n\nMy state school was a bit cheaper although not by much - prob about 22k/yr for tuition and board. Then there were a couple small scholarships was able to find for $500-$3k each.\nI think that price for college is about the max that it's \"worth\". Otherwise getting into over six figure debt isnt a great way to start. Not to mention all of the people who find out they don't even want to use their degree.", ">\n\nYup. I got an engineering degree out of it, but for anything that's not guaranteeing a job of 80+ out of school definitely needs to be brought down on the cost of tuition", ">\n\nIsn't the real issue here the limited understanding of the impact of large financial decisions at 18 rather than anything about college? If a kid comes from a wealthy family that will pay their way, why shouldn't they consider college? If our society subsidized college making it relatively \"free,\" why shouldn't they consider college? The basic idea is that there are other considerations and solutions rather than focusing on people's age.", ">\n\nYou could argue that even if college were free it might not be the right path for everybody, but I suppose one could drop out in that case. Still, I think people should be able to make these kinds of decisions for themselves without feeling social or familial pressure one way or the other.", ">\n\nThe opportunity cost for college is at its lowest point right out of high school. That is the main reason to go then.", ">\n\nYep - if you’re going to go at all, that time immediately after high school is when your remuneration at any job will be at its lowest point, so you’re best applying yourself then. Also, you’re the most-likely to have the least responsibilities/obligations at this time (kids, mortgage, marriage) than any other time in your life.", ">\n\nIt's also when your brain is the freshest. It's just gonna get more and more sluggish after age 20.", ">\n\nYep - your 20s are when you should be applying yourself to learning as much as possible (and that doesn’t only mean in college - lots of ways to learn things). And in your 30s mastering a craft.", ">\n\nYes, very anti-US. I envy you guys", ">\n\n\n\nCollege is optional. Nobody has to go at all. Anyone who chooses to go, should be smart enough to research their choices and the implications of student loans. \n\n\nGap years are so common that most colleges allow incoming students to defer enrollment their first year. \n\n\nA $300k price tag in the US is for private colleges. State college average cost for 4 years is $125k. In some states like NY if your family makes under $125/year tuition is free. Community college is far less at $5k a year. And all of this depends on your income level and how much financial aid you receive. This is all information that is publicly available. If you choose to attend a private college you can’t afford, see my first point.", ">\n\n\nCollege is optional. Nobody has to go at all. Anyone who chooses to go, should be smart enough to research their choices and the implications of student loans. \n\nIt is getting a lot better and things are swinging back to where trades arent being discouraged, but there was a time period where it was college or bust and that was the message that was pushed hard when I was in high school", ">\n\nSame here. But trade schools were designed to keep low income people out of colleges. Have you ever seen a rich person digging ditches? Most of the options seem male-oriented and you have to be in good shape. And dentists and docs can't be made in trade-school", ">\n\nI'll agree they are male oriented, but you don't have to be in shape to be an electrician, plumber, welder, etc", ">\n\nWhen I was in high school (class of 2017), we had military recruiters - quite regularly; they'd set up a booth in the cafeteria at lunch and give out little prizes if you could do 10 burpees or whatever - but no college recruitment, ever. Just to clarify, would you say the same reasoning applies to pressuring them into any sort of binding decision like that?\nThat aside, I would point out a few factual considerations. I don't know if they'll be decisive, but on the chance that they could be:\n\nTypical debt on graduation, for those who have any, is about $30k; $300k would be more like the sticker price (for four years) of an expensive private school.\nChanging their mind about career doesn't necessarily mean more time in college; most majors are applicable to many professions, unless they want to go into a few licensed fields, and changing majors in the first two years often has minimal penalty anyway.", ">\n\nPrecisely. The idea that college is job training is simply wrong. Only a few majors directly lead to jobs; nursing, engineering, and architecture being the ones that come to mind. The rest are all academic disciplines; math, English, literature, history, government, political science, chemistry, physics, biology, psychology, sociology, philosophy, and so on. None of those are direct-to-job majors.\nAnd all majors take essentially the same classes the first 2-3 years. You only really have one year of the four that’s dedicated to your area of study. And about a half year of electives which, depending on what’s chosen, may or may not have anything to do with your major directly.", ">\n\nYour main gripe appears to be that there is a lack of maturity and responsibility among 18-year-olds, and that this prevents them from being able to make decisions regarding college/uni.\nIm not American so i don’t know how exactly the voting age works - but you seem to equate seriousness of the supposed disenfranchisement and legal disadvantages with not being able to drink or smoke so I’ll view them as not very limiting. That notwithstanding, these supposed legal limitations can be set independently of their ability to make decisions, so it’s not fair to assert that they don’t have the ability to judge the implications of going to uni based on such rules. \nYou suggest that it’s flippant to go to college at the age of 18 as one wouldn’t know what they want to do with their lives - which I view as totally illogical because that is where you will go to figure yourself out, most people I know who went to college did not know where they would end up but found their career, passion, etc while there. \nYou also point at this American debt issue, again I can’t make in-depth judgements about it, but these days a college degree is pretty much required for a well paying job. As someone else pointed out, the return on investment is positive so while yeah, the debt is ludicrous, a college degree is better overall. \nThe age of eighteen is the prime time to go to college/ uni imo, your ability to learn does start dropping off in your mid-to-late 20s. Your college years aren’t for making concrete decisions, that’s for later in your life. If the ages of 18 to 22 or beyond are best used learning and exploring and after 25 is when you temper down and mature, then youd ought go to college right out of HS.", ">\n\nDoes this just have to do with high tuition cost? In certain countries, college education is very cheap. You think it is fine in these countries for 18 year olds to go straight into college?", ">\n\nAlmost nobody is taking on $300k worth of loans. \nAs for \"pressure\" the reality is that a college education affords you significant upward economic mobility if you come from meager means, and is critical to remain financially stable if you come from a financially stable family.\nFurther, there are important skills you learn in college that you don't learn in high school. Statistical literacy. Formal/professional writing. Critical thinking. Ability to read technical reports and understand what is being discussed. These skills are all equally taught no matter what your major is, and all are important in most modern careers.\nFurther, college serves as a community for building a professional network. In addition to the network of people you meet in your classes and day yo day life, you also have access to university-organized job fairs where you can talk directly to industry recruiters. \nFinally, regardless of your major, a college degree can be a critical stepping stone towards professional careers such as medicine, law, business, etc., and in fact those diverse major backgrounds can be a boon for applicants to these sorts of programs.\nSo, college is actually a good thing and it is not necessarily a problem that an 18 year old doesn't know precisely what they want to do with their lives.\nThe alternative is also just not as good. Let's say you take 5 years off to work menial jobs before deciding to go to college to pursue a career you love. Now your study skills, reading skills, writing skills, etc are unpracticed for 5 years. You're older and may have other responsibilities in your life that will interfere with your studies (especially kids!). And you're likely to have less time to actually work in your chosen career to pay off those loans. So, you get less out of it and you're less prepared for it. Is that a better solution? I don't think so.", ">\n\nFirst, you're wrong that nobody is taking $300k out in loans. It may be a shocker, but there are people who decide not to go to in-state public schools...and when you do this your tuition immediately doubles ... average cost of college is $35k a year, and most students get their degree in 5+ years. That's on average $175k. Choosing to go to top tier school will be more like $65k/year which puts you in the $325k range.\nDo most parents pay for some of this? Do most get some sort of financial aid? Do most people pay for at least some college upfront? Yes of course. But not all.", ">\n\n\nFirst, you're wrong that nobody is taking $300k out in loans. It may be a shocker, but there are people who decide not to go to in-state public schools...and when you do this your tuition immediately doubles ... average cost of college is $35k a year, and most students get their degree in 5+ years. That's on average $175k.\n\nIt's possible to accrue this type of debt if you go to an out-of-state private school, but that just means most people probably shouldn't do that.\n\nChoosing to go to top tier school will be more like $65k/year which puts you in the $325k range.\n\nContrary to common belief, Ivys are extremely generous with low-income students. They charge rich kids the full sticker price, but the price for low-income students is very low (Harvard advertises that students from families who make less than $75,000 don't pay anything to attend).", ">\n\n\nIt's possible to accrue this type of debt if you go to an out-of-state private school, but that just means most people probably shouldn't do that.\n\nI mean that's really the OP's point - 17/18 YO are not typically equipped to make a sound financial decision here.", ">\n\nGiven that college education is the best vehicle for social mobility (and this has been backed up a ton in the literature) it seems to me that saying “reconsider going to college because you are too ignorant to make a good financial decision right now” is throwing the baby out with the bath water. The proper intervention is to do a better job educating students on their options.", ">\n\nI felt this way for a while, but the success rate for post-secondary education is fairly decent. I've also heard multiple arguments that many younger people have an easier time with a full-time course load than older people do. In my own experience, coming back to college at age 26 was better for me mentally, but harder financially. I'm 33, and still haven't completed a degree because my financial and mental health problems push me to take extended breaks while I save money and regroup internally. Anecdotally, many young students are used to full-time education, because it's all they've ever known. It's easier for many to just stay in the grind and knock it out before moving on to the next stage in life.\nPersonally, I think the problem isn't that we push kids in too young, it's the way we handle tuition. The US does alright overall, but many countries handle school finances and culture differently, and have better overall outcomes for students.\nLastly, it's worth a nod to your argument in that high school students in the US aren't often made aware of trade schools and other post-secondary education options. Maybe we would see success rates rise if students with talents outside of traditional education were encouraged to pursue those, rather than pushing them into the same system as \"everyone else.\"", ">\n\nPeople CHOOSE to go to expensive schools. My entire college education including room and board for a B.S. in a stem field cost less than 40k.", ">\n\nSmart. You can get an engineering degree at a state school for under $40k.", ">\n\n\nHow is an 18 year old, who is legally barely capable of anything, understand the true implications of such a decision?\n\nMost aren’t spending $300k. You’re off by an order of magnitude. The current average isn’t even over $30k. \nEven at $30k debt that’s an entirely reasonable amount of money to spend to get a $900k lifetime return. \nWhere’s the issue? Spend some now earn more over your lifetime.", ">\n\n\nThere are numerous studies that show that only a small percent of degrees are actually profitable. \n\nCitation needed.\nThe median high-school-only full-time income is well under the 25th percentile bachelor's-or-higher income, so a large majority of four-year graduates out-earn most high-school-only graduates.", ">\n\nWhich means... 84% make less. That's the opposite of your point. Most college grads out-earn most high school grads, like I said.\nFor that matter, the first heading on your first source's full report is \"Earnings Generally Increase\nwith More Education\". And take a look at Fig. 5 - bearing in mind that the median lifetime income with a high school diploma is $1.6M (Fig. 2), every single category of majors out-earns the median high school graduate (the lowest being Education, with a median of $2M). Your source conclusively and consistently supports my claim.\nNo one is denying that exceptions exist.", ">\n\n\nYes but my point was not all degrees are profitble not that collage doesnt give you a chance to make more money. \n\nYou specifically said only a small percentage of degrees are profitable. \"A small percentage\" is not \"not all\". As I said, no one denies that exceptions exist.", ">\n\nIn that case, sure. I don't think it's really disputed that, say, social work or education is poorly paid given the degree requirement, and not a great investment financially.", ">\n\nCruel and predatory? Feels like you just chose 2 random negative words because you didn't want to say 'bad' twice.\nAlso your issue doesn't seem to be with studying, but with getting tuition. Maybe you should argue for free public education instead.", ">\n\n\nFeels like you just chose 2 random negative words because you didn't want to say 'bad' twice.\n\nThat's the mark of an educated man.", ">\n\nThat's the mark of someone wanna trigger emotional response form reader. It's a\nstretch to use those words in this post", ">\n\n\nSo where is this logic when it applies to college?? We actively encourage kids to place themselves into binding contracts where they may have to spend a decent chunk (or the rest) of their lives paying back up to 300k in student loans.\n\nNope. They got ONE loan for ONE semester. Attended classes for 4 months while talking to teachers and peers. And then decided that it still made sense and took out ANOTHER loan for another semester. And so on…. a lot more times. At any point they could realize it was a mistake, if they decided that, and leave.\nAnd the average debt at graduation, is $29K.", ">\n\nFair.", ">\n\n\nbarely able to vote\n\nYou're either old enough or not. And at 18, you can vote. As a matter of fact, booze, cigarettes and running for President of the US are pretty much the only things you can't do. You are considered an adult in almost every other way. Stop infantilizing 18 year olds and treating them all like incompetent idiots.", ">\n\nIdk I was a pretty incompetent idiot (nice word choice) at 18", ">\n\nYou shouldn't generalize others from self.", ">\n\nYou definitely shouldn't...but 18 year olds are generally morons. Not their fault, but generally true.", ">\n\nI was a \"non-traditional\" student, so you're preaching to the choir. But I can think of a few reasons why social pressure to go straight to college makes sense:\n\nKeep the momentum going! It's very hard to go to the \"real world\" and then back to school. You get caught up in life: rent, bills, freedom, etc. Not everyone has the luxury of staying with their parents, and the USA does not have the social support networks in place to enable gap-year folks like some other countries.\nReturn on investment! Kickstarting your career early can provide some crazy high return on investment. Both literally, in the form of early investing in stocks, as well as more figuratively in the form of higher career trajectory and fluidity.\nSocietal impact! On a macro scale, what we want is productive and contributing members of society. Pushing folks into school might not be the best for an individual, but it's very likely best for society as a whole.\n\nAnd I can think of a direct counterpoint to your assertion, as well. It's no more predatory than the fact that an 18 year old can open a credit card, sign a mortgage, get married, take out a car loan, sign up for life insurance, etc. All those things can be tools, and can also be predatory when abused by assholes looking to profit. And the people getting preyed on really run the whole gamut of society - there are 50 year olds who are signing objectively bad loans, racking up tens of thousands in credit card debt and signing mortgages way outside their means. So unfortunately I don't think this particular industry is any worse than all the others in which an individual can shoot themselves in the foot by not thinking critically about their choices.", ">\n\nFortunately American colleges treat students like children in lots of ways, from making sure they are housed to keeping attendance in class. So that more or less works out OK.", ">\n\nHow does predatory fit in here? Colleges do advertise, but the people doing most of the advocating don't stand to gain anything from the bad advice.\nIs it the government providing loans that's predatory? Leaving aside someone that's politically left having to state the government is predatory; I assume just like with private companies, the terms of the loan are straight forward; They tell you exactly what the loan will cost if you only make minimum payments. This actually seems less predatory than companies selling products where they omit problems or important context with the product (eg - iRobot doesn't clearly tell you the various sensor issues their vacuums have).\nSo who is the predator here?", ">\n\nI pressured both my kids NOT to straight after school. They ignored me and went anyway.", ">\n\nAs opposed to what? Travel the world? Sit around playing FFXI? “Cultivate a hobby”?\nWith whose money? Living where? Will your parents just pay for you to travel the world for the “experience”? Will they just let you live with them while you get your Mythic Weapon to ilvl 119? The answer is probably no. Paying either part of or all your tuition is one more kindness your parents are doing for you, you can’t expect them to pay for you to lounge around. Especially American families, where it’s all about one self rather than the family unit. You don’t know how many threads I’ve read where people tell others to just ditch their parents and let them “rot in a nursing home”. Forget that they spent 18+ years of their life taking care of you. \nIf your answer is “I’ll work”, then what work? Delivering pizza? Because you’ll be hard pressed to find a good job at 18 with no degree. \nTherefore, what you’re suggesting is simply infeasible for most people.", ">\n\nThe problem here is not sending young adults to college. That's a good idea because both their school knowledge and learning methods are still there.\nThe problem is a system where going to college costs 300k.", ">\n\nBut it doesn’t. It would only cost that if you paid nothing, went to the most-expensive private school you could find, and did it all with debt while also funding your living expenses with debt too.\nThe average debt at graduation is only $29K. So, clearly, few have that type of debt. Certainly vanishingly-few who are getting bachelors degrees. Most people who get into six-figure debt from school end up lawyers and physicians.", ">\n\nOP: Going to college is not close to being cruel and predatory. Setting up someone for failure is.\nBeing around an scholastic environment with people who are seeking to improve their lives and education is legitimately the opposite of what you have said. \nGuess what else you can take at college. Trade school programs, certifications, and the degree to ensure your knowledge and success. \nMost people can even get financial aid for help! You don't need to go to a Ivy league school. Now adays most employers don't give a fuck. You just have to be educated and able to do the job.\nGuess what? Humans need to learn and need to face resistance in the mind and body to improve and strengthen. Heavy weight and resistance will force the body to build muscle or strength. Learning will force the mind to expand it's capabilities.\nA young person, especially someone around 18 is vulnerable to negative influence. They really should be around positive people and a positive environment. There are many vices that will ruin a life, and trust me on this. The worst influencers are seriously not trying to go to college and improve their life.", ">\n\n\nMost people can even get financial aid for help! You don't need to go to an Ivy league school. Now adays most employers don't give a fuck.\n\nCorrection: nobody gives a fuck. Other than pretentious dummies or people whose goal was to skate through life on the “good old boy’s network” of grads from their alma mater.", ">\n\nAlot of people in this thread are campaigning hard for thr benefits of college. And I 100% agree, the stats don't lie. But it's more nuanced than that. As an elementary school kid I always heard from my teachers \"you need to go to college to be successful\" and that's not inherently true. What is not often talked about is choice of major, which imo is an even more important choice than choosing whether to go to college or not. \nAlot of 18 year Olds don't know what they want to do, and I saw many MANY people get degrees in stuff that hasn't helped them at all. Or change degrees after wasting alot of time and money on their first degree choice. What I'm trying to say is that engineering degree and a theater degree are 2 different things. I could graduate with an art degree tomorrow and it's no guerentee I make 6 figures ever. Granted, I'm sure there are art majors making alot of money, but the job field isn't exactly as fruitful as other majors. \nEven things like teachers. My brother Is a teacher and my other brother with a trade job makes twice as much as him without needing a degree", ">\n\nA lot of people in this thread probably went to college.", ">\n\nI used to have the same thought about drinking and smoking, but what benefit does either have more than college?\nI don't think the problem is that they go to college, I think the problem is they go to college wanting a degree in something that they were told in high school would make them 6 figures starting salary. So they jump in for the money and never figure out what their passion is which leads to a college degree that becomes useless when they realize they can't get a job.", ">\n\nThe way I approached college was to start taking core/required classes (English, math, history, government, etc) while choosing electives that were subjects that looked interesting but I knew nothing/little about. Doing that helped me find the major I wanted. And, while I never worked in that field after graduating, it held me in good stead and I was successful in the field I ended up wanting to work in.", ">\n\nThat is a smart approach and often it seems college is almost set up for people to take that route. I think some just don't take the time to look into different electives to find what they enjoy.", ">\n\nIn 1969 when I first went to uni there was any government loans, the tuition was $200 a semester with no limitations on credit hours taken, then gov loans came in and tuitions sky rocketed and have continued to do so ever since along with restrictions on how many subjects you take. I agree this was a predatory act done intentionally so schools could make money, kind of a sideways attempt at government sponsored education.", ">\n\nI think trade schools don't get mentioned often enough as legit beginning on a decent career path.", ">\n\nMost kids see no glory in such blue-collar work, feel they’d have “settled” and be looked down upon, and also see four years where they can continue hanging out with their friends while not working, versus taking a full-time job and “getting started”. Not hard to imagine they prefer the easy “glory” path to the “get busy and become a taxpaying member of society” path.", ">\n\nBecause if they don't go immediately they likely will never go. \nWhich for many wouldn't be a bad thing.", ">\n\nIn many of Asian and European countries, college education is funded by the governments and is not as atrocious as here in the US. Arguably, continuing education whilst young has lots of benefits because it's well understood that learning declines as we age.", ">\n\nI sure wish I had more time to figure out what I wanted to do. Tuition is relatively cheap where I am and my parents paid for it - but I studied something I have no passion for, so my outlook is not great right now. I wish I had the funds to go back and get another degree but it would mean going in debt and being financially fucked for who knows how long. If I took a few extra years to work and have a better idea of what I wanted to study I probably would've made a better decision and been in a better place now? who knows", ">\n\nThis!!", ">\n\nSee if your school has a Co-op program. You work 6 months and go to school for 6 months.", ">\n\nThat’s smart", ">\n\nI propose your issue isn't with college itself, but the government and culture surrounding college.\nFor example, tuition for college was massively subsidized before Nixon made sweeping cuts to it, in order to silence political dissenters from colleges.\nCollege education does provide valuable skills. It's predatory nature comes from legalized price gouging of tuition and needed materials. On top of this, the government profits on the loans it gives out for school. Not only are you required to pay taxes for life to fund education, but you're required to pay extra in the form of student loans+interest.\nColleges are aware of this and do profit on it. The worst of it comes in the form of politicians profiting on these loans (by owning private lending businesses, voting to increase their wages using taxes, requiring military service to join without massive debt then profiting on military action).\nIt's not the college doing this. It is a design of a proto-fascist state attempting to squeeze all value out of its lower classes. \nYou are becoming more aware of it and that's good.", ">\n\nPretty much an American thing. Very common for kids to take a year or two off elsewhere. Do what you wanna do and find the person you want to be.", ">\n\nI'd have to do research, but the only difference I'd make is to say either, \"It has become cruel and predatory,\" or, \"It has always been cruel and predatory.\" Tuition has soared, and predatory loans have replaced grants for poor students, but I'm skeptical there was ever a time college delivered all it promised. I think poor people saw college as a thing rich people did, so they thought if they did it they could get rich too, or at least less poor, but when you graduate you find the rich kids were just legitimizing a position that was always waiting for them, and you're still gonna have to strive and struggle.", ">\n\nDefinitely the latter", ">\n\n300k in loans if that 18 year old gets a PHD.\nMost bachelors are hella affordable. I paid for mine by working as a chinese food delivery driver part time, class of 2016.", ">\n\nI agree when it comes to the loans, total garbage.", ">\n\nParticularly when those 18 year olds are having to go into the kind of debt people who are buying houses go into. It’s not a reasonable expectation", ">\n\nI believe the pressure is actually a mix of permanent \"branding\" of a concept and a false illusion to reality.\n\"Going to college will get you a better paying job\"\nI know many and I'm sure many of you know folks who have these fancy papers going \"i r koolage stewdent\" and the person is working some crap job/temp till they find something that lets them use said piece of paper.\nA mix of schools and businesses (both work and loan company's) have either purposely or unpurposely set a form of gate keeping for \"better jobs\" and the only way to do said learning is to pay X$. Don't got the money? here sign this paper work putting you into heavy if not life long debt to learn this thing. No no ignore folks who have the degrees who even 10/20/30 years later are still paying it off cause the terms are not fair or in your favor. But you don't got a choice in lenders short of government aid but you better be poor or getting lots of scholarships. \nIt is beyond predatory and the fact the government is currently going \"these debts have cause decades of harm\" is proof they are really fucking stupid. Sadly the folks fighting it so hard is another unrelated topic. \nTo end this tho I share the same view on kids/\"new\" adults are forced into a position they shouldn't be due to a social structure that has proven detrimental for not just the individual but to the country as a whole.", ">\n\nI think you're conflating the decision of college with the decision of taking out student loans.\nI agree that an 18 year old should not be able to take out so much in student loans for a degree that everyone knew at the time wouldn't pay for itself. But I disagree that college is inappropriate for 18 year olds. 18 is a formative time in a person's life and college can be a good way to expose a person to many different perspectives and experiences that they otherwise wouldn't have an opportunity to experience.", ">\n\nThe problem isn't getting an education. The problem is;\n\nbeing convinced to go to overpriced universities which won't help you in the long run. Don't go somewhere for 100k to get a degree to be a high-school teacher\nBeing convinced to go after careers that won't make you money. Ive lost count of the number of friends who got degrees that can't be easily monetized and then they have to go back for more schooling.", ">\n\nNo. But there are different paths to success in college. From Community College, part time schedule, online, to full class load on campus. Parents and teens should make an honest assessment of what they can handle at 18. (Even a gap year)", ">\n\nNo one forced me to go to college. Went in very early 2000s.\n\nIt was the best option I had at the time, after working moderately hard in high school. Mostly, grant money paid for classes at a pretty good state university. I only ended up owing a little under 5k and that’s primarily because I had a few majors.\n\nThe other options were the military, trade school, or probably a minimum wage, none of those options were appealing to me, besides I could still do those things and have a 4 year degree. \nBut, I would’ve been terrified with those options only because of no fall back.\nI could’ve opened a business, but I can do that and did that while going to school. \nI’m also in a state where you can get a full ride with a 3.0. I did have a chance to go to a couple of higher end universities, but I know it could put my family and I in a tight situation. \nI think I actually took much more money than what I owed. And, actually loved college. Everyone always talks about their fondness of grade school. Elementary was ok, hated middle school and the first part of high school. It was awful \nWhat I will say about college- if you’re a terrible student or hated school, then you probably shouldn’t go. It only guarantees a job for fields that require extensive training and knowledge of a specific fields. Though, you have an opportunity to make your path to jobs or careers in college, while being there or taking proper steps for the future. \nThere’s your career services, electives, seminars, company recruitment, program recruitment, career development, etc. Some of the programs are so evil they pay your way to school. Oftemtimes, if you do well in college and have a wealth knowledge with impactful majors. You pretty much will have your pick of jobs.", ">\n\nIf student loans/debt wasn't a factor, would you still believe that \"it is cruel and predatory that we as a society pressure 18 year olds to go straight to college after high school\"?", ">\n\nNo not at all. I still don’t like that there is a stigma around those who do not go to college but I think the costs are nonsensical", ">\n\nThen it sounds like you don't actually agree with your own title to begin with? I don't know if they let you edit titles, but it might be good to put an amended title at the top of your main post that more directly opposes predatory loans and debt. And I can't disagree with you on that part. If I were 18 and wanted to take out a $100k loan to start an underwater basket weaving company I would get laughed out of the bank, and rightfully so. I don't have the credit to make such a poor decision with someone else' money. But if I take out $100k to get an underwater basket weaving degree, they'll happily screw me over for life.", ">\n\nI agree with lots of your point, so I’m going to challenge the idea that encouraging education itself is predatory.\n40 years ago, a person could put themselves through an undergraduate degree with a part time job, incurring minimal debt and paying it off quickly afterwards. Even if they never used that degree, they grew, learned things, and weren’t in decades of debt for it. \nThen policies changed around student loan debt and the cost of secondary education skyrocketed. Someone else who’s more educated in the subject can better speak on the nuances of why this occurred, but it fundamentally changed the landscape so that schools jacked up prices to the insane cost we see today. \nThis in my opinion is the part that’s predatory - folks who took advantage of the growing demand for secondary education. An educated society benefits everyone in it, and encouraging 18 year olds to broaden their minds and learn things while their brains are young and plastic is not inherently a bad thing. The predatory part is that we allowed some folks to stand in the way of education because they needed to make loads of money off of it. It didn’t start out that way.", ">\n\nPredatory 🤣🤣🤣", ">\n\nEver heard of predatory loans?", ">\n\nYes, but until today I had never heard of predatory higher education opportunities 🤣🤣🤣", ">\n\nThe loans are what is predatory, haha", ">\n\nIf you are 18 you are still in a study habit from school. Putting a gap year or two, three in between will wash that away and make it more difficult to start studying.\nLearning is easier when you're young, so it makes sense to do it as young as possible.\nHigher education is by all means a great time, where you constantly expand your worldview, knowledge, and pool of acquaintances. At the same time higher education offers plenty of opportunity for extracurricular activities, much more than a job would. I see no reason why getting a boring entry level job would be preferable.", ">\n\nI 100% am b3hind as many people going to college as they can. I believe it is more than just an education. However, 18 is a TERRIBLE time to go. After high school, most people needs a few years to gain a little real world experience and let their brain further developed. You should have experience with alcohol BEFORE college not during. \nYou shouldn't get married before 25 and you shouldn't go to college before 25.", ">\n\nIn my country kids considered fully adult once they turn 18, they can drink, smoke and they have all their rights. However I'd still love to take a little break before college but my family won't let me.", ">\n\nI will say that college is a great idea if you have the means. I personally couldn’t afford it, even with $20k in scholarships and fafsa I couldn’t do it. Some people have to work full time to survive, some have to care for disabled/elderly family members or younger siblings, or might have other obligations. We tell high schoolers that college is the only option, but it’s not feasible for everyone and I think it’s important to present alternative options", ">\n\nI truly believe it depends on said child. Some kids just know. They know what they want and have no problem going after. The rest of us should definitely wait until our frontal lobe is developed. I had zero clue. Figured it out by 30 but it's too late for me right now. ADHD is my downfall personally and money.", ">\n\nWe as a society don't necessarily do that. I'm a teacher and when taught in America, I (and the other teachers at my school) often pushed techs school and learning a trade over college.", ">\n\nYeah, I think pre college level schools should have a system that allows for the students to explore what interests them more. How is a person supposed to know what they want to do for college when they've never truly been given an opportunity to explore their interests? It's purposely done so that colleges can make more money off the people who don't know what they want.", ">\n\nSo I agree with you in people putting off university till a little after HS, though I wouldn't use the word predatory, its more like a false promise. A bachelor's degree is worth next to nothing in the US now because people are treating it as a fail-safe for people. I've met kids who are dumb as rocks in college and professors just pass them then they get out into the real world and take they can't do the actual job they talked for, because well their dumb as rocks... So they just eventually keep losing their job and work at some fast food place with tons of school debt. In this scenario you are correct. However, I do think that some people will benefit from school right-away. Women for one, will find the best job that pays the most for them in an educated field. Now this is where I will get major backlash, I know. But also if you are coming from a HS that doesn't have super good educational system (ei low graduation level, or good overall GPA) then your probably won't do well in college. There are the exceptions to that right, but as a statistic, those kids aren't cut for college just yet. It's better for them to go out into the world and gain experience that way and find a field they are good at/passionate about then go back to school. They will then hopefully be more mentally ready for the hardships that come with higher education", ">\n\nI went my first year, parents paying, and I felt bad because I wasn't ready to settle down and study. So, I went to work. I ended up working in construction and made a very good paycheck for a 18 y/o. I did this for about 10 years, and was a forman/supervisor for a successful company when I went back to school. By this time, I knew what my interests were and I paid my own way. \nI changed my career and my state degree in my early 30s didn't keep me from making a decent, competitive paycheck. And the 10 years of experience managing teams in construction had very translatable skills. I just went from blue to white collar, so just had to watch my salty language. :)\nSo, no, I don't think society pressure was enough to keep me from doing what I wanted. My path was not typical, and I'm doing just fine. (my wife may argue that last point.)", ">\n\nI mean it took me until age 24 to realize I was living my whole life wrong & I still don’t know what I wanna do with my life but I guess everybody is different & everybody develops & learns about themselves in a different time frame but I’d say an 18 year old doesn’t actually know what they want to do for the rest of their life", ">\n\nIt can be predatory. It can also be extremely liberating to be done with school at 22-25 years old. Working full time while going to school is an arduous prospect. Btw I believe slacking off for 2-3 years not accomplishing anything by age 21 is crippling to one’s chances of success.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I struggled a lot between 18-20 but I know that if I were taking that time while I’m school I likely would have failed out and wasted a ton of money", ">\n\nYup. It was culture for me. I went even though I had ZERO business doing so . If I would of taken a year or two and worked a real job. It would of taught me so much . Not only to respect what an education can give you. But also what I want to do with my life . Instead I went to college and just got swept away with life .", ">\n\nNope, it is not the \"pushing\" that is ridiculous/predatory/cruel, but the situation in the USA.\nIn Europe, it just feels like a secondary high-school so people don't feel \"pushed\". Heck, I am glad I started uni at 19 (yes, where I am we do HS until 19) and have not waited. I knew what I wanted since a long time ago and so do most people. And it is cheap. Everything is cheap. The only difference is that you are no longer with the parents. That's all.\nSo again, consider not the \"push\" being wrong, but what the conditions are. Your argument should be against the status of your uni system, not against students starting uni at 18.", ">\n\nYes, but given the status of the uni system, I think people should take more time before rushing into college to make sure they don’t take on a huge financial burden they might not be ready/prepared for", ">\n\nOnce again, in \"normal\" countries it's not that much of an investment. And also, it is parents that mainly pay for the cheap tuition and the living costs.\nMy point is that you should be angry at the fact that the uni system is not \"normal\" where you live, instead that young people are \"pushed\" into learning when they are in their mental prime.", ">\n\nI am not angry, nor am I angry at students going to college. I think given the US college system is bad, we should not push kids into school without them understanding the financial implications of their decision", ">\n\nI've been trying to tell this very thing to anyone that'll listen. Unless you know exactly what you want to do at the ripe old age of 18 and are prepared to put yourself in debt for years to come, don't go to college. Get a job and get some good life skills first. Learn how to be an adult and make adult decisions before you waste your money on an education that you probably won't even use. When you've figured out what is important to you and what you think you might want to do for a living, THEN go and get a degree.", ">\n\nHaha in this economy you need to be done with school by 12 so you can start saving to buy a house at 40. Goals", ">\n\nHi, you raised a lot of points, and I shall try to address as many as possible. You say that 18 yo cannot smoke. That is false in every state as well as every other country where smoking is not banned completely. As to drinking, I agree that it is hypocrisy to bestow upon 18 yo all the responsibilities of adulthood but withhold one of the privileges. I am unsure what the phrase \"barely able to vote\" means, you either can or you cannot.\nMoving on to your main thesis, which seems to me to be this: \"Uni saddles students with debt for many years to come, therefore 18 uo who are immature should not be able to make such decisions.\" In response to that I would firstly ask you to look at the alternatives. It is widely believed that the age of mental maturity is around 25. Would you have them work unqualified minimum-wage jobs for 7 years, and only afterwards go to Uni? Or would you expect parents to support them for an additional 7 years? Either way, they would be throwing away close to a decade of their lives, for the chance of making a better choice. It seems far worse than getting student loans, as they would only start working in their chosen profession at the age of 29/31, when all those who went to uni at 18 will have moved up the corporate ladder and made a significant dent in their student loans. Furthermore, it would be inconsistent to just restrict 18 yo from uni access, as you either treat them as adults or as children, therefore to be logically consistent you would need to restrict their access to driving licences, guns and voting, as all three can be extremely dangerous in the wrong hands.\nI think that the real solution to the problem is to stop giving out student loans to unprofitable degrees. Engineers, like myself, lawyers and doctors generally have far, far fewer problems with student loans than those studying history, literature or psychology. Therefore, to protect students from loans they will be unable to pay back, unprofitable degrees should operate on a pay-for-it-upfront model.", ">\n\nThey used to go off to war or to work on coal mines so college is a walk on the park.", ">\n\nI know this is buried, but if you see this, you need to understand that the lack of \"financial understanding\" that you're seeing here isn't necessarily your fault, nor any teenager's fault. It's your parent's duty and responsibility to guide you through these decisions. \nYou're feeling stressed that your father lost his job and his career might not be the same after this. That's a risk that your parents took on. As a father to a young teenager, my wife and I will take this responsibility on for her as well. We know the risks and we accept that responsibility. That's on us. We have put our name on the line for cars, homes, and most of all our children. \nI can make the same arguments that everyone else here has made, but I'll add that with a degree, you're only matched by 35% of the population. With a Masters degree, that turns into 13% of the population. You are dramatically decreasing your pool of peers with a degree, and you will see significantly less time without a job with a degree (on average).\nI'm a tradesman. My wife is a degreed worker. I made more money early in life and (as we are coming up on our 50th rotation around the sun) she is significantly out-earning me now. I expect to have a more difficult time finding work that pays well as I age as there's always someone who will do what I do for far less than I do it for. That means that I must continue my education to set myself apart from my peers who are young and hungry. It's more difficult to compete with a larger pool of people.", ">\n\nThe problem isn’t going into higher education at 18. In fact it’s easier to do that before you have a job and obligations.\nThe problem is saddling people with generational debt.\nEurope does not have that dilemma for instance.\nBut you do make a good point about trade schools.\nUnfortunately society as a whole sees the whole thing as « beneath them ». Trade school means you couldn’t hack it in normal school, so people don’t go (which is sometimes dumb, because those guys can make a lot of money).", ">\n\n\"The 'push' itself for college isn't cruel/predatory (even if there are loads of predatory practices on the financial side of things).\"\nWhat I mean by this is that the 'push' is generally caused by a swell of well-meaning advice: College was a great investment for lots of Boomers. Many who went straight to work (even many who did quite well for themselves) ended up with a bad back and wishing they had gone to college and gotten a desk job. Many who went straight to college felt like it opened a lot of doors early in their career that compounded well over the long run. On top of these anecdotes, there is plenty of government data out there showing earning projections for different educational-attainment levels that back up the anecdotes. All in all, when someone's experience was \"College worked out great for everyone I can think of!\" then \"I really think you should go to College!\" is usually well-intentioned advice given in-good-faith.\nThe fact that the financials around the post-secondary education industry became so vastly distorted compared to \"the good old days\" that blanket \"Go to college!\" advice becomes increasingly ill-advised is a tragedy but that doesn't make it malicious.", ">\n\nI don’t think the family members encouraging their kids to go to school are cruel, I think the loan companies are", ">\n\nOf course.\nBut it's not like people feel pressure to go to college because they have an innate natural desire to make loan companies happy. The pressures come from the expectations of people close to them - young people want to follow their trusted mentors' best advice.\nAll the predatory stuff is downstream of that pressure - exploiting the situation, yes, but not creating the situation.", ">\n\nI'm confused. Is the argument really that it's unjust to send kids (back) to school at 18, or that they can't drink and smoke?", ">\n\nA better argument would be that 18 year olds have received little to no education on financial literacy. A few hundred thousand in loans sounds like an insane amount but they may have little to no context as to how long that will actually take to pay off. The loans also could not be issued by any bank to an 18 year old for any other reason due to safe lending laws.\nAlso the issue here is the cost of college, not what age they go to college. It’s not really that much better that I wait until 25 so that I understand how badly I’m getting fucked over before doing it", ">\n\nIs it *just\" the cost of college, or is it pressuring 18 year olds to make a decision they may not have full context to understand? Should they go to college? Trade school? Gap year? Internship?\nShould an 18 year old feel rushed to go to college immediately after high school when they're not sure of what they want to do yet? Because if they decide they don't like the college path they've chosen, they'll still have to pay those loans off, but won't have a degree.\nPersonally I was pushed into making a decision ASAP, I had about a month after high school before I was being threatened with getting kicked out, so I chose trade school, didn't like it, wasn't good at it, wasn't a fit, but graduated for the sake of graduating and never worked professionally in that field. I still had to pay 14k in loans, which is no small amount for someone that young.\nIt's not so much the cost, but the value you get from the cost.", ">\n\nNo it's entirely the cost. The downside you described only exists because of the cost. If the cost wasn't there, then whats your downside? Oh no I'm 21 and have decided to take my life in a different direction?", ">\n\nPerhaps the discussion should be about asking an 18 year old to borrow large amounts of money. \nFor much of the developed world, going to college after high school is about studying, not taking on a lifetime debt.", ">\n\nIt’s the same in the USA; OP’s example of $300K of debt is a ridiculous exception to the norm. Average USA student debt at graduation is $29K. He’s off by an order of magnitude.", ">\n\nWell... it sounds like you're actually arguing that it's cruel that we make people pay for their college rather than providing it free like primary/secondary school. That's a very different view. \nThe reason it's encouraged to continue with higher education after high school is exactly because people's brains are less plastic after about age 25. It's not that you can't learn after that, obviously... but it does get progressively more difficult (edit: and therefore, to your apparent actual point, more expensive). \nSo yes, it makes complete sense if we want an educated populace (which we do, because the world is more complicated than it used to be), that people be encouraged to get that education young. It's just going to get harder and slower as you age.", ">\n\nBased on this I’m assuming your a teenager. First, noones getting student loans for 300k. Second, college is smart do it. Alternatively, you can just work at a gas station the rest of your life or try to make it as an influencer.\nMost of my friends that did not go to college and had the same thought process as you are currently having a hard time financially in their 30s.", ">\n\nI am a full time undergrad student but I wish I had been more financially literate and better prepared for the decision I was making prior to enrolling in a four-year university. I also think it is inaccurate and quite absurd to suggest that people without college degrees will become “influencers” and gas station workers when options such as trade and technical schools exist.", ">\n\n\nI wish I had been more financially literate and better prepared for the decision\n\nThis is an argument to support the fact that your education was inadequate prior to college, not an argument against college itself.\nYes, K-12 schools should teach a lot of life skills, including financial literacy, that would benefit all students in their future decision-making. What you'll discover as you get older is that you spent a lot of time in school learning stuff you will never use — time that could have been spent teaching you things that become hard lessons later on. School generally prepares you for more school, not life.", ">\n\nI don’t know what school you went to but I have never had a class in financial literacy in my entire schooling. I do agree that my education prior to university was inadequate, but it is not common to learn financial literacy in school", ">\n\nYes, I agree. It's not generally taught in schools. This is a problem. \nBut my point is, it's the real problem you're pointing to. Despite 13 years of education, you were not properly prepared to make these decisions that everyone knew were coming. The issue is not that there's pressure to continue education; it's that nobody prepares students for the financial decisions they're going to have to make in order to do so.", ">\n\nNo, that is not the real problem, although it is a problem. \nThe real problem is the cost of college in the first place.\nI don't know why no one is addressing this point. Maybe because it's not an actual reply to OP's point. But it's the actual answer. College is way too expensive. That's what is predatory. Higher education for its own sake is valuable. I want to live in a place where people value education, not just being a good worker bee as early as possible. This path should not be only available to the highest echelons of society. \nIt's not okay to tell people of any age that they should do trades because college is too expensive. Working in trades is hell on your body, and the average career length, not to mention career earnings, is much less than those who work in professional fields of any type.\nThe solution is fully funded post-secondary education for any and everyone who wants it.", ">\n\n\nI don't know why no one is addressing this point. Maybe because it's not an actual reply to OP's point.\n\nYes, that's why. This is CMV, so respondents are required to address OP's point and try to change their view. OP's title premise doesn't mention anything about the cost of college or debt, and the view stated in the text originally made assertions about 18 year-olds not having sufficient decision-making capacity.\n\nThe solution is fully funded post-secondary education for any and everyone who wants it.\n\nSure, but that's also an argument against OP's stated view that 18 year-olds should not be encouraged to attend college. \nFully funded post-secondary education is also already the norm in some countries, so depending on how we interpret OP's use of \"society,\" it may be irrelevant.\nBasically, by OP's own subsequent admission, they worded the post poorly.", ">\n\nConsidering OP's premise is that teenagers shouldn't be encouraged to attend college due to exorbitant costs, I think we can safely assume they live in the US.", ">\n\nFunny, bud. I am a full time college student but I do wish I had better understood what I was getting myself into so I could have considered other education options, taken my prereqs at community college, and generally just have been better educated in personal finance so that I would have had better direction", ">\n\nWhat do you consider the downsides of you going to college?\nI didn't go to university (what we call college here) so I have done the alternative that you're suggesting and I'm interested in hearing your opinion", ">\n\nI’m going to post a longer response but I generally think 18 year old are not well equipped to make the most out of their college experience, which does not make it its money’s worth", ">\n\nAn 18yo is a legal adult (I assume you're talking about the USA). They're denied access to a handful of vices, but otherwise have the full suite of legal rights and responsibilities of a 45yo. It seems weird to think that college or even student loans are more demanding or harder to understand than a full-time job and a mortgage.\nThe reason young people are encouraged to go to college is because it is generally a very good financial investment and offers a fairly gentle transition into adult life. It's a fairly low risk option with great potential upsides.", ">\n\nr/USdefaultism ?", ">\n\n\nlives paying back up to 300k in student loans.\n\nJust fix this problem. It doesn't seem like a smart idea of individuals to profit off the improved education of your population.", ">\n\nThe cruel and predatory thing is that universities charge so dang much for tuition. The cost of the issue, not encouraging kids to seek higher education.", ">\n\nIt’s often not the tuition that raises the sticker price of college. Room, Board, and fees are what have skyrocketed.", ">\n\nI think it’s all of the above, but the point stands regardless.", ">\n\n100%. Teenagers need to do the ROI on college. If you’re spending $100k on a degree that will start you at $35k a year, that is a bad investment.", ">\n\nIt's pretty nuts that in this day and age there are some countries so authoritarian that 18 year olds can't drink or smoke. It's also pretty nuts that there are some places where colleges aren't free at the point of entry, given the disastrous effects we know that has on social mobility.\nThe thing is we haven't really worked out what 18 year olds should be doing. They've finished school but because of automation there's not the unskilled labour there was and so for work we need trained and motivated 25 year olds not skilless 18 year olds. As for how we get trained and motivated 25 year olds, it's some combination of further education and apprenticeship and we haven't at all worked out the details yet and even if we did it probably wouldn't take 7 years. And what we've really not worked out at all is the equal opportunities bit where people of all backgrounds can end up with the skills to do the thing they're motivated to do.\nSo that's the medium/long term challenge. But until we sort that out if you can afford to go college is the least worst alternative. It's the closest thing we've got to a clearing house for helping people find the thing that motivates them and getting them on the path go getting skilled up in that field.\nPersonally? I'd bring back national service, minus the military bits. 2 years from 18-20 for teens to do public works in exchange for a pittance and so earn their free college from the state, and in the meantime grow up a bit and learn how to manage a budget and live the other side of the country from mum and dad (and take all the drugs and fuck everybody they meet). Then in exchange for that you get 3 years free tertiary education from 20-23 by which time you've got some idea what you're interested in and you've sown your wild oats and are ready to go to lectures. Tertiary can be vocational or academic according to your interest. And then 23-25 you're shuffled in to some form of master apprenticeship/paid internship programme.", ">\n\nGreat point!", ">\n\nI'd argue it's cruel and predatory that we as a society (if we're talking about the US, or other countries that don't have a more socialized model), charge money for education, period.\nThe only reason this above is a problem, is because we put a financial hurdle on something which we should be encouraging. After all, an older adult has far more things to worry about societally, and our society has not developed in such a way as to be optimally efficient towards self-betterment to the point where we truly enable people to better themselves, as that would require time, money, and resources that we generally impose upon the individual. (IE: It'd be tough for a 30 year old to learn from a college while having to maintain a modest US lifestyle, complete with car, apartment, food, utilities, and the job required to maintain all that.) \nWhen you've given up that lower education is somewhat meaningless, and oftentimes college is where the bulk of potential 'better jobs' come from, its as if you're being charged for future potential... without any guarantee that said future potential is ever actually seen. What if I get into being a solar or wind turbine technician, but some sweeping reactionary policymaking decides we're going back to oil and gas and coal again? What if I spend time learning about EV drivetrains, and then the market crashes and everyone stops making them? What if I get into art degrees and hone my skills, but then an AI script all but takes over any commercial viability my degree had? (Or accounting? Or for CT technician?) \nCollege works as it does because that further education is happening generally before a lot of these things have taken hold, and in ages past, college tuition was far cheaper, making it far easier for someone to potentially be able to pay for all the above and also afford tuition. In some places, State colleges were even free.\nI don't disagree that the way we have our system set up now is bad, but I'd argue its less because of college or higher education itself being a bad thing, and more about the ways in which we've created systems designed to extract wealth from people. Higher education should be a thing we encourage people to get into, we should absolutely want people to be able to access tools that enable them to become things we need for a healthier society. Putting large financial hurdles in front of them should be an obvious sign of unsustainability, and doing things like trying to make those debts stick through bankruptcy should be a clear sign of predatory behavior. \nSo if you're arguing for an easier accessibility to college education, without all the predatory claws of lenders and the greed of private institutions that're already sitting on multi-billion dollar trusts still having tuitions, then I guess I'm not really challenging your view enough. If the argument is that we shouldn't be pushing people into college period, though, then I'd be pushing back that it's our current perversion of higher education to be just another business in the US that's the problem. There's plenty of models in other countries that show we can have far more affordable colleges, or even free colleges to students, that do not require such financial commitment. In those countries, it isn't cruel and predatory, because they don't have the same broken jank that a system like the US one does.", ">\n\nYes yes yes! Not against education I’m against the greed", ">\n\nIs this an American thing I'm too European to understand?", ">\n\nYes. I apologize", ">\n\nNgl, didn't read the post BUT I went straight into college and dropped out my senior year because of burnout (at 19) and if I had waited a couple years that wouldn't have happened. So I agree.", ">\n\nYeah, I’m in my junior year and I’m completely over it. I feel much more supported by my community outside of college and have a true sense of belonging there. I have a career I’m really excited about and I feel that college is putting it on hold. I am probably going to finish my degree but ugh", ">\n\nYeah, I'm gonna finish my degree... Eventually. I need my mind to heal. I just joke and tell people I decided to take my gap year a little late but the fact that I dropped out haunts me everyday. Do your best to keep at it.", ">\n\nWhy should 18-yr olds be allowed to drink & smoke? Those negatively affect one's life, but learning more is beneficial. Sure you have to pay for it but professors don't teach for free.", ">\n\nI definitely shouldn't have gone to college right after high school. I lacked real world social skills, the necessary work ethic, the money management skills, and so much more I needed to succeed. Leaving college and spending a year working during covid really helped me alot with building up these skills. I was definitely a more well rounded person after my break from school\nI would highly recommend that anyone going to college who could use some money and experience get a shitty retail job before they go. It teaches you alot about work ethic, dealing with people and their bullshit, and so much more. It also scares you straight a bit, realizing what life without a degree could be like", ">\n\nThe only cruel part is the outrageous cost of college here in America", ">\n\nSorry, u/someonefr0msomewhere – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:\n\nDirect responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. See the wiki page for more information. \n\nIf you would like to appeal, you must first check if your comment falls into the \"Top level comments that are against rule 1\" list, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. \nPlease note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.", ">\n\nNo one pressured you into anything. I wanted to go to college right after high-school and I did just that. Others in my class didn’t and decided to do other things. Stop projecting how your feel about yourself “failure to accomplish much” onto others.", ">\n\nOkay", ">\n\nWell one big difference is that it isn't illegal to not go to college, it is just what is recommended. Alcohol and those other scenarios are actually illegal", ">\n\nWhy are you focusing on the financial impact and not the true source of the issue? There shouldn't be a significant financial impact to the student.\nContinuing education after high school is undeniably the best time to do so developmentally. A person's brain only becomes less malleable or able to absorb and retain information as they age. \nIf we removed the idea of student debt from the picture would tertiary education be either cruel or predatory? In many countries this is already the case.", ">\n\nWhile I understand the source of the financial impact on the student, there isn’t really anything we can do that will change that in the near future", ">\n\nSure there is, we can lobby our representatives for stronger financial support for students attending tertiary institutions of learning. \nDeflecting from the source of financial impact and placing it on people pressuring 18-year-olds into accruing student debt is defeatism, especially when the stats on median income support tertiary education being a net benefit for those students even factoring in significant accrual of student debt.\nThose people doing the \"cruel and predatory\" pressuring are being rational. It is on median worth it to go to college in America and it's not even close.", ">\n\nMaybe just make college affordable instead of encouraging them to wait until a period where they're unlikely to ever be able to devote their full attention to higher education.", ">\n\nWell when is it that college will be affordable? Never, lmao", ">\n\nThere are countries outside the us where college is affordable though.", ">\n\nFirst off, college is too expensive. Obviously, that is the main concern. It shouldn’t require massive loans for anyone. \nSecondly, as parents who see and are aware of the current higher-education shitshow, it is our responsibility to educate and prepare our kids. I have an 11 year old and she already knows college is unaffordable for us, and that she most likely will need to go to tech school for a while if she chooses that path. My kids are close in age and I try to teach them “team ideas” like they may want to share an apartment, and that’s probably a good idea since they already split chores and space in our home now. I also have a system where if they want something big, they can get a “loan” from me where they do chores to pay me back. If they don’t do them, they get charged a penalty. I clean houses and I’m teaching them how to do that on the side as well (I make about $40/hr). \nNone of this is ideal, but we have to do the best we can.", ">\n\nCollege is a good thing. Drinking and smoking aren't. It's like saying, \"It's cruel to force kids to eat vegetables even though they can't do heroine.\" Yes, college is expensive, but the average college grad makes about a million more dollars on their life than someone who just went to high school.", ">\n\nIt’s better than pointing I gun at them. I had a tendency to do that before cellphones. It always got their attention and they ended up driving much nicer.", ">\n\nWhat about countries that have free access to university?", ">\n\nYou didn't mention which society- there are several countries where you do not need to pay excessive loans for higher education.\nAdditionally, there are many schools in the United States which are more affordable. Many community colleges only cost a few thousand dollars per semester. This is still a substantial amount, but I think 10-20k in loans is far less cruel or predatory than 300 thousand dollars. The majority of public schools are going to be in 40-60k. Additionally, the majority of schools do not require you to pay for all four to six years in advance, it's semester by semester. So even at the more expensive state schools, the 18-year old adult is signing for 5-6k. I think this is a reasonable amount of money to be responsible for at that age.\nI would also argue that to a certain extent, 18 year old adults are mentally capable of understanding and signing contracts. The fact that society does not allow them to drink/smoke/rent a car doesn't have anything to do with their actual mental capabilities.", ">\n\nPapa said education is the only thing where money isn't wasted. Even if you owe $$$k, the critical thinking it leaves you is exponentially worthy if used properly. Critical thinking does not have to stay within the bounds of your profession.", ">\n\nCounterpoint: that only applies in the US.\nIn many other countries in the world where education is free and/or far more accessible it makes perfect sense. \nYour brain is better equipped to learn when you’re young. it’s a way to get into professions that you couldn’t start without studying. And there aren’t other life stresses like kids and careers in the way (usually). Studying young makes perfect sense.", ">\n\nThat is only in a few countries. In Argentina not only you gain the right(not the obligation yet) to vote at 16 you can drink and smoke at 18, you also gain the obligation to vote at 18 (yes, is mandatory to vote, if you dont you have to pay a small fine).\nTo add college is free so its a no brainer to go to college and start your degree.\nAnother reason to do college that fast its because its a bit easier to study if you come directly from high school. The pandemic made it harder for me to study because I lost the routine of going to class and the time spent there.", ">\n\nPersonally If I had taken a year or so off after high school I’m not sure I would’ve gone back to college. I was still in the school/education mindset and it would’ve been hard to get back into it. Even after I graduated with an undergrad degree someone mentioned going back for a graduate degree, and there would jsut be no way.", ">\n\nAll by design. If you wait til you're 30 to move out on your own and start a family, they're losing $$$$ on your mortgage and college housing expenses for those 10 ish years. I know some people stay home for college to save money, but most are moving out at 17/18 and going into debt immediately.\nWe can also talk about how they use the media and propaganda to break up homes.\nIt's all about $$$$", ">\n\nSo? Legalise drinking and smoking at 21. Hell that's legal at 16 in a lot of countries", ">\n\nJesus Christ 18 year olds can go to war and you’re saying it’s cruel to give them an education?", ">\n\nNo that’s really not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying it’s cruel that they have to incur this amount of debt to receive an education", ">\n\nIs it also problematic that we don't let 14 year olds decide to drop out of high school? And it's not like college is in anyway mandatory, it's just the next stage of school after high school. You don't have to go, it's just a very good idea for you to. As for the whole \"think about what they're missing out on\", I would be much more worried about what they're missing out on by not going to college.\nAlso, the comment about 300k debt is just so entirely beside the point. 99.9% of college students don't ever go anywhere near that level of debt, and those that do are usually going to law-school/medical school. Regardless, if we think this is a problem the obvious solution is to make college more affordable, not encourage people to forgo college. I also don't see why this decision is anymore serious than any other sort of decision we allow 18 year olds to make (to get married, to join the military, to start a business/get a job, etc.). I don't see why college is so special.", ">\n\nYou are conflating together two separate concepts. One is going to college at 18 years old, an age that is fairly universal for collegiate studies. The other is going into debt to attend the college of their choosing.\nThe latter is a choice which can certainly have long term poor consequences. Or not. One does not have to attend and fully self-fund a private education at an out-of-state institution. If one's grades and achievement is not sufficient to reduce that cost to something reasonable, then one should look at other opportunities. And that is a life lesson as well.", ">\n\nYes, you are correct. However, given this is how it is in the US, I think that it is probably smart to hold off a bit on immediately going into school", ">\n\nThat should definitely be an option. I remember an engineering lab partner who was in his thirties. He went back to school later in life and he was one of the best students I ever worked with. He had a lot of real work experience and I learned as much from his habits and traits as I did from the class.", ">\n\n\nWe actively encourage kids to place themselves into binding contracts\n\nWhat universities force you to sign \"binding contracts\"? Are you under the impression that they will pursue legal action if you drop out after one semester or something?\n\nof their lives paying back up to 300k in student loans.\n\nThe majority of schools cost a tiny, tiny fraction of this. The only possible way of getting that much debt would be to get multiple/extended degrees from one of the most expensive schools or just blowing money away on dumb stuff. Which 18 years olds can also do. Why should an 18 year old be able to buy a 50k car but not spend 10k on tuition to a top school?\n\nHow is an 18 year old, who is legally barely capable of anything\n\n18 year olds in most countries/states can do just about everything a 50 year old can save for a few small exceptions. They are legally an adult in 99.9% of ways. They can enter into contracts, make large purchases, sign a lease, sign up for car payments, get a mortgage, vote, become a legal guardian etc.\n18 year olds can spend a ton of money on just about anything, and spending it on college is one of the smartest ways to drop 10-30k.", ">\n\nI just want to know where you live that an 18-year-old can't smoke. Isn't the legal age to buy cigarettes (and weed in Colorado) 18?", ">\n\nNope. 21 everywhere", ">\n\nWell I'll be damned. A lot has changed since I was 18, apparently. I mean, it HAS been a minute.\nAs for the question CMV in question - I'm not sure that clarity necessarily comes with age, but it would definitely be nice to have the option to \"start over\" in your 40s when you maybe have a better idea of what rings your bell. But what would I have been doing between 18 and 40? Living at home with my mom? I guess my point is that \"adulthood\" has to start somewhere and for some arbitrary reason we picked 18...", ">\n\nI think your way of thinking is very America centric which fair that’s where you grew up. \nBut college is definitely not that expensive everywhere. And many many people can’t really wait around to be sure of what they wanna do as they have to earn to survive. \nCollege and getting to do what you please is a luxury that many don’t have. \nNot saying you can’t take your time or do something else but don’t think that it’s an issue everyone faces.", ">\n\nYes I am sorry I’m ranting about America", ">\n\nIts cruel and predatory in the sense there are so many pitfall degrees out there. It's not nessesarily predatory on the people telling you to go to college so much as it is on the institutions extracting cash from students who go because they are told to go at every level.\nIt's entirely possible you go into college, get a degree, and just become a debt slave because you entered a degree program that has virtually no employable skills. \nIt's not nessesarily the fault of people who tell you to go and went pre 2008 because there weren't so many pitfall degrees and it wasn't so bad loan wise either.", ">\n\nBecause college benefits them long term, while drugs literally kill them??? \nI do think it is wrong to make people feel bad for NOT going, but to simply encourage them to keep the ball rolling is to hope for the best for them. Though I do think more emphasis should be on encouraging them to simply find their own way to success (whether it be college, trade school, or being a hippie surfer dude living in a van). Happiness SHOULD be how we measure personal success in an ideal society, but we live under the iron fist of capitalism, so money is ALL that matters if you want to survive here, let alone be happy.", ">\n\nYes, yes it is.", ">\n\nWell the problem is that \"pressure\" is in the form of college education being seen as the only secure method of social maintenance, let alone social advancement. \n18 year olds might not understand the specific legalese, but they know pretty dang well that it's some form of post high school education or being relegated to either minimum wage or higher because of hazard pay conditions lifestyle until they \"think better of it.\"\nThat pressure ain't societal, it's economic, parents will stop pushing kids into degree paths when a degree is no longer all but required for any first seen path to a decent standard of living, meaning companies have to stop requiring it for jobs that don't need it, which means that the feds would need to standardize and monopolize job applications to force companies to comply with not requiring bachelor's degrees for jobs that don't need it, because the only way the whiny middle manager butt munchers would ever is with the threat of a prison sentence for hiring discrimination hanging over their head.", ">\n\nHow about we lower the drinking and smoking age instead? People who are 18 are adults who are capable of making adult decisions. That includes where to go to college, what major to choose and how much to spend. It isn't cruel or predatory for 18 year olds to go to college, it's been happening in the US en masse for nearly a century.", ">\n\n\nWe say that this is because their decision making faculties are not yet fully developed so they need to wait.\nSo where is this logic when it applies to college?? \n\nSince their decision making faculties are not fully developed society makes many decisions for them. They decide that they cannot drink or smoke.\nOnly about 1/3rd of young people go to college. For those 1/3rd we decide that college is a good investment.\n\nHow is an 18 year old, who is legally barely capable of anything, understand the true implications of such a decision? \n\nan 18 year old can understand this. you'll rack up, on average 37k in debt and on average make 36k extra per year. (according to cursory google searches).\nThere are predatory schools out there, private for profit schools which produce poor outcomes for unfairly large tuitions. Pressuring a kid to go to a predatory school is obviously predator, but your local state school is almost certainly a good investment for anyone who is academically strong.\nfor the 2/3rds of kids who academics are not strong enough, we generally recommend other paths. Trade schools, 2 year degrees, apprenticeships, etc.", ">\n\nNo one forces you. I took a few years off in between while serving in the military.", ">\n\nfact is, education is very very difficult. it seems easy when you are young because you literally do it every day for 6 hours and you do it baby steps at a time. so if you were to stop for 1 year, most people would not be able to go back to that old grueling life style of education. that's why college must be nonstop right after high school. it's not predatory. nobody is making you go at 18, you can go at 19. most don't do it because their parents know it's bad.", ">\n\nIs your issue with college? \nOr with the cost of college?", ">\n\nMomentum. If you take a break from school, you’ll find it exponentially more difficult to return. You’re being “encouraged”, not forced. Get schooling out of the way, then get on with life….", ">\n\nAnyways, here are some responses I have to some comments I’ve seen a lot of. \n1: college students fresh out of high school are more likely to continue to grind, therefore making completing a degree easier for them than it would be for an older adult with other responsibilities outside of school. \nI completely agree with this point! It is definitely easier to complete school right from high school because it is what is familiar to them. \nI think the problem is that a lot of individuals are “grinding” without an overarching goal, which oftentimes leads to some sort of existential crisis and burnout. “Sophomore blues” don’t exist without a reason. I think it is easier for people to do what they must when they have clear goals in mind. It is already starting to take the average undergrad 5 years to complete a degree due to changing majors and academic leave. People who know what they’re there to do usually make more use out of their experience and have more discipline. But yes, it can definitely be harder to keep up with the pace while juggling more responsibilities.\n2: this is an American problem. \nTrue, and we envy you! It is definitely wise for US citizens looking to go to college to look into doing their schooling abroad these days (even though I understand you might not want us lol). \n3: 300k is inaccurate\nYeah, my bad. I’m definitely in the wrong there. \nSomething I will throw in there, though, is that many college graduates are starting to go to graduate school with the belief that it will bring them financial stability, which oftentimes easily pushes tuition fees past the 100k mark. \n4: the return is better with a college degree\nYes, many studies point to this. However, depending on your career choice, getting started as young as possible may serve you better for future returns. \nSomeone wrote something about how people aren’t going to college to do their “influencing” careers (or something with crypto). This is not what I mean by a career—I am talking about a career path with steady income and employment that is not based on some component of luck in order to make it big. \nWhen it comes to four year colleges, I am also talking about how we don’t inform teens on precautionary measures they can take to reduce their debt—I don’t mean that teens should completely avoid college. Students can take prerequisite courses at community colleges in order to avoid taking these same classes at a higher cost at a college or university. We don’t really help teens find ways they can lessen the blow of loans, and yeah, I do find that kind of cruel. \n5: I think it’s unjust that 18 year olds can go to college but can’t smoke. \nNo, I just find it interesting that we think 18 year olds aren’t responsible enough to make many decisions (those were examples, maybe bad ones) yet it is completely normalized for 18 year olds to take on significant amounts of debt for schooling. When it comes to many other matters, the consensus is that 18 year olds are too naïve or unaware of what they are doing to the point of which we actually bar them from taking various actions to protect them. We tend to think 18 year olds have a very poor gauge of money and its value. \nSomeone wrote a good point that 18 year olds are able to make other financial decisions such as taking out loans on cars, marriage, and applying for credit. My response is that these decisions are, for the most part, actually highly discouraged for 18 year olds to make. People generally think that 18 year olds should avoid taking out loans on things they can’t afford/repay and most 18 year olds who buy cars only buy them outright. I don’t know a single person who thinks getting married before 25 is acceptable, and credit limits are incredibly low for 18 year olds because most of them make little to no income. Therefore, I find it odd that society encourages teens to take on student debt (a loan that, for the most part, the repayment of is uncertain) and view those who do otherwise as “not caring” for their future. Kids in college who are paying money and don’t care about their future are making a far worse choice. \n6: going to college puts you around good influences and gives you plenty of networking opportunities. \nI mean, sure I guess? You can find bad people anywhere, and I wouldn’t call the binge drinking or hazing cultures that take place at colleges influential. In fact, at many of these wealthy institutions kids do a lot more drugs than most people outside of college who can’t afford boatloads of coke. \nAlso, this idea that the “good people are in college” comes from the same sentiment that stigmatizes teens who do not attend college. Also, I think it’s pretty weird that people seem to think that successful networking is only done in college. You can form connections to anyone anywhere, really (also, as someone who is around a lot of people who call making friends “networking”, it seems pretty superficial). \n7: people figure themselves out in college. \nThis is subjective, and there are many less expensive (maybe even free!) ways to develop your sense of identity and goals in life. Speaking for myself, I figured out my direction in life entirely outside of university and college feels like a fever dream. I can’t give an objective response to this point but I don’t agree that adolescents can only “find themselves” in this bubble that is quite detached from real life. \nOverall, what I’m saying is that college is becoming less and less the “right choice” for a lot of people: the degree market is oversaturated, the undergraduate unemployment rate is growing, and job security is rapidly on the decline. I think these reasons make a good case for teens to explore alternative options such as trade schools (job growth out of trade schools are growing rapidly) and rethink whether college is pivotal or not to their personal and financial success. Yeah, I do find it pretty cruel that we throw kids into making these decisions when they are, for the most part, ill-informed. It’s especially messed up when we all kind of know that college tuition in the US is fucking ridiculous and a bachelor’s degree doesn’t hold the same value it used to. \nMy apologies for the typos, I’m writing this from my phone\ntldr: worded post wrong, against loans and not so much school, but hate the stigma around not going to school", ">\n\nYour title suggests that you take issue with the education, but really what you're talking about is debt. Presumably, you don't think that societal pressure to attend college would be bad if it were free, like it is in many countries, right?\nMy point is that some people will get free or heavily subsidized higher education and some people's families can afford to pay for college without taking out loans. If we don't allow the less fortunate people (those who have less money or live in places where college is more expensive) to take out loans to fund their education, then they'd be placed at an even greater disadvantage. The loans are a way of leveling the playing field.\nThat being said, there really does need to be some reform in the way higher education is financed in the US.", ">\n\nI agree. I changed my major twice, graduated and only now realized I want to do a complete different thing", ">\n\nEveryone’s different. For me, i needed to keep momentum or id fall apart", ">\n\nThat’s true. I was so discombobulated—I needed to understand what I was doing there first", ">\n\nI get why, when you have a house to pay for and a job, you dont really have the time. And if you managed to have a kid, even worse. Less people would probably go to college if they didn't go right away. Not to mention, being away from school for 4+ years, you likely forget a lot of things you learned from hs.\nThough I didnt go right away, and I know many who didnt.", ">\n\nMy question is - if not continuing education, then what?\nNo point or great ability to start a career right after high school. If you feel you'll likely end up in college, why start a career that you'll end up having to leave?\nIf not working, parents are footing the bill for their 18 year old to do - what? If they're going to pay for cost of living I would think the preference would be for that living to be WHILE pursuing education, not just teaching them to live off someone else's dime.\nThe gap year for travel and soul searching only works if the 18yr of has saved up for it and/or if parents foot the bill - which again, as a parent myself - I'd much rather pay for college than for a wordwide hostile tour.\nYes, debt isn't great and 18 is young, but I have yet to hear a better alternative", ">\n\nNo it’s not. You have a finite number of good years to be able to have the energy to learn your trade to a high level of competence. Past your early to mid 30’s things get harder because you will likely pick up commitments with your personal life plus work. People need to experience a lot of things quickly- like in about 5 years tops and then commit to learning and executing. That’s kind of 18-23. After that , you’d want to have at least an idea of what you want to do with yourself and commit to it. Keep on putting off a business idea, a trade, a career- whatever it is you like the sound of- and it will eventually be late enough in the day that you will be more likely to give up than to press on. \nThere’s stories about guys who’ve started successful businesses etc in their middle age (Ray Kroc from McDonald’s was about 50 when he made it big) but those are only the exceptions, not the rule.", ">\n\nI honestly believe the inverse. Kids are in school for TOO long. Think about it. You have kids spend 12 years of their lives with free mandatory education then by the time they are working age they are unable to contribute to any specialized workforce without a significant financial contribution and MORE education! In our highly specialized society kids have no wiggle room in regard to the timeframe in which they can pick a skill. I think we need to emphasize specialization much earlier on and allow kids to experiment and gain experience while their education is government sponsored.", ">\n\nThis whole argument falls apart in the removal of student loans. \nWhich of course is predatory. \nBut it's not predatory to expect 18-19-20 year olds to make decisions for themselves.", ">\n\nWell, it’s not as if the student loans are going to be removed, so I don’t exactly see how this critical point can just be taken out of the argument", ">\n\nWhat I mean is the issue you have seems to be more with student loans, and less of the expectation that 18-19-20 year olds to make lasting decisions on their life. \nThe cost of college can be easily mitigated by:\n\n\nScholarships\n\n\nCollege Funds \n\n\nCommunity College/4-Year college hybrid\n\n\nWhere you live, especially since the predatory industry is uniquely American\n\n\nProbably some others I'm neglecting to mention. \n\n\nSo yes, student loans are the critical point to your argument, but that's kind of my point.", ">\n\nCapitalism, the earlier kids go to get higher education, to get a job and pay taxes and such the faster government can get more money", ">\n\nIs this an American issue I’m too European to understand?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\n:(", ">\n\nBut if you weren't in debt up to your eyeballs you would demand fair working conditions and reasonable compensation.", ">\n\n1- please save this and Revisit once you're 30. 2- No, its 100% LOGICAL to keep going and NOT take a break! Id bet that less than 5% of “break year kids“ ended up becoming successful as quickly as their peers that went straight to college! 3- what exactly do u NEED to do on break, that you cant do in college? (😉ahhh nothing but f up right? Lol) 4- kids under 25, ESPECIALLY under 18 need parental guidance--hence why rental car companies dont trust 24yr olds😭)", ">\n\nValid", ">\n\nIf there was some kind of assessment to see if kids are truly ready (emotionally, psychologically, life experiences) for the responsibilities and challenges of college.\nSome kids do a year of travel, but most don't have money for that. I think a \"between high-school & college bootcamp\", that tries to teach kids who didn't have a lot of experience being out on their own would be helpful.", ">\n\nIt is not cruel to encourage young people to better themselves. Whether it is recommending going to college, acquiring life skills, doing a trade, getting a job or any other method really. Bettering yourself while you are young is generally going to lead to better outcomes. People who encourage young people to improve themselves are not being cruel.", ">\n\nThat is not what the post is saying", ">\n\nIt's what the title and original sentiment of op was. It's the most extreme part of the belief, which is why I chose to challenge it.", ">\n\nI believe every 18 year old should do 2 years of community (ameriserve) or military service.", ">\n\nThanks for the insight", ">\n\nCollege is the most traumatic thing that can happen to anyone, and (if I ignore all your apologies) you are right. No young person deserves that amount of pain. My mum, who didn’t go to college, is already telling my 5yo nephew that he should. When he is closer to the age of finishing high school, I will set him straight, instead of brainwashing him from such a young age.", ">\n\nOver 300 comments on this post and you didn't award a single delta? Nobody changed or adjusted your view in any way?", ">\n\nI have spent a lot of time responding but I will read through.", ">\n\nIn Germany it‘s very common to do a gap year where you go abroad and work a little bit. New Zealand is quite popular for this.\nIt helps you to figure stuff out. And the university itself is only like 600€ per year, so that helps too. In that situation it makes sense to start early, as it‘s easiest to continue your study routine.", ">\n\nI'm writing from an Israeli perspective. \nIn Israel, the accepted route is this one: at the age of 18 we go to the army to serve for 2-3 years (sometimes more). after that, we usually go for a long trip, something like 4 months-1 year around the world (usually we go to South America, India, or to Southeast Asia). and only after that, at the age of approximately 22-23, we go to college. \nAs an Israeli I think it makes much more sense.", ">\n\nSo the student loan problem can really be predatory so I’ll concede that but financial ignorance can generally be just as predatory across any age group. Some of the financial statistics out there are pretty wild. That’s not to cheapen this but to point out that generally as a country seemingly not making horrible financial decisions can be difficult for us.\nBiggest point I wanted to dig into was the idea of a student not knowing what they wanted to do. While anecdotal I’ve spoken to thousands of people in a professional capacity and have only met a handful that specifically wanted to do something then strived to accomplish it. For many people career choice was a combination of earning potential, passing course load and the work itself not boring them to death. My point is many older people didn’t suddenly learn what they wanted to do. Many tried a few things and narrowed it down. I studied accounting in college and tried it for 2 years and determined it wasn’t for me lol. I reinvented myself would going to college and do something pretty different now. I’ve met countless people with similar stories from all over the place and most didn’t go back to school. I’ve met plenty of trades people that would absolutely do something else if they could and earn a similar income.", ">\n\nAgreed in that many 18 years olds have no clue what they want to do.\nHowever I'm assuming you're based in America because of the no drinking/smoking thing. But I'm guessing you do it anyway?\nIn some ways uni students are better off than British ones. You get to study loads of subjects and 'choose your major' and generally experiment with loads of classes. In the UK you pick your subject and that's it for the whole 3 years unless you fancy your chances starting again. At least you guys get a bit more choice.\nAnd who forced you to go? You decided to go to uni. You may have felt like you had no other choice but you didn't have to go.", ">\n\nWhile many people suggest the issue lies in not educating the youth about things like loans and adulting in general, I’m still 100% with you that it is cruel to enforce a social norm for all 18 year olds to go to college immediately because they “should”. Even if finances aren’t a big concern, the American Education System, specifically in higher education such as college and grad school have many faults, and it shouldn’t be expected of everyone to partake in that corrupt system, even if they are fully educated and aware of the student loan process.", ">\n\nThe problem is not pushing kids to go to college right after high school. That's the best time in life to get further education. \nThe problem is that, specifically in USA, education stops being free after High School. \nYou're on the right track, that putting college graduates in such immense debt is predatory, but you're barking up the wrong tree. Instead of pushing kids away from college, you should be pushing for free college education.", ">\n\nSociety benefits from having a more educated population...so it is a good thing to push young adults toward more education. At the same time, it is important to note that college isnt for everyone, as you mentioned...but I think that that young people should give it a shot and become a bit more educated. Sure, they could graduate and work at a store and try to work themselves up the corporate ladder...but eventually they will hit a education barrier. Loans allow people to go to school and give it a try. They can pay it back with their higher earnings post graduation once they become what they wanted to...whether that is a Engineer, Programmer, or Management. The ones that struggle are the ones that dont realize that what you study in school matters...a lot. Taking loans and using that money to study something not productive and in demand is a recipe for struggle.", ">\n\nThey need to be a adult at some point.", ">\n\nBeing an adult ≠ going to college", ">\n\n\nSomeone wrote a good point that 18 year olds are able to make other financial decisions such as taking out loans on cars, marriage, and applying for credit. My response is that these decisions are, for the most part, actually highly discouraged for 18 year olds to make. People generally think that 18 year olds should avoid taking out loans on things they can’t afford/repay and most 18 year olds who buy cars only buy them outright. I don’t know a single person who thinks getting married before 25 is acceptable, and credit limits are incredibly low for 18 year olds because most of them make little to no income. Therefore, I find it odd that society encourages teens to take on student debt (a loan that, for the most part, the repayment of is uncertain) and view those who do otherwise as “not caring” for their future. Kids in college who are paying money and don’t care about their future are making a far worse choice.\n\nI have a couple of issues with your response to this argument.\nWhile it is highly discouraged to take out large loans on a car, take out a large line of credit, get married, etc, I think you massively downplay the incredible returns that college has on average. Over the course of a lifetime, college graduates make $900,000 (for men)/$630,000 (for women), than high school graduates. (source) For comparison, the average 4 year debt for a bachelor's degree is about $31,000 (source) . \nTo your point about repayment being uncertain, when you look at the data on the subject, student loan delinquency is a minority case and those who don't complete their degree are more likely to be delinquent. About 8% of those who complete their bachelor's degree are student loan delinquent. (source)\nSo, the reason why we don't encourage the other things that include large loans and encourage college instead is because 1) a car doesn't increase in value and is generally not an investment and marriage can be an investment but most people after high school do not have a stable enough income stream to make it work. Other types of loans that 18 year olds can take out just aren't investments with the same type of returns that college has.", ">\n\nDon't like my opinion? Like these little petty games? Then it seems my time would be more beneficial for me spent somewhere else. Enjoy yourself and your agenda.", ">\n\nWhat?", ">\n\nNot all countries are like the US where post-secondary education costs can be extortionate. In many European countries, post-secondary education is either free-of-charge or the annual cost is low enough to not be a debt trap (e.g. in the Netherlands it's less than 3000 euros annually). \nIn those countries, is it cruel/predatory to encourage a post-secondary path immediately after graduating high school?", ">\n\nYou know what it means to lack a sense of humor, right?", ">\n\nMaybe a year of service, military, or nursing homes, or national parks, etc mandatory at 18.", ">\n\n\nthey can’t drink or smoke\n\nThey should be able to drink; making the limit 21 was a way to reduce underage drinking in high schools. Underage drinking happens in college too, since the limit is 21, but that's OK because 18-year-olds drinking isn't actually a problem. It's high schoolers shouldn't be drinking. As for smoking, it's a similar idea here: don't let high schoolers smoke, and this will cause fewer people to be smokers later in life. You don't magically gain the ability of judgment when you're 21; the government just couldn't justify raising the age any higher without just making tobacco illegal. And it's working; a lot fewer people smoke now than when I was a kid.\n\nThey are barely able to vote and don’t gain too many legal privileges until they are actually 21 years old.\n\nThat's not true. The only one that's actually relevant here in terms of legal \"privileges\" is the ability to buy alcohol. The ability to buy tobacco is stupid and nobody should be doing it in the first place, so who cares what the age limit is? 18-year-olds are legal adults: they can live on their own and make their own decisions, they are treated as adults in contract law, sexual relations, and criminal law, they can join the armed forces, etc. It's completely reasonable for an 18-year-old to enter into a long-term loan.\nWhat's not reasonable is for college to cost that much to the student. College itself is very good and it's definitely the correct place for 18-year-olds to go after high school. But costs are simply ridiculous. All public college should be completely free and high-quality. There should be a nationwide system of public universities with competitive admissions -- you know, like basically every other country. Saddling people with lifelong debts is basically unconscionable, but it's not like raising the age at which you do this would help really anyone at all (unless it's for something like a mandatory year or two of service before college, where \"service\" doesn't have to be military necessarily).", ">\n\nJoin the military. It’s not hard . Do a 4 years , make friends for life and end up getting tuition paid while they also pay you to be a full time student . \nWorking on my bas now and it will feel hundreds of times better when I finish knowing mommy and daddy didn’t pay for it" ]

[ "There's nothing inherently wrong with continuing higher education after high school. It's arguably the best time to do so before you have other financial or social responsibilities that would prevent you from being able to dedicate yourself to it.\nThe problem is that everything in our society costs too much. In the past, you could pay your own way through college on a part time job. Hell, you could even buy a car and a house and raise a family on an entry-level wage. The fact that college requires crippling debt is a symptom of an economic failure in society toward the working class, not an inherent issue with a college education. Even factoring that into account, it's still usually better to go to college.", ">\n\nThe average debt at graduation is $29K. Basically a car loan in return for 30-50 years of career benefits, including higher pay, lower chance of unemployment, and preferential hiring.", ">\n\nWhere are you getting that statistic from? Just the housing and meals in my area for a college student is over 12 grand a year, and that doesn't include any tuition.", ">\n\nTo be fair housing and meals is an expense you'd have anywhere if you move away from parents", ">\n\nSure, but if you move out of your parents house to work full time, vs putting it into high interest debt or chipping away at a part time job is a big difference.\nI just calculated in state and out of state tuition for the school I went to, and it puts the rough estimate of yearly costs at 26k and 48k, respectively, for tuition, room and board.\nIt's a state school.", ">\n\nStaying in state is a huge cost savings for sure.", ">\n\nYup, still about a six figure debt if you don't work or get scholarships though, cost of college is insane. I went through the military, and it's sad that it's the only cheap way for decent schools.", ">\n\nMy state school was a bit cheaper although not by much - prob about 22k/yr for tuition and board. Then there were a couple small scholarships was able to find for $500-$3k each.\nI think that price for college is about the max that it's \"worth\". Otherwise getting into over six figure debt isnt a great way to start. Not to mention all of the people who find out they don't even want to use their degree.", ">\n\nYup. I got an engineering degree out of it, but for anything that's not guaranteeing a job of 80+ out of school definitely needs to be brought down on the cost of tuition", ">\n\nIsn't the real issue here the limited understanding of the impact of large financial decisions at 18 rather than anything about college? If a kid comes from a wealthy family that will pay their way, why shouldn't they consider college? If our society subsidized college making it relatively \"free,\" why shouldn't they consider college? The basic idea is that there are other considerations and solutions rather than focusing on people's age.", ">\n\nYou could argue that even if college were free it might not be the right path for everybody, but I suppose one could drop out in that case. Still, I think people should be able to make these kinds of decisions for themselves without feeling social or familial pressure one way or the other.", ">\n\nThe opportunity cost for college is at its lowest point right out of high school. That is the main reason to go then.", ">\n\nYep - if you’re going to go at all, that time immediately after high school is when your remuneration at any job will be at its lowest point, so you’re best applying yourself then. Also, you’re the most-likely to have the least responsibilities/obligations at this time (kids, mortgage, marriage) than any other time in your life.", ">\n\nIt's also when your brain is the freshest. It's just gonna get more and more sluggish after age 20.", ">\n\nYep - your 20s are when you should be applying yourself to learning as much as possible (and that doesn’t only mean in college - lots of ways to learn things). And in your 30s mastering a craft.", ">\n\nYes, very anti-US. I envy you guys", ">\n\n\n\nCollege is optional. Nobody has to go at all. Anyone who chooses to go, should be smart enough to research their choices and the implications of student loans. \n\n\nGap years are so common that most colleges allow incoming students to defer enrollment their first year. \n\n\nA $300k price tag in the US is for private colleges. State college average cost for 4 years is $125k. In some states like NY if your family makes under $125/year tuition is free. Community college is far less at $5k a year. And all of this depends on your income level and how much financial aid you receive. This is all information that is publicly available. If you choose to attend a private college you can’t afford, see my first point.", ">\n\n\nCollege is optional. Nobody has to go at all. Anyone who chooses to go, should be smart enough to research their choices and the implications of student loans. \n\nIt is getting a lot better and things are swinging back to where trades arent being discouraged, but there was a time period where it was college or bust and that was the message that was pushed hard when I was in high school", ">\n\nSame here. But trade schools were designed to keep low income people out of colleges. Have you ever seen a rich person digging ditches? Most of the options seem male-oriented and you have to be in good shape. And dentists and docs can't be made in trade-school", ">\n\nI'll agree they are male oriented, but you don't have to be in shape to be an electrician, plumber, welder, etc", ">\n\nWhen I was in high school (class of 2017), we had military recruiters - quite regularly; they'd set up a booth in the cafeteria at lunch and give out little prizes if you could do 10 burpees or whatever - but no college recruitment, ever. Just to clarify, would you say the same reasoning applies to pressuring them into any sort of binding decision like that?\nThat aside, I would point out a few factual considerations. I don't know if they'll be decisive, but on the chance that they could be:\n\nTypical debt on graduation, for those who have any, is about $30k; $300k would be more like the sticker price (for four years) of an expensive private school.\nChanging their mind about career doesn't necessarily mean more time in college; most majors are applicable to many professions, unless they want to go into a few licensed fields, and changing majors in the first two years often has minimal penalty anyway.", ">\n\nPrecisely. The idea that college is job training is simply wrong. Only a few majors directly lead to jobs; nursing, engineering, and architecture being the ones that come to mind. The rest are all academic disciplines; math, English, literature, history, government, political science, chemistry, physics, biology, psychology, sociology, philosophy, and so on. None of those are direct-to-job majors.\nAnd all majors take essentially the same classes the first 2-3 years. You only really have one year of the four that’s dedicated to your area of study. And about a half year of electives which, depending on what’s chosen, may or may not have anything to do with your major directly.", ">\n\nYour main gripe appears to be that there is a lack of maturity and responsibility among 18-year-olds, and that this prevents them from being able to make decisions regarding college/uni.\nIm not American so i don’t know how exactly the voting age works - but you seem to equate seriousness of the supposed disenfranchisement and legal disadvantages with not being able to drink or smoke so I’ll view them as not very limiting. That notwithstanding, these supposed legal limitations can be set independently of their ability to make decisions, so it’s not fair to assert that they don’t have the ability to judge the implications of going to uni based on such rules. \nYou suggest that it’s flippant to go to college at the age of 18 as one wouldn’t know what they want to do with their lives - which I view as totally illogical because that is where you will go to figure yourself out, most people I know who went to college did not know where they would end up but found their career, passion, etc while there. \nYou also point at this American debt issue, again I can’t make in-depth judgements about it, but these days a college degree is pretty much required for a well paying job. As someone else pointed out, the return on investment is positive so while yeah, the debt is ludicrous, a college degree is better overall. \nThe age of eighteen is the prime time to go to college/ uni imo, your ability to learn does start dropping off in your mid-to-late 20s. Your college years aren’t for making concrete decisions, that’s for later in your life. If the ages of 18 to 22 or beyond are best used learning and exploring and after 25 is when you temper down and mature, then youd ought go to college right out of HS.", ">\n\nDoes this just have to do with high tuition cost? In certain countries, college education is very cheap. You think it is fine in these countries for 18 year olds to go straight into college?", ">\n\nAlmost nobody is taking on $300k worth of loans. \nAs for \"pressure\" the reality is that a college education affords you significant upward economic mobility if you come from meager means, and is critical to remain financially stable if you come from a financially stable family.\nFurther, there are important skills you learn in college that you don't learn in high school. Statistical literacy. Formal/professional writing. Critical thinking. Ability to read technical reports and understand what is being discussed. These skills are all equally taught no matter what your major is, and all are important in most modern careers.\nFurther, college serves as a community for building a professional network. In addition to the network of people you meet in your classes and day yo day life, you also have access to university-organized job fairs where you can talk directly to industry recruiters. \nFinally, regardless of your major, a college degree can be a critical stepping stone towards professional careers such as medicine, law, business, etc., and in fact those diverse major backgrounds can be a boon for applicants to these sorts of programs.\nSo, college is actually a good thing and it is not necessarily a problem that an 18 year old doesn't know precisely what they want to do with their lives.\nThe alternative is also just not as good. Let's say you take 5 years off to work menial jobs before deciding to go to college to pursue a career you love. Now your study skills, reading skills, writing skills, etc are unpracticed for 5 years. You're older and may have other responsibilities in your life that will interfere with your studies (especially kids!). And you're likely to have less time to actually work in your chosen career to pay off those loans. So, you get less out of it and you're less prepared for it. Is that a better solution? I don't think so.", ">\n\nFirst, you're wrong that nobody is taking $300k out in loans. It may be a shocker, but there are people who decide not to go to in-state public schools...and when you do this your tuition immediately doubles ... average cost of college is $35k a year, and most students get their degree in 5+ years. That's on average $175k. Choosing to go to top tier school will be more like $65k/year which puts you in the $325k range.\nDo most parents pay for some of this? Do most get some sort of financial aid? Do most people pay for at least some college upfront? Yes of course. But not all.", ">\n\n\nFirst, you're wrong that nobody is taking $300k out in loans. It may be a shocker, but there are people who decide not to go to in-state public schools...and when you do this your tuition immediately doubles ... average cost of college is $35k a year, and most students get their degree in 5+ years. That's on average $175k.\n\nIt's possible to accrue this type of debt if you go to an out-of-state private school, but that just means most people probably shouldn't do that.\n\nChoosing to go to top tier school will be more like $65k/year which puts you in the $325k range.\n\nContrary to common belief, Ivys are extremely generous with low-income students. They charge rich kids the full sticker price, but the price for low-income students is very low (Harvard advertises that students from families who make less than $75,000 don't pay anything to attend).", ">\n\n\nIt's possible to accrue this type of debt if you go to an out-of-state private school, but that just means most people probably shouldn't do that.\n\nI mean that's really the OP's point - 17/18 YO are not typically equipped to make a sound financial decision here.", ">\n\nGiven that college education is the best vehicle for social mobility (and this has been backed up a ton in the literature) it seems to me that saying “reconsider going to college because you are too ignorant to make a good financial decision right now” is throwing the baby out with the bath water. The proper intervention is to do a better job educating students on their options.", ">\n\nI felt this way for a while, but the success rate for post-secondary education is fairly decent. I've also heard multiple arguments that many younger people have an easier time with a full-time course load than older people do. In my own experience, coming back to college at age 26 was better for me mentally, but harder financially. I'm 33, and still haven't completed a degree because my financial and mental health problems push me to take extended breaks while I save money and regroup internally. Anecdotally, many young students are used to full-time education, because it's all they've ever known. It's easier for many to just stay in the grind and knock it out before moving on to the next stage in life.\nPersonally, I think the problem isn't that we push kids in too young, it's the way we handle tuition. The US does alright overall, but many countries handle school finances and culture differently, and have better overall outcomes for students.\nLastly, it's worth a nod to your argument in that high school students in the US aren't often made aware of trade schools and other post-secondary education options. Maybe we would see success rates rise if students with talents outside of traditional education were encouraged to pursue those, rather than pushing them into the same system as \"everyone else.\"", ">\n\nPeople CHOOSE to go to expensive schools. My entire college education including room and board for a B.S. in a stem field cost less than 40k.", ">\n\nSmart. You can get an engineering degree at a state school for under $40k.", ">\n\n\nHow is an 18 year old, who is legally barely capable of anything, understand the true implications of such a decision?\n\nMost aren’t spending $300k. You’re off by an order of magnitude. The current average isn’t even over $30k. \nEven at $30k debt that’s an entirely reasonable amount of money to spend to get a $900k lifetime return. \nWhere’s the issue? Spend some now earn more over your lifetime.", ">\n\n\nThere are numerous studies that show that only a small percent of degrees are actually profitable. \n\nCitation needed.\nThe median high-school-only full-time income is well under the 25th percentile bachelor's-or-higher income, so a large majority of four-year graduates out-earn most high-school-only graduates.", ">\n\nWhich means... 84% make less. That's the opposite of your point. Most college grads out-earn most high school grads, like I said.\nFor that matter, the first heading on your first source's full report is \"Earnings Generally Increase\nwith More Education\". And take a look at Fig. 5 - bearing in mind that the median lifetime income with a high school diploma is $1.6M (Fig. 2), every single category of majors out-earns the median high school graduate (the lowest being Education, with a median of $2M). Your source conclusively and consistently supports my claim.\nNo one is denying that exceptions exist.", ">\n\n\nYes but my point was not all degrees are profitble not that collage doesnt give you a chance to make more money. \n\nYou specifically said only a small percentage of degrees are profitable. \"A small percentage\" is not \"not all\". As I said, no one denies that exceptions exist.", ">\n\nIn that case, sure. I don't think it's really disputed that, say, social work or education is poorly paid given the degree requirement, and not a great investment financially.", ">\n\nCruel and predatory? Feels like you just chose 2 random negative words because you didn't want to say 'bad' twice.\nAlso your issue doesn't seem to be with studying, but with getting tuition. Maybe you should argue for free public education instead.", ">\n\n\nFeels like you just chose 2 random negative words because you didn't want to say 'bad' twice.\n\nThat's the mark of an educated man.", ">\n\nThat's the mark of someone wanna trigger emotional response form reader. It's a\nstretch to use those words in this post", ">\n\n\nSo where is this logic when it applies to college?? We actively encourage kids to place themselves into binding contracts where they may have to spend a decent chunk (or the rest) of their lives paying back up to 300k in student loans.\n\nNope. They got ONE loan for ONE semester. Attended classes for 4 months while talking to teachers and peers. And then decided that it still made sense and took out ANOTHER loan for another semester. And so on…. a lot more times. At any point they could realize it was a mistake, if they decided that, and leave.\nAnd the average debt at graduation, is $29K.", ">\n\nFair.", ">\n\n\nbarely able to vote\n\nYou're either old enough or not. And at 18, you can vote. As a matter of fact, booze, cigarettes and running for President of the US are pretty much the only things you can't do. You are considered an adult in almost every other way. Stop infantilizing 18 year olds and treating them all like incompetent idiots.", ">\n\nIdk I was a pretty incompetent idiot (nice word choice) at 18", ">\n\nYou shouldn't generalize others from self.", ">\n\nYou definitely shouldn't...but 18 year olds are generally morons. Not their fault, but generally true.", ">\n\nI was a \"non-traditional\" student, so you're preaching to the choir. But I can think of a few reasons why social pressure to go straight to college makes sense:\n\nKeep the momentum going! It's very hard to go to the \"real world\" and then back to school. You get caught up in life: rent, bills, freedom, etc. Not everyone has the luxury of staying with their parents, and the USA does not have the social support networks in place to enable gap-year folks like some other countries.\nReturn on investment! Kickstarting your career early can provide some crazy high return on investment. Both literally, in the form of early investing in stocks, as well as more figuratively in the form of higher career trajectory and fluidity.\nSocietal impact! On a macro scale, what we want is productive and contributing members of society. Pushing folks into school might not be the best for an individual, but it's very likely best for society as a whole.\n\nAnd I can think of a direct counterpoint to your assertion, as well. It's no more predatory than the fact that an 18 year old can open a credit card, sign a mortgage, get married, take out a car loan, sign up for life insurance, etc. All those things can be tools, and can also be predatory when abused by assholes looking to profit. And the people getting preyed on really run the whole gamut of society - there are 50 year olds who are signing objectively bad loans, racking up tens of thousands in credit card debt and signing mortgages way outside their means. So unfortunately I don't think this particular industry is any worse than all the others in which an individual can shoot themselves in the foot by not thinking critically about their choices.", ">\n\nFortunately American colleges treat students like children in lots of ways, from making sure they are housed to keeping attendance in class. So that more or less works out OK.", ">\n\nHow does predatory fit in here? Colleges do advertise, but the people doing most of the advocating don't stand to gain anything from the bad advice.\nIs it the government providing loans that's predatory? Leaving aside someone that's politically left having to state the government is predatory; I assume just like with private companies, the terms of the loan are straight forward; They tell you exactly what the loan will cost if you only make minimum payments. This actually seems less predatory than companies selling products where they omit problems or important context with the product (eg - iRobot doesn't clearly tell you the various sensor issues their vacuums have).\nSo who is the predator here?", ">\n\nI pressured both my kids NOT to straight after school. They ignored me and went anyway.", ">\n\nAs opposed to what? Travel the world? Sit around playing FFXI? “Cultivate a hobby”?\nWith whose money? Living where? Will your parents just pay for you to travel the world for the “experience”? Will they just let you live with them while you get your Mythic Weapon to ilvl 119? The answer is probably no. Paying either part of or all your tuition is one more kindness your parents are doing for you, you can’t expect them to pay for you to lounge around. Especially American families, where it’s all about one self rather than the family unit. You don’t know how many threads I’ve read where people tell others to just ditch their parents and let them “rot in a nursing home”. Forget that they spent 18+ years of their life taking care of you. \nIf your answer is “I’ll work”, then what work? Delivering pizza? Because you’ll be hard pressed to find a good job at 18 with no degree. \nTherefore, what you’re suggesting is simply infeasible for most people.", ">\n\nThe problem here is not sending young adults to college. That's a good idea because both their school knowledge and learning methods are still there.\nThe problem is a system where going to college costs 300k.", ">\n\nBut it doesn’t. It would only cost that if you paid nothing, went to the most-expensive private school you could find, and did it all with debt while also funding your living expenses with debt too.\nThe average debt at graduation is only $29K. So, clearly, few have that type of debt. Certainly vanishingly-few who are getting bachelors degrees. Most people who get into six-figure debt from school end up lawyers and physicians.", ">\n\nOP: Going to college is not close to being cruel and predatory. Setting up someone for failure is.\nBeing around an scholastic environment with people who are seeking to improve their lives and education is legitimately the opposite of what you have said. \nGuess what else you can take at college. Trade school programs, certifications, and the degree to ensure your knowledge and success. \nMost people can even get financial aid for help! You don't need to go to a Ivy league school. Now adays most employers don't give a fuck. You just have to be educated and able to do the job.\nGuess what? Humans need to learn and need to face resistance in the mind and body to improve and strengthen. Heavy weight and resistance will force the body to build muscle or strength. Learning will force the mind to expand it's capabilities.\nA young person, especially someone around 18 is vulnerable to negative influence. They really should be around positive people and a positive environment. There are many vices that will ruin a life, and trust me on this. The worst influencers are seriously not trying to go to college and improve their life.", ">\n\n\nMost people can even get financial aid for help! You don't need to go to an Ivy league school. Now adays most employers don't give a fuck.\n\nCorrection: nobody gives a fuck. Other than pretentious dummies or people whose goal was to skate through life on the “good old boy’s network” of grads from their alma mater.", ">\n\nAlot of people in this thread are campaigning hard for thr benefits of college. And I 100% agree, the stats don't lie. But it's more nuanced than that. As an elementary school kid I always heard from my teachers \"you need to go to college to be successful\" and that's not inherently true. What is not often talked about is choice of major, which imo is an even more important choice than choosing whether to go to college or not. \nAlot of 18 year Olds don't know what they want to do, and I saw many MANY people get degrees in stuff that hasn't helped them at all. Or change degrees after wasting alot of time and money on their first degree choice. What I'm trying to say is that engineering degree and a theater degree are 2 different things. I could graduate with an art degree tomorrow and it's no guerentee I make 6 figures ever. Granted, I'm sure there are art majors making alot of money, but the job field isn't exactly as fruitful as other majors. \nEven things like teachers. My brother Is a teacher and my other brother with a trade job makes twice as much as him without needing a degree", ">\n\nA lot of people in this thread probably went to college.", ">\n\nI used to have the same thought about drinking and smoking, but what benefit does either have more than college?\nI don't think the problem is that they go to college, I think the problem is they go to college wanting a degree in something that they were told in high school would make them 6 figures starting salary. So they jump in for the money and never figure out what their passion is which leads to a college degree that becomes useless when they realize they can't get a job.", ">\n\nThe way I approached college was to start taking core/required classes (English, math, history, government, etc) while choosing electives that were subjects that looked interesting but I knew nothing/little about. Doing that helped me find the major I wanted. And, while I never worked in that field after graduating, it held me in good stead and I was successful in the field I ended up wanting to work in.", ">\n\nThat is a smart approach and often it seems college is almost set up for people to take that route. I think some just don't take the time to look into different electives to find what they enjoy.", ">\n\nIn 1969 when I first went to uni there was any government loans, the tuition was $200 a semester with no limitations on credit hours taken, then gov loans came in and tuitions sky rocketed and have continued to do so ever since along with restrictions on how many subjects you take. I agree this was a predatory act done intentionally so schools could make money, kind of a sideways attempt at government sponsored education.", ">\n\nI think trade schools don't get mentioned often enough as legit beginning on a decent career path.", ">\n\nMost kids see no glory in such blue-collar work, feel they’d have “settled” and be looked down upon, and also see four years where they can continue hanging out with their friends while not working, versus taking a full-time job and “getting started”. Not hard to imagine they prefer the easy “glory” path to the “get busy and become a taxpaying member of society” path.", ">\n\nBecause if they don't go immediately they likely will never go. \nWhich for many wouldn't be a bad thing.", ">\n\nIn many of Asian and European countries, college education is funded by the governments and is not as atrocious as here in the US. Arguably, continuing education whilst young has lots of benefits because it's well understood that learning declines as we age.", ">\n\nI sure wish I had more time to figure out what I wanted to do. Tuition is relatively cheap where I am and my parents paid for it - but I studied something I have no passion for, so my outlook is not great right now. I wish I had the funds to go back and get another degree but it would mean going in debt and being financially fucked for who knows how long. If I took a few extra years to work and have a better idea of what I wanted to study I probably would've made a better decision and been in a better place now? who knows", ">\n\nThis!!", ">\n\nSee if your school has a Co-op program. You work 6 months and go to school for 6 months.", ">\n\nThat’s smart", ">\n\nI propose your issue isn't with college itself, but the government and culture surrounding college.\nFor example, tuition for college was massively subsidized before Nixon made sweeping cuts to it, in order to silence political dissenters from colleges.\nCollege education does provide valuable skills. It's predatory nature comes from legalized price gouging of tuition and needed materials. On top of this, the government profits on the loans it gives out for school. Not only are you required to pay taxes for life to fund education, but you're required to pay extra in the form of student loans+interest.\nColleges are aware of this and do profit on it. The worst of it comes in the form of politicians profiting on these loans (by owning private lending businesses, voting to increase their wages using taxes, requiring military service to join without massive debt then profiting on military action).\nIt's not the college doing this. It is a design of a proto-fascist state attempting to squeeze all value out of its lower classes. \nYou are becoming more aware of it and that's good.", ">\n\nPretty much an American thing. Very common for kids to take a year or two off elsewhere. Do what you wanna do and find the person you want to be.", ">\n\nI'd have to do research, but the only difference I'd make is to say either, \"It has become cruel and predatory,\" or, \"It has always been cruel and predatory.\" Tuition has soared, and predatory loans have replaced grants for poor students, but I'm skeptical there was ever a time college delivered all it promised. I think poor people saw college as a thing rich people did, so they thought if they did it they could get rich too, or at least less poor, but when you graduate you find the rich kids were just legitimizing a position that was always waiting for them, and you're still gonna have to strive and struggle.", ">\n\nDefinitely the latter", ">\n\n300k in loans if that 18 year old gets a PHD.\nMost bachelors are hella affordable. I paid for mine by working as a chinese food delivery driver part time, class of 2016.", ">\n\nI agree when it comes to the loans, total garbage.", ">\n\nParticularly when those 18 year olds are having to go into the kind of debt people who are buying houses go into. It’s not a reasonable expectation", ">\n\nI believe the pressure is actually a mix of permanent \"branding\" of a concept and a false illusion to reality.\n\"Going to college will get you a better paying job\"\nI know many and I'm sure many of you know folks who have these fancy papers going \"i r koolage stewdent\" and the person is working some crap job/temp till they find something that lets them use said piece of paper.\nA mix of schools and businesses (both work and loan company's) have either purposely or unpurposely set a form of gate keeping for \"better jobs\" and the only way to do said learning is to pay X$. Don't got the money? here sign this paper work putting you into heavy if not life long debt to learn this thing. No no ignore folks who have the degrees who even 10/20/30 years later are still paying it off cause the terms are not fair or in your favor. But you don't got a choice in lenders short of government aid but you better be poor or getting lots of scholarships. \nIt is beyond predatory and the fact the government is currently going \"these debts have cause decades of harm\" is proof they are really fucking stupid. Sadly the folks fighting it so hard is another unrelated topic. \nTo end this tho I share the same view on kids/\"new\" adults are forced into a position they shouldn't be due to a social structure that has proven detrimental for not just the individual but to the country as a whole.", ">\n\nI think you're conflating the decision of college with the decision of taking out student loans.\nI agree that an 18 year old should not be able to take out so much in student loans for a degree that everyone knew at the time wouldn't pay for itself. But I disagree that college is inappropriate for 18 year olds. 18 is a formative time in a person's life and college can be a good way to expose a person to many different perspectives and experiences that they otherwise wouldn't have an opportunity to experience.", ">\n\nThe problem isn't getting an education. The problem is;\n\nbeing convinced to go to overpriced universities which won't help you in the long run. Don't go somewhere for 100k to get a degree to be a high-school teacher\nBeing convinced to go after careers that won't make you money. Ive lost count of the number of friends who got degrees that can't be easily monetized and then they have to go back for more schooling.", ">\n\nNo. But there are different paths to success in college. From Community College, part time schedule, online, to full class load on campus. Parents and teens should make an honest assessment of what they can handle at 18. (Even a gap year)", ">\n\nNo one forced me to go to college. Went in very early 2000s.\n\nIt was the best option I had at the time, after working moderately hard in high school. Mostly, grant money paid for classes at a pretty good state university. I only ended up owing a little under 5k and that’s primarily because I had a few majors.\n\nThe other options were the military, trade school, or probably a minimum wage, none of those options were appealing to me, besides I could still do those things and have a 4 year degree. \nBut, I would’ve been terrified with those options only because of no fall back.\nI could’ve opened a business, but I can do that and did that while going to school. \nI’m also in a state where you can get a full ride with a 3.0. I did have a chance to go to a couple of higher end universities, but I know it could put my family and I in a tight situation. \nI think I actually took much more money than what I owed. And, actually loved college. Everyone always talks about their fondness of grade school. Elementary was ok, hated middle school and the first part of high school. It was awful \nWhat I will say about college- if you’re a terrible student or hated school, then you probably shouldn’t go. It only guarantees a job for fields that require extensive training and knowledge of a specific fields. Though, you have an opportunity to make your path to jobs or careers in college, while being there or taking proper steps for the future. \nThere’s your career services, electives, seminars, company recruitment, program recruitment, career development, etc. Some of the programs are so evil they pay your way to school. Oftemtimes, if you do well in college and have a wealth knowledge with impactful majors. You pretty much will have your pick of jobs.", ">\n\nIf student loans/debt wasn't a factor, would you still believe that \"it is cruel and predatory that we as a society pressure 18 year olds to go straight to college after high school\"?", ">\n\nNo not at all. I still don’t like that there is a stigma around those who do not go to college but I think the costs are nonsensical", ">\n\nThen it sounds like you don't actually agree with your own title to begin with? I don't know if they let you edit titles, but it might be good to put an amended title at the top of your main post that more directly opposes predatory loans and debt. And I can't disagree with you on that part. If I were 18 and wanted to take out a $100k loan to start an underwater basket weaving company I would get laughed out of the bank, and rightfully so. I don't have the credit to make such a poor decision with someone else' money. But if I take out $100k to get an underwater basket weaving degree, they'll happily screw me over for life.", ">\n\nI agree with lots of your point, so I’m going to challenge the idea that encouraging education itself is predatory.\n40 years ago, a person could put themselves through an undergraduate degree with a part time job, incurring minimal debt and paying it off quickly afterwards. Even if they never used that degree, they grew, learned things, and weren’t in decades of debt for it. \nThen policies changed around student loan debt and the cost of secondary education skyrocketed. Someone else who’s more educated in the subject can better speak on the nuances of why this occurred, but it fundamentally changed the landscape so that schools jacked up prices to the insane cost we see today. \nThis in my opinion is the part that’s predatory - folks who took advantage of the growing demand for secondary education. An educated society benefits everyone in it, and encouraging 18 year olds to broaden their minds and learn things while their brains are young and plastic is not inherently a bad thing. The predatory part is that we allowed some folks to stand in the way of education because they needed to make loads of money off of it. It didn’t start out that way.", ">\n\nPredatory 🤣🤣🤣", ">\n\nEver heard of predatory loans?", ">\n\nYes, but until today I had never heard of predatory higher education opportunities 🤣🤣🤣", ">\n\nThe loans are what is predatory, haha", ">\n\nIf you are 18 you are still in a study habit from school. Putting a gap year or two, three in between will wash that away and make it more difficult to start studying.\nLearning is easier when you're young, so it makes sense to do it as young as possible.\nHigher education is by all means a great time, where you constantly expand your worldview, knowledge, and pool of acquaintances. At the same time higher education offers plenty of opportunity for extracurricular activities, much more than a job would. I see no reason why getting a boring entry level job would be preferable.", ">\n\nI 100% am b3hind as many people going to college as they can. I believe it is more than just an education. However, 18 is a TERRIBLE time to go. After high school, most people needs a few years to gain a little real world experience and let their brain further developed. You should have experience with alcohol BEFORE college not during. \nYou shouldn't get married before 25 and you shouldn't go to college before 25.", ">\n\nIn my country kids considered fully adult once they turn 18, they can drink, smoke and they have all their rights. However I'd still love to take a little break before college but my family won't let me.", ">\n\nI will say that college is a great idea if you have the means. I personally couldn’t afford it, even with $20k in scholarships and fafsa I couldn’t do it. Some people have to work full time to survive, some have to care for disabled/elderly family members or younger siblings, or might have other obligations. We tell high schoolers that college is the only option, but it’s not feasible for everyone and I think it’s important to present alternative options", ">\n\nI truly believe it depends on said child. Some kids just know. They know what they want and have no problem going after. The rest of us should definitely wait until our frontal lobe is developed. I had zero clue. Figured it out by 30 but it's too late for me right now. ADHD is my downfall personally and money.", ">\n\nWe as a society don't necessarily do that. I'm a teacher and when taught in America, I (and the other teachers at my school) often pushed techs school and learning a trade over college.", ">\n\nYeah, I think pre college level schools should have a system that allows for the students to explore what interests them more. How is a person supposed to know what they want to do for college when they've never truly been given an opportunity to explore their interests? It's purposely done so that colleges can make more money off the people who don't know what they want.", ">\n\nSo I agree with you in people putting off university till a little after HS, though I wouldn't use the word predatory, its more like a false promise. A bachelor's degree is worth next to nothing in the US now because people are treating it as a fail-safe for people. I've met kids who are dumb as rocks in college and professors just pass them then they get out into the real world and take they can't do the actual job they talked for, because well their dumb as rocks... So they just eventually keep losing their job and work at some fast food place with tons of school debt. In this scenario you are correct. However, I do think that some people will benefit from school right-away. Women for one, will find the best job that pays the most for them in an educated field. Now this is where I will get major backlash, I know. But also if you are coming from a HS that doesn't have super good educational system (ei low graduation level, or good overall GPA) then your probably won't do well in college. There are the exceptions to that right, but as a statistic, those kids aren't cut for college just yet. It's better for them to go out into the world and gain experience that way and find a field they are good at/passionate about then go back to school. They will then hopefully be more mentally ready for the hardships that come with higher education", ">\n\nI went my first year, parents paying, and I felt bad because I wasn't ready to settle down and study. So, I went to work. I ended up working in construction and made a very good paycheck for a 18 y/o. I did this for about 10 years, and was a forman/supervisor for a successful company when I went back to school. By this time, I knew what my interests were and I paid my own way. \nI changed my career and my state degree in my early 30s didn't keep me from making a decent, competitive paycheck. And the 10 years of experience managing teams in construction had very translatable skills. I just went from blue to white collar, so just had to watch my salty language. :)\nSo, no, I don't think society pressure was enough to keep me from doing what I wanted. My path was not typical, and I'm doing just fine. (my wife may argue that last point.)", ">\n\nI mean it took me until age 24 to realize I was living my whole life wrong & I still don’t know what I wanna do with my life but I guess everybody is different & everybody develops & learns about themselves in a different time frame but I’d say an 18 year old doesn’t actually know what they want to do for the rest of their life", ">\n\nIt can be predatory. It can also be extremely liberating to be done with school at 22-25 years old. Working full time while going to school is an arduous prospect. Btw I believe slacking off for 2-3 years not accomplishing anything by age 21 is crippling to one’s chances of success.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I struggled a lot between 18-20 but I know that if I were taking that time while I’m school I likely would have failed out and wasted a ton of money", ">\n\nYup. It was culture for me. I went even though I had ZERO business doing so . If I would of taken a year or two and worked a real job. It would of taught me so much . Not only to respect what an education can give you. But also what I want to do with my life . Instead I went to college and just got swept away with life .", ">\n\nNope, it is not the \"pushing\" that is ridiculous/predatory/cruel, but the situation in the USA.\nIn Europe, it just feels like a secondary high-school so people don't feel \"pushed\". Heck, I am glad I started uni at 19 (yes, where I am we do HS until 19) and have not waited. I knew what I wanted since a long time ago and so do most people. And it is cheap. Everything is cheap. The only difference is that you are no longer with the parents. That's all.\nSo again, consider not the \"push\" being wrong, but what the conditions are. Your argument should be against the status of your uni system, not against students starting uni at 18.", ">\n\nYes, but given the status of the uni system, I think people should take more time before rushing into college to make sure they don’t take on a huge financial burden they might not be ready/prepared for", ">\n\nOnce again, in \"normal\" countries it's not that much of an investment. And also, it is parents that mainly pay for the cheap tuition and the living costs.\nMy point is that you should be angry at the fact that the uni system is not \"normal\" where you live, instead that young people are \"pushed\" into learning when they are in their mental prime.", ">\n\nI am not angry, nor am I angry at students going to college. I think given the US college system is bad, we should not push kids into school without them understanding the financial implications of their decision", ">\n\nI've been trying to tell this very thing to anyone that'll listen. Unless you know exactly what you want to do at the ripe old age of 18 and are prepared to put yourself in debt for years to come, don't go to college. Get a job and get some good life skills first. Learn how to be an adult and make adult decisions before you waste your money on an education that you probably won't even use. When you've figured out what is important to you and what you think you might want to do for a living, THEN go and get a degree.", ">\n\nHaha in this economy you need to be done with school by 12 so you can start saving to buy a house at 40. Goals", ">\n\nHi, you raised a lot of points, and I shall try to address as many as possible. You say that 18 yo cannot smoke. That is false in every state as well as every other country where smoking is not banned completely. As to drinking, I agree that it is hypocrisy to bestow upon 18 yo all the responsibilities of adulthood but withhold one of the privileges. I am unsure what the phrase \"barely able to vote\" means, you either can or you cannot.\nMoving on to your main thesis, which seems to me to be this: \"Uni saddles students with debt for many years to come, therefore 18 uo who are immature should not be able to make such decisions.\" In response to that I would firstly ask you to look at the alternatives. It is widely believed that the age of mental maturity is around 25. Would you have them work unqualified minimum-wage jobs for 7 years, and only afterwards go to Uni? Or would you expect parents to support them for an additional 7 years? Either way, they would be throwing away close to a decade of their lives, for the chance of making a better choice. It seems far worse than getting student loans, as they would only start working in their chosen profession at the age of 29/31, when all those who went to uni at 18 will have moved up the corporate ladder and made a significant dent in their student loans. Furthermore, it would be inconsistent to just restrict 18 yo from uni access, as you either treat them as adults or as children, therefore to be logically consistent you would need to restrict their access to driving licences, guns and voting, as all three can be extremely dangerous in the wrong hands.\nI think that the real solution to the problem is to stop giving out student loans to unprofitable degrees. Engineers, like myself, lawyers and doctors generally have far, far fewer problems with student loans than those studying history, literature or psychology. Therefore, to protect students from loans they will be unable to pay back, unprofitable degrees should operate on a pay-for-it-upfront model.", ">\n\nThey used to go off to war or to work on coal mines so college is a walk on the park.", ">\n\nI know this is buried, but if you see this, you need to understand that the lack of \"financial understanding\" that you're seeing here isn't necessarily your fault, nor any teenager's fault. It's your parent's duty and responsibility to guide you through these decisions. \nYou're feeling stressed that your father lost his job and his career might not be the same after this. That's a risk that your parents took on. As a father to a young teenager, my wife and I will take this responsibility on for her as well. We know the risks and we accept that responsibility. That's on us. We have put our name on the line for cars, homes, and most of all our children. \nI can make the same arguments that everyone else here has made, but I'll add that with a degree, you're only matched by 35% of the population. With a Masters degree, that turns into 13% of the population. You are dramatically decreasing your pool of peers with a degree, and you will see significantly less time without a job with a degree (on average).\nI'm a tradesman. My wife is a degreed worker. I made more money early in life and (as we are coming up on our 50th rotation around the sun) she is significantly out-earning me now. I expect to have a more difficult time finding work that pays well as I age as there's always someone who will do what I do for far less than I do it for. That means that I must continue my education to set myself apart from my peers who are young and hungry. It's more difficult to compete with a larger pool of people.", ">\n\nThe problem isn’t going into higher education at 18. In fact it’s easier to do that before you have a job and obligations.\nThe problem is saddling people with generational debt.\nEurope does not have that dilemma for instance.\nBut you do make a good point about trade schools.\nUnfortunately society as a whole sees the whole thing as « beneath them ». Trade school means you couldn’t hack it in normal school, so people don’t go (which is sometimes dumb, because those guys can make a lot of money).", ">\n\n\"The 'push' itself for college isn't cruel/predatory (even if there are loads of predatory practices on the financial side of things).\"\nWhat I mean by this is that the 'push' is generally caused by a swell of well-meaning advice: College was a great investment for lots of Boomers. Many who went straight to work (even many who did quite well for themselves) ended up with a bad back and wishing they had gone to college and gotten a desk job. Many who went straight to college felt like it opened a lot of doors early in their career that compounded well over the long run. On top of these anecdotes, there is plenty of government data out there showing earning projections for different educational-attainment levels that back up the anecdotes. All in all, when someone's experience was \"College worked out great for everyone I can think of!\" then \"I really think you should go to College!\" is usually well-intentioned advice given in-good-faith.\nThe fact that the financials around the post-secondary education industry became so vastly distorted compared to \"the good old days\" that blanket \"Go to college!\" advice becomes increasingly ill-advised is a tragedy but that doesn't make it malicious.", ">\n\nI don’t think the family members encouraging their kids to go to school are cruel, I think the loan companies are", ">\n\nOf course.\nBut it's not like people feel pressure to go to college because they have an innate natural desire to make loan companies happy. The pressures come from the expectations of people close to them - young people want to follow their trusted mentors' best advice.\nAll the predatory stuff is downstream of that pressure - exploiting the situation, yes, but not creating the situation.", ">\n\nI'm confused. Is the argument really that it's unjust to send kids (back) to school at 18, or that they can't drink and smoke?", ">\n\nA better argument would be that 18 year olds have received little to no education on financial literacy. A few hundred thousand in loans sounds like an insane amount but they may have little to no context as to how long that will actually take to pay off. The loans also could not be issued by any bank to an 18 year old for any other reason due to safe lending laws.\nAlso the issue here is the cost of college, not what age they go to college. It’s not really that much better that I wait until 25 so that I understand how badly I’m getting fucked over before doing it", ">\n\nIs it *just\" the cost of college, or is it pressuring 18 year olds to make a decision they may not have full context to understand? Should they go to college? Trade school? Gap year? Internship?\nShould an 18 year old feel rushed to go to college immediately after high school when they're not sure of what they want to do yet? Because if they decide they don't like the college path they've chosen, they'll still have to pay those loans off, but won't have a degree.\nPersonally I was pushed into making a decision ASAP, I had about a month after high school before I was being threatened with getting kicked out, so I chose trade school, didn't like it, wasn't good at it, wasn't a fit, but graduated for the sake of graduating and never worked professionally in that field. I still had to pay 14k in loans, which is no small amount for someone that young.\nIt's not so much the cost, but the value you get from the cost.", ">\n\nNo it's entirely the cost. The downside you described only exists because of the cost. If the cost wasn't there, then whats your downside? Oh no I'm 21 and have decided to take my life in a different direction?", ">\n\nPerhaps the discussion should be about asking an 18 year old to borrow large amounts of money. \nFor much of the developed world, going to college after high school is about studying, not taking on a lifetime debt.", ">\n\nIt’s the same in the USA; OP’s example of $300K of debt is a ridiculous exception to the norm. Average USA student debt at graduation is $29K. He’s off by an order of magnitude.", ">\n\nWell... it sounds like you're actually arguing that it's cruel that we make people pay for their college rather than providing it free like primary/secondary school. That's a very different view. \nThe reason it's encouraged to continue with higher education after high school is exactly because people's brains are less plastic after about age 25. It's not that you can't learn after that, obviously... but it does get progressively more difficult (edit: and therefore, to your apparent actual point, more expensive). \nSo yes, it makes complete sense if we want an educated populace (which we do, because the world is more complicated than it used to be), that people be encouraged to get that education young. It's just going to get harder and slower as you age.", ">\n\nBased on this I’m assuming your a teenager. First, noones getting student loans for 300k. Second, college is smart do it. Alternatively, you can just work at a gas station the rest of your life or try to make it as an influencer.\nMost of my friends that did not go to college and had the same thought process as you are currently having a hard time financially in their 30s.", ">\n\nI am a full time undergrad student but I wish I had been more financially literate and better prepared for the decision I was making prior to enrolling in a four-year university. I also think it is inaccurate and quite absurd to suggest that people without college degrees will become “influencers” and gas station workers when options such as trade and technical schools exist.", ">\n\n\nI wish I had been more financially literate and better prepared for the decision\n\nThis is an argument to support the fact that your education was inadequate prior to college, not an argument against college itself.\nYes, K-12 schools should teach a lot of life skills, including financial literacy, that would benefit all students in their future decision-making. What you'll discover as you get older is that you spent a lot of time in school learning stuff you will never use — time that could have been spent teaching you things that become hard lessons later on. School generally prepares you for more school, not life.", ">\n\nI don’t know what school you went to but I have never had a class in financial literacy in my entire schooling. I do agree that my education prior to university was inadequate, but it is not common to learn financial literacy in school", ">\n\nYes, I agree. It's not generally taught in schools. This is a problem. \nBut my point is, it's the real problem you're pointing to. Despite 13 years of education, you were not properly prepared to make these decisions that everyone knew were coming. The issue is not that there's pressure to continue education; it's that nobody prepares students for the financial decisions they're going to have to make in order to do so.", ">\n\nNo, that is not the real problem, although it is a problem. \nThe real problem is the cost of college in the first place.\nI don't know why no one is addressing this point. Maybe because it's not an actual reply to OP's point. But it's the actual answer. College is way too expensive. That's what is predatory. Higher education for its own sake is valuable. I want to live in a place where people value education, not just being a good worker bee as early as possible. This path should not be only available to the highest echelons of society. \nIt's not okay to tell people of any age that they should do trades because college is too expensive. Working in trades is hell on your body, and the average career length, not to mention career earnings, is much less than those who work in professional fields of any type.\nThe solution is fully funded post-secondary education for any and everyone who wants it.", ">\n\n\nI don't know why no one is addressing this point. Maybe because it's not an actual reply to OP's point.\n\nYes, that's why. This is CMV, so respondents are required to address OP's point and try to change their view. OP's title premise doesn't mention anything about the cost of college or debt, and the view stated in the text originally made assertions about 18 year-olds not having sufficient decision-making capacity.\n\nThe solution is fully funded post-secondary education for any and everyone who wants it.\n\nSure, but that's also an argument against OP's stated view that 18 year-olds should not be encouraged to attend college. \nFully funded post-secondary education is also already the norm in some countries, so depending on how we interpret OP's use of \"society,\" it may be irrelevant.\nBasically, by OP's own subsequent admission, they worded the post poorly.", ">\n\nConsidering OP's premise is that teenagers shouldn't be encouraged to attend college due to exorbitant costs, I think we can safely assume they live in the US.", ">\n\nFunny, bud. I am a full time college student but I do wish I had better understood what I was getting myself into so I could have considered other education options, taken my prereqs at community college, and generally just have been better educated in personal finance so that I would have had better direction", ">\n\nWhat do you consider the downsides of you going to college?\nI didn't go to university (what we call college here) so I have done the alternative that you're suggesting and I'm interested in hearing your opinion", ">\n\nI’m going to post a longer response but I generally think 18 year old are not well equipped to make the most out of their college experience, which does not make it its money’s worth", ">\n\nAn 18yo is a legal adult (I assume you're talking about the USA). They're denied access to a handful of vices, but otherwise have the full suite of legal rights and responsibilities of a 45yo. It seems weird to think that college or even student loans are more demanding or harder to understand than a full-time job and a mortgage.\nThe reason young people are encouraged to go to college is because it is generally a very good financial investment and offers a fairly gentle transition into adult life. It's a fairly low risk option with great potential upsides.", ">\n\nr/USdefaultism ?", ">\n\n\nlives paying back up to 300k in student loans.\n\nJust fix this problem. It doesn't seem like a smart idea of individuals to profit off the improved education of your population.", ">\n\nThe cruel and predatory thing is that universities charge so dang much for tuition. The cost of the issue, not encouraging kids to seek higher education.", ">\n\nIt’s often not the tuition that raises the sticker price of college. Room, Board, and fees are what have skyrocketed.", ">\n\nI think it’s all of the above, but the point stands regardless.", ">\n\n100%. Teenagers need to do the ROI on college. If you’re spending $100k on a degree that will start you at $35k a year, that is a bad investment.", ">\n\nIt's pretty nuts that in this day and age there are some countries so authoritarian that 18 year olds can't drink or smoke. It's also pretty nuts that there are some places where colleges aren't free at the point of entry, given the disastrous effects we know that has on social mobility.\nThe thing is we haven't really worked out what 18 year olds should be doing. They've finished school but because of automation there's not the unskilled labour there was and so for work we need trained and motivated 25 year olds not skilless 18 year olds. As for how we get trained and motivated 25 year olds, it's some combination of further education and apprenticeship and we haven't at all worked out the details yet and even if we did it probably wouldn't take 7 years. And what we've really not worked out at all is the equal opportunities bit where people of all backgrounds can end up with the skills to do the thing they're motivated to do.\nSo that's the medium/long term challenge. But until we sort that out if you can afford to go college is the least worst alternative. It's the closest thing we've got to a clearing house for helping people find the thing that motivates them and getting them on the path go getting skilled up in that field.\nPersonally? I'd bring back national service, minus the military bits. 2 years from 18-20 for teens to do public works in exchange for a pittance and so earn their free college from the state, and in the meantime grow up a bit and learn how to manage a budget and live the other side of the country from mum and dad (and take all the drugs and fuck everybody they meet). Then in exchange for that you get 3 years free tertiary education from 20-23 by which time you've got some idea what you're interested in and you've sown your wild oats and are ready to go to lectures. Tertiary can be vocational or academic according to your interest. And then 23-25 you're shuffled in to some form of master apprenticeship/paid internship programme.", ">\n\nGreat point!", ">\n\nI'd argue it's cruel and predatory that we as a society (if we're talking about the US, or other countries that don't have a more socialized model), charge money for education, period.\nThe only reason this above is a problem, is because we put a financial hurdle on something which we should be encouraging. After all, an older adult has far more things to worry about societally, and our society has not developed in such a way as to be optimally efficient towards self-betterment to the point where we truly enable people to better themselves, as that would require time, money, and resources that we generally impose upon the individual. (IE: It'd be tough for a 30 year old to learn from a college while having to maintain a modest US lifestyle, complete with car, apartment, food, utilities, and the job required to maintain all that.) \nWhen you've given up that lower education is somewhat meaningless, and oftentimes college is where the bulk of potential 'better jobs' come from, its as if you're being charged for future potential... without any guarantee that said future potential is ever actually seen. What if I get into being a solar or wind turbine technician, but some sweeping reactionary policymaking decides we're going back to oil and gas and coal again? What if I spend time learning about EV drivetrains, and then the market crashes and everyone stops making them? What if I get into art degrees and hone my skills, but then an AI script all but takes over any commercial viability my degree had? (Or accounting? Or for CT technician?) \nCollege works as it does because that further education is happening generally before a lot of these things have taken hold, and in ages past, college tuition was far cheaper, making it far easier for someone to potentially be able to pay for all the above and also afford tuition. In some places, State colleges were even free.\nI don't disagree that the way we have our system set up now is bad, but I'd argue its less because of college or higher education itself being a bad thing, and more about the ways in which we've created systems designed to extract wealth from people. Higher education should be a thing we encourage people to get into, we should absolutely want people to be able to access tools that enable them to become things we need for a healthier society. Putting large financial hurdles in front of them should be an obvious sign of unsustainability, and doing things like trying to make those debts stick through bankruptcy should be a clear sign of predatory behavior. \nSo if you're arguing for an easier accessibility to college education, without all the predatory claws of lenders and the greed of private institutions that're already sitting on multi-billion dollar trusts still having tuitions, then I guess I'm not really challenging your view enough. If the argument is that we shouldn't be pushing people into college period, though, then I'd be pushing back that it's our current perversion of higher education to be just another business in the US that's the problem. There's plenty of models in other countries that show we can have far more affordable colleges, or even free colleges to students, that do not require such financial commitment. In those countries, it isn't cruel and predatory, because they don't have the same broken jank that a system like the US one does.", ">\n\nYes yes yes! Not against education I’m against the greed", ">\n\nIs this an American thing I'm too European to understand?", ">\n\nYes. I apologize", ">\n\nNgl, didn't read the post BUT I went straight into college and dropped out my senior year because of burnout (at 19) and if I had waited a couple years that wouldn't have happened. So I agree.", ">\n\nYeah, I’m in my junior year and I’m completely over it. I feel much more supported by my community outside of college and have a true sense of belonging there. I have a career I’m really excited about and I feel that college is putting it on hold. I am probably going to finish my degree but ugh", ">\n\nYeah, I'm gonna finish my degree... Eventually. I need my mind to heal. I just joke and tell people I decided to take my gap year a little late but the fact that I dropped out haunts me everyday. Do your best to keep at it.", ">\n\nWhy should 18-yr olds be allowed to drink & smoke? Those negatively affect one's life, but learning more is beneficial. Sure you have to pay for it but professors don't teach for free.", ">\n\nI definitely shouldn't have gone to college right after high school. I lacked real world social skills, the necessary work ethic, the money management skills, and so much more I needed to succeed. Leaving college and spending a year working during covid really helped me alot with building up these skills. I was definitely a more well rounded person after my break from school\nI would highly recommend that anyone going to college who could use some money and experience get a shitty retail job before they go. It teaches you alot about work ethic, dealing with people and their bullshit, and so much more. It also scares you straight a bit, realizing what life without a degree could be like", ">\n\nThe only cruel part is the outrageous cost of college here in America", ">\n\nSorry, u/someonefr0msomewhere – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:\n\nDirect responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. See the wiki page for more information. \n\nIf you would like to appeal, you must first check if your comment falls into the \"Top level comments that are against rule 1\" list, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. \nPlease note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.", ">\n\nNo one pressured you into anything. I wanted to go to college right after high-school and I did just that. Others in my class didn’t and decided to do other things. Stop projecting how your feel about yourself “failure to accomplish much” onto others.", ">\n\nOkay", ">\n\nWell one big difference is that it isn't illegal to not go to college, it is just what is recommended. Alcohol and those other scenarios are actually illegal", ">\n\nWhy are you focusing on the financial impact and not the true source of the issue? There shouldn't be a significant financial impact to the student.\nContinuing education after high school is undeniably the best time to do so developmentally. A person's brain only becomes less malleable or able to absorb and retain information as they age. \nIf we removed the idea of student debt from the picture would tertiary education be either cruel or predatory? In many countries this is already the case.", ">\n\nWhile I understand the source of the financial impact on the student, there isn’t really anything we can do that will change that in the near future", ">\n\nSure there is, we can lobby our representatives for stronger financial support for students attending tertiary institutions of learning. \nDeflecting from the source of financial impact and placing it on people pressuring 18-year-olds into accruing student debt is defeatism, especially when the stats on median income support tertiary education being a net benefit for those students even factoring in significant accrual of student debt.\nThose people doing the \"cruel and predatory\" pressuring are being rational. It is on median worth it to go to college in America and it's not even close.", ">\n\nMaybe just make college affordable instead of encouraging them to wait until a period where they're unlikely to ever be able to devote their full attention to higher education.", ">\n\nWell when is it that college will be affordable? Never, lmao", ">\n\nThere are countries outside the us where college is affordable though.", ">\n\nFirst off, college is too expensive. Obviously, that is the main concern. It shouldn’t require massive loans for anyone. \nSecondly, as parents who see and are aware of the current higher-education shitshow, it is our responsibility to educate and prepare our kids. I have an 11 year old and she already knows college is unaffordable for us, and that she most likely will need to go to tech school for a while if she chooses that path. My kids are close in age and I try to teach them “team ideas” like they may want to share an apartment, and that’s probably a good idea since they already split chores and space in our home now. I also have a system where if they want something big, they can get a “loan” from me where they do chores to pay me back. If they don’t do them, they get charged a penalty. I clean houses and I’m teaching them how to do that on the side as well (I make about $40/hr). \nNone of this is ideal, but we have to do the best we can.", ">\n\nCollege is a good thing. Drinking and smoking aren't. It's like saying, \"It's cruel to force kids to eat vegetables even though they can't do heroine.\" Yes, college is expensive, but the average college grad makes about a million more dollars on their life than someone who just went to high school.", ">\n\nIt’s better than pointing I gun at them. I had a tendency to do that before cellphones. It always got their attention and they ended up driving much nicer.", ">\n\nWhat about countries that have free access to university?", ">\n\nYou didn't mention which society- there are several countries where you do not need to pay excessive loans for higher education.\nAdditionally, there are many schools in the United States which are more affordable. Many community colleges only cost a few thousand dollars per semester. This is still a substantial amount, but I think 10-20k in loans is far less cruel or predatory than 300 thousand dollars. The majority of public schools are going to be in 40-60k. Additionally, the majority of schools do not require you to pay for all four to six years in advance, it's semester by semester. So even at the more expensive state schools, the 18-year old adult is signing for 5-6k. I think this is a reasonable amount of money to be responsible for at that age.\nI would also argue that to a certain extent, 18 year old adults are mentally capable of understanding and signing contracts. The fact that society does not allow them to drink/smoke/rent a car doesn't have anything to do with their actual mental capabilities.", ">\n\nPapa said education is the only thing where money isn't wasted. Even if you owe $$$k, the critical thinking it leaves you is exponentially worthy if used properly. Critical thinking does not have to stay within the bounds of your profession.", ">\n\nCounterpoint: that only applies in the US.\nIn many other countries in the world where education is free and/or far more accessible it makes perfect sense. \nYour brain is better equipped to learn when you’re young. it’s a way to get into professions that you couldn’t start without studying. And there aren’t other life stresses like kids and careers in the way (usually). Studying young makes perfect sense.", ">\n\nThat is only in a few countries. In Argentina not only you gain the right(not the obligation yet) to vote at 16 you can drink and smoke at 18, you also gain the obligation to vote at 18 (yes, is mandatory to vote, if you dont you have to pay a small fine).\nTo add college is free so its a no brainer to go to college and start your degree.\nAnother reason to do college that fast its because its a bit easier to study if you come directly from high school. The pandemic made it harder for me to study because I lost the routine of going to class and the time spent there.", ">\n\nPersonally If I had taken a year or so off after high school I’m not sure I would’ve gone back to college. I was still in the school/education mindset and it would’ve been hard to get back into it. Even after I graduated with an undergrad degree someone mentioned going back for a graduate degree, and there would jsut be no way.", ">\n\nAll by design. If you wait til you're 30 to move out on your own and start a family, they're losing $$$$ on your mortgage and college housing expenses for those 10 ish years. I know some people stay home for college to save money, but most are moving out at 17/18 and going into debt immediately.\nWe can also talk about how they use the media and propaganda to break up homes.\nIt's all about $$$$", ">\n\nSo? Legalise drinking and smoking at 21. Hell that's legal at 16 in a lot of countries", ">\n\nJesus Christ 18 year olds can go to war and you’re saying it’s cruel to give them an education?", ">\n\nNo that’s really not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying it’s cruel that they have to incur this amount of debt to receive an education", ">\n\nIs it also problematic that we don't let 14 year olds decide to drop out of high school? And it's not like college is in anyway mandatory, it's just the next stage of school after high school. You don't have to go, it's just a very good idea for you to. As for the whole \"think about what they're missing out on\", I would be much more worried about what they're missing out on by not going to college.\nAlso, the comment about 300k debt is just so entirely beside the point. 99.9% of college students don't ever go anywhere near that level of debt, and those that do are usually going to law-school/medical school. Regardless, if we think this is a problem the obvious solution is to make college more affordable, not encourage people to forgo college. I also don't see why this decision is anymore serious than any other sort of decision we allow 18 year olds to make (to get married, to join the military, to start a business/get a job, etc.). I don't see why college is so special.", ">\n\nYou are conflating together two separate concepts. One is going to college at 18 years old, an age that is fairly universal for collegiate studies. The other is going into debt to attend the college of their choosing.\nThe latter is a choice which can certainly have long term poor consequences. Or not. One does not have to attend and fully self-fund a private education at an out-of-state institution. If one's grades and achievement is not sufficient to reduce that cost to something reasonable, then one should look at other opportunities. And that is a life lesson as well.", ">\n\nYes, you are correct. However, given this is how it is in the US, I think that it is probably smart to hold off a bit on immediately going into school", ">\n\nThat should definitely be an option. I remember an engineering lab partner who was in his thirties. He went back to school later in life and he was one of the best students I ever worked with. He had a lot of real work experience and I learned as much from his habits and traits as I did from the class.", ">\n\n\nWe actively encourage kids to place themselves into binding contracts\n\nWhat universities force you to sign \"binding contracts\"? Are you under the impression that they will pursue legal action if you drop out after one semester or something?\n\nof their lives paying back up to 300k in student loans.\n\nThe majority of schools cost a tiny, tiny fraction of this. The only possible way of getting that much debt would be to get multiple/extended degrees from one of the most expensive schools or just blowing money away on dumb stuff. Which 18 years olds can also do. Why should an 18 year old be able to buy a 50k car but not spend 10k on tuition to a top school?\n\nHow is an 18 year old, who is legally barely capable of anything\n\n18 year olds in most countries/states can do just about everything a 50 year old can save for a few small exceptions. They are legally an adult in 99.9% of ways. They can enter into contracts, make large purchases, sign a lease, sign up for car payments, get a mortgage, vote, become a legal guardian etc.\n18 year olds can spend a ton of money on just about anything, and spending it on college is one of the smartest ways to drop 10-30k.", ">\n\nI just want to know where you live that an 18-year-old can't smoke. Isn't the legal age to buy cigarettes (and weed in Colorado) 18?", ">\n\nNope. 21 everywhere", ">\n\nWell I'll be damned. A lot has changed since I was 18, apparently. I mean, it HAS been a minute.\nAs for the question CMV in question - I'm not sure that clarity necessarily comes with age, but it would definitely be nice to have the option to \"start over\" in your 40s when you maybe have a better idea of what rings your bell. But what would I have been doing between 18 and 40? Living at home with my mom? I guess my point is that \"adulthood\" has to start somewhere and for some arbitrary reason we picked 18...", ">\n\nI think your way of thinking is very America centric which fair that’s where you grew up. \nBut college is definitely not that expensive everywhere. And many many people can’t really wait around to be sure of what they wanna do as they have to earn to survive. \nCollege and getting to do what you please is a luxury that many don’t have. \nNot saying you can’t take your time or do something else but don’t think that it’s an issue everyone faces.", ">\n\nYes I am sorry I’m ranting about America", ">\n\nIts cruel and predatory in the sense there are so many pitfall degrees out there. It's not nessesarily predatory on the people telling you to go to college so much as it is on the institutions extracting cash from students who go because they are told to go at every level.\nIt's entirely possible you go into college, get a degree, and just become a debt slave because you entered a degree program that has virtually no employable skills. \nIt's not nessesarily the fault of people who tell you to go and went pre 2008 because there weren't so many pitfall degrees and it wasn't so bad loan wise either.", ">\n\nBecause college benefits them long term, while drugs literally kill them??? \nI do think it is wrong to make people feel bad for NOT going, but to simply encourage them to keep the ball rolling is to hope for the best for them. Though I do think more emphasis should be on encouraging them to simply find their own way to success (whether it be college, trade school, or being a hippie surfer dude living in a van). Happiness SHOULD be how we measure personal success in an ideal society, but we live under the iron fist of capitalism, so money is ALL that matters if you want to survive here, let alone be happy.", ">\n\nYes, yes it is.", ">\n\nWell the problem is that \"pressure\" is in the form of college education being seen as the only secure method of social maintenance, let alone social advancement. \n18 year olds might not understand the specific legalese, but they know pretty dang well that it's some form of post high school education or being relegated to either minimum wage or higher because of hazard pay conditions lifestyle until they \"think better of it.\"\nThat pressure ain't societal, it's economic, parents will stop pushing kids into degree paths when a degree is no longer all but required for any first seen path to a decent standard of living, meaning companies have to stop requiring it for jobs that don't need it, which means that the feds would need to standardize and monopolize job applications to force companies to comply with not requiring bachelor's degrees for jobs that don't need it, because the only way the whiny middle manager butt munchers would ever is with the threat of a prison sentence for hiring discrimination hanging over their head.", ">\n\nHow about we lower the drinking and smoking age instead? People who are 18 are adults who are capable of making adult decisions. That includes where to go to college, what major to choose and how much to spend. It isn't cruel or predatory for 18 year olds to go to college, it's been happening in the US en masse for nearly a century.", ">\n\n\nWe say that this is because their decision making faculties are not yet fully developed so they need to wait.\nSo where is this logic when it applies to college?? \n\nSince their decision making faculties are not fully developed society makes many decisions for them. They decide that they cannot drink or smoke.\nOnly about 1/3rd of young people go to college. For those 1/3rd we decide that college is a good investment.\n\nHow is an 18 year old, who is legally barely capable of anything, understand the true implications of such a decision? \n\nan 18 year old can understand this. you'll rack up, on average 37k in debt and on average make 36k extra per year. (according to cursory google searches).\nThere are predatory schools out there, private for profit schools which produce poor outcomes for unfairly large tuitions. Pressuring a kid to go to a predatory school is obviously predator, but your local state school is almost certainly a good investment for anyone who is academically strong.\nfor the 2/3rds of kids who academics are not strong enough, we generally recommend other paths. Trade schools, 2 year degrees, apprenticeships, etc.", ">\n\nNo one forces you. I took a few years off in between while serving in the military.", ">\n\nfact is, education is very very difficult. it seems easy when you are young because you literally do it every day for 6 hours and you do it baby steps at a time. so if you were to stop for 1 year, most people would not be able to go back to that old grueling life style of education. that's why college must be nonstop right after high school. it's not predatory. nobody is making you go at 18, you can go at 19. most don't do it because their parents know it's bad.", ">\n\nIs your issue with college? \nOr with the cost of college?", ">\n\nMomentum. If you take a break from school, you’ll find it exponentially more difficult to return. You’re being “encouraged”, not forced. Get schooling out of the way, then get on with life….", ">\n\nAnyways, here are some responses I have to some comments I’ve seen a lot of. \n1: college students fresh out of high school are more likely to continue to grind, therefore making completing a degree easier for them than it would be for an older adult with other responsibilities outside of school. \nI completely agree with this point! It is definitely easier to complete school right from high school because it is what is familiar to them. \nI think the problem is that a lot of individuals are “grinding” without an overarching goal, which oftentimes leads to some sort of existential crisis and burnout. “Sophomore blues” don’t exist without a reason. I think it is easier for people to do what they must when they have clear goals in mind. It is already starting to take the average undergrad 5 years to complete a degree due to changing majors and academic leave. People who know what they’re there to do usually make more use out of their experience and have more discipline. But yes, it can definitely be harder to keep up with the pace while juggling more responsibilities.\n2: this is an American problem. \nTrue, and we envy you! It is definitely wise for US citizens looking to go to college to look into doing their schooling abroad these days (even though I understand you might not want us lol). \n3: 300k is inaccurate\nYeah, my bad. I’m definitely in the wrong there. \nSomething I will throw in there, though, is that many college graduates are starting to go to graduate school with the belief that it will bring them financial stability, which oftentimes easily pushes tuition fees past the 100k mark. \n4: the return is better with a college degree\nYes, many studies point to this. However, depending on your career choice, getting started as young as possible may serve you better for future returns. \nSomeone wrote something about how people aren’t going to college to do their “influencing” careers (or something with crypto). This is not what I mean by a career—I am talking about a career path with steady income and employment that is not based on some component of luck in order to make it big. \nWhen it comes to four year colleges, I am also talking about how we don’t inform teens on precautionary measures they can take to reduce their debt—I don’t mean that teens should completely avoid college. Students can take prerequisite courses at community colleges in order to avoid taking these same classes at a higher cost at a college or university. We don’t really help teens find ways they can lessen the blow of loans, and yeah, I do find that kind of cruel. \n5: I think it’s unjust that 18 year olds can go to college but can’t smoke. \nNo, I just find it interesting that we think 18 year olds aren’t responsible enough to make many decisions (those were examples, maybe bad ones) yet it is completely normalized for 18 year olds to take on significant amounts of debt for schooling. When it comes to many other matters, the consensus is that 18 year olds are too naïve or unaware of what they are doing to the point of which we actually bar them from taking various actions to protect them. We tend to think 18 year olds have a very poor gauge of money and its value. \nSomeone wrote a good point that 18 year olds are able to make other financial decisions such as taking out loans on cars, marriage, and applying for credit. My response is that these decisions are, for the most part, actually highly discouraged for 18 year olds to make. People generally think that 18 year olds should avoid taking out loans on things they can’t afford/repay and most 18 year olds who buy cars only buy them outright. I don’t know a single person who thinks getting married before 25 is acceptable, and credit limits are incredibly low for 18 year olds because most of them make little to no income. Therefore, I find it odd that society encourages teens to take on student debt (a loan that, for the most part, the repayment of is uncertain) and view those who do otherwise as “not caring” for their future. Kids in college who are paying money and don’t care about their future are making a far worse choice. \n6: going to college puts you around good influences and gives you plenty of networking opportunities. \nI mean, sure I guess? You can find bad people anywhere, and I wouldn’t call the binge drinking or hazing cultures that take place at colleges influential. In fact, at many of these wealthy institutions kids do a lot more drugs than most people outside of college who can’t afford boatloads of coke. \nAlso, this idea that the “good people are in college” comes from the same sentiment that stigmatizes teens who do not attend college. Also, I think it’s pretty weird that people seem to think that successful networking is only done in college. You can form connections to anyone anywhere, really (also, as someone who is around a lot of people who call making friends “networking”, it seems pretty superficial). \n7: people figure themselves out in college. \nThis is subjective, and there are many less expensive (maybe even free!) ways to develop your sense of identity and goals in life. Speaking for myself, I figured out my direction in life entirely outside of university and college feels like a fever dream. I can’t give an objective response to this point but I don’t agree that adolescents can only “find themselves” in this bubble that is quite detached from real life. \nOverall, what I’m saying is that college is becoming less and less the “right choice” for a lot of people: the degree market is oversaturated, the undergraduate unemployment rate is growing, and job security is rapidly on the decline. I think these reasons make a good case for teens to explore alternative options such as trade schools (job growth out of trade schools are growing rapidly) and rethink whether college is pivotal or not to their personal and financial success. Yeah, I do find it pretty cruel that we throw kids into making these decisions when they are, for the most part, ill-informed. It’s especially messed up when we all kind of know that college tuition in the US is fucking ridiculous and a bachelor’s degree doesn’t hold the same value it used to. \nMy apologies for the typos, I’m writing this from my phone\ntldr: worded post wrong, against loans and not so much school, but hate the stigma around not going to school", ">\n\nYour title suggests that you take issue with the education, but really what you're talking about is debt. Presumably, you don't think that societal pressure to attend college would be bad if it were free, like it is in many countries, right?\nMy point is that some people will get free or heavily subsidized higher education and some people's families can afford to pay for college without taking out loans. If we don't allow the less fortunate people (those who have less money or live in places where college is more expensive) to take out loans to fund their education, then they'd be placed at an even greater disadvantage. The loans are a way of leveling the playing field.\nThat being said, there really does need to be some reform in the way higher education is financed in the US.", ">\n\nI agree. I changed my major twice, graduated and only now realized I want to do a complete different thing", ">\n\nEveryone’s different. For me, i needed to keep momentum or id fall apart", ">\n\nThat’s true. I was so discombobulated—I needed to understand what I was doing there first", ">\n\nI get why, when you have a house to pay for and a job, you dont really have the time. And if you managed to have a kid, even worse. Less people would probably go to college if they didn't go right away. Not to mention, being away from school for 4+ years, you likely forget a lot of things you learned from hs.\nThough I didnt go right away, and I know many who didnt.", ">\n\nMy question is - if not continuing education, then what?\nNo point or great ability to start a career right after high school. If you feel you'll likely end up in college, why start a career that you'll end up having to leave?\nIf not working, parents are footing the bill for their 18 year old to do - what? If they're going to pay for cost of living I would think the preference would be for that living to be WHILE pursuing education, not just teaching them to live off someone else's dime.\nThe gap year for travel and soul searching only works if the 18yr of has saved up for it and/or if parents foot the bill - which again, as a parent myself - I'd much rather pay for college than for a wordwide hostile tour.\nYes, debt isn't great and 18 is young, but I have yet to hear a better alternative", ">\n\nNo it’s not. You have a finite number of good years to be able to have the energy to learn your trade to a high level of competence. Past your early to mid 30’s things get harder because you will likely pick up commitments with your personal life plus work. People need to experience a lot of things quickly- like in about 5 years tops and then commit to learning and executing. That’s kind of 18-23. After that , you’d want to have at least an idea of what you want to do with yourself and commit to it. Keep on putting off a business idea, a trade, a career- whatever it is you like the sound of- and it will eventually be late enough in the day that you will be more likely to give up than to press on. \nThere’s stories about guys who’ve started successful businesses etc in their middle age (Ray Kroc from McDonald’s was about 50 when he made it big) but those are only the exceptions, not the rule.", ">\n\nI honestly believe the inverse. Kids are in school for TOO long. Think about it. You have kids spend 12 years of their lives with free mandatory education then by the time they are working age they are unable to contribute to any specialized workforce without a significant financial contribution and MORE education! In our highly specialized society kids have no wiggle room in regard to the timeframe in which they can pick a skill. I think we need to emphasize specialization much earlier on and allow kids to experiment and gain experience while their education is government sponsored.", ">\n\nThis whole argument falls apart in the removal of student loans. \nWhich of course is predatory. \nBut it's not predatory to expect 18-19-20 year olds to make decisions for themselves.", ">\n\nWell, it’s not as if the student loans are going to be removed, so I don’t exactly see how this critical point can just be taken out of the argument", ">\n\nWhat I mean is the issue you have seems to be more with student loans, and less of the expectation that 18-19-20 year olds to make lasting decisions on their life. \nThe cost of college can be easily mitigated by:\n\n\nScholarships\n\n\nCollege Funds \n\n\nCommunity College/4-Year college hybrid\n\n\nWhere you live, especially since the predatory industry is uniquely American\n\n\nProbably some others I'm neglecting to mention. \n\n\nSo yes, student loans are the critical point to your argument, but that's kind of my point.", ">\n\nCapitalism, the earlier kids go to get higher education, to get a job and pay taxes and such the faster government can get more money", ">\n\nIs this an American issue I’m too European to understand?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\n:(", ">\n\nBut if you weren't in debt up to your eyeballs you would demand fair working conditions and reasonable compensation.", ">\n\n1- please save this and Revisit once you're 30. 2- No, its 100% LOGICAL to keep going and NOT take a break! Id bet that less than 5% of “break year kids“ ended up becoming successful as quickly as their peers that went straight to college! 3- what exactly do u NEED to do on break, that you cant do in college? (😉ahhh nothing but f up right? Lol) 4- kids under 25, ESPECIALLY under 18 need parental guidance--hence why rental car companies dont trust 24yr olds😭)", ">\n\nValid", ">\n\nIf there was some kind of assessment to see if kids are truly ready (emotionally, psychologically, life experiences) for the responsibilities and challenges of college.\nSome kids do a year of travel, but most don't have money for that. I think a \"between high-school & college bootcamp\", that tries to teach kids who didn't have a lot of experience being out on their own would be helpful.", ">\n\nIt is not cruel to encourage young people to better themselves. Whether it is recommending going to college, acquiring life skills, doing a trade, getting a job or any other method really. Bettering yourself while you are young is generally going to lead to better outcomes. People who encourage young people to improve themselves are not being cruel.", ">\n\nThat is not what the post is saying", ">\n\nIt's what the title and original sentiment of op was. It's the most extreme part of the belief, which is why I chose to challenge it.", ">\n\nI believe every 18 year old should do 2 years of community (ameriserve) or military service.", ">\n\nThanks for the insight", ">\n\nCollege is the most traumatic thing that can happen to anyone, and (if I ignore all your apologies) you are right. No young person deserves that amount of pain. My mum, who didn’t go to college, is already telling my 5yo nephew that he should. When he is closer to the age of finishing high school, I will set him straight, instead of brainwashing him from such a young age.", ">\n\nOver 300 comments on this post and you didn't award a single delta? Nobody changed or adjusted your view in any way?", ">\n\nI have spent a lot of time responding but I will read through.", ">\n\nIn Germany it‘s very common to do a gap year where you go abroad and work a little bit. New Zealand is quite popular for this.\nIt helps you to figure stuff out. And the university itself is only like 600€ per year, so that helps too. In that situation it makes sense to start early, as it‘s easiest to continue your study routine.", ">\n\nI'm writing from an Israeli perspective. \nIn Israel, the accepted route is this one: at the age of 18 we go to the army to serve for 2-3 years (sometimes more). after that, we usually go for a long trip, something like 4 months-1 year around the world (usually we go to South America, India, or to Southeast Asia). and only after that, at the age of approximately 22-23, we go to college. \nAs an Israeli I think it makes much more sense.", ">\n\nSo the student loan problem can really be predatory so I’ll concede that but financial ignorance can generally be just as predatory across any age group. Some of the financial statistics out there are pretty wild. That’s not to cheapen this but to point out that generally as a country seemingly not making horrible financial decisions can be difficult for us.\nBiggest point I wanted to dig into was the idea of a student not knowing what they wanted to do. While anecdotal I’ve spoken to thousands of people in a professional capacity and have only met a handful that specifically wanted to do something then strived to accomplish it. For many people career choice was a combination of earning potential, passing course load and the work itself not boring them to death. My point is many older people didn’t suddenly learn what they wanted to do. Many tried a few things and narrowed it down. I studied accounting in college and tried it for 2 years and determined it wasn’t for me lol. I reinvented myself would going to college and do something pretty different now. I’ve met countless people with similar stories from all over the place and most didn’t go back to school. I’ve met plenty of trades people that would absolutely do something else if they could and earn a similar income.", ">\n\nAgreed in that many 18 years olds have no clue what they want to do.\nHowever I'm assuming you're based in America because of the no drinking/smoking thing. But I'm guessing you do it anyway?\nIn some ways uni students are better off than British ones. You get to study loads of subjects and 'choose your major' and generally experiment with loads of classes. In the UK you pick your subject and that's it for the whole 3 years unless you fancy your chances starting again. At least you guys get a bit more choice.\nAnd who forced you to go? You decided to go to uni. You may have felt like you had no other choice but you didn't have to go.", ">\n\nWhile many people suggest the issue lies in not educating the youth about things like loans and adulting in general, I’m still 100% with you that it is cruel to enforce a social norm for all 18 year olds to go to college immediately because they “should”. Even if finances aren’t a big concern, the American Education System, specifically in higher education such as college and grad school have many faults, and it shouldn’t be expected of everyone to partake in that corrupt system, even if they are fully educated and aware of the student loan process.", ">\n\nThe problem is not pushing kids to go to college right after high school. That's the best time in life to get further education. \nThe problem is that, specifically in USA, education stops being free after High School. \nYou're on the right track, that putting college graduates in such immense debt is predatory, but you're barking up the wrong tree. Instead of pushing kids away from college, you should be pushing for free college education.", ">\n\nSociety benefits from having a more educated population...so it is a good thing to push young adults toward more education. At the same time, it is important to note that college isnt for everyone, as you mentioned...but I think that that young people should give it a shot and become a bit more educated. Sure, they could graduate and work at a store and try to work themselves up the corporate ladder...but eventually they will hit a education barrier. Loans allow people to go to school and give it a try. They can pay it back with their higher earnings post graduation once they become what they wanted to...whether that is a Engineer, Programmer, or Management. The ones that struggle are the ones that dont realize that what you study in school matters...a lot. Taking loans and using that money to study something not productive and in demand is a recipe for struggle.", ">\n\nThey need to be a adult at some point.", ">\n\nBeing an adult ≠ going to college", ">\n\n\nSomeone wrote a good point that 18 year olds are able to make other financial decisions such as taking out loans on cars, marriage, and applying for credit. My response is that these decisions are, for the most part, actually highly discouraged for 18 year olds to make. People generally think that 18 year olds should avoid taking out loans on things they can’t afford/repay and most 18 year olds who buy cars only buy them outright. I don’t know a single person who thinks getting married before 25 is acceptable, and credit limits are incredibly low for 18 year olds because most of them make little to no income. Therefore, I find it odd that society encourages teens to take on student debt (a loan that, for the most part, the repayment of is uncertain) and view those who do otherwise as “not caring” for their future. Kids in college who are paying money and don’t care about their future are making a far worse choice.\n\nI have a couple of issues with your response to this argument.\nWhile it is highly discouraged to take out large loans on a car, take out a large line of credit, get married, etc, I think you massively downplay the incredible returns that college has on average. Over the course of a lifetime, college graduates make $900,000 (for men)/$630,000 (for women), than high school graduates. (source) For comparison, the average 4 year debt for a bachelor's degree is about $31,000 (source) . \nTo your point about repayment being uncertain, when you look at the data on the subject, student loan delinquency is a minority case and those who don't complete their degree are more likely to be delinquent. About 8% of those who complete their bachelor's degree are student loan delinquent. (source)\nSo, the reason why we don't encourage the other things that include large loans and encourage college instead is because 1) a car doesn't increase in value and is generally not an investment and marriage can be an investment but most people after high school do not have a stable enough income stream to make it work. Other types of loans that 18 year olds can take out just aren't investments with the same type of returns that college has.", ">\n\nDon't like my opinion? Like these little petty games? Then it seems my time would be more beneficial for me spent somewhere else. Enjoy yourself and your agenda.", ">\n\nWhat?", ">\n\nNot all countries are like the US where post-secondary education costs can be extortionate. In many European countries, post-secondary education is either free-of-charge or the annual cost is low enough to not be a debt trap (e.g. in the Netherlands it's less than 3000 euros annually). \nIn those countries, is it cruel/predatory to encourage a post-secondary path immediately after graduating high school?", ">\n\nYou know what it means to lack a sense of humor, right?", ">\n\nMaybe a year of service, military, or nursing homes, or national parks, etc mandatory at 18.", ">\n\n\nthey can’t drink or smoke\n\nThey should be able to drink; making the limit 21 was a way to reduce underage drinking in high schools. Underage drinking happens in college too, since the limit is 21, but that's OK because 18-year-olds drinking isn't actually a problem. It's high schoolers shouldn't be drinking. As for smoking, it's a similar idea here: don't let high schoolers smoke, and this will cause fewer people to be smokers later in life. You don't magically gain the ability of judgment when you're 21; the government just couldn't justify raising the age any higher without just making tobacco illegal. And it's working; a lot fewer people smoke now than when I was a kid.\n\nThey are barely able to vote and don’t gain too many legal privileges until they are actually 21 years old.\n\nThat's not true. The only one that's actually relevant here in terms of legal \"privileges\" is the ability to buy alcohol. The ability to buy tobacco is stupid and nobody should be doing it in the first place, so who cares what the age limit is? 18-year-olds are legal adults: they can live on their own and make their own decisions, they are treated as adults in contract law, sexual relations, and criminal law, they can join the armed forces, etc. It's completely reasonable for an 18-year-old to enter into a long-term loan.\nWhat's not reasonable is for college to cost that much to the student. College itself is very good and it's definitely the correct place for 18-year-olds to go after high school. But costs are simply ridiculous. All public college should be completely free and high-quality. There should be a nationwide system of public universities with competitive admissions -- you know, like basically every other country. Saddling people with lifelong debts is basically unconscionable, but it's not like raising the age at which you do this would help really anyone at all (unless it's for something like a mandatory year or two of service before college, where \"service\" doesn't have to be military necessarily).", ">\n\nJoin the military. It’s not hard . Do a 4 years , make friends for life and end up getting tuition paid while they also pay you to be a full time student . \nWorking on my bas now and it will feel hundreds of times better when I finish knowing mommy and daddy didn’t pay for it", ">\n\nBut I don’t want to" ]

[ "There's nothing inherently wrong with continuing higher education after high school. It's arguably the best time to do so before you have other financial or social responsibilities that would prevent you from being able to dedicate yourself to it.\nThe problem is that everything in our society costs too much. In the past, you could pay your own way through college on a part time job. Hell, you could even buy a car and a house and raise a family on an entry-level wage. The fact that college requires crippling debt is a symptom of an economic failure in society toward the working class, not an inherent issue with a college education. Even factoring that into account, it's still usually better to go to college.", ">\n\nThe average debt at graduation is $29K. Basically a car loan in return for 30-50 years of career benefits, including higher pay, lower chance of unemployment, and preferential hiring.", ">\n\nWhere are you getting that statistic from? Just the housing and meals in my area for a college student is over 12 grand a year, and that doesn't include any tuition.", ">\n\nTo be fair housing and meals is an expense you'd have anywhere if you move away from parents", ">\n\nSure, but if you move out of your parents house to work full time, vs putting it into high interest debt or chipping away at a part time job is a big difference.\nI just calculated in state and out of state tuition for the school I went to, and it puts the rough estimate of yearly costs at 26k and 48k, respectively, for tuition, room and board.\nIt's a state school.", ">\n\nStaying in state is a huge cost savings for sure.", ">\n\nYup, still about a six figure debt if you don't work or get scholarships though, cost of college is insane. I went through the military, and it's sad that it's the only cheap way for decent schools.", ">\n\nMy state school was a bit cheaper although not by much - prob about 22k/yr for tuition and board. Then there were a couple small scholarships was able to find for $500-$3k each.\nI think that price for college is about the max that it's \"worth\". Otherwise getting into over six figure debt isnt a great way to start. Not to mention all of the people who find out they don't even want to use their degree.", ">\n\nYup. I got an engineering degree out of it, but for anything that's not guaranteeing a job of 80+ out of school definitely needs to be brought down on the cost of tuition", ">\n\nIsn't the real issue here the limited understanding of the impact of large financial decisions at 18 rather than anything about college? If a kid comes from a wealthy family that will pay their way, why shouldn't they consider college? If our society subsidized college making it relatively \"free,\" why shouldn't they consider college? The basic idea is that there are other considerations and solutions rather than focusing on people's age.", ">\n\nYou could argue that even if college were free it might not be the right path for everybody, but I suppose one could drop out in that case. Still, I think people should be able to make these kinds of decisions for themselves without feeling social or familial pressure one way or the other.", ">\n\nThe opportunity cost for college is at its lowest point right out of high school. That is the main reason to go then.", ">\n\nYep - if you’re going to go at all, that time immediately after high school is when your remuneration at any job will be at its lowest point, so you’re best applying yourself then. Also, you’re the most-likely to have the least responsibilities/obligations at this time (kids, mortgage, marriage) than any other time in your life.", ">\n\nIt's also when your brain is the freshest. It's just gonna get more and more sluggish after age 20.", ">\n\nYep - your 20s are when you should be applying yourself to learning as much as possible (and that doesn’t only mean in college - lots of ways to learn things). And in your 30s mastering a craft.", ">\n\nYes, very anti-US. I envy you guys", ">\n\n\n\nCollege is optional. Nobody has to go at all. Anyone who chooses to go, should be smart enough to research their choices and the implications of student loans. \n\n\nGap years are so common that most colleges allow incoming students to defer enrollment their first year. \n\n\nA $300k price tag in the US is for private colleges. State college average cost for 4 years is $125k. In some states like NY if your family makes under $125/year tuition is free. Community college is far less at $5k a year. And all of this depends on your income level and how much financial aid you receive. This is all information that is publicly available. If you choose to attend a private college you can’t afford, see my first point.", ">\n\n\nCollege is optional. Nobody has to go at all. Anyone who chooses to go, should be smart enough to research their choices and the implications of student loans. \n\nIt is getting a lot better and things are swinging back to where trades arent being discouraged, but there was a time period where it was college or bust and that was the message that was pushed hard when I was in high school", ">\n\nSame here. But trade schools were designed to keep low income people out of colleges. Have you ever seen a rich person digging ditches? Most of the options seem male-oriented and you have to be in good shape. And dentists and docs can't be made in trade-school", ">\n\nI'll agree they are male oriented, but you don't have to be in shape to be an electrician, plumber, welder, etc", ">\n\nWhen I was in high school (class of 2017), we had military recruiters - quite regularly; they'd set up a booth in the cafeteria at lunch and give out little prizes if you could do 10 burpees or whatever - but no college recruitment, ever. Just to clarify, would you say the same reasoning applies to pressuring them into any sort of binding decision like that?\nThat aside, I would point out a few factual considerations. I don't know if they'll be decisive, but on the chance that they could be:\n\nTypical debt on graduation, for those who have any, is about $30k; $300k would be more like the sticker price (for four years) of an expensive private school.\nChanging their mind about career doesn't necessarily mean more time in college; most majors are applicable to many professions, unless they want to go into a few licensed fields, and changing majors in the first two years often has minimal penalty anyway.", ">\n\nPrecisely. The idea that college is job training is simply wrong. Only a few majors directly lead to jobs; nursing, engineering, and architecture being the ones that come to mind. The rest are all academic disciplines; math, English, literature, history, government, political science, chemistry, physics, biology, psychology, sociology, philosophy, and so on. None of those are direct-to-job majors.\nAnd all majors take essentially the same classes the first 2-3 years. You only really have one year of the four that’s dedicated to your area of study. And about a half year of electives which, depending on what’s chosen, may or may not have anything to do with your major directly.", ">\n\nYour main gripe appears to be that there is a lack of maturity and responsibility among 18-year-olds, and that this prevents them from being able to make decisions regarding college/uni.\nIm not American so i don’t know how exactly the voting age works - but you seem to equate seriousness of the supposed disenfranchisement and legal disadvantages with not being able to drink or smoke so I’ll view them as not very limiting. That notwithstanding, these supposed legal limitations can be set independently of their ability to make decisions, so it’s not fair to assert that they don’t have the ability to judge the implications of going to uni based on such rules. \nYou suggest that it’s flippant to go to college at the age of 18 as one wouldn’t know what they want to do with their lives - which I view as totally illogical because that is where you will go to figure yourself out, most people I know who went to college did not know where they would end up but found their career, passion, etc while there. \nYou also point at this American debt issue, again I can’t make in-depth judgements about it, but these days a college degree is pretty much required for a well paying job. As someone else pointed out, the return on investment is positive so while yeah, the debt is ludicrous, a college degree is better overall. \nThe age of eighteen is the prime time to go to college/ uni imo, your ability to learn does start dropping off in your mid-to-late 20s. Your college years aren’t for making concrete decisions, that’s for later in your life. If the ages of 18 to 22 or beyond are best used learning and exploring and after 25 is when you temper down and mature, then youd ought go to college right out of HS.", ">\n\nDoes this just have to do with high tuition cost? In certain countries, college education is very cheap. You think it is fine in these countries for 18 year olds to go straight into college?", ">\n\nAlmost nobody is taking on $300k worth of loans. \nAs for \"pressure\" the reality is that a college education affords you significant upward economic mobility if you come from meager means, and is critical to remain financially stable if you come from a financially stable family.\nFurther, there are important skills you learn in college that you don't learn in high school. Statistical literacy. Formal/professional writing. Critical thinking. Ability to read technical reports and understand what is being discussed. These skills are all equally taught no matter what your major is, and all are important in most modern careers.\nFurther, college serves as a community for building a professional network. In addition to the network of people you meet in your classes and day yo day life, you also have access to university-organized job fairs where you can talk directly to industry recruiters. \nFinally, regardless of your major, a college degree can be a critical stepping stone towards professional careers such as medicine, law, business, etc., and in fact those diverse major backgrounds can be a boon for applicants to these sorts of programs.\nSo, college is actually a good thing and it is not necessarily a problem that an 18 year old doesn't know precisely what they want to do with their lives.\nThe alternative is also just not as good. Let's say you take 5 years off to work menial jobs before deciding to go to college to pursue a career you love. Now your study skills, reading skills, writing skills, etc are unpracticed for 5 years. You're older and may have other responsibilities in your life that will interfere with your studies (especially kids!). And you're likely to have less time to actually work in your chosen career to pay off those loans. So, you get less out of it and you're less prepared for it. Is that a better solution? I don't think so.", ">\n\nFirst, you're wrong that nobody is taking $300k out in loans. It may be a shocker, but there are people who decide not to go to in-state public schools...and when you do this your tuition immediately doubles ... average cost of college is $35k a year, and most students get their degree in 5+ years. That's on average $175k. Choosing to go to top tier school will be more like $65k/year which puts you in the $325k range.\nDo most parents pay for some of this? Do most get some sort of financial aid? Do most people pay for at least some college upfront? Yes of course. But not all.", ">\n\n\nFirst, you're wrong that nobody is taking $300k out in loans. It may be a shocker, but there are people who decide not to go to in-state public schools...and when you do this your tuition immediately doubles ... average cost of college is $35k a year, and most students get their degree in 5+ years. That's on average $175k.\n\nIt's possible to accrue this type of debt if you go to an out-of-state private school, but that just means most people probably shouldn't do that.\n\nChoosing to go to top tier school will be more like $65k/year which puts you in the $325k range.\n\nContrary to common belief, Ivys are extremely generous with low-income students. They charge rich kids the full sticker price, but the price for low-income students is very low (Harvard advertises that students from families who make less than $75,000 don't pay anything to attend).", ">\n\n\nIt's possible to accrue this type of debt if you go to an out-of-state private school, but that just means most people probably shouldn't do that.\n\nI mean that's really the OP's point - 17/18 YO are not typically equipped to make a sound financial decision here.", ">\n\nGiven that college education is the best vehicle for social mobility (and this has been backed up a ton in the literature) it seems to me that saying “reconsider going to college because you are too ignorant to make a good financial decision right now” is throwing the baby out with the bath water. The proper intervention is to do a better job educating students on their options.", ">\n\nI felt this way for a while, but the success rate for post-secondary education is fairly decent. I've also heard multiple arguments that many younger people have an easier time with a full-time course load than older people do. In my own experience, coming back to college at age 26 was better for me mentally, but harder financially. I'm 33, and still haven't completed a degree because my financial and mental health problems push me to take extended breaks while I save money and regroup internally. Anecdotally, many young students are used to full-time education, because it's all they've ever known. It's easier for many to just stay in the grind and knock it out before moving on to the next stage in life.\nPersonally, I think the problem isn't that we push kids in too young, it's the way we handle tuition. The US does alright overall, but many countries handle school finances and culture differently, and have better overall outcomes for students.\nLastly, it's worth a nod to your argument in that high school students in the US aren't often made aware of trade schools and other post-secondary education options. Maybe we would see success rates rise if students with talents outside of traditional education were encouraged to pursue those, rather than pushing them into the same system as \"everyone else.\"", ">\n\nPeople CHOOSE to go to expensive schools. My entire college education including room and board for a B.S. in a stem field cost less than 40k.", ">\n\nSmart. You can get an engineering degree at a state school for under $40k.", ">\n\n\nHow is an 18 year old, who is legally barely capable of anything, understand the true implications of such a decision?\n\nMost aren’t spending $300k. You’re off by an order of magnitude. The current average isn’t even over $30k. \nEven at $30k debt that’s an entirely reasonable amount of money to spend to get a $900k lifetime return. \nWhere’s the issue? Spend some now earn more over your lifetime.", ">\n\n\nThere are numerous studies that show that only a small percent of degrees are actually profitable. \n\nCitation needed.\nThe median high-school-only full-time income is well under the 25th percentile bachelor's-or-higher income, so a large majority of four-year graduates out-earn most high-school-only graduates.", ">\n\nWhich means... 84% make less. That's the opposite of your point. Most college grads out-earn most high school grads, like I said.\nFor that matter, the first heading on your first source's full report is \"Earnings Generally Increase\nwith More Education\". And take a look at Fig. 5 - bearing in mind that the median lifetime income with a high school diploma is $1.6M (Fig. 2), every single category of majors out-earns the median high school graduate (the lowest being Education, with a median of $2M). Your source conclusively and consistently supports my claim.\nNo one is denying that exceptions exist.", ">\n\n\nYes but my point was not all degrees are profitble not that collage doesnt give you a chance to make more money. \n\nYou specifically said only a small percentage of degrees are profitable. \"A small percentage\" is not \"not all\". As I said, no one denies that exceptions exist.", ">\n\nIn that case, sure. I don't think it's really disputed that, say, social work or education is poorly paid given the degree requirement, and not a great investment financially.", ">\n\nCruel and predatory? Feels like you just chose 2 random negative words because you didn't want to say 'bad' twice.\nAlso your issue doesn't seem to be with studying, but with getting tuition. Maybe you should argue for free public education instead.", ">\n\n\nFeels like you just chose 2 random negative words because you didn't want to say 'bad' twice.\n\nThat's the mark of an educated man.", ">\n\nThat's the mark of someone wanna trigger emotional response form reader. It's a\nstretch to use those words in this post", ">\n\n\nSo where is this logic when it applies to college?? We actively encourage kids to place themselves into binding contracts where they may have to spend a decent chunk (or the rest) of their lives paying back up to 300k in student loans.\n\nNope. They got ONE loan for ONE semester. Attended classes for 4 months while talking to teachers and peers. And then decided that it still made sense and took out ANOTHER loan for another semester. And so on…. a lot more times. At any point they could realize it was a mistake, if they decided that, and leave.\nAnd the average debt at graduation, is $29K.", ">\n\nFair.", ">\n\n\nbarely able to vote\n\nYou're either old enough or not. And at 18, you can vote. As a matter of fact, booze, cigarettes and running for President of the US are pretty much the only things you can't do. You are considered an adult in almost every other way. Stop infantilizing 18 year olds and treating them all like incompetent idiots.", ">\n\nIdk I was a pretty incompetent idiot (nice word choice) at 18", ">\n\nYou shouldn't generalize others from self.", ">\n\nYou definitely shouldn't...but 18 year olds are generally morons. Not their fault, but generally true.", ">\n\nI was a \"non-traditional\" student, so you're preaching to the choir. But I can think of a few reasons why social pressure to go straight to college makes sense:\n\nKeep the momentum going! It's very hard to go to the \"real world\" and then back to school. You get caught up in life: rent, bills, freedom, etc. Not everyone has the luxury of staying with their parents, and the USA does not have the social support networks in place to enable gap-year folks like some other countries.\nReturn on investment! Kickstarting your career early can provide some crazy high return on investment. Both literally, in the form of early investing in stocks, as well as more figuratively in the form of higher career trajectory and fluidity.\nSocietal impact! On a macro scale, what we want is productive and contributing members of society. Pushing folks into school might not be the best for an individual, but it's very likely best for society as a whole.\n\nAnd I can think of a direct counterpoint to your assertion, as well. It's no more predatory than the fact that an 18 year old can open a credit card, sign a mortgage, get married, take out a car loan, sign up for life insurance, etc. All those things can be tools, and can also be predatory when abused by assholes looking to profit. And the people getting preyed on really run the whole gamut of society - there are 50 year olds who are signing objectively bad loans, racking up tens of thousands in credit card debt and signing mortgages way outside their means. So unfortunately I don't think this particular industry is any worse than all the others in which an individual can shoot themselves in the foot by not thinking critically about their choices.", ">\n\nFortunately American colleges treat students like children in lots of ways, from making sure they are housed to keeping attendance in class. So that more or less works out OK.", ">\n\nHow does predatory fit in here? Colleges do advertise, but the people doing most of the advocating don't stand to gain anything from the bad advice.\nIs it the government providing loans that's predatory? Leaving aside someone that's politically left having to state the government is predatory; I assume just like with private companies, the terms of the loan are straight forward; They tell you exactly what the loan will cost if you only make minimum payments. This actually seems less predatory than companies selling products where they omit problems or important context with the product (eg - iRobot doesn't clearly tell you the various sensor issues their vacuums have).\nSo who is the predator here?", ">\n\nI pressured both my kids NOT to straight after school. They ignored me and went anyway.", ">\n\nAs opposed to what? Travel the world? Sit around playing FFXI? “Cultivate a hobby”?\nWith whose money? Living where? Will your parents just pay for you to travel the world for the “experience”? Will they just let you live with them while you get your Mythic Weapon to ilvl 119? The answer is probably no. Paying either part of or all your tuition is one more kindness your parents are doing for you, you can’t expect them to pay for you to lounge around. Especially American families, where it’s all about one self rather than the family unit. You don’t know how many threads I’ve read where people tell others to just ditch their parents and let them “rot in a nursing home”. Forget that they spent 18+ years of their life taking care of you. \nIf your answer is “I’ll work”, then what work? Delivering pizza? Because you’ll be hard pressed to find a good job at 18 with no degree. \nTherefore, what you’re suggesting is simply infeasible for most people.", ">\n\nThe problem here is not sending young adults to college. That's a good idea because both their school knowledge and learning methods are still there.\nThe problem is a system where going to college costs 300k.", ">\n\nBut it doesn’t. It would only cost that if you paid nothing, went to the most-expensive private school you could find, and did it all with debt while also funding your living expenses with debt too.\nThe average debt at graduation is only $29K. So, clearly, few have that type of debt. Certainly vanishingly-few who are getting bachelors degrees. Most people who get into six-figure debt from school end up lawyers and physicians.", ">\n\nOP: Going to college is not close to being cruel and predatory. Setting up someone for failure is.\nBeing around an scholastic environment with people who are seeking to improve their lives and education is legitimately the opposite of what you have said. \nGuess what else you can take at college. Trade school programs, certifications, and the degree to ensure your knowledge and success. \nMost people can even get financial aid for help! You don't need to go to a Ivy league school. Now adays most employers don't give a fuck. You just have to be educated and able to do the job.\nGuess what? Humans need to learn and need to face resistance in the mind and body to improve and strengthen. Heavy weight and resistance will force the body to build muscle or strength. Learning will force the mind to expand it's capabilities.\nA young person, especially someone around 18 is vulnerable to negative influence. They really should be around positive people and a positive environment. There are many vices that will ruin a life, and trust me on this. The worst influencers are seriously not trying to go to college and improve their life.", ">\n\n\nMost people can even get financial aid for help! You don't need to go to an Ivy league school. Now adays most employers don't give a fuck.\n\nCorrection: nobody gives a fuck. Other than pretentious dummies or people whose goal was to skate through life on the “good old boy’s network” of grads from their alma mater.", ">\n\nAlot of people in this thread are campaigning hard for thr benefits of college. And I 100% agree, the stats don't lie. But it's more nuanced than that. As an elementary school kid I always heard from my teachers \"you need to go to college to be successful\" and that's not inherently true. What is not often talked about is choice of major, which imo is an even more important choice than choosing whether to go to college or not. \nAlot of 18 year Olds don't know what they want to do, and I saw many MANY people get degrees in stuff that hasn't helped them at all. Or change degrees after wasting alot of time and money on their first degree choice. What I'm trying to say is that engineering degree and a theater degree are 2 different things. I could graduate with an art degree tomorrow and it's no guerentee I make 6 figures ever. Granted, I'm sure there are art majors making alot of money, but the job field isn't exactly as fruitful as other majors. \nEven things like teachers. My brother Is a teacher and my other brother with a trade job makes twice as much as him without needing a degree", ">\n\nA lot of people in this thread probably went to college.", ">\n\nI used to have the same thought about drinking and smoking, but what benefit does either have more than college?\nI don't think the problem is that they go to college, I think the problem is they go to college wanting a degree in something that they were told in high school would make them 6 figures starting salary. So they jump in for the money and never figure out what their passion is which leads to a college degree that becomes useless when they realize they can't get a job.", ">\n\nThe way I approached college was to start taking core/required classes (English, math, history, government, etc) while choosing electives that were subjects that looked interesting but I knew nothing/little about. Doing that helped me find the major I wanted. And, while I never worked in that field after graduating, it held me in good stead and I was successful in the field I ended up wanting to work in.", ">\n\nThat is a smart approach and often it seems college is almost set up for people to take that route. I think some just don't take the time to look into different electives to find what they enjoy.", ">\n\nIn 1969 when I first went to uni there was any government loans, the tuition was $200 a semester with no limitations on credit hours taken, then gov loans came in and tuitions sky rocketed and have continued to do so ever since along with restrictions on how many subjects you take. I agree this was a predatory act done intentionally so schools could make money, kind of a sideways attempt at government sponsored education.", ">\n\nI think trade schools don't get mentioned often enough as legit beginning on a decent career path.", ">\n\nMost kids see no glory in such blue-collar work, feel they’d have “settled” and be looked down upon, and also see four years where they can continue hanging out with their friends while not working, versus taking a full-time job and “getting started”. Not hard to imagine they prefer the easy “glory” path to the “get busy and become a taxpaying member of society” path.", ">\n\nBecause if they don't go immediately they likely will never go. \nWhich for many wouldn't be a bad thing.", ">\n\nIn many of Asian and European countries, college education is funded by the governments and is not as atrocious as here in the US. Arguably, continuing education whilst young has lots of benefits because it's well understood that learning declines as we age.", ">\n\nI sure wish I had more time to figure out what I wanted to do. Tuition is relatively cheap where I am and my parents paid for it - but I studied something I have no passion for, so my outlook is not great right now. I wish I had the funds to go back and get another degree but it would mean going in debt and being financially fucked for who knows how long. If I took a few extra years to work and have a better idea of what I wanted to study I probably would've made a better decision and been in a better place now? who knows", ">\n\nThis!!", ">\n\nSee if your school has a Co-op program. You work 6 months and go to school for 6 months.", ">\n\nThat’s smart", ">\n\nI propose your issue isn't with college itself, but the government and culture surrounding college.\nFor example, tuition for college was massively subsidized before Nixon made sweeping cuts to it, in order to silence political dissenters from colleges.\nCollege education does provide valuable skills. It's predatory nature comes from legalized price gouging of tuition and needed materials. On top of this, the government profits on the loans it gives out for school. Not only are you required to pay taxes for life to fund education, but you're required to pay extra in the form of student loans+interest.\nColleges are aware of this and do profit on it. The worst of it comes in the form of politicians profiting on these loans (by owning private lending businesses, voting to increase their wages using taxes, requiring military service to join without massive debt then profiting on military action).\nIt's not the college doing this. It is a design of a proto-fascist state attempting to squeeze all value out of its lower classes. \nYou are becoming more aware of it and that's good.", ">\n\nPretty much an American thing. Very common for kids to take a year or two off elsewhere. Do what you wanna do and find the person you want to be.", ">\n\nI'd have to do research, but the only difference I'd make is to say either, \"It has become cruel and predatory,\" or, \"It has always been cruel and predatory.\" Tuition has soared, and predatory loans have replaced grants for poor students, but I'm skeptical there was ever a time college delivered all it promised. I think poor people saw college as a thing rich people did, so they thought if they did it they could get rich too, or at least less poor, but when you graduate you find the rich kids were just legitimizing a position that was always waiting for them, and you're still gonna have to strive and struggle.", ">\n\nDefinitely the latter", ">\n\n300k in loans if that 18 year old gets a PHD.\nMost bachelors are hella affordable. I paid for mine by working as a chinese food delivery driver part time, class of 2016.", ">\n\nI agree when it comes to the loans, total garbage.", ">\n\nParticularly when those 18 year olds are having to go into the kind of debt people who are buying houses go into. It’s not a reasonable expectation", ">\n\nI believe the pressure is actually a mix of permanent \"branding\" of a concept and a false illusion to reality.\n\"Going to college will get you a better paying job\"\nI know many and I'm sure many of you know folks who have these fancy papers going \"i r koolage stewdent\" and the person is working some crap job/temp till they find something that lets them use said piece of paper.\nA mix of schools and businesses (both work and loan company's) have either purposely or unpurposely set a form of gate keeping for \"better jobs\" and the only way to do said learning is to pay X$. Don't got the money? here sign this paper work putting you into heavy if not life long debt to learn this thing. No no ignore folks who have the degrees who even 10/20/30 years later are still paying it off cause the terms are not fair or in your favor. But you don't got a choice in lenders short of government aid but you better be poor or getting lots of scholarships. \nIt is beyond predatory and the fact the government is currently going \"these debts have cause decades of harm\" is proof they are really fucking stupid. Sadly the folks fighting it so hard is another unrelated topic. \nTo end this tho I share the same view on kids/\"new\" adults are forced into a position they shouldn't be due to a social structure that has proven detrimental for not just the individual but to the country as a whole.", ">\n\nI think you're conflating the decision of college with the decision of taking out student loans.\nI agree that an 18 year old should not be able to take out so much in student loans for a degree that everyone knew at the time wouldn't pay for itself. But I disagree that college is inappropriate for 18 year olds. 18 is a formative time in a person's life and college can be a good way to expose a person to many different perspectives and experiences that they otherwise wouldn't have an opportunity to experience.", ">\n\nThe problem isn't getting an education. The problem is;\n\nbeing convinced to go to overpriced universities which won't help you in the long run. Don't go somewhere for 100k to get a degree to be a high-school teacher\nBeing convinced to go after careers that won't make you money. Ive lost count of the number of friends who got degrees that can't be easily monetized and then they have to go back for more schooling.", ">\n\nNo. But there are different paths to success in college. From Community College, part time schedule, online, to full class load on campus. Parents and teens should make an honest assessment of what they can handle at 18. (Even a gap year)", ">\n\nNo one forced me to go to college. Went in very early 2000s.\n\nIt was the best option I had at the time, after working moderately hard in high school. Mostly, grant money paid for classes at a pretty good state university. I only ended up owing a little under 5k and that’s primarily because I had a few majors.\n\nThe other options were the military, trade school, or probably a minimum wage, none of those options were appealing to me, besides I could still do those things and have a 4 year degree. \nBut, I would’ve been terrified with those options only because of no fall back.\nI could’ve opened a business, but I can do that and did that while going to school. \nI’m also in a state where you can get a full ride with a 3.0. I did have a chance to go to a couple of higher end universities, but I know it could put my family and I in a tight situation. \nI think I actually took much more money than what I owed. And, actually loved college. Everyone always talks about their fondness of grade school. Elementary was ok, hated middle school and the first part of high school. It was awful \nWhat I will say about college- if you’re a terrible student or hated school, then you probably shouldn’t go. It only guarantees a job for fields that require extensive training and knowledge of a specific fields. Though, you have an opportunity to make your path to jobs or careers in college, while being there or taking proper steps for the future. \nThere’s your career services, electives, seminars, company recruitment, program recruitment, career development, etc. Some of the programs are so evil they pay your way to school. Oftemtimes, if you do well in college and have a wealth knowledge with impactful majors. You pretty much will have your pick of jobs.", ">\n\nIf student loans/debt wasn't a factor, would you still believe that \"it is cruel and predatory that we as a society pressure 18 year olds to go straight to college after high school\"?", ">\n\nNo not at all. I still don’t like that there is a stigma around those who do not go to college but I think the costs are nonsensical", ">\n\nThen it sounds like you don't actually agree with your own title to begin with? I don't know if they let you edit titles, but it might be good to put an amended title at the top of your main post that more directly opposes predatory loans and debt. And I can't disagree with you on that part. If I were 18 and wanted to take out a $100k loan to start an underwater basket weaving company I would get laughed out of the bank, and rightfully so. I don't have the credit to make such a poor decision with someone else' money. But if I take out $100k to get an underwater basket weaving degree, they'll happily screw me over for life.", ">\n\nI agree with lots of your point, so I’m going to challenge the idea that encouraging education itself is predatory.\n40 years ago, a person could put themselves through an undergraduate degree with a part time job, incurring minimal debt and paying it off quickly afterwards. Even if they never used that degree, they grew, learned things, and weren’t in decades of debt for it. \nThen policies changed around student loan debt and the cost of secondary education skyrocketed. Someone else who’s more educated in the subject can better speak on the nuances of why this occurred, but it fundamentally changed the landscape so that schools jacked up prices to the insane cost we see today. \nThis in my opinion is the part that’s predatory - folks who took advantage of the growing demand for secondary education. An educated society benefits everyone in it, and encouraging 18 year olds to broaden their minds and learn things while their brains are young and plastic is not inherently a bad thing. The predatory part is that we allowed some folks to stand in the way of education because they needed to make loads of money off of it. It didn’t start out that way.", ">\n\nPredatory 🤣🤣🤣", ">\n\nEver heard of predatory loans?", ">\n\nYes, but until today I had never heard of predatory higher education opportunities 🤣🤣🤣", ">\n\nThe loans are what is predatory, haha", ">\n\nIf you are 18 you are still in a study habit from school. Putting a gap year or two, three in between will wash that away and make it more difficult to start studying.\nLearning is easier when you're young, so it makes sense to do it as young as possible.\nHigher education is by all means a great time, where you constantly expand your worldview, knowledge, and pool of acquaintances. At the same time higher education offers plenty of opportunity for extracurricular activities, much more than a job would. I see no reason why getting a boring entry level job would be preferable.", ">\n\nI 100% am b3hind as many people going to college as they can. I believe it is more than just an education. However, 18 is a TERRIBLE time to go. After high school, most people needs a few years to gain a little real world experience and let their brain further developed. You should have experience with alcohol BEFORE college not during. \nYou shouldn't get married before 25 and you shouldn't go to college before 25.", ">\n\nIn my country kids considered fully adult once they turn 18, they can drink, smoke and they have all their rights. However I'd still love to take a little break before college but my family won't let me.", ">\n\nI will say that college is a great idea if you have the means. I personally couldn’t afford it, even with $20k in scholarships and fafsa I couldn’t do it. Some people have to work full time to survive, some have to care for disabled/elderly family members or younger siblings, or might have other obligations. We tell high schoolers that college is the only option, but it’s not feasible for everyone and I think it’s important to present alternative options", ">\n\nI truly believe it depends on said child. Some kids just know. They know what they want and have no problem going after. The rest of us should definitely wait until our frontal lobe is developed. I had zero clue. Figured it out by 30 but it's too late for me right now. ADHD is my downfall personally and money.", ">\n\nWe as a society don't necessarily do that. I'm a teacher and when taught in America, I (and the other teachers at my school) often pushed techs school and learning a trade over college.", ">\n\nYeah, I think pre college level schools should have a system that allows for the students to explore what interests them more. How is a person supposed to know what they want to do for college when they've never truly been given an opportunity to explore their interests? It's purposely done so that colleges can make more money off the people who don't know what they want.", ">\n\nSo I agree with you in people putting off university till a little after HS, though I wouldn't use the word predatory, its more like a false promise. A bachelor's degree is worth next to nothing in the US now because people are treating it as a fail-safe for people. I've met kids who are dumb as rocks in college and professors just pass them then they get out into the real world and take they can't do the actual job they talked for, because well their dumb as rocks... So they just eventually keep losing their job and work at some fast food place with tons of school debt. In this scenario you are correct. However, I do think that some people will benefit from school right-away. Women for one, will find the best job that pays the most for them in an educated field. Now this is where I will get major backlash, I know. But also if you are coming from a HS that doesn't have super good educational system (ei low graduation level, or good overall GPA) then your probably won't do well in college. There are the exceptions to that right, but as a statistic, those kids aren't cut for college just yet. It's better for them to go out into the world and gain experience that way and find a field they are good at/passionate about then go back to school. They will then hopefully be more mentally ready for the hardships that come with higher education", ">\n\nI went my first year, parents paying, and I felt bad because I wasn't ready to settle down and study. So, I went to work. I ended up working in construction and made a very good paycheck for a 18 y/o. I did this for about 10 years, and was a forman/supervisor for a successful company when I went back to school. By this time, I knew what my interests were and I paid my own way. \nI changed my career and my state degree in my early 30s didn't keep me from making a decent, competitive paycheck. And the 10 years of experience managing teams in construction had very translatable skills. I just went from blue to white collar, so just had to watch my salty language. :)\nSo, no, I don't think society pressure was enough to keep me from doing what I wanted. My path was not typical, and I'm doing just fine. (my wife may argue that last point.)", ">\n\nI mean it took me until age 24 to realize I was living my whole life wrong & I still don’t know what I wanna do with my life but I guess everybody is different & everybody develops & learns about themselves in a different time frame but I’d say an 18 year old doesn’t actually know what they want to do for the rest of their life", ">\n\nIt can be predatory. It can also be extremely liberating to be done with school at 22-25 years old. Working full time while going to school is an arduous prospect. Btw I believe slacking off for 2-3 years not accomplishing anything by age 21 is crippling to one’s chances of success.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I struggled a lot between 18-20 but I know that if I were taking that time while I’m school I likely would have failed out and wasted a ton of money", ">\n\nYup. It was culture for me. I went even though I had ZERO business doing so . If I would of taken a year or two and worked a real job. It would of taught me so much . Not only to respect what an education can give you. But also what I want to do with my life . Instead I went to college and just got swept away with life .", ">\n\nNope, it is not the \"pushing\" that is ridiculous/predatory/cruel, but the situation in the USA.\nIn Europe, it just feels like a secondary high-school so people don't feel \"pushed\". Heck, I am glad I started uni at 19 (yes, where I am we do HS until 19) and have not waited. I knew what I wanted since a long time ago and so do most people. And it is cheap. Everything is cheap. The only difference is that you are no longer with the parents. That's all.\nSo again, consider not the \"push\" being wrong, but what the conditions are. Your argument should be against the status of your uni system, not against students starting uni at 18.", ">\n\nYes, but given the status of the uni system, I think people should take more time before rushing into college to make sure they don’t take on a huge financial burden they might not be ready/prepared for", ">\n\nOnce again, in \"normal\" countries it's not that much of an investment. And also, it is parents that mainly pay for the cheap tuition and the living costs.\nMy point is that you should be angry at the fact that the uni system is not \"normal\" where you live, instead that young people are \"pushed\" into learning when they are in their mental prime.", ">\n\nI am not angry, nor am I angry at students going to college. I think given the US college system is bad, we should not push kids into school without them understanding the financial implications of their decision", ">\n\nI've been trying to tell this very thing to anyone that'll listen. Unless you know exactly what you want to do at the ripe old age of 18 and are prepared to put yourself in debt for years to come, don't go to college. Get a job and get some good life skills first. Learn how to be an adult and make adult decisions before you waste your money on an education that you probably won't even use. When you've figured out what is important to you and what you think you might want to do for a living, THEN go and get a degree.", ">\n\nHaha in this economy you need to be done with school by 12 so you can start saving to buy a house at 40. Goals", ">\n\nHi, you raised a lot of points, and I shall try to address as many as possible. You say that 18 yo cannot smoke. That is false in every state as well as every other country where smoking is not banned completely. As to drinking, I agree that it is hypocrisy to bestow upon 18 yo all the responsibilities of adulthood but withhold one of the privileges. I am unsure what the phrase \"barely able to vote\" means, you either can or you cannot.\nMoving on to your main thesis, which seems to me to be this: \"Uni saddles students with debt for many years to come, therefore 18 uo who are immature should not be able to make such decisions.\" In response to that I would firstly ask you to look at the alternatives. It is widely believed that the age of mental maturity is around 25. Would you have them work unqualified minimum-wage jobs for 7 years, and only afterwards go to Uni? Or would you expect parents to support them for an additional 7 years? Either way, they would be throwing away close to a decade of their lives, for the chance of making a better choice. It seems far worse than getting student loans, as they would only start working in their chosen profession at the age of 29/31, when all those who went to uni at 18 will have moved up the corporate ladder and made a significant dent in their student loans. Furthermore, it would be inconsistent to just restrict 18 yo from uni access, as you either treat them as adults or as children, therefore to be logically consistent you would need to restrict their access to driving licences, guns and voting, as all three can be extremely dangerous in the wrong hands.\nI think that the real solution to the problem is to stop giving out student loans to unprofitable degrees. Engineers, like myself, lawyers and doctors generally have far, far fewer problems with student loans than those studying history, literature or psychology. Therefore, to protect students from loans they will be unable to pay back, unprofitable degrees should operate on a pay-for-it-upfront model.", ">\n\nThey used to go off to war or to work on coal mines so college is a walk on the park.", ">\n\nI know this is buried, but if you see this, you need to understand that the lack of \"financial understanding\" that you're seeing here isn't necessarily your fault, nor any teenager's fault. It's your parent's duty and responsibility to guide you through these decisions. \nYou're feeling stressed that your father lost his job and his career might not be the same after this. That's a risk that your parents took on. As a father to a young teenager, my wife and I will take this responsibility on for her as well. We know the risks and we accept that responsibility. That's on us. We have put our name on the line for cars, homes, and most of all our children. \nI can make the same arguments that everyone else here has made, but I'll add that with a degree, you're only matched by 35% of the population. With a Masters degree, that turns into 13% of the population. You are dramatically decreasing your pool of peers with a degree, and you will see significantly less time without a job with a degree (on average).\nI'm a tradesman. My wife is a degreed worker. I made more money early in life and (as we are coming up on our 50th rotation around the sun) she is significantly out-earning me now. I expect to have a more difficult time finding work that pays well as I age as there's always someone who will do what I do for far less than I do it for. That means that I must continue my education to set myself apart from my peers who are young and hungry. It's more difficult to compete with a larger pool of people.", ">\n\nThe problem isn’t going into higher education at 18. In fact it’s easier to do that before you have a job and obligations.\nThe problem is saddling people with generational debt.\nEurope does not have that dilemma for instance.\nBut you do make a good point about trade schools.\nUnfortunately society as a whole sees the whole thing as « beneath them ». Trade school means you couldn’t hack it in normal school, so people don’t go (which is sometimes dumb, because those guys can make a lot of money).", ">\n\n\"The 'push' itself for college isn't cruel/predatory (even if there are loads of predatory practices on the financial side of things).\"\nWhat I mean by this is that the 'push' is generally caused by a swell of well-meaning advice: College was a great investment for lots of Boomers. Many who went straight to work (even many who did quite well for themselves) ended up with a bad back and wishing they had gone to college and gotten a desk job. Many who went straight to college felt like it opened a lot of doors early in their career that compounded well over the long run. On top of these anecdotes, there is plenty of government data out there showing earning projections for different educational-attainment levels that back up the anecdotes. All in all, when someone's experience was \"College worked out great for everyone I can think of!\" then \"I really think you should go to College!\" is usually well-intentioned advice given in-good-faith.\nThe fact that the financials around the post-secondary education industry became so vastly distorted compared to \"the good old days\" that blanket \"Go to college!\" advice becomes increasingly ill-advised is a tragedy but that doesn't make it malicious.", ">\n\nI don’t think the family members encouraging their kids to go to school are cruel, I think the loan companies are", ">\n\nOf course.\nBut it's not like people feel pressure to go to college because they have an innate natural desire to make loan companies happy. The pressures come from the expectations of people close to them - young people want to follow their trusted mentors' best advice.\nAll the predatory stuff is downstream of that pressure - exploiting the situation, yes, but not creating the situation.", ">\n\nI'm confused. Is the argument really that it's unjust to send kids (back) to school at 18, or that they can't drink and smoke?", ">\n\nA better argument would be that 18 year olds have received little to no education on financial literacy. A few hundred thousand in loans sounds like an insane amount but they may have little to no context as to how long that will actually take to pay off. The loans also could not be issued by any bank to an 18 year old for any other reason due to safe lending laws.\nAlso the issue here is the cost of college, not what age they go to college. It’s not really that much better that I wait until 25 so that I understand how badly I’m getting fucked over before doing it", ">\n\nIs it *just\" the cost of college, or is it pressuring 18 year olds to make a decision they may not have full context to understand? Should they go to college? Trade school? Gap year? Internship?\nShould an 18 year old feel rushed to go to college immediately after high school when they're not sure of what they want to do yet? Because if they decide they don't like the college path they've chosen, they'll still have to pay those loans off, but won't have a degree.\nPersonally I was pushed into making a decision ASAP, I had about a month after high school before I was being threatened with getting kicked out, so I chose trade school, didn't like it, wasn't good at it, wasn't a fit, but graduated for the sake of graduating and never worked professionally in that field. I still had to pay 14k in loans, which is no small amount for someone that young.\nIt's not so much the cost, but the value you get from the cost.", ">\n\nNo it's entirely the cost. The downside you described only exists because of the cost. If the cost wasn't there, then whats your downside? Oh no I'm 21 and have decided to take my life in a different direction?", ">\n\nPerhaps the discussion should be about asking an 18 year old to borrow large amounts of money. \nFor much of the developed world, going to college after high school is about studying, not taking on a lifetime debt.", ">\n\nIt’s the same in the USA; OP’s example of $300K of debt is a ridiculous exception to the norm. Average USA student debt at graduation is $29K. He’s off by an order of magnitude.", ">\n\nWell... it sounds like you're actually arguing that it's cruel that we make people pay for their college rather than providing it free like primary/secondary school. That's a very different view. \nThe reason it's encouraged to continue with higher education after high school is exactly because people's brains are less plastic after about age 25. It's not that you can't learn after that, obviously... but it does get progressively more difficult (edit: and therefore, to your apparent actual point, more expensive). \nSo yes, it makes complete sense if we want an educated populace (which we do, because the world is more complicated than it used to be), that people be encouraged to get that education young. It's just going to get harder and slower as you age.", ">\n\nBased on this I’m assuming your a teenager. First, noones getting student loans for 300k. Second, college is smart do it. Alternatively, you can just work at a gas station the rest of your life or try to make it as an influencer.\nMost of my friends that did not go to college and had the same thought process as you are currently having a hard time financially in their 30s.", ">\n\nI am a full time undergrad student but I wish I had been more financially literate and better prepared for the decision I was making prior to enrolling in a four-year university. I also think it is inaccurate and quite absurd to suggest that people without college degrees will become “influencers” and gas station workers when options such as trade and technical schools exist.", ">\n\n\nI wish I had been more financially literate and better prepared for the decision\n\nThis is an argument to support the fact that your education was inadequate prior to college, not an argument against college itself.\nYes, K-12 schools should teach a lot of life skills, including financial literacy, that would benefit all students in their future decision-making. What you'll discover as you get older is that you spent a lot of time in school learning stuff you will never use — time that could have been spent teaching you things that become hard lessons later on. School generally prepares you for more school, not life.", ">\n\nI don’t know what school you went to but I have never had a class in financial literacy in my entire schooling. I do agree that my education prior to university was inadequate, but it is not common to learn financial literacy in school", ">\n\nYes, I agree. It's not generally taught in schools. This is a problem. \nBut my point is, it's the real problem you're pointing to. Despite 13 years of education, you were not properly prepared to make these decisions that everyone knew were coming. The issue is not that there's pressure to continue education; it's that nobody prepares students for the financial decisions they're going to have to make in order to do so.", ">\n\nNo, that is not the real problem, although it is a problem. \nThe real problem is the cost of college in the first place.\nI don't know why no one is addressing this point. Maybe because it's not an actual reply to OP's point. But it's the actual answer. College is way too expensive. That's what is predatory. Higher education for its own sake is valuable. I want to live in a place where people value education, not just being a good worker bee as early as possible. This path should not be only available to the highest echelons of society. \nIt's not okay to tell people of any age that they should do trades because college is too expensive. Working in trades is hell on your body, and the average career length, not to mention career earnings, is much less than those who work in professional fields of any type.\nThe solution is fully funded post-secondary education for any and everyone who wants it.", ">\n\n\nI don't know why no one is addressing this point. Maybe because it's not an actual reply to OP's point.\n\nYes, that's why. This is CMV, so respondents are required to address OP's point and try to change their view. OP's title premise doesn't mention anything about the cost of college or debt, and the view stated in the text originally made assertions about 18 year-olds not having sufficient decision-making capacity.\n\nThe solution is fully funded post-secondary education for any and everyone who wants it.\n\nSure, but that's also an argument against OP's stated view that 18 year-olds should not be encouraged to attend college. \nFully funded post-secondary education is also already the norm in some countries, so depending on how we interpret OP's use of \"society,\" it may be irrelevant.\nBasically, by OP's own subsequent admission, they worded the post poorly.", ">\n\nConsidering OP's premise is that teenagers shouldn't be encouraged to attend college due to exorbitant costs, I think we can safely assume they live in the US.", ">\n\nFunny, bud. I am a full time college student but I do wish I had better understood what I was getting myself into so I could have considered other education options, taken my prereqs at community college, and generally just have been better educated in personal finance so that I would have had better direction", ">\n\nWhat do you consider the downsides of you going to college?\nI didn't go to university (what we call college here) so I have done the alternative that you're suggesting and I'm interested in hearing your opinion", ">\n\nI’m going to post a longer response but I generally think 18 year old are not well equipped to make the most out of their college experience, which does not make it its money’s worth", ">\n\nAn 18yo is a legal adult (I assume you're talking about the USA). They're denied access to a handful of vices, but otherwise have the full suite of legal rights and responsibilities of a 45yo. It seems weird to think that college or even student loans are more demanding or harder to understand than a full-time job and a mortgage.\nThe reason young people are encouraged to go to college is because it is generally a very good financial investment and offers a fairly gentle transition into adult life. It's a fairly low risk option with great potential upsides.", ">\n\nr/USdefaultism ?", ">\n\n\nlives paying back up to 300k in student loans.\n\nJust fix this problem. It doesn't seem like a smart idea of individuals to profit off the improved education of your population.", ">\n\nThe cruel and predatory thing is that universities charge so dang much for tuition. The cost of the issue, not encouraging kids to seek higher education.", ">\n\nIt’s often not the tuition that raises the sticker price of college. Room, Board, and fees are what have skyrocketed.", ">\n\nI think it’s all of the above, but the point stands regardless.", ">\n\n100%. Teenagers need to do the ROI on college. If you’re spending $100k on a degree that will start you at $35k a year, that is a bad investment.", ">\n\nIt's pretty nuts that in this day and age there are some countries so authoritarian that 18 year olds can't drink or smoke. It's also pretty nuts that there are some places where colleges aren't free at the point of entry, given the disastrous effects we know that has on social mobility.\nThe thing is we haven't really worked out what 18 year olds should be doing. They've finished school but because of automation there's not the unskilled labour there was and so for work we need trained and motivated 25 year olds not skilless 18 year olds. As for how we get trained and motivated 25 year olds, it's some combination of further education and apprenticeship and we haven't at all worked out the details yet and even if we did it probably wouldn't take 7 years. And what we've really not worked out at all is the equal opportunities bit where people of all backgrounds can end up with the skills to do the thing they're motivated to do.\nSo that's the medium/long term challenge. But until we sort that out if you can afford to go college is the least worst alternative. It's the closest thing we've got to a clearing house for helping people find the thing that motivates them and getting them on the path go getting skilled up in that field.\nPersonally? I'd bring back national service, minus the military bits. 2 years from 18-20 for teens to do public works in exchange for a pittance and so earn their free college from the state, and in the meantime grow up a bit and learn how to manage a budget and live the other side of the country from mum and dad (and take all the drugs and fuck everybody they meet). Then in exchange for that you get 3 years free tertiary education from 20-23 by which time you've got some idea what you're interested in and you've sown your wild oats and are ready to go to lectures. Tertiary can be vocational or academic according to your interest. And then 23-25 you're shuffled in to some form of master apprenticeship/paid internship programme.", ">\n\nGreat point!", ">\n\nI'd argue it's cruel and predatory that we as a society (if we're talking about the US, or other countries that don't have a more socialized model), charge money for education, period.\nThe only reason this above is a problem, is because we put a financial hurdle on something which we should be encouraging. After all, an older adult has far more things to worry about societally, and our society has not developed in such a way as to be optimally efficient towards self-betterment to the point where we truly enable people to better themselves, as that would require time, money, and resources that we generally impose upon the individual. (IE: It'd be tough for a 30 year old to learn from a college while having to maintain a modest US lifestyle, complete with car, apartment, food, utilities, and the job required to maintain all that.) \nWhen you've given up that lower education is somewhat meaningless, and oftentimes college is where the bulk of potential 'better jobs' come from, its as if you're being charged for future potential... without any guarantee that said future potential is ever actually seen. What if I get into being a solar or wind turbine technician, but some sweeping reactionary policymaking decides we're going back to oil and gas and coal again? What if I spend time learning about EV drivetrains, and then the market crashes and everyone stops making them? What if I get into art degrees and hone my skills, but then an AI script all but takes over any commercial viability my degree had? (Or accounting? Or for CT technician?) \nCollege works as it does because that further education is happening generally before a lot of these things have taken hold, and in ages past, college tuition was far cheaper, making it far easier for someone to potentially be able to pay for all the above and also afford tuition. In some places, State colleges were even free.\nI don't disagree that the way we have our system set up now is bad, but I'd argue its less because of college or higher education itself being a bad thing, and more about the ways in which we've created systems designed to extract wealth from people. Higher education should be a thing we encourage people to get into, we should absolutely want people to be able to access tools that enable them to become things we need for a healthier society. Putting large financial hurdles in front of them should be an obvious sign of unsustainability, and doing things like trying to make those debts stick through bankruptcy should be a clear sign of predatory behavior. \nSo if you're arguing for an easier accessibility to college education, without all the predatory claws of lenders and the greed of private institutions that're already sitting on multi-billion dollar trusts still having tuitions, then I guess I'm not really challenging your view enough. If the argument is that we shouldn't be pushing people into college period, though, then I'd be pushing back that it's our current perversion of higher education to be just another business in the US that's the problem. There's plenty of models in other countries that show we can have far more affordable colleges, or even free colleges to students, that do not require such financial commitment. In those countries, it isn't cruel and predatory, because they don't have the same broken jank that a system like the US one does.", ">\n\nYes yes yes! Not against education I’m against the greed", ">\n\nIs this an American thing I'm too European to understand?", ">\n\nYes. I apologize", ">\n\nNgl, didn't read the post BUT I went straight into college and dropped out my senior year because of burnout (at 19) and if I had waited a couple years that wouldn't have happened. So I agree.", ">\n\nYeah, I’m in my junior year and I’m completely over it. I feel much more supported by my community outside of college and have a true sense of belonging there. I have a career I’m really excited about and I feel that college is putting it on hold. I am probably going to finish my degree but ugh", ">\n\nYeah, I'm gonna finish my degree... Eventually. I need my mind to heal. I just joke and tell people I decided to take my gap year a little late but the fact that I dropped out haunts me everyday. Do your best to keep at it.", ">\n\nWhy should 18-yr olds be allowed to drink & smoke? Those negatively affect one's life, but learning more is beneficial. Sure you have to pay for it but professors don't teach for free.", ">\n\nI definitely shouldn't have gone to college right after high school. I lacked real world social skills, the necessary work ethic, the money management skills, and so much more I needed to succeed. Leaving college and spending a year working during covid really helped me alot with building up these skills. I was definitely a more well rounded person after my break from school\nI would highly recommend that anyone going to college who could use some money and experience get a shitty retail job before they go. It teaches you alot about work ethic, dealing with people and their bullshit, and so much more. It also scares you straight a bit, realizing what life without a degree could be like", ">\n\nThe only cruel part is the outrageous cost of college here in America", ">\n\nSorry, u/someonefr0msomewhere – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:\n\nDirect responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. See the wiki page for more information. \n\nIf you would like to appeal, you must first check if your comment falls into the \"Top level comments that are against rule 1\" list, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. \nPlease note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.", ">\n\nNo one pressured you into anything. I wanted to go to college right after high-school and I did just that. Others in my class didn’t and decided to do other things. Stop projecting how your feel about yourself “failure to accomplish much” onto others.", ">\n\nOkay", ">\n\nWell one big difference is that it isn't illegal to not go to college, it is just what is recommended. Alcohol and those other scenarios are actually illegal", ">\n\nWhy are you focusing on the financial impact and not the true source of the issue? There shouldn't be a significant financial impact to the student.\nContinuing education after high school is undeniably the best time to do so developmentally. A person's brain only becomes less malleable or able to absorb and retain information as they age. \nIf we removed the idea of student debt from the picture would tertiary education be either cruel or predatory? In many countries this is already the case.", ">\n\nWhile I understand the source of the financial impact on the student, there isn’t really anything we can do that will change that in the near future", ">\n\nSure there is, we can lobby our representatives for stronger financial support for students attending tertiary institutions of learning. \nDeflecting from the source of financial impact and placing it on people pressuring 18-year-olds into accruing student debt is defeatism, especially when the stats on median income support tertiary education being a net benefit for those students even factoring in significant accrual of student debt.\nThose people doing the \"cruel and predatory\" pressuring are being rational. It is on median worth it to go to college in America and it's not even close.", ">\n\nMaybe just make college affordable instead of encouraging them to wait until a period where they're unlikely to ever be able to devote their full attention to higher education.", ">\n\nWell when is it that college will be affordable? Never, lmao", ">\n\nThere are countries outside the us where college is affordable though.", ">\n\nFirst off, college is too expensive. Obviously, that is the main concern. It shouldn’t require massive loans for anyone. \nSecondly, as parents who see and are aware of the current higher-education shitshow, it is our responsibility to educate and prepare our kids. I have an 11 year old and she already knows college is unaffordable for us, and that she most likely will need to go to tech school for a while if she chooses that path. My kids are close in age and I try to teach them “team ideas” like they may want to share an apartment, and that’s probably a good idea since they already split chores and space in our home now. I also have a system where if they want something big, they can get a “loan” from me where they do chores to pay me back. If they don’t do them, they get charged a penalty. I clean houses and I’m teaching them how to do that on the side as well (I make about $40/hr). \nNone of this is ideal, but we have to do the best we can.", ">\n\nCollege is a good thing. Drinking and smoking aren't. It's like saying, \"It's cruel to force kids to eat vegetables even though they can't do heroine.\" Yes, college is expensive, but the average college grad makes about a million more dollars on their life than someone who just went to high school.", ">\n\nIt’s better than pointing I gun at them. I had a tendency to do that before cellphones. It always got their attention and they ended up driving much nicer.", ">\n\nWhat about countries that have free access to university?", ">\n\nYou didn't mention which society- there are several countries where you do not need to pay excessive loans for higher education.\nAdditionally, there are many schools in the United States which are more affordable. Many community colleges only cost a few thousand dollars per semester. This is still a substantial amount, but I think 10-20k in loans is far less cruel or predatory than 300 thousand dollars. The majority of public schools are going to be in 40-60k. Additionally, the majority of schools do not require you to pay for all four to six years in advance, it's semester by semester. So even at the more expensive state schools, the 18-year old adult is signing for 5-6k. I think this is a reasonable amount of money to be responsible for at that age.\nI would also argue that to a certain extent, 18 year old adults are mentally capable of understanding and signing contracts. The fact that society does not allow them to drink/smoke/rent a car doesn't have anything to do with their actual mental capabilities.", ">\n\nPapa said education is the only thing where money isn't wasted. Even if you owe $$$k, the critical thinking it leaves you is exponentially worthy if used properly. Critical thinking does not have to stay within the bounds of your profession.", ">\n\nCounterpoint: that only applies in the US.\nIn many other countries in the world where education is free and/or far more accessible it makes perfect sense. \nYour brain is better equipped to learn when you’re young. it’s a way to get into professions that you couldn’t start without studying. And there aren’t other life stresses like kids and careers in the way (usually). Studying young makes perfect sense.", ">\n\nThat is only in a few countries. In Argentina not only you gain the right(not the obligation yet) to vote at 16 you can drink and smoke at 18, you also gain the obligation to vote at 18 (yes, is mandatory to vote, if you dont you have to pay a small fine).\nTo add college is free so its a no brainer to go to college and start your degree.\nAnother reason to do college that fast its because its a bit easier to study if you come directly from high school. The pandemic made it harder for me to study because I lost the routine of going to class and the time spent there.", ">\n\nPersonally If I had taken a year or so off after high school I’m not sure I would’ve gone back to college. I was still in the school/education mindset and it would’ve been hard to get back into it. Even after I graduated with an undergrad degree someone mentioned going back for a graduate degree, and there would jsut be no way.", ">\n\nAll by design. If you wait til you're 30 to move out on your own and start a family, they're losing $$$$ on your mortgage and college housing expenses for those 10 ish years. I know some people stay home for college to save money, but most are moving out at 17/18 and going into debt immediately.\nWe can also talk about how they use the media and propaganda to break up homes.\nIt's all about $$$$", ">\n\nSo? Legalise drinking and smoking at 21. Hell that's legal at 16 in a lot of countries", ">\n\nJesus Christ 18 year olds can go to war and you’re saying it’s cruel to give them an education?", ">\n\nNo that’s really not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying it’s cruel that they have to incur this amount of debt to receive an education", ">\n\nIs it also problematic that we don't let 14 year olds decide to drop out of high school? And it's not like college is in anyway mandatory, it's just the next stage of school after high school. You don't have to go, it's just a very good idea for you to. As for the whole \"think about what they're missing out on\", I would be much more worried about what they're missing out on by not going to college.\nAlso, the comment about 300k debt is just so entirely beside the point. 99.9% of college students don't ever go anywhere near that level of debt, and those that do are usually going to law-school/medical school. Regardless, if we think this is a problem the obvious solution is to make college more affordable, not encourage people to forgo college. I also don't see why this decision is anymore serious than any other sort of decision we allow 18 year olds to make (to get married, to join the military, to start a business/get a job, etc.). I don't see why college is so special.", ">\n\nYou are conflating together two separate concepts. One is going to college at 18 years old, an age that is fairly universal for collegiate studies. The other is going into debt to attend the college of their choosing.\nThe latter is a choice which can certainly have long term poor consequences. Or not. One does not have to attend and fully self-fund a private education at an out-of-state institution. If one's grades and achievement is not sufficient to reduce that cost to something reasonable, then one should look at other opportunities. And that is a life lesson as well.", ">\n\nYes, you are correct. However, given this is how it is in the US, I think that it is probably smart to hold off a bit on immediately going into school", ">\n\nThat should definitely be an option. I remember an engineering lab partner who was in his thirties. He went back to school later in life and he was one of the best students I ever worked with. He had a lot of real work experience and I learned as much from his habits and traits as I did from the class.", ">\n\n\nWe actively encourage kids to place themselves into binding contracts\n\nWhat universities force you to sign \"binding contracts\"? Are you under the impression that they will pursue legal action if you drop out after one semester or something?\n\nof their lives paying back up to 300k in student loans.\n\nThe majority of schools cost a tiny, tiny fraction of this. The only possible way of getting that much debt would be to get multiple/extended degrees from one of the most expensive schools or just blowing money away on dumb stuff. Which 18 years olds can also do. Why should an 18 year old be able to buy a 50k car but not spend 10k on tuition to a top school?\n\nHow is an 18 year old, who is legally barely capable of anything\n\n18 year olds in most countries/states can do just about everything a 50 year old can save for a few small exceptions. They are legally an adult in 99.9% of ways. They can enter into contracts, make large purchases, sign a lease, sign up for car payments, get a mortgage, vote, become a legal guardian etc.\n18 year olds can spend a ton of money on just about anything, and spending it on college is one of the smartest ways to drop 10-30k.", ">\n\nI just want to know where you live that an 18-year-old can't smoke. Isn't the legal age to buy cigarettes (and weed in Colorado) 18?", ">\n\nNope. 21 everywhere", ">\n\nWell I'll be damned. A lot has changed since I was 18, apparently. I mean, it HAS been a minute.\nAs for the question CMV in question - I'm not sure that clarity necessarily comes with age, but it would definitely be nice to have the option to \"start over\" in your 40s when you maybe have a better idea of what rings your bell. But what would I have been doing between 18 and 40? Living at home with my mom? I guess my point is that \"adulthood\" has to start somewhere and for some arbitrary reason we picked 18...", ">\n\nI think your way of thinking is very America centric which fair that’s where you grew up. \nBut college is definitely not that expensive everywhere. And many many people can’t really wait around to be sure of what they wanna do as they have to earn to survive. \nCollege and getting to do what you please is a luxury that many don’t have. \nNot saying you can’t take your time or do something else but don’t think that it’s an issue everyone faces.", ">\n\nYes I am sorry I’m ranting about America", ">\n\nIts cruel and predatory in the sense there are so many pitfall degrees out there. It's not nessesarily predatory on the people telling you to go to college so much as it is on the institutions extracting cash from students who go because they are told to go at every level.\nIt's entirely possible you go into college, get a degree, and just become a debt slave because you entered a degree program that has virtually no employable skills. \nIt's not nessesarily the fault of people who tell you to go and went pre 2008 because there weren't so many pitfall degrees and it wasn't so bad loan wise either.", ">\n\nBecause college benefits them long term, while drugs literally kill them??? \nI do think it is wrong to make people feel bad for NOT going, but to simply encourage them to keep the ball rolling is to hope for the best for them. Though I do think more emphasis should be on encouraging them to simply find their own way to success (whether it be college, trade school, or being a hippie surfer dude living in a van). Happiness SHOULD be how we measure personal success in an ideal society, but we live under the iron fist of capitalism, so money is ALL that matters if you want to survive here, let alone be happy.", ">\n\nYes, yes it is.", ">\n\nWell the problem is that \"pressure\" is in the form of college education being seen as the only secure method of social maintenance, let alone social advancement. \n18 year olds might not understand the specific legalese, but they know pretty dang well that it's some form of post high school education or being relegated to either minimum wage or higher because of hazard pay conditions lifestyle until they \"think better of it.\"\nThat pressure ain't societal, it's economic, parents will stop pushing kids into degree paths when a degree is no longer all but required for any first seen path to a decent standard of living, meaning companies have to stop requiring it for jobs that don't need it, which means that the feds would need to standardize and monopolize job applications to force companies to comply with not requiring bachelor's degrees for jobs that don't need it, because the only way the whiny middle manager butt munchers would ever is with the threat of a prison sentence for hiring discrimination hanging over their head.", ">\n\nHow about we lower the drinking and smoking age instead? People who are 18 are adults who are capable of making adult decisions. That includes where to go to college, what major to choose and how much to spend. It isn't cruel or predatory for 18 year olds to go to college, it's been happening in the US en masse for nearly a century.", ">\n\n\nWe say that this is because their decision making faculties are not yet fully developed so they need to wait.\nSo where is this logic when it applies to college?? \n\nSince their decision making faculties are not fully developed society makes many decisions for them. They decide that they cannot drink or smoke.\nOnly about 1/3rd of young people go to college. For those 1/3rd we decide that college is a good investment.\n\nHow is an 18 year old, who is legally barely capable of anything, understand the true implications of such a decision? \n\nan 18 year old can understand this. you'll rack up, on average 37k in debt and on average make 36k extra per year. (according to cursory google searches).\nThere are predatory schools out there, private for profit schools which produce poor outcomes for unfairly large tuitions. Pressuring a kid to go to a predatory school is obviously predator, but your local state school is almost certainly a good investment for anyone who is academically strong.\nfor the 2/3rds of kids who academics are not strong enough, we generally recommend other paths. Trade schools, 2 year degrees, apprenticeships, etc.", ">\n\nNo one forces you. I took a few years off in between while serving in the military.", ">\n\nfact is, education is very very difficult. it seems easy when you are young because you literally do it every day for 6 hours and you do it baby steps at a time. so if you were to stop for 1 year, most people would not be able to go back to that old grueling life style of education. that's why college must be nonstop right after high school. it's not predatory. nobody is making you go at 18, you can go at 19. most don't do it because their parents know it's bad.", ">\n\nIs your issue with college? \nOr with the cost of college?", ">\n\nMomentum. If you take a break from school, you’ll find it exponentially more difficult to return. You’re being “encouraged”, not forced. Get schooling out of the way, then get on with life….", ">\n\nAnyways, here are some responses I have to some comments I’ve seen a lot of. \n1: college students fresh out of high school are more likely to continue to grind, therefore making completing a degree easier for them than it would be for an older adult with other responsibilities outside of school. \nI completely agree with this point! It is definitely easier to complete school right from high school because it is what is familiar to them. \nI think the problem is that a lot of individuals are “grinding” without an overarching goal, which oftentimes leads to some sort of existential crisis and burnout. “Sophomore blues” don’t exist without a reason. I think it is easier for people to do what they must when they have clear goals in mind. It is already starting to take the average undergrad 5 years to complete a degree due to changing majors and academic leave. People who know what they’re there to do usually make more use out of their experience and have more discipline. But yes, it can definitely be harder to keep up with the pace while juggling more responsibilities.\n2: this is an American problem. \nTrue, and we envy you! It is definitely wise for US citizens looking to go to college to look into doing their schooling abroad these days (even though I understand you might not want us lol). \n3: 300k is inaccurate\nYeah, my bad. I’m definitely in the wrong there. \nSomething I will throw in there, though, is that many college graduates are starting to go to graduate school with the belief that it will bring them financial stability, which oftentimes easily pushes tuition fees past the 100k mark. \n4: the return is better with a college degree\nYes, many studies point to this. However, depending on your career choice, getting started as young as possible may serve you better for future returns. \nSomeone wrote something about how people aren’t going to college to do their “influencing” careers (or something with crypto). This is not what I mean by a career—I am talking about a career path with steady income and employment that is not based on some component of luck in order to make it big. \nWhen it comes to four year colleges, I am also talking about how we don’t inform teens on precautionary measures they can take to reduce their debt—I don’t mean that teens should completely avoid college. Students can take prerequisite courses at community colleges in order to avoid taking these same classes at a higher cost at a college or university. We don’t really help teens find ways they can lessen the blow of loans, and yeah, I do find that kind of cruel. \n5: I think it’s unjust that 18 year olds can go to college but can’t smoke. \nNo, I just find it interesting that we think 18 year olds aren’t responsible enough to make many decisions (those were examples, maybe bad ones) yet it is completely normalized for 18 year olds to take on significant amounts of debt for schooling. When it comes to many other matters, the consensus is that 18 year olds are too naïve or unaware of what they are doing to the point of which we actually bar them from taking various actions to protect them. We tend to think 18 year olds have a very poor gauge of money and its value. \nSomeone wrote a good point that 18 year olds are able to make other financial decisions such as taking out loans on cars, marriage, and applying for credit. My response is that these decisions are, for the most part, actually highly discouraged for 18 year olds to make. People generally think that 18 year olds should avoid taking out loans on things they can’t afford/repay and most 18 year olds who buy cars only buy them outright. I don’t know a single person who thinks getting married before 25 is acceptable, and credit limits are incredibly low for 18 year olds because most of them make little to no income. Therefore, I find it odd that society encourages teens to take on student debt (a loan that, for the most part, the repayment of is uncertain) and view those who do otherwise as “not caring” for their future. Kids in college who are paying money and don’t care about their future are making a far worse choice. \n6: going to college puts you around good influences and gives you plenty of networking opportunities. \nI mean, sure I guess? You can find bad people anywhere, and I wouldn’t call the binge drinking or hazing cultures that take place at colleges influential. In fact, at many of these wealthy institutions kids do a lot more drugs than most people outside of college who can’t afford boatloads of coke. \nAlso, this idea that the “good people are in college” comes from the same sentiment that stigmatizes teens who do not attend college. Also, I think it’s pretty weird that people seem to think that successful networking is only done in college. You can form connections to anyone anywhere, really (also, as someone who is around a lot of people who call making friends “networking”, it seems pretty superficial). \n7: people figure themselves out in college. \nThis is subjective, and there are many less expensive (maybe even free!) ways to develop your sense of identity and goals in life. Speaking for myself, I figured out my direction in life entirely outside of university and college feels like a fever dream. I can’t give an objective response to this point but I don’t agree that adolescents can only “find themselves” in this bubble that is quite detached from real life. \nOverall, what I’m saying is that college is becoming less and less the “right choice” for a lot of people: the degree market is oversaturated, the undergraduate unemployment rate is growing, and job security is rapidly on the decline. I think these reasons make a good case for teens to explore alternative options such as trade schools (job growth out of trade schools are growing rapidly) and rethink whether college is pivotal or not to their personal and financial success. Yeah, I do find it pretty cruel that we throw kids into making these decisions when they are, for the most part, ill-informed. It’s especially messed up when we all kind of know that college tuition in the US is fucking ridiculous and a bachelor’s degree doesn’t hold the same value it used to. \nMy apologies for the typos, I’m writing this from my phone\ntldr: worded post wrong, against loans and not so much school, but hate the stigma around not going to school", ">\n\nYour title suggests that you take issue with the education, but really what you're talking about is debt. Presumably, you don't think that societal pressure to attend college would be bad if it were free, like it is in many countries, right?\nMy point is that some people will get free or heavily subsidized higher education and some people's families can afford to pay for college without taking out loans. If we don't allow the less fortunate people (those who have less money or live in places where college is more expensive) to take out loans to fund their education, then they'd be placed at an even greater disadvantage. The loans are a way of leveling the playing field.\nThat being said, there really does need to be some reform in the way higher education is financed in the US.", ">\n\nI agree. I changed my major twice, graduated and only now realized I want to do a complete different thing", ">\n\nEveryone’s different. For me, i needed to keep momentum or id fall apart", ">\n\nThat’s true. I was so discombobulated—I needed to understand what I was doing there first", ">\n\nI get why, when you have a house to pay for and a job, you dont really have the time. And if you managed to have a kid, even worse. Less people would probably go to college if they didn't go right away. Not to mention, being away from school for 4+ years, you likely forget a lot of things you learned from hs.\nThough I didnt go right away, and I know many who didnt.", ">\n\nMy question is - if not continuing education, then what?\nNo point or great ability to start a career right after high school. If you feel you'll likely end up in college, why start a career that you'll end up having to leave?\nIf not working, parents are footing the bill for their 18 year old to do - what? If they're going to pay for cost of living I would think the preference would be for that living to be WHILE pursuing education, not just teaching them to live off someone else's dime.\nThe gap year for travel and soul searching only works if the 18yr of has saved up for it and/or if parents foot the bill - which again, as a parent myself - I'd much rather pay for college than for a wordwide hostile tour.\nYes, debt isn't great and 18 is young, but I have yet to hear a better alternative", ">\n\nNo it’s not. You have a finite number of good years to be able to have the energy to learn your trade to a high level of competence. Past your early to mid 30’s things get harder because you will likely pick up commitments with your personal life plus work. People need to experience a lot of things quickly- like in about 5 years tops and then commit to learning and executing. That’s kind of 18-23. After that , you’d want to have at least an idea of what you want to do with yourself and commit to it. Keep on putting off a business idea, a trade, a career- whatever it is you like the sound of- and it will eventually be late enough in the day that you will be more likely to give up than to press on. \nThere’s stories about guys who’ve started successful businesses etc in their middle age (Ray Kroc from McDonald’s was about 50 when he made it big) but those are only the exceptions, not the rule.", ">\n\nI honestly believe the inverse. Kids are in school for TOO long. Think about it. You have kids spend 12 years of their lives with free mandatory education then by the time they are working age they are unable to contribute to any specialized workforce without a significant financial contribution and MORE education! In our highly specialized society kids have no wiggle room in regard to the timeframe in which they can pick a skill. I think we need to emphasize specialization much earlier on and allow kids to experiment and gain experience while their education is government sponsored.", ">\n\nThis whole argument falls apart in the removal of student loans. \nWhich of course is predatory. \nBut it's not predatory to expect 18-19-20 year olds to make decisions for themselves.", ">\n\nWell, it’s not as if the student loans are going to be removed, so I don’t exactly see how this critical point can just be taken out of the argument", ">\n\nWhat I mean is the issue you have seems to be more with student loans, and less of the expectation that 18-19-20 year olds to make lasting decisions on their life. \nThe cost of college can be easily mitigated by:\n\n\nScholarships\n\n\nCollege Funds \n\n\nCommunity College/4-Year college hybrid\n\n\nWhere you live, especially since the predatory industry is uniquely American\n\n\nProbably some others I'm neglecting to mention. \n\n\nSo yes, student loans are the critical point to your argument, but that's kind of my point.", ">\n\nCapitalism, the earlier kids go to get higher education, to get a job and pay taxes and such the faster government can get more money", ">\n\nIs this an American issue I’m too European to understand?", ">\n\nYes", ">\n\n:(", ">\n\nBut if you weren't in debt up to your eyeballs you would demand fair working conditions and reasonable compensation.", ">\n\n1- please save this and Revisit once you're 30. 2- No, its 100% LOGICAL to keep going and NOT take a break! Id bet that less than 5% of “break year kids“ ended up becoming successful as quickly as their peers that went straight to college! 3- what exactly do u NEED to do on break, that you cant do in college? (😉ahhh nothing but f up right? Lol) 4- kids under 25, ESPECIALLY under 18 need parental guidance--hence why rental car companies dont trust 24yr olds😭)", ">\n\nValid", ">\n\nIf there was some kind of assessment to see if kids are truly ready (emotionally, psychologically, life experiences) for the responsibilities and challenges of college.\nSome kids do a year of travel, but most don't have money for that. I think a \"between high-school & college bootcamp\", that tries to teach kids who didn't have a lot of experience being out on their own would be helpful.", ">\n\nIt is not cruel to encourage young people to better themselves. Whether it is recommending going to college, acquiring life skills, doing a trade, getting a job or any other method really. Bettering yourself while you are young is generally going to lead to better outcomes. People who encourage young people to improve themselves are not being cruel.", ">\n\nThat is not what the post is saying", ">\n\nIt's what the title and original sentiment of op was. It's the most extreme part of the belief, which is why I chose to challenge it.", ">\n\nI believe every 18 year old should do 2 years of community (ameriserve) or military service.", ">\n\nThanks for the insight", ">\n\nCollege is the most traumatic thing that can happen to anyone, and (if I ignore all your apologies) you are right. No young person deserves that amount of pain. My mum, who didn’t go to college, is already telling my 5yo nephew that he should. When he is closer to the age of finishing high school, I will set him straight, instead of brainwashing him from such a young age.", ">\n\nOver 300 comments on this post and you didn't award a single delta? Nobody changed or adjusted your view in any way?", ">\n\nI have spent a lot of time responding but I will read through.", ">\n\nIn Germany it‘s very common to do a gap year where you go abroad and work a little bit. New Zealand is quite popular for this.\nIt helps you to figure stuff out. And the university itself is only like 600€ per year, so that helps too. In that situation it makes sense to start early, as it‘s easiest to continue your study routine.", ">\n\nI'm writing from an Israeli perspective. \nIn Israel, the accepted route is this one: at the age of 18 we go to the army to serve for 2-3 years (sometimes more). after that, we usually go for a long trip, something like 4 months-1 year around the world (usually we go to South America, India, or to Southeast Asia). and only after that, at the age of approximately 22-23, we go to college. \nAs an Israeli I think it makes much more sense.", ">\n\nSo the student loan problem can really be predatory so I’ll concede that but financial ignorance can generally be just as predatory across any age group. Some of the financial statistics out there are pretty wild. That’s not to cheapen this but to point out that generally as a country seemingly not making horrible financial decisions can be difficult for us.\nBiggest point I wanted to dig into was the idea of a student not knowing what they wanted to do. While anecdotal I’ve spoken to thousands of people in a professional capacity and have only met a handful that specifically wanted to do something then strived to accomplish it. For many people career choice was a combination of earning potential, passing course load and the work itself not boring them to death. My point is many older people didn’t suddenly learn what they wanted to do. Many tried a few things and narrowed it down. I studied accounting in college and tried it for 2 years and determined it wasn’t for me lol. I reinvented myself would going to college and do something pretty different now. I’ve met countless people with similar stories from all over the place and most didn’t go back to school. I’ve met plenty of trades people that would absolutely do something else if they could and earn a similar income.", ">\n\nAgreed in that many 18 years olds have no clue what they want to do.\nHowever I'm assuming you're based in America because of the no drinking/smoking thing. But I'm guessing you do it anyway?\nIn some ways uni students are better off than British ones. You get to study loads of subjects and 'choose your major' and generally experiment with loads of classes. In the UK you pick your subject and that's it for the whole 3 years unless you fancy your chances starting again. At least you guys get a bit more choice.\nAnd who forced you to go? You decided to go to uni. You may have felt like you had no other choice but you didn't have to go.", ">\n\nWhile many people suggest the issue lies in not educating the youth about things like loans and adulting in general, I’m still 100% with you that it is cruel to enforce a social norm for all 18 year olds to go to college immediately because they “should”. Even if finances aren’t a big concern, the American Education System, specifically in higher education such as college and grad school have many faults, and it shouldn’t be expected of everyone to partake in that corrupt system, even if they are fully educated and aware of the student loan process.", ">\n\nThe problem is not pushing kids to go to college right after high school. That's the best time in life to get further education. \nThe problem is that, specifically in USA, education stops being free after High School. \nYou're on the right track, that putting college graduates in such immense debt is predatory, but you're barking up the wrong tree. Instead of pushing kids away from college, you should be pushing for free college education.", ">\n\nSociety benefits from having a more educated population...so it is a good thing to push young adults toward more education. At the same time, it is important to note that college isnt for everyone, as you mentioned...but I think that that young people should give it a shot and become a bit more educated. Sure, they could graduate and work at a store and try to work themselves up the corporate ladder...but eventually they will hit a education barrier. Loans allow people to go to school and give it a try. They can pay it back with their higher earnings post graduation once they become what they wanted to...whether that is a Engineer, Programmer, or Management. The ones that struggle are the ones that dont realize that what you study in school matters...a lot. Taking loans and using that money to study something not productive and in demand is a recipe for struggle.", ">\n\nThey need to be a adult at some point.", ">\n\nBeing an adult ≠ going to college", ">\n\n\nSomeone wrote a good point that 18 year olds are able to make other financial decisions such as taking out loans on cars, marriage, and applying for credit. My response is that these decisions are, for the most part, actually highly discouraged for 18 year olds to make. People generally think that 18 year olds should avoid taking out loans on things they can’t afford/repay and most 18 year olds who buy cars only buy them outright. I don’t know a single person who thinks getting married before 25 is acceptable, and credit limits are incredibly low for 18 year olds because most of them make little to no income. Therefore, I find it odd that society encourages teens to take on student debt (a loan that, for the most part, the repayment of is uncertain) and view those who do otherwise as “not caring” for their future. Kids in college who are paying money and don’t care about their future are making a far worse choice.\n\nI have a couple of issues with your response to this argument.\nWhile it is highly discouraged to take out large loans on a car, take out a large line of credit, get married, etc, I think you massively downplay the incredible returns that college has on average. Over the course of a lifetime, college graduates make $900,000 (for men)/$630,000 (for women), than high school graduates. (source) For comparison, the average 4 year debt for a bachelor's degree is about $31,000 (source) . \nTo your point about repayment being uncertain, when you look at the data on the subject, student loan delinquency is a minority case and those who don't complete their degree are more likely to be delinquent. About 8% of those who complete their bachelor's degree are student loan delinquent. (source)\nSo, the reason why we don't encourage the other things that include large loans and encourage college instead is because 1) a car doesn't increase in value and is generally not an investment and marriage can be an investment but most people after high school do not have a stable enough income stream to make it work. Other types of loans that 18 year olds can take out just aren't investments with the same type of returns that college has.", ">\n\nDon't like my opinion? Like these little petty games? Then it seems my time would be more beneficial for me spent somewhere else. Enjoy yourself and your agenda.", ">\n\nWhat?", ">\n\nNot all countries are like the US where post-secondary education costs can be extortionate. In many European countries, post-secondary education is either free-of-charge or the annual cost is low enough to not be a debt trap (e.g. in the Netherlands it's less than 3000 euros annually). \nIn those countries, is it cruel/predatory to encourage a post-secondary path immediately after graduating high school?", ">\n\nYou know what it means to lack a sense of humor, right?", ">\n\nMaybe a year of service, military, or nursing homes, or national parks, etc mandatory at 18.", ">\n\n\nthey can’t drink or smoke\n\nThey should be able to drink; making the limit 21 was a way to reduce underage drinking in high schools. Underage drinking happens in college too, since the limit is 21, but that's OK because 18-year-olds drinking isn't actually a problem. It's high schoolers shouldn't be drinking. As for smoking, it's a similar idea here: don't let high schoolers smoke, and this will cause fewer people to be smokers later in life. You don't magically gain the ability of judgment when you're 21; the government just couldn't justify raising the age any higher without just making tobacco illegal. And it's working; a lot fewer people smoke now than when I was a kid.\n\nThey are barely able to vote and don’t gain too many legal privileges until they are actually 21 years old.\n\nThat's not true. The only one that's actually relevant here in terms of legal \"privileges\" is the ability to buy alcohol. The ability to buy tobacco is stupid and nobody should be doing it in the first place, so who cares what the age limit is? 18-year-olds are legal adults: they can live on their own and make their own decisions, they are treated as adults in contract law, sexual relations, and criminal law, they can join the armed forces, etc. It's completely reasonable for an 18-year-old to enter into a long-term loan.\nWhat's not reasonable is for college to cost that much to the student. College itself is very good and it's definitely the correct place for 18-year-olds to go after high school. But costs are simply ridiculous. All public college should be completely free and high-quality. There should be a nationwide system of public universities with competitive admissions -- you know, like basically every other country. Saddling people with lifelong debts is basically unconscionable, but it's not like raising the age at which you do this would help really anyone at all (unless it's for something like a mandatory year or two of service before college, where \"service\" doesn't have to be military necessarily).", ">\n\nJoin the military. It’s not hard . Do a 4 years , make friends for life and end up getting tuition paid while they also pay you to be a full time student . \nWorking on my bas now and it will feel hundreds of times better when I finish knowing mommy and daddy didn’t pay for it", ">\n\nBut I don’t want to", ">\n\nThen your post has nothing to do with the process being “cruel and predatory” \nYou just want handouts" ]

[]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside..." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside..." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ..." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy..." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one.", ">\n\nHa ha . No honor among theives or white supremacists." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one.", ">\n\nHa ha . No honor among theives or white supremacists.", ">\n\nLol, I can picture AOC in a stall trying to hold in the laughter listening to these two go at it." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one.", ">\n\nHa ha . No honor among theives or white supremacists.", ">\n\nLol, I can picture AOC in a stall trying to hold in the laughter listening to these two go at it.", ">\n\nLet the circular firing squad begin!" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one.", ">\n\nHa ha . No honor among theives or white supremacists.", ">\n\nLol, I can picture AOC in a stall trying to hold in the laughter listening to these two go at it.", ">\n\nLet the circular firing squad begin!", ">\n\nMad because she refused to stay bribed?" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one.", ">\n\nHa ha . No honor among theives or white supremacists.", ">\n\nLol, I can picture AOC in a stall trying to hold in the laughter listening to these two go at it.", ">\n\nLet the circular firing squad begin!", ">\n\nMad because she refused to stay bribed?", ">\n\nI feel bad for noticing that someone with that face is McCarthy's bulldog." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one.", ">\n\nHa ha . No honor among theives or white supremacists.", ">\n\nLol, I can picture AOC in a stall trying to hold in the laughter listening to these two go at it.", ">\n\nLet the circular firing squad begin!", ">\n\nMad because she refused to stay bribed?", ">\n\nI feel bad for noticing that someone with that face is McCarthy's bulldog.", ">\n\nI mean, in her defense, I'd happily take millions from any Republican candidate, then still refuse to vote for them. 😃" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one.", ">\n\nHa ha . No honor among theives or white supremacists.", ">\n\nLol, I can picture AOC in a stall trying to hold in the laughter listening to these two go at it.", ">\n\nLet the circular firing squad begin!", ">\n\nMad because she refused to stay bribed?", ">\n\nI feel bad for noticing that someone with that face is McCarthy's bulldog.", ">\n\nI mean, in her defense, I'd happily take millions from any Republican candidate, then still refuse to vote for them. 😃", ">\n\nA heated argument between two gun nuts and no metal detectors,.this isn't going to end well." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one.", ">\n\nHa ha . No honor among theives or white supremacists.", ">\n\nLol, I can picture AOC in a stall trying to hold in the laughter listening to these two go at it.", ">\n\nLet the circular firing squad begin!", ">\n\nMad because she refused to stay bribed?", ">\n\nI feel bad for noticing that someone with that face is McCarthy's bulldog.", ">\n\nI mean, in her defense, I'd happily take millions from any Republican candidate, then still refuse to vote for them. 😃", ">\n\nA heated argument between two gun nuts and no metal detectors,.this isn't going to end well.", ">\n\nBoth of these women are second term congress people. Their primary job is to be the reality tv star distraction from the actual moves by the GOP do not fall for it." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one.", ">\n\nHa ha . No honor among theives or white supremacists.", ">\n\nLol, I can picture AOC in a stall trying to hold in the laughter listening to these two go at it.", ">\n\nLet the circular firing squad begin!", ">\n\nMad because she refused to stay bribed?", ">\n\nI feel bad for noticing that someone with that face is McCarthy's bulldog.", ">\n\nI mean, in her defense, I'd happily take millions from any Republican candidate, then still refuse to vote for them. 😃", ">\n\nA heated argument between two gun nuts and no metal detectors,.this isn't going to end well.", ">\n\nBoth of these women are second term congress people. Their primary job is to be the reality tv star distraction from the actual moves by the GOP do not fall for it.", ">\n\nThey r gonna fist fight w in the next 6 months when Boebert calls her the pipe bomber" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one.", ">\n\nHa ha . No honor among theives or white supremacists.", ">\n\nLol, I can picture AOC in a stall trying to hold in the laughter listening to these two go at it.", ">\n\nLet the circular firing squad begin!", ">\n\nMad because she refused to stay bribed?", ">\n\nI feel bad for noticing that someone with that face is McCarthy's bulldog.", ">\n\nI mean, in her defense, I'd happily take millions from any Republican candidate, then still refuse to vote for them. 😃", ">\n\nA heated argument between two gun nuts and no metal detectors,.this isn't going to end well.", ">\n\nBoth of these women are second term congress people. Their primary job is to be the reality tv star distraction from the actual moves by the GOP do not fall for it.", ">\n\nThey r gonna fist fight w in the next 6 months when Boebert calls her the pipe bomber", ">\n\nThis all sounds like a WWE grudge. I’m waiting for Vince McMahon to announce a cage match between the two of them" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one.", ">\n\nHa ha . No honor among theives or white supremacists.", ">\n\nLol, I can picture AOC in a stall trying to hold in the laughter listening to these two go at it.", ">\n\nLet the circular firing squad begin!", ">\n\nMad because she refused to stay bribed?", ">\n\nI feel bad for noticing that someone with that face is McCarthy's bulldog.", ">\n\nI mean, in her defense, I'd happily take millions from any Republican candidate, then still refuse to vote for them. 😃", ">\n\nA heated argument between two gun nuts and no metal detectors,.this isn't going to end well.", ">\n\nBoth of these women are second term congress people. Their primary job is to be the reality tv star distraction from the actual moves by the GOP do not fall for it.", ">\n\nThey r gonna fist fight w in the next 6 months when Boebert calls her the pipe bomber", ">\n\nThis all sounds like a WWE grudge. I’m waiting for Vince McMahon to announce a cage match between the two of them", ">\n\nUsing our money for corrupted deals? No, not the Republicans!" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one.", ">\n\nHa ha . No honor among theives or white supremacists.", ">\n\nLol, I can picture AOC in a stall trying to hold in the laughter listening to these two go at it.", ">\n\nLet the circular firing squad begin!", ">\n\nMad because she refused to stay bribed?", ">\n\nI feel bad for noticing that someone with that face is McCarthy's bulldog.", ">\n\nI mean, in her defense, I'd happily take millions from any Republican candidate, then still refuse to vote for them. 😃", ">\n\nA heated argument between two gun nuts and no metal detectors,.this isn't going to end well.", ">\n\nBoth of these women are second term congress people. Their primary job is to be the reality tv star distraction from the actual moves by the GOP do not fall for it.", ">\n\nThey r gonna fist fight w in the next 6 months when Boebert calls her the pipe bomber", ">\n\nThis all sounds like a WWE grudge. I’m waiting for Vince McMahon to announce a cage match between the two of them", ">\n\nUsing our money for corrupted deals? No, not the Republicans!", ">\n\nI need millions. Is McCarthy still handing out money?" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one.", ">\n\nHa ha . No honor among theives or white supremacists.", ">\n\nLol, I can picture AOC in a stall trying to hold in the laughter listening to these two go at it.", ">\n\nLet the circular firing squad begin!", ">\n\nMad because she refused to stay bribed?", ">\n\nI feel bad for noticing that someone with that face is McCarthy's bulldog.", ">\n\nI mean, in her defense, I'd happily take millions from any Republican candidate, then still refuse to vote for them. 😃", ">\n\nA heated argument between two gun nuts and no metal detectors,.this isn't going to end well.", ">\n\nBoth of these women are second term congress people. Their primary job is to be the reality tv star distraction from the actual moves by the GOP do not fall for it.", ">\n\nThey r gonna fist fight w in the next 6 months when Boebert calls her the pipe bomber", ">\n\nThis all sounds like a WWE grudge. I’m waiting for Vince McMahon to announce a cage match between the two of them", ">\n\nUsing our money for corrupted deals? No, not the Republicans!", ">\n\nI need millions. Is McCarthy still handing out money?", ">\n\nWhy do they allow predators like this into our restrooms?" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one.", ">\n\nHa ha . No honor among theives or white supremacists.", ">\n\nLol, I can picture AOC in a stall trying to hold in the laughter listening to these two go at it.", ">\n\nLet the circular firing squad begin!", ">\n\nMad because she refused to stay bribed?", ">\n\nI feel bad for noticing that someone with that face is McCarthy's bulldog.", ">\n\nI mean, in her defense, I'd happily take millions from any Republican candidate, then still refuse to vote for them. 😃", ">\n\nA heated argument between two gun nuts and no metal detectors,.this isn't going to end well.", ">\n\nBoth of these women are second term congress people. Their primary job is to be the reality tv star distraction from the actual moves by the GOP do not fall for it.", ">\n\nThey r gonna fist fight w in the next 6 months when Boebert calls her the pipe bomber", ">\n\nThis all sounds like a WWE grudge. I’m waiting for Vince McMahon to announce a cage match between the two of them", ">\n\nUsing our money for corrupted deals? No, not the Republicans!", ">\n\nI need millions. Is McCarthy still handing out money?", ">\n\nWhy do they allow predators like this into our restrooms?", ">\n\ngrifters gonna grift" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one.", ">\n\nHa ha . No honor among theives or white supremacists.", ">\n\nLol, I can picture AOC in a stall trying to hold in the laughter listening to these two go at it.", ">\n\nLet the circular firing squad begin!", ">\n\nMad because she refused to stay bribed?", ">\n\nI feel bad for noticing that someone with that face is McCarthy's bulldog.", ">\n\nI mean, in her defense, I'd happily take millions from any Republican candidate, then still refuse to vote for them. 😃", ">\n\nA heated argument between two gun nuts and no metal detectors,.this isn't going to end well.", ">\n\nBoth of these women are second term congress people. Their primary job is to be the reality tv star distraction from the actual moves by the GOP do not fall for it.", ">\n\nThey r gonna fist fight w in the next 6 months when Boebert calls her the pipe bomber", ">\n\nThis all sounds like a WWE grudge. I’m waiting for Vince McMahon to announce a cage match between the two of them", ">\n\nUsing our money for corrupted deals? No, not the Republicans!", ">\n\nI need millions. Is McCarthy still handing out money?", ">\n\nWhy do they allow predators like this into our restrooms?", ">\n\ngrifters gonna grift", ">\n\nIf McCarthy was stupid enough to trust a promise from another Republican, then he deserved to get scammed." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one.", ">\n\nHa ha . No honor among theives or white supremacists.", ">\n\nLol, I can picture AOC in a stall trying to hold in the laughter listening to these two go at it.", ">\n\nLet the circular firing squad begin!", ">\n\nMad because she refused to stay bribed?", ">\n\nI feel bad for noticing that someone with that face is McCarthy's bulldog.", ">\n\nI mean, in her defense, I'd happily take millions from any Republican candidate, then still refuse to vote for them. 😃", ">\n\nA heated argument between two gun nuts and no metal detectors,.this isn't going to end well.", ">\n\nBoth of these women are second term congress people. Their primary job is to be the reality tv star distraction from the actual moves by the GOP do not fall for it.", ">\n\nThey r gonna fist fight w in the next 6 months when Boebert calls her the pipe bomber", ">\n\nThis all sounds like a WWE grudge. I’m waiting for Vince McMahon to announce a cage match between the two of them", ">\n\nUsing our money for corrupted deals? No, not the Republicans!", ">\n\nI need millions. Is McCarthy still handing out money?", ">\n\nWhy do they allow predators like this into our restrooms?", ">\n\ngrifters gonna grift", ">\n\nIf McCarthy was stupid enough to trust a promise from another Republican, then he deserved to get scammed.", ">\n\nSo MTG is saying money for votes, no euphemisms needed." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one.", ">\n\nHa ha . No honor among theives or white supremacists.", ">\n\nLol, I can picture AOC in a stall trying to hold in the laughter listening to these two go at it.", ">\n\nLet the circular firing squad begin!", ">\n\nMad because she refused to stay bribed?", ">\n\nI feel bad for noticing that someone with that face is McCarthy's bulldog.", ">\n\nI mean, in her defense, I'd happily take millions from any Republican candidate, then still refuse to vote for them. 😃", ">\n\nA heated argument between two gun nuts and no metal detectors,.this isn't going to end well.", ">\n\nBoth of these women are second term congress people. Their primary job is to be the reality tv star distraction from the actual moves by the GOP do not fall for it.", ">\n\nThey r gonna fist fight w in the next 6 months when Boebert calls her the pipe bomber", ">\n\nThis all sounds like a WWE grudge. I’m waiting for Vince McMahon to announce a cage match between the two of them", ">\n\nUsing our money for corrupted deals? No, not the Republicans!", ">\n\nI need millions. Is McCarthy still handing out money?", ">\n\nWhy do they allow predators like this into our restrooms?", ">\n\ngrifters gonna grift", ">\n\nIf McCarthy was stupid enough to trust a promise from another Republican, then he deserved to get scammed.", ">\n\nSo MTG is saying money for votes, no euphemisms needed.", ">\n\nHonor among Republicans: \"You were bribed and didn't perform! You're a cheat!\"" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one.", ">\n\nHa ha . No honor among theives or white supremacists.", ">\n\nLol, I can picture AOC in a stall trying to hold in the laughter listening to these two go at it.", ">\n\nLet the circular firing squad begin!", ">\n\nMad because she refused to stay bribed?", ">\n\nI feel bad for noticing that someone with that face is McCarthy's bulldog.", ">\n\nI mean, in her defense, I'd happily take millions from any Republican candidate, then still refuse to vote for them. 😃", ">\n\nA heated argument between two gun nuts and no metal detectors,.this isn't going to end well.", ">\n\nBoth of these women are second term congress people. Their primary job is to be the reality tv star distraction from the actual moves by the GOP do not fall for it.", ">\n\nThey r gonna fist fight w in the next 6 months when Boebert calls her the pipe bomber", ">\n\nThis all sounds like a WWE grudge. I’m waiting for Vince McMahon to announce a cage match between the two of them", ">\n\nUsing our money for corrupted deals? No, not the Republicans!", ">\n\nI need millions. Is McCarthy still handing out money?", ">\n\nWhy do they allow predators like this into our restrooms?", ">\n\ngrifters gonna grift", ">\n\nIf McCarthy was stupid enough to trust a promise from another Republican, then he deserved to get scammed.", ">\n\nSo MTG is saying money for votes, no euphemisms needed.", ">\n\nHonor among Republicans: \"You were bribed and didn't perform! You're a cheat!\"", ">\n\nThis really is some highschool style bullshit..." ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one.", ">\n\nHa ha . No honor among theives or white supremacists.", ">\n\nLol, I can picture AOC in a stall trying to hold in the laughter listening to these two go at it.", ">\n\nLet the circular firing squad begin!", ">\n\nMad because she refused to stay bribed?", ">\n\nI feel bad for noticing that someone with that face is McCarthy's bulldog.", ">\n\nI mean, in her defense, I'd happily take millions from any Republican candidate, then still refuse to vote for them. 😃", ">\n\nA heated argument between two gun nuts and no metal detectors,.this isn't going to end well.", ">\n\nBoth of these women are second term congress people. Their primary job is to be the reality tv star distraction from the actual moves by the GOP do not fall for it.", ">\n\nThey r gonna fist fight w in the next 6 months when Boebert calls her the pipe bomber", ">\n\nThis all sounds like a WWE grudge. I’m waiting for Vince McMahon to announce a cage match between the two of them", ">\n\nUsing our money for corrupted deals? No, not the Republicans!", ">\n\nI need millions. Is McCarthy still handing out money?", ">\n\nWhy do they allow predators like this into our restrooms?", ">\n\ngrifters gonna grift", ">\n\nIf McCarthy was stupid enough to trust a promise from another Republican, then he deserved to get scammed.", ">\n\nSo MTG is saying money for votes, no euphemisms needed.", ">\n\nHonor among Republicans: \"You were bribed and didn't perform! You're a cheat!\"", ">\n\nThis really is some highschool style bullshit...", ">\n\nMAGA civil war" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one.", ">\n\nHa ha . No honor among theives or white supremacists.", ">\n\nLol, I can picture AOC in a stall trying to hold in the laughter listening to these two go at it.", ">\n\nLet the circular firing squad begin!", ">\n\nMad because she refused to stay bribed?", ">\n\nI feel bad for noticing that someone with that face is McCarthy's bulldog.", ">\n\nI mean, in her defense, I'd happily take millions from any Republican candidate, then still refuse to vote for them. 😃", ">\n\nA heated argument between two gun nuts and no metal detectors,.this isn't going to end well.", ">\n\nBoth of these women are second term congress people. Their primary job is to be the reality tv star distraction from the actual moves by the GOP do not fall for it.", ">\n\nThey r gonna fist fight w in the next 6 months when Boebert calls her the pipe bomber", ">\n\nThis all sounds like a WWE grudge. I’m waiting for Vince McMahon to announce a cage match between the two of them", ">\n\nUsing our money for corrupted deals? No, not the Republicans!", ">\n\nI need millions. Is McCarthy still handing out money?", ">\n\nWhy do they allow predators like this into our restrooms?", ">\n\ngrifters gonna grift", ">\n\nIf McCarthy was stupid enough to trust a promise from another Republican, then he deserved to get scammed.", ">\n\nSo MTG is saying money for votes, no euphemisms needed.", ">\n\nHonor among Republicans: \"You were bribed and didn't perform! You're a cheat!\"", ">\n\nThis really is some highschool style bullshit...", ">\n\nMAGA civil war", ">\n\nQuiet part out loud. Don’t think she realized how this sounds. “Why didn’t you let us buy your vote”" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one.", ">\n\nHa ha . No honor among theives or white supremacists.", ">\n\nLol, I can picture AOC in a stall trying to hold in the laughter listening to these two go at it.", ">\n\nLet the circular firing squad begin!", ">\n\nMad because she refused to stay bribed?", ">\n\nI feel bad for noticing that someone with that face is McCarthy's bulldog.", ">\n\nI mean, in her defense, I'd happily take millions from any Republican candidate, then still refuse to vote for them. 😃", ">\n\nA heated argument between two gun nuts and no metal detectors,.this isn't going to end well.", ">\n\nBoth of these women are second term congress people. Their primary job is to be the reality tv star distraction from the actual moves by the GOP do not fall for it.", ">\n\nThey r gonna fist fight w in the next 6 months when Boebert calls her the pipe bomber", ">\n\nThis all sounds like a WWE grudge. I’m waiting for Vince McMahon to announce a cage match between the two of them", ">\n\nUsing our money for corrupted deals? No, not the Republicans!", ">\n\nI need millions. Is McCarthy still handing out money?", ">\n\nWhy do they allow predators like this into our restrooms?", ">\n\ngrifters gonna grift", ">\n\nIf McCarthy was stupid enough to trust a promise from another Republican, then he deserved to get scammed.", ">\n\nSo MTG is saying money for votes, no euphemisms needed.", ">\n\nHonor among Republicans: \"You were bribed and didn't perform! You're a cheat!\"", ">\n\nThis really is some highschool style bullshit...", ">\n\nMAGA civil war", ">\n\nQuiet part out loud. Don’t think she realized how this sounds. “Why didn’t you let us buy your vote”", ">\n\nThey both want that throne" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one.", ">\n\nHa ha . No honor among theives or white supremacists.", ">\n\nLol, I can picture AOC in a stall trying to hold in the laughter listening to these two go at it.", ">\n\nLet the circular firing squad begin!", ">\n\nMad because she refused to stay bribed?", ">\n\nI feel bad for noticing that someone with that face is McCarthy's bulldog.", ">\n\nI mean, in her defense, I'd happily take millions from any Republican candidate, then still refuse to vote for them. 😃", ">\n\nA heated argument between two gun nuts and no metal detectors,.this isn't going to end well.", ">\n\nBoth of these women are second term congress people. Their primary job is to be the reality tv star distraction from the actual moves by the GOP do not fall for it.", ">\n\nThey r gonna fist fight w in the next 6 months when Boebert calls her the pipe bomber", ">\n\nThis all sounds like a WWE grudge. I’m waiting for Vince McMahon to announce a cage match between the two of them", ">\n\nUsing our money for corrupted deals? No, not the Republicans!", ">\n\nI need millions. Is McCarthy still handing out money?", ">\n\nWhy do they allow predators like this into our restrooms?", ">\n\ngrifters gonna grift", ">\n\nIf McCarthy was stupid enough to trust a promise from another Republican, then he deserved to get scammed.", ">\n\nSo MTG is saying money for votes, no euphemisms needed.", ">\n\nHonor among Republicans: \"You were bribed and didn't perform! You're a cheat!\"", ">\n\nThis really is some highschool style bullshit...", ">\n\nMAGA civil war", ">\n\nQuiet part out loud. Don’t think she realized how this sounds. “Why didn’t you let us buy your vote”", ">\n\nThey both want that throne", ">\n\nQuid pro quo?" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one.", ">\n\nHa ha . No honor among theives or white supremacists.", ">\n\nLol, I can picture AOC in a stall trying to hold in the laughter listening to these two go at it.", ">\n\nLet the circular firing squad begin!", ">\n\nMad because she refused to stay bribed?", ">\n\nI feel bad for noticing that someone with that face is McCarthy's bulldog.", ">\n\nI mean, in her defense, I'd happily take millions from any Republican candidate, then still refuse to vote for them. 😃", ">\n\nA heated argument between two gun nuts and no metal detectors,.this isn't going to end well.", ">\n\nBoth of these women are second term congress people. Their primary job is to be the reality tv star distraction from the actual moves by the GOP do not fall for it.", ">\n\nThey r gonna fist fight w in the next 6 months when Boebert calls her the pipe bomber", ">\n\nThis all sounds like a WWE grudge. I’m waiting for Vince McMahon to announce a cage match between the two of them", ">\n\nUsing our money for corrupted deals? No, not the Republicans!", ">\n\nI need millions. Is McCarthy still handing out money?", ">\n\nWhy do they allow predators like this into our restrooms?", ">\n\ngrifters gonna grift", ">\n\nIf McCarthy was stupid enough to trust a promise from another Republican, then he deserved to get scammed.", ">\n\nSo MTG is saying money for votes, no euphemisms needed.", ">\n\nHonor among Republicans: \"You were bribed and didn't perform! You're a cheat!\"", ">\n\nThis really is some highschool style bullshit...", ">\n\nMAGA civil war", ">\n\nQuiet part out loud. Don’t think she realized how this sounds. “Why didn’t you let us buy your vote”", ">\n\nThey both want that throne", ">\n\nQuid pro quo?", ">\n\nFrom the article:\nBoebert told Greene before leaving the bathroom: \"Don't be ugly.\"" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one.", ">\n\nHa ha . No honor among theives or white supremacists.", ">\n\nLol, I can picture AOC in a stall trying to hold in the laughter listening to these two go at it.", ">\n\nLet the circular firing squad begin!", ">\n\nMad because she refused to stay bribed?", ">\n\nI feel bad for noticing that someone with that face is McCarthy's bulldog.", ">\n\nI mean, in her defense, I'd happily take millions from any Republican candidate, then still refuse to vote for them. 😃", ">\n\nA heated argument between two gun nuts and no metal detectors,.this isn't going to end well.", ">\n\nBoth of these women are second term congress people. Their primary job is to be the reality tv star distraction from the actual moves by the GOP do not fall for it.", ">\n\nThey r gonna fist fight w in the next 6 months when Boebert calls her the pipe bomber", ">\n\nThis all sounds like a WWE grudge. I’m waiting for Vince McMahon to announce a cage match between the two of them", ">\n\nUsing our money for corrupted deals? No, not the Republicans!", ">\n\nI need millions. Is McCarthy still handing out money?", ">\n\nWhy do they allow predators like this into our restrooms?", ">\n\ngrifters gonna grift", ">\n\nIf McCarthy was stupid enough to trust a promise from another Republican, then he deserved to get scammed.", ">\n\nSo MTG is saying money for votes, no euphemisms needed.", ">\n\nHonor among Republicans: \"You were bribed and didn't perform! You're a cheat!\"", ">\n\nThis really is some highschool style bullshit...", ">\n\nMAGA civil war", ">\n\nQuiet part out loud. Don’t think she realized how this sounds. “Why didn’t you let us buy your vote”", ">\n\nThey both want that throne", ">\n\nQuid pro quo?", ">\n\nFrom the article:\nBoebert told Greene before leaving the bathroom: \"Don't be ugly.\"", ">\n\nOhhhh Bimbos talking about who is getting paid for their “services”, isn’t this bribery?" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one.", ">\n\nHa ha . No honor among theives or white supremacists.", ">\n\nLol, I can picture AOC in a stall trying to hold in the laughter listening to these two go at it.", ">\n\nLet the circular firing squad begin!", ">\n\nMad because she refused to stay bribed?", ">\n\nI feel bad for noticing that someone with that face is McCarthy's bulldog.", ">\n\nI mean, in her defense, I'd happily take millions from any Republican candidate, then still refuse to vote for them. 😃", ">\n\nA heated argument between two gun nuts and no metal detectors,.this isn't going to end well.", ">\n\nBoth of these women are second term congress people. Their primary job is to be the reality tv star distraction from the actual moves by the GOP do not fall for it.", ">\n\nThey r gonna fist fight w in the next 6 months when Boebert calls her the pipe bomber", ">\n\nThis all sounds like a WWE grudge. I’m waiting for Vince McMahon to announce a cage match between the two of them", ">\n\nUsing our money for corrupted deals? No, not the Republicans!", ">\n\nI need millions. Is McCarthy still handing out money?", ">\n\nWhy do they allow predators like this into our restrooms?", ">\n\ngrifters gonna grift", ">\n\nIf McCarthy was stupid enough to trust a promise from another Republican, then he deserved to get scammed.", ">\n\nSo MTG is saying money for votes, no euphemisms needed.", ">\n\nHonor among Republicans: \"You were bribed and didn't perform! You're a cheat!\"", ">\n\nThis really is some highschool style bullshit...", ">\n\nMAGA civil war", ">\n\nQuiet part out loud. Don’t think she realized how this sounds. “Why didn’t you let us buy your vote”", ">\n\nThey both want that throne", ">\n\nQuid pro quo?", ">\n\nFrom the article:\nBoebert told Greene before leaving the bathroom: \"Don't be ugly.\"", ">\n\nOhhhh Bimbos talking about who is getting paid for their “services”, isn’t this bribery?", ">\n\n2 teenagers still going at it. You both suck" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one.", ">\n\nHa ha . No honor among theives or white supremacists.", ">\n\nLol, I can picture AOC in a stall trying to hold in the laughter listening to these two go at it.", ">\n\nLet the circular firing squad begin!", ">\n\nMad because she refused to stay bribed?", ">\n\nI feel bad for noticing that someone with that face is McCarthy's bulldog.", ">\n\nI mean, in her defense, I'd happily take millions from any Republican candidate, then still refuse to vote for them. 😃", ">\n\nA heated argument between two gun nuts and no metal detectors,.this isn't going to end well.", ">\n\nBoth of these women are second term congress people. Their primary job is to be the reality tv star distraction from the actual moves by the GOP do not fall for it.", ">\n\nThey r gonna fist fight w in the next 6 months when Boebert calls her the pipe bomber", ">\n\nThis all sounds like a WWE grudge. I’m waiting for Vince McMahon to announce a cage match between the two of them", ">\n\nUsing our money for corrupted deals? No, not the Republicans!", ">\n\nI need millions. Is McCarthy still handing out money?", ">\n\nWhy do they allow predators like this into our restrooms?", ">\n\ngrifters gonna grift", ">\n\nIf McCarthy was stupid enough to trust a promise from another Republican, then he deserved to get scammed.", ">\n\nSo MTG is saying money for votes, no euphemisms needed.", ">\n\nHonor among Republicans: \"You were bribed and didn't perform! You're a cheat!\"", ">\n\nThis really is some highschool style bullshit...", ">\n\nMAGA civil war", ">\n\nQuiet part out loud. Don’t think she realized how this sounds. “Why didn’t you let us buy your vote”", ">\n\nThey both want that throne", ">\n\nQuid pro quo?", ">\n\nFrom the article:\nBoebert told Greene before leaving the bathroom: \"Don't be ugly.\"", ">\n\nOhhhh Bimbos talking about who is getting paid for their “services”, isn’t this bribery?", ">\n\n2 teenagers still going at it. You both suck", ">\n\nWhich one is MAGA" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one.", ">\n\nHa ha . No honor among theives or white supremacists.", ">\n\nLol, I can picture AOC in a stall trying to hold in the laughter listening to these two go at it.", ">\n\nLet the circular firing squad begin!", ">\n\nMad because she refused to stay bribed?", ">\n\nI feel bad for noticing that someone with that face is McCarthy's bulldog.", ">\n\nI mean, in her defense, I'd happily take millions from any Republican candidate, then still refuse to vote for them. 😃", ">\n\nA heated argument between two gun nuts and no metal detectors,.this isn't going to end well.", ">\n\nBoth of these women are second term congress people. Their primary job is to be the reality tv star distraction from the actual moves by the GOP do not fall for it.", ">\n\nThey r gonna fist fight w in the next 6 months when Boebert calls her the pipe bomber", ">\n\nThis all sounds like a WWE grudge. I’m waiting for Vince McMahon to announce a cage match between the two of them", ">\n\nUsing our money for corrupted deals? No, not the Republicans!", ">\n\nI need millions. Is McCarthy still handing out money?", ">\n\nWhy do they allow predators like this into our restrooms?", ">\n\ngrifters gonna grift", ">\n\nIf McCarthy was stupid enough to trust a promise from another Republican, then he deserved to get scammed.", ">\n\nSo MTG is saying money for votes, no euphemisms needed.", ">\n\nHonor among Republicans: \"You were bribed and didn't perform! You're a cheat!\"", ">\n\nThis really is some highschool style bullshit...", ">\n\nMAGA civil war", ">\n\nQuiet part out loud. Don’t think she realized how this sounds. “Why didn’t you let us buy your vote”", ">\n\nThey both want that throne", ">\n\nQuid pro quo?", ">\n\nFrom the article:\nBoebert told Greene before leaving the bathroom: \"Don't be ugly.\"", ">\n\nOhhhh Bimbos talking about who is getting paid for their “services”, isn’t this bribery?", ">\n\n2 teenagers still going at it. You both suck", ">\n\nWhich one is MAGA", ">\n\nFight fight fight" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one.", ">\n\nHa ha . No honor among theives or white supremacists.", ">\n\nLol, I can picture AOC in a stall trying to hold in the laughter listening to these two go at it.", ">\n\nLet the circular firing squad begin!", ">\n\nMad because she refused to stay bribed?", ">\n\nI feel bad for noticing that someone with that face is McCarthy's bulldog.", ">\n\nI mean, in her defense, I'd happily take millions from any Republican candidate, then still refuse to vote for them. 😃", ">\n\nA heated argument between two gun nuts and no metal detectors,.this isn't going to end well.", ">\n\nBoth of these women are second term congress people. Their primary job is to be the reality tv star distraction from the actual moves by the GOP do not fall for it.", ">\n\nThey r gonna fist fight w in the next 6 months when Boebert calls her the pipe bomber", ">\n\nThis all sounds like a WWE grudge. I’m waiting for Vince McMahon to announce a cage match between the two of them", ">\n\nUsing our money for corrupted deals? No, not the Republicans!", ">\n\nI need millions. Is McCarthy still handing out money?", ">\n\nWhy do they allow predators like this into our restrooms?", ">\n\ngrifters gonna grift", ">\n\nIf McCarthy was stupid enough to trust a promise from another Republican, then he deserved to get scammed.", ">\n\nSo MTG is saying money for votes, no euphemisms needed.", ">\n\nHonor among Republicans: \"You were bribed and didn't perform! You're a cheat!\"", ">\n\nThis really is some highschool style bullshit...", ">\n\nMAGA civil war", ">\n\nQuiet part out loud. Don’t think she realized how this sounds. “Why didn’t you let us buy your vote”", ">\n\nThey both want that throne", ">\n\nQuid pro quo?", ">\n\nFrom the article:\nBoebert told Greene before leaving the bathroom: \"Don't be ugly.\"", ">\n\nOhhhh Bimbos talking about who is getting paid for their “services”, isn’t this bribery?", ">\n\n2 teenagers still going at it. You both suck", ">\n\nWhich one is MAGA", ">\n\nFight fight fight", ">\n\nLol that’s kinda funny" ]

[ "Bizarrely Boebert is correct in this one: donations to campaigns should not influence their votes.\nMTG is basically admitting that she's part of the swamp and beholden to special interests", ">\n\nMan, what a strange world when I agree with Bo Bo the Clown", ">\n\nIf you can't eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and \nthen vote against them you've got no business being up here.\n— Jesse Unruh", ">\n\nBoebert and MTG giving us Unruh radition", ">\n\nYour link isn't working", ">\n\n“I just needed one square, and they wanted a vote for it.”", ">\n\nCouldn't spare it.", ">\n\nNot a square to spare.", ">\n\nCan’t you spare just one square?", ">\n\nTwo trailer park girls go round the outside, round the outside...", ">\n\nTake my GD upvote. That made me cackle. Ty", ">\n\nround the outside...", ">\n\nIf I wrote for SNL I would take the bathroom scene from Euphoria and throw these two in it. \nMean girls never grow up, they just change bathrooms.", ">\n\nHas to end with Boebert's husband opening the stall door to expose himself.", ">\n\nThis is like her shitty hero origin story ...", ">\n\nThis is setting up for some kind of MMA match, isn't it.", ">\n\nOh yeah, but knowing the Republicans, gotta be in mud, baby oil or wet t-shirts", ">\n\nOr jello.", ">\n\nOr K-Y", ">\n\nWhen your vote is influenced by someone giving you money, that is called a bribe. MTG just outright admitted to accepting bribes in exchange for votes in a way that is illegal even by our governments shitty standards.", ">\n\nIf something is against the law but you aren't punished for doing it, is it really illegal?", ">\n\n\"You take a man's money, you put out when he needs it! That's the Ho Code!\"- MTG probably.", ">\n\nHonestly, this is a refreshing change back to how it's always been. The current climate of passive aggressive bullshit has given way to something more direct. Honestly, modern conservatives who cheer for this kind of dialogue will find themselves on the ass end of it. They're not prepared for the hellfire that awaits them on the other side of this equation. They mistakenly think themselves the so called 'tough guys' but fail to see that pure muscle matters little in the face of automatic gunfire. What matters is their constitution and willingness to adapt when the going gets tough. For those who have lived under systemic oppression, they've already lived and survived that kind of environment. Those on the other side, have no clue what that's like or how they'll react when faced with such situations.", ">\n\nI'd buy it, MTG is pretty much a stalker. She has stalked David Hogg and AOC.", ">\n\nIf there was a stock called \"whatever republicans say or do, the opposite is true\" and invested my entire lifesavings on it, I'd be filthy rich.", ">\n\nMarge has also gotten into it publicly with a victim of the Parkland shooting and pretty sure she stepped on one of his team members", ">\n\nShe is a bully.", ">\n\nWell with a physique like that who wouldn't be", ">\n\nPersonal appearance shouldn’t be fodder", ">\n\nI mean she opens her mouth and removes all doubt that she's a bully.", ">\n\nThis is high school level drama, wtf is wrong with our politics", ">\n\nThey're a reflection of us? Like it or not?", ">\n\nI bet MTG would throw Kevin down if he doesn’t do what she says. The House is going to be a farce but it will be an entertaining one, so we have that going for us, ig", ">\n\nWasn’t one of the new House rule changes to make it simpler for them to vacate a speaker? It would be a great way to keep McCarthy doing their bidding - stay in line or we bound you!", ">\n\nBoth these women are trash.", ">\n\nThey're both pieces of shit and I can prove it mathematically.", ">\n\nDon't you know how bribes work!!!", ">\n\n*grabs cassette tape, runs *", ">\n\nreason no. 32783t69827680273647863047890 on why lobbying should be considered illegal bribery. otherwise episodes like this will continue. our public servants gleefully discussing the absorbent amount their banks accounts receive from \"donations\" from their \"donors\"\nwhat a privileged world none of us gets to live in", ">\n\n*exorbitant", ">\n\nYou took millions you should be bought by now. Hmm…", ">\n\nMcCarthy got completely bamboozled, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.", ">\n\nDoes anyone else think this is all staged bullshit to detract from the next grift?", ">\n\nI find it odd that MTG is attempting to distance herself from the “freedom” caucus, and Q etc despite easily winning re-election, while Boefart is doubling down despite coming close to losing her seat", ">\n\n“You’re ruining it for the rest of us!”", ">\n\nBegun, The Piss Wars have.", ">\n\n‘Member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMay I suggest pistols at dawn to settle this matter, ladies?", ">\n\nWeren’t a few people pulled away from each other when it got too heated during the Speaker votes? How long until they actually start beating the shit out of each other?", ">\n\nThis is the best arc of the evil Romy and Michele story.", ">\n\nRomy and Michele! Excellent reference. Except in the current Republican version, it’s George Santos that invented Post-Its.", ">\n\nOh this is high school. Ok", ">\n\nAh yes, those two, always so classy...", ">\n\n‘member when everyone in America was taught that grownups are in charge and you have to be mature? \nI ‘member", ">\n\n‘member Celebrity Death Match!?", ">\n\nMy god. The level of trashy that would exist in a room that had these two morons in it would be physically tangible.", ">\n\nThese people couldn't be ethical if they tried.", ">\n\nProving the GOP is only in it for the money! Dirty politics by stupid people!", ">\n\nBoebert is used to taking the money and leaving. One might say she's a pro.", ">\n\n“You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave.”", ">\n\nDoes not pass the Bechdel test.", ">\n\nMTG has adapted her David Hogg ambush skills for Congress.", ">\n\nPlease! Let this end in a gun duel or something!", ">\n\nWhy do we give them any kind of attention? There are important things that happen every single day besides what these children might or might not have done in the bathroom. “Stop making stupid people famous” goes for politics too", ">\n\nUntil these two oxygen thieves start throwing at hands at each other, I am not interested in anything concerning either one.", ">\n\nHa ha . No honor among theives or white supremacists.", ">\n\nLol, I can picture AOC in a stall trying to hold in the laughter listening to these two go at it.", ">\n\nLet the circular firing squad begin!", ">\n\nMad because she refused to stay bribed?", ">\n\nI feel bad for noticing that someone with that face is McCarthy's bulldog.", ">\n\nI mean, in her defense, I'd happily take millions from any Republican candidate, then still refuse to vote for them. 😃", ">\n\nA heated argument between two gun nuts and no metal detectors,.this isn't going to end well.", ">\n\nBoth of these women are second term congress people. Their primary job is to be the reality tv star distraction from the actual moves by the GOP do not fall for it.", ">\n\nThey r gonna fist fight w in the next 6 months when Boebert calls her the pipe bomber", ">\n\nThis all sounds like a WWE grudge. I’m waiting for Vince McMahon to announce a cage match between the two of them", ">\n\nUsing our money for corrupted deals? No, not the Republicans!", ">\n\nI need millions. Is McCarthy still handing out money?", ">\n\nWhy do they allow predators like this into our restrooms?", ">\n\ngrifters gonna grift", ">\n\nIf McCarthy was stupid enough to trust a promise from another Republican, then he deserved to get scammed.", ">\n\nSo MTG is saying money for votes, no euphemisms needed.", ">\n\nHonor among Republicans: \"You were bribed and didn't perform! You're a cheat!\"", ">\n\nThis really is some highschool style bullshit...", ">\n\nMAGA civil war", ">\n\nQuiet part out loud. Don’t think she realized how this sounds. “Why didn’t you let us buy your vote”", ">\n\nThey both want that throne", ">\n\nQuid pro quo?", ">\n\nFrom the article:\nBoebert told Greene before leaving the bathroom: \"Don't be ugly.\"", ">\n\nOhhhh Bimbos talking about who is getting paid for their “services”, isn’t this bribery?", ">\n\n2 teenagers still going at it. You both suck", ">\n\nWhich one is MAGA", ">\n\nFight fight fight", ">\n\nLol that’s kinda funny", ">\n\nMore funny than sad...." ]