Datasets:

---

innovation-hacking2

/

shitposting_dataset3

like 0

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election..." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans..." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\"." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida.", ">\n\nThat didn’t go exactly as planned,…" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida.", ">\n\nThat didn’t go exactly as planned,…", ">\n\nIt's completely ridiculous that Bolsonaro is chilling in Miami somewhere." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida.", ">\n\nThat didn’t go exactly as planned,…", ">\n\nIt's completely ridiculous that Bolsonaro is chilling in Miami somewhere.", ">\n\nThis is what we shouldve done with J6. Max sentences for everyone involved. This slap on the wrist bullshit is going to make it worse next time." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida.", ">\n\nThat didn’t go exactly as planned,…", ">\n\nIt's completely ridiculous that Bolsonaro is chilling in Miami somewhere.", ">\n\nThis is what we shouldve done with J6. Max sentences for everyone involved. This slap on the wrist bullshit is going to make it worse next time.", ">\n\nWhere was this energy after the Jan 6 insurrection" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida.", ">\n\nThat didn’t go exactly as planned,…", ">\n\nIt's completely ridiculous that Bolsonaro is chilling in Miami somewhere.", ">\n\nThis is what we shouldve done with J6. Max sentences for everyone involved. This slap on the wrist bullshit is going to make it worse next time.", ">\n\nWhere was this energy after the Jan 6 insurrection", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida.", ">\n\nThat didn’t go exactly as planned,…", ">\n\nIt's completely ridiculous that Bolsonaro is chilling in Miami somewhere.", ">\n\nThis is what we shouldve done with J6. Max sentences for everyone involved. This slap on the wrist bullshit is going to make it worse next time.", ">\n\nWhere was this energy after the Jan 6 insurrection", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida.", ">\n\nThat didn’t go exactly as planned,…", ">\n\nIt's completely ridiculous that Bolsonaro is chilling in Miami somewhere.", ">\n\nThis is what we shouldve done with J6. Max sentences for everyone involved. This slap on the wrist bullshit is going to make it worse next time.", ">\n\nWhere was this energy after the Jan 6 insurrection", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nThe real question is if bolsonaro is going to be arrested" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida.", ">\n\nThat didn’t go exactly as planned,…", ">\n\nIt's completely ridiculous that Bolsonaro is chilling in Miami somewhere.", ">\n\nThis is what we shouldve done with J6. Max sentences for everyone involved. This slap on the wrist bullshit is going to make it worse next time.", ">\n\nWhere was this energy after the Jan 6 insurrection", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nThe real question is if bolsonaro is going to be arrested", ">\n\nHe entered the US on a diplomatic visa. He has to change it to a tourist visa, as he is no longer a head of state, or leave the country. My guess is that he's looking at countries without extradition treaties with Brazil as his new residence." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida.", ">\n\nThat didn’t go exactly as planned,…", ">\n\nIt's completely ridiculous that Bolsonaro is chilling in Miami somewhere.", ">\n\nThis is what we shouldve done with J6. Max sentences for everyone involved. This slap on the wrist bullshit is going to make it worse next time.", ">\n\nWhere was this energy after the Jan 6 insurrection", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nThe real question is if bolsonaro is going to be arrested", ">\n\nHe entered the US on a diplomatic visa. He has to change it to a tourist visa, as he is no longer a head of state, or leave the country. My guess is that he's looking at countries without extradition treaties with Brazil as his new residence.", ">\n\nI'm not actually sure how that works. IANAL but, as I understand it, under a diplomatic visa, he's immune to US law but that doesn't mean he's immune to Brazilian law and/or detained and deported as persona non grata. More importantly, as someone under a diplomatic visa for the nation of Brazil, if the present legitimate law enforcement/government of Brazil requests that the US government hand him over, they might not even need a warrant to pick him up and the Brazilians might not even have to go through an extradition process to gain custody of him." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida.", ">\n\nThat didn’t go exactly as planned,…", ">\n\nIt's completely ridiculous that Bolsonaro is chilling in Miami somewhere.", ">\n\nThis is what we shouldve done with J6. Max sentences for everyone involved. This slap on the wrist bullshit is going to make it worse next time.", ">\n\nWhere was this energy after the Jan 6 insurrection", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nThe real question is if bolsonaro is going to be arrested", ">\n\nHe entered the US on a diplomatic visa. He has to change it to a tourist visa, as he is no longer a head of state, or leave the country. My guess is that he's looking at countries without extradition treaties with Brazil as his new residence.", ">\n\nI'm not actually sure how that works. IANAL but, as I understand it, under a diplomatic visa, he's immune to US law but that doesn't mean he's immune to Brazilian law and/or detained and deported as persona non grata. More importantly, as someone under a diplomatic visa for the nation of Brazil, if the present legitimate law enforcement/government of Brazil requests that the US government hand him over, they might not even need a warrant to pick him up and the Brazilians might not even have to go through an extradition process to gain custody of him.", ">\n\nFrom what I read he entered under a diplomatic visa. But as he is no longer a head of state, so he has 30 days to change his diplomatic visa to a tourist visa. The US could approve that visa which would allow him to stay in the US for 180 days, they could deny him a visa and deport him or he can leave on his own accord to a third country.\nThe Brazilian government charging him and asking the US to extradite him would be a whole other can of worms." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida.", ">\n\nThat didn’t go exactly as planned,…", ">\n\nIt's completely ridiculous that Bolsonaro is chilling in Miami somewhere.", ">\n\nThis is what we shouldve done with J6. Max sentences for everyone involved. This slap on the wrist bullshit is going to make it worse next time.", ">\n\nWhere was this energy after the Jan 6 insurrection", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nThe real question is if bolsonaro is going to be arrested", ">\n\nHe entered the US on a diplomatic visa. He has to change it to a tourist visa, as he is no longer a head of state, or leave the country. My guess is that he's looking at countries without extradition treaties with Brazil as his new residence.", ">\n\nI'm not actually sure how that works. IANAL but, as I understand it, under a diplomatic visa, he's immune to US law but that doesn't mean he's immune to Brazilian law and/or detained and deported as persona non grata. More importantly, as someone under a diplomatic visa for the nation of Brazil, if the present legitimate law enforcement/government of Brazil requests that the US government hand him over, they might not even need a warrant to pick him up and the Brazilians might not even have to go through an extradition process to gain custody of him.", ">\n\nFrom what I read he entered under a diplomatic visa. But as he is no longer a head of state, so he has 30 days to change his diplomatic visa to a tourist visa. The US could approve that visa which would allow him to stay in the US for 180 days, they could deny him a visa and deport him or he can leave on his own accord to a third country.\nThe Brazilian government charging him and asking the US to extradite him would be a whole other can of worms.", ">\n\nAmerica so fucking weak at handling domestic terrorists\nTake notes from Brazil" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida.", ">\n\nThat didn’t go exactly as planned,…", ">\n\nIt's completely ridiculous that Bolsonaro is chilling in Miami somewhere.", ">\n\nThis is what we shouldve done with J6. Max sentences for everyone involved. This slap on the wrist bullshit is going to make it worse next time.", ">\n\nWhere was this energy after the Jan 6 insurrection", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nThe real question is if bolsonaro is going to be arrested", ">\n\nHe entered the US on a diplomatic visa. He has to change it to a tourist visa, as he is no longer a head of state, or leave the country. My guess is that he's looking at countries without extradition treaties with Brazil as his new residence.", ">\n\nI'm not actually sure how that works. IANAL but, as I understand it, under a diplomatic visa, he's immune to US law but that doesn't mean he's immune to Brazilian law and/or detained and deported as persona non grata. More importantly, as someone under a diplomatic visa for the nation of Brazil, if the present legitimate law enforcement/government of Brazil requests that the US government hand him over, they might not even need a warrant to pick him up and the Brazilians might not even have to go through an extradition process to gain custody of him.", ">\n\nFrom what I read he entered under a diplomatic visa. But as he is no longer a head of state, so he has 30 days to change his diplomatic visa to a tourist visa. The US could approve that visa which would allow him to stay in the US for 180 days, they could deny him a visa and deport him or he can leave on his own accord to a third country.\nThe Brazilian government charging him and asking the US to extradite him would be a whole other can of worms.", ">\n\nAmerica so fucking weak at handling domestic terrorists\nTake notes from Brazil", ">\n\nNot sure if it’s intentional—but all the picture thumbnails of Bolsonaro supporters I have seen over the past day have been in pure green/yellow and draped with the Brazilian flag. And now this thumbnail where I see like two flags and that’s it, hah.\nJust a weird coincidence for me I suppose following the trending Reddit articles." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida.", ">\n\nThat didn’t go exactly as planned,…", ">\n\nIt's completely ridiculous that Bolsonaro is chilling in Miami somewhere.", ">\n\nThis is what we shouldve done with J6. Max sentences for everyone involved. This slap on the wrist bullshit is going to make it worse next time.", ">\n\nWhere was this energy after the Jan 6 insurrection", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nThe real question is if bolsonaro is going to be arrested", ">\n\nHe entered the US on a diplomatic visa. He has to change it to a tourist visa, as he is no longer a head of state, or leave the country. My guess is that he's looking at countries without extradition treaties with Brazil as his new residence.", ">\n\nI'm not actually sure how that works. IANAL but, as I understand it, under a diplomatic visa, he's immune to US law but that doesn't mean he's immune to Brazilian law and/or detained and deported as persona non grata. More importantly, as someone under a diplomatic visa for the nation of Brazil, if the present legitimate law enforcement/government of Brazil requests that the US government hand him over, they might not even need a warrant to pick him up and the Brazilians might not even have to go through an extradition process to gain custody of him.", ">\n\nFrom what I read he entered under a diplomatic visa. But as he is no longer a head of state, so he has 30 days to change his diplomatic visa to a tourist visa. The US could approve that visa which would allow him to stay in the US for 180 days, they could deny him a visa and deport him or he can leave on his own accord to a third country.\nThe Brazilian government charging him and asking the US to extradite him would be a whole other can of worms.", ">\n\nAmerica so fucking weak at handling domestic terrorists\nTake notes from Brazil", ">\n\nNot sure if it’s intentional—but all the picture thumbnails of Bolsonaro supporters I have seen over the past day have been in pure green/yellow and draped with the Brazilian flag. And now this thumbnail where I see like two flags and that’s it, hah.\nJust a weird coincidence for me I suppose following the trending Reddit articles.", ">\n\nBolsonaro supporters have basically usurped the flag and national symbols for themselves. Nowadays there is a certain set of characteristics associated with people who wear those colors during political actions, the tamest of which being \"conservative\"." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida.", ">\n\nThat didn’t go exactly as planned,…", ">\n\nIt's completely ridiculous that Bolsonaro is chilling in Miami somewhere.", ">\n\nThis is what we shouldve done with J6. Max sentences for everyone involved. This slap on the wrist bullshit is going to make it worse next time.", ">\n\nWhere was this energy after the Jan 6 insurrection", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nThe real question is if bolsonaro is going to be arrested", ">\n\nHe entered the US on a diplomatic visa. He has to change it to a tourist visa, as he is no longer a head of state, or leave the country. My guess is that he's looking at countries without extradition treaties with Brazil as his new residence.", ">\n\nI'm not actually sure how that works. IANAL but, as I understand it, under a diplomatic visa, he's immune to US law but that doesn't mean he's immune to Brazilian law and/or detained and deported as persona non grata. More importantly, as someone under a diplomatic visa for the nation of Brazil, if the present legitimate law enforcement/government of Brazil requests that the US government hand him over, they might not even need a warrant to pick him up and the Brazilians might not even have to go through an extradition process to gain custody of him.", ">\n\nFrom what I read he entered under a diplomatic visa. But as he is no longer a head of state, so he has 30 days to change his diplomatic visa to a tourist visa. The US could approve that visa which would allow him to stay in the US for 180 days, they could deny him a visa and deport him or he can leave on his own accord to a third country.\nThe Brazilian government charging him and asking the US to extradite him would be a whole other can of worms.", ">\n\nAmerica so fucking weak at handling domestic terrorists\nTake notes from Brazil", ">\n\nNot sure if it’s intentional—but all the picture thumbnails of Bolsonaro supporters I have seen over the past day have been in pure green/yellow and draped with the Brazilian flag. And now this thumbnail where I see like two flags and that’s it, hah.\nJust a weird coincidence for me I suppose following the trending Reddit articles.", ">\n\nBolsonaro supporters have basically usurped the flag and national symbols for themselves. Nowadays there is a certain set of characteristics associated with people who wear those colors during political actions, the tamest of which being \"conservative\".", ">\n\nSo apparently you can just arrest insurrectionists without letting them just walk away and go home?" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida.", ">\n\nThat didn’t go exactly as planned,…", ">\n\nIt's completely ridiculous that Bolsonaro is chilling in Miami somewhere.", ">\n\nThis is what we shouldve done with J6. Max sentences for everyone involved. This slap on the wrist bullshit is going to make it worse next time.", ">\n\nWhere was this energy after the Jan 6 insurrection", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nThe real question is if bolsonaro is going to be arrested", ">\n\nHe entered the US on a diplomatic visa. He has to change it to a tourist visa, as he is no longer a head of state, or leave the country. My guess is that he's looking at countries without extradition treaties with Brazil as his new residence.", ">\n\nI'm not actually sure how that works. IANAL but, as I understand it, under a diplomatic visa, he's immune to US law but that doesn't mean he's immune to Brazilian law and/or detained and deported as persona non grata. More importantly, as someone under a diplomatic visa for the nation of Brazil, if the present legitimate law enforcement/government of Brazil requests that the US government hand him over, they might not even need a warrant to pick him up and the Brazilians might not even have to go through an extradition process to gain custody of him.", ">\n\nFrom what I read he entered under a diplomatic visa. But as he is no longer a head of state, so he has 30 days to change his diplomatic visa to a tourist visa. The US could approve that visa which would allow him to stay in the US for 180 days, they could deny him a visa and deport him or he can leave on his own accord to a third country.\nThe Brazilian government charging him and asking the US to extradite him would be a whole other can of worms.", ">\n\nAmerica so fucking weak at handling domestic terrorists\nTake notes from Brazil", ">\n\nNot sure if it’s intentional—but all the picture thumbnails of Bolsonaro supporters I have seen over the past day have been in pure green/yellow and draped with the Brazilian flag. And now this thumbnail where I see like two flags and that’s it, hah.\nJust a weird coincidence for me I suppose following the trending Reddit articles.", ">\n\nBolsonaro supporters have basically usurped the flag and national symbols for themselves. Nowadays there is a certain set of characteristics associated with people who wear those colors during political actions, the tamest of which being \"conservative\".", ">\n\nSo apparently you can just arrest insurrectionists without letting them just walk away and go home?", ">\n\nFuck yeah, I love democracy." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida.", ">\n\nThat didn’t go exactly as planned,…", ">\n\nIt's completely ridiculous that Bolsonaro is chilling in Miami somewhere.", ">\n\nThis is what we shouldve done with J6. Max sentences for everyone involved. This slap on the wrist bullshit is going to make it worse next time.", ">\n\nWhere was this energy after the Jan 6 insurrection", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nThe real question is if bolsonaro is going to be arrested", ">\n\nHe entered the US on a diplomatic visa. He has to change it to a tourist visa, as he is no longer a head of state, or leave the country. My guess is that he's looking at countries without extradition treaties with Brazil as his new residence.", ">\n\nI'm not actually sure how that works. IANAL but, as I understand it, under a diplomatic visa, he's immune to US law but that doesn't mean he's immune to Brazilian law and/or detained and deported as persona non grata. More importantly, as someone under a diplomatic visa for the nation of Brazil, if the present legitimate law enforcement/government of Brazil requests that the US government hand him over, they might not even need a warrant to pick him up and the Brazilians might not even have to go through an extradition process to gain custody of him.", ">\n\nFrom what I read he entered under a diplomatic visa. But as he is no longer a head of state, so he has 30 days to change his diplomatic visa to a tourist visa. The US could approve that visa which would allow him to stay in the US for 180 days, they could deny him a visa and deport him or he can leave on his own accord to a third country.\nThe Brazilian government charging him and asking the US to extradite him would be a whole other can of worms.", ">\n\nAmerica so fucking weak at handling domestic terrorists\nTake notes from Brazil", ">\n\nNot sure if it’s intentional—but all the picture thumbnails of Bolsonaro supporters I have seen over the past day have been in pure green/yellow and draped with the Brazilian flag. And now this thumbnail where I see like two flags and that’s it, hah.\nJust a weird coincidence for me I suppose following the trending Reddit articles.", ">\n\nBolsonaro supporters have basically usurped the flag and national symbols for themselves. Nowadays there is a certain set of characteristics associated with people who wear those colors during political actions, the tamest of which being \"conservative\".", ">\n\nSo apparently you can just arrest insurrectionists without letting them just walk away and go home?", ">\n\nFuck yeah, I love democracy.", ">\n\nSoooo, when are we going to match on Washington to demand prosecution of the criminal Trump?" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida.", ">\n\nThat didn’t go exactly as planned,…", ">\n\nIt's completely ridiculous that Bolsonaro is chilling in Miami somewhere.", ">\n\nThis is what we shouldve done with J6. Max sentences for everyone involved. This slap on the wrist bullshit is going to make it worse next time.", ">\n\nWhere was this energy after the Jan 6 insurrection", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nThe real question is if bolsonaro is going to be arrested", ">\n\nHe entered the US on a diplomatic visa. He has to change it to a tourist visa, as he is no longer a head of state, or leave the country. My guess is that he's looking at countries without extradition treaties with Brazil as his new residence.", ">\n\nI'm not actually sure how that works. IANAL but, as I understand it, under a diplomatic visa, he's immune to US law but that doesn't mean he's immune to Brazilian law and/or detained and deported as persona non grata. More importantly, as someone under a diplomatic visa for the nation of Brazil, if the present legitimate law enforcement/government of Brazil requests that the US government hand him over, they might not even need a warrant to pick him up and the Brazilians might not even have to go through an extradition process to gain custody of him.", ">\n\nFrom what I read he entered under a diplomatic visa. But as he is no longer a head of state, so he has 30 days to change his diplomatic visa to a tourist visa. The US could approve that visa which would allow him to stay in the US for 180 days, they could deny him a visa and deport him or he can leave on his own accord to a third country.\nThe Brazilian government charging him and asking the US to extradite him would be a whole other can of worms.", ">\n\nAmerica so fucking weak at handling domestic terrorists\nTake notes from Brazil", ">\n\nNot sure if it’s intentional—but all the picture thumbnails of Bolsonaro supporters I have seen over the past day have been in pure green/yellow and draped with the Brazilian flag. And now this thumbnail where I see like two flags and that’s it, hah.\nJust a weird coincidence for me I suppose following the trending Reddit articles.", ">\n\nBolsonaro supporters have basically usurped the flag and national symbols for themselves. Nowadays there is a certain set of characteristics associated with people who wear those colors during political actions, the tamest of which being \"conservative\".", ">\n\nSo apparently you can just arrest insurrectionists without letting them just walk away and go home?", ">\n\nFuck yeah, I love democracy.", ">\n\nSoooo, when are we going to match on Washington to demand prosecution of the criminal Trump?", ">\n\nI’m glad the silent majority aren’t silent in Brazil." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida.", ">\n\nThat didn’t go exactly as planned,…", ">\n\nIt's completely ridiculous that Bolsonaro is chilling in Miami somewhere.", ">\n\nThis is what we shouldve done with J6. Max sentences for everyone involved. This slap on the wrist bullshit is going to make it worse next time.", ">\n\nWhere was this energy after the Jan 6 insurrection", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nThe real question is if bolsonaro is going to be arrested", ">\n\nHe entered the US on a diplomatic visa. He has to change it to a tourist visa, as he is no longer a head of state, or leave the country. My guess is that he's looking at countries without extradition treaties with Brazil as his new residence.", ">\n\nI'm not actually sure how that works. IANAL but, as I understand it, under a diplomatic visa, he's immune to US law but that doesn't mean he's immune to Brazilian law and/or detained and deported as persona non grata. More importantly, as someone under a diplomatic visa for the nation of Brazil, if the present legitimate law enforcement/government of Brazil requests that the US government hand him over, they might not even need a warrant to pick him up and the Brazilians might not even have to go through an extradition process to gain custody of him.", ">\n\nFrom what I read he entered under a diplomatic visa. But as he is no longer a head of state, so he has 30 days to change his diplomatic visa to a tourist visa. The US could approve that visa which would allow him to stay in the US for 180 days, they could deny him a visa and deport him or he can leave on his own accord to a third country.\nThe Brazilian government charging him and asking the US to extradite him would be a whole other can of worms.", ">\n\nAmerica so fucking weak at handling domestic terrorists\nTake notes from Brazil", ">\n\nNot sure if it’s intentional—but all the picture thumbnails of Bolsonaro supporters I have seen over the past day have been in pure green/yellow and draped with the Brazilian flag. And now this thumbnail where I see like two flags and that’s it, hah.\nJust a weird coincidence for me I suppose following the trending Reddit articles.", ">\n\nBolsonaro supporters have basically usurped the flag and national symbols for themselves. Nowadays there is a certain set of characteristics associated with people who wear those colors during political actions, the tamest of which being \"conservative\".", ">\n\nSo apparently you can just arrest insurrectionists without letting them just walk away and go home?", ">\n\nFuck yeah, I love democracy.", ">\n\nSoooo, when are we going to match on Washington to demand prosecution of the criminal Trump?", ">\n\nI’m glad the silent majority aren’t silent in Brazil.", ">\n\nAbsolutely\nMake an example, Sedition gets you 20+" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida.", ">\n\nThat didn’t go exactly as planned,…", ">\n\nIt's completely ridiculous that Bolsonaro is chilling in Miami somewhere.", ">\n\nThis is what we shouldve done with J6. Max sentences for everyone involved. This slap on the wrist bullshit is going to make it worse next time.", ">\n\nWhere was this energy after the Jan 6 insurrection", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nThe real question is if bolsonaro is going to be arrested", ">\n\nHe entered the US on a diplomatic visa. He has to change it to a tourist visa, as he is no longer a head of state, or leave the country. My guess is that he's looking at countries without extradition treaties with Brazil as his new residence.", ">\n\nI'm not actually sure how that works. IANAL but, as I understand it, under a diplomatic visa, he's immune to US law but that doesn't mean he's immune to Brazilian law and/or detained and deported as persona non grata. More importantly, as someone under a diplomatic visa for the nation of Brazil, if the present legitimate law enforcement/government of Brazil requests that the US government hand him over, they might not even need a warrant to pick him up and the Brazilians might not even have to go through an extradition process to gain custody of him.", ">\n\nFrom what I read he entered under a diplomatic visa. But as he is no longer a head of state, so he has 30 days to change his diplomatic visa to a tourist visa. The US could approve that visa which would allow him to stay in the US for 180 days, they could deny him a visa and deport him or he can leave on his own accord to a third country.\nThe Brazilian government charging him and asking the US to extradite him would be a whole other can of worms.", ">\n\nAmerica so fucking weak at handling domestic terrorists\nTake notes from Brazil", ">\n\nNot sure if it’s intentional—but all the picture thumbnails of Bolsonaro supporters I have seen over the past day have been in pure green/yellow and draped with the Brazilian flag. And now this thumbnail where I see like two flags and that’s it, hah.\nJust a weird coincidence for me I suppose following the trending Reddit articles.", ">\n\nBolsonaro supporters have basically usurped the flag and national symbols for themselves. Nowadays there is a certain set of characteristics associated with people who wear those colors during political actions, the tamest of which being \"conservative\".", ">\n\nSo apparently you can just arrest insurrectionists without letting them just walk away and go home?", ">\n\nFuck yeah, I love democracy.", ">\n\nSoooo, when are we going to match on Washington to demand prosecution of the criminal Trump?", ">\n\nI’m glad the silent majority aren’t silent in Brazil.", ">\n\nAbsolutely\nMake an example, Sedition gets you 20+", ">\n\nHow about the agitators from the US? Bannon and Miller come to mind." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida.", ">\n\nThat didn’t go exactly as planned,…", ">\n\nIt's completely ridiculous that Bolsonaro is chilling in Miami somewhere.", ">\n\nThis is what we shouldve done with J6. Max sentences for everyone involved. This slap on the wrist bullshit is going to make it worse next time.", ">\n\nWhere was this energy after the Jan 6 insurrection", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nThe real question is if bolsonaro is going to be arrested", ">\n\nHe entered the US on a diplomatic visa. He has to change it to a tourist visa, as he is no longer a head of state, or leave the country. My guess is that he's looking at countries without extradition treaties with Brazil as his new residence.", ">\n\nI'm not actually sure how that works. IANAL but, as I understand it, under a diplomatic visa, he's immune to US law but that doesn't mean he's immune to Brazilian law and/or detained and deported as persona non grata. More importantly, as someone under a diplomatic visa for the nation of Brazil, if the present legitimate law enforcement/government of Brazil requests that the US government hand him over, they might not even need a warrant to pick him up and the Brazilians might not even have to go through an extradition process to gain custody of him.", ">\n\nFrom what I read he entered under a diplomatic visa. But as he is no longer a head of state, so he has 30 days to change his diplomatic visa to a tourist visa. The US could approve that visa which would allow him to stay in the US for 180 days, they could deny him a visa and deport him or he can leave on his own accord to a third country.\nThe Brazilian government charging him and asking the US to extradite him would be a whole other can of worms.", ">\n\nAmerica so fucking weak at handling domestic terrorists\nTake notes from Brazil", ">\n\nNot sure if it’s intentional—but all the picture thumbnails of Bolsonaro supporters I have seen over the past day have been in pure green/yellow and draped with the Brazilian flag. And now this thumbnail where I see like two flags and that’s it, hah.\nJust a weird coincidence for me I suppose following the trending Reddit articles.", ">\n\nBolsonaro supporters have basically usurped the flag and national symbols for themselves. Nowadays there is a certain set of characteristics associated with people who wear those colors during political actions, the tamest of which being \"conservative\".", ">\n\nSo apparently you can just arrest insurrectionists without letting them just walk away and go home?", ">\n\nFuck yeah, I love democracy.", ">\n\nSoooo, when are we going to match on Washington to demand prosecution of the criminal Trump?", ">\n\nI’m glad the silent majority aren’t silent in Brazil.", ">\n\nAbsolutely\nMake an example, Sedition gets you 20+", ">\n\nHow about the agitators from the US? Bannon and Miller come to mind.", ">\n\nMeanwhile in murica, they want their traitors in office!" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida.", ">\n\nThat didn’t go exactly as planned,…", ">\n\nIt's completely ridiculous that Bolsonaro is chilling in Miami somewhere.", ">\n\nThis is what we shouldve done with J6. Max sentences for everyone involved. This slap on the wrist bullshit is going to make it worse next time.", ">\n\nWhere was this energy after the Jan 6 insurrection", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nThe real question is if bolsonaro is going to be arrested", ">\n\nHe entered the US on a diplomatic visa. He has to change it to a tourist visa, as he is no longer a head of state, or leave the country. My guess is that he's looking at countries without extradition treaties with Brazil as his new residence.", ">\n\nI'm not actually sure how that works. IANAL but, as I understand it, under a diplomatic visa, he's immune to US law but that doesn't mean he's immune to Brazilian law and/or detained and deported as persona non grata. More importantly, as someone under a diplomatic visa for the nation of Brazil, if the present legitimate law enforcement/government of Brazil requests that the US government hand him over, they might not even need a warrant to pick him up and the Brazilians might not even have to go through an extradition process to gain custody of him.", ">\n\nFrom what I read he entered under a diplomatic visa. But as he is no longer a head of state, so he has 30 days to change his diplomatic visa to a tourist visa. The US could approve that visa which would allow him to stay in the US for 180 days, they could deny him a visa and deport him or he can leave on his own accord to a third country.\nThe Brazilian government charging him and asking the US to extradite him would be a whole other can of worms.", ">\n\nAmerica so fucking weak at handling domestic terrorists\nTake notes from Brazil", ">\n\nNot sure if it’s intentional—but all the picture thumbnails of Bolsonaro supporters I have seen over the past day have been in pure green/yellow and draped with the Brazilian flag. And now this thumbnail where I see like two flags and that’s it, hah.\nJust a weird coincidence for me I suppose following the trending Reddit articles.", ">\n\nBolsonaro supporters have basically usurped the flag and national symbols for themselves. Nowadays there is a certain set of characteristics associated with people who wear those colors during political actions, the tamest of which being \"conservative\".", ">\n\nSo apparently you can just arrest insurrectionists without letting them just walk away and go home?", ">\n\nFuck yeah, I love democracy.", ">\n\nSoooo, when are we going to match on Washington to demand prosecution of the criminal Trump?", ">\n\nI’m glad the silent majority aren’t silent in Brazil.", ">\n\nAbsolutely\nMake an example, Sedition gets you 20+", ">\n\nHow about the agitators from the US? Bannon and Miller come to mind.", ">\n\nMeanwhile in murica, they want their traitors in office!", ">\n\nSeems like us Americans could learn something from Brazilians reaction about how to handle to an insurrection." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida.", ">\n\nThat didn’t go exactly as planned,…", ">\n\nIt's completely ridiculous that Bolsonaro is chilling in Miami somewhere.", ">\n\nThis is what we shouldve done with J6. Max sentences for everyone involved. This slap on the wrist bullshit is going to make it worse next time.", ">\n\nWhere was this energy after the Jan 6 insurrection", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nThe real question is if bolsonaro is going to be arrested", ">\n\nHe entered the US on a diplomatic visa. He has to change it to a tourist visa, as he is no longer a head of state, or leave the country. My guess is that he's looking at countries without extradition treaties with Brazil as his new residence.", ">\n\nI'm not actually sure how that works. IANAL but, as I understand it, under a diplomatic visa, he's immune to US law but that doesn't mean he's immune to Brazilian law and/or detained and deported as persona non grata. More importantly, as someone under a diplomatic visa for the nation of Brazil, if the present legitimate law enforcement/government of Brazil requests that the US government hand him over, they might not even need a warrant to pick him up and the Brazilians might not even have to go through an extradition process to gain custody of him.", ">\n\nFrom what I read he entered under a diplomatic visa. But as he is no longer a head of state, so he has 30 days to change his diplomatic visa to a tourist visa. The US could approve that visa which would allow him to stay in the US for 180 days, they could deny him a visa and deport him or he can leave on his own accord to a third country.\nThe Brazilian government charging him and asking the US to extradite him would be a whole other can of worms.", ">\n\nAmerica so fucking weak at handling domestic terrorists\nTake notes from Brazil", ">\n\nNot sure if it’s intentional—but all the picture thumbnails of Bolsonaro supporters I have seen over the past day have been in pure green/yellow and draped with the Brazilian flag. And now this thumbnail where I see like two flags and that’s it, hah.\nJust a weird coincidence for me I suppose following the trending Reddit articles.", ">\n\nBolsonaro supporters have basically usurped the flag and national symbols for themselves. Nowadays there is a certain set of characteristics associated with people who wear those colors during political actions, the tamest of which being \"conservative\".", ">\n\nSo apparently you can just arrest insurrectionists without letting them just walk away and go home?", ">\n\nFuck yeah, I love democracy.", ">\n\nSoooo, when are we going to match on Washington to demand prosecution of the criminal Trump?", ">\n\nI’m glad the silent majority aren’t silent in Brazil.", ">\n\nAbsolutely\nMake an example, Sedition gets you 20+", ">\n\nHow about the agitators from the US? Bannon and Miller come to mind.", ">\n\nMeanwhile in murica, they want their traitors in office!", ">\n\nSeems like us Americans could learn something from Brazilians reaction about how to handle to an insurrection.", ">\n\nGood! They should ALL be in jail for YEARS. Not months not a 1 or 2 years minimum 10-15 years. They should NEVER be allowed to vote again when they get out either." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida.", ">\n\nThat didn’t go exactly as planned,…", ">\n\nIt's completely ridiculous that Bolsonaro is chilling in Miami somewhere.", ">\n\nThis is what we shouldve done with J6. Max sentences for everyone involved. This slap on the wrist bullshit is going to make it worse next time.", ">\n\nWhere was this energy after the Jan 6 insurrection", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nThe real question is if bolsonaro is going to be arrested", ">\n\nHe entered the US on a diplomatic visa. He has to change it to a tourist visa, as he is no longer a head of state, or leave the country. My guess is that he's looking at countries without extradition treaties with Brazil as his new residence.", ">\n\nI'm not actually sure how that works. IANAL but, as I understand it, under a diplomatic visa, he's immune to US law but that doesn't mean he's immune to Brazilian law and/or detained and deported as persona non grata. More importantly, as someone under a diplomatic visa for the nation of Brazil, if the present legitimate law enforcement/government of Brazil requests that the US government hand him over, they might not even need a warrant to pick him up and the Brazilians might not even have to go through an extradition process to gain custody of him.", ">\n\nFrom what I read he entered under a diplomatic visa. But as he is no longer a head of state, so he has 30 days to change his diplomatic visa to a tourist visa. The US could approve that visa which would allow him to stay in the US for 180 days, they could deny him a visa and deport him or he can leave on his own accord to a third country.\nThe Brazilian government charging him and asking the US to extradite him would be a whole other can of worms.", ">\n\nAmerica so fucking weak at handling domestic terrorists\nTake notes from Brazil", ">\n\nNot sure if it’s intentional—but all the picture thumbnails of Bolsonaro supporters I have seen over the past day have been in pure green/yellow and draped with the Brazilian flag. And now this thumbnail where I see like two flags and that’s it, hah.\nJust a weird coincidence for me I suppose following the trending Reddit articles.", ">\n\nBolsonaro supporters have basically usurped the flag and national symbols for themselves. Nowadays there is a certain set of characteristics associated with people who wear those colors during political actions, the tamest of which being \"conservative\".", ">\n\nSo apparently you can just arrest insurrectionists without letting them just walk away and go home?", ">\n\nFuck yeah, I love democracy.", ">\n\nSoooo, when are we going to match on Washington to demand prosecution of the criminal Trump?", ">\n\nI’m glad the silent majority aren’t silent in Brazil.", ">\n\nAbsolutely\nMake an example, Sedition gets you 20+", ">\n\nHow about the agitators from the US? Bannon and Miller come to mind.", ">\n\nMeanwhile in murica, they want their traitors in office!", ">\n\nSeems like us Americans could learn something from Brazilians reaction about how to handle to an insurrection.", ">\n\nGood! They should ALL be in jail for YEARS. Not months not a 1 or 2 years minimum 10-15 years. They should NEVER be allowed to vote again when they get out either.", ">\n\nSpeaking at good Portuguese: ANISTIA É O CARALHO" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida.", ">\n\nThat didn’t go exactly as planned,…", ">\n\nIt's completely ridiculous that Bolsonaro is chilling in Miami somewhere.", ">\n\nThis is what we shouldve done with J6. Max sentences for everyone involved. This slap on the wrist bullshit is going to make it worse next time.", ">\n\nWhere was this energy after the Jan 6 insurrection", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nThe real question is if bolsonaro is going to be arrested", ">\n\nHe entered the US on a diplomatic visa. He has to change it to a tourist visa, as he is no longer a head of state, or leave the country. My guess is that he's looking at countries without extradition treaties with Brazil as his new residence.", ">\n\nI'm not actually sure how that works. IANAL but, as I understand it, under a diplomatic visa, he's immune to US law but that doesn't mean he's immune to Brazilian law and/or detained and deported as persona non grata. More importantly, as someone under a diplomatic visa for the nation of Brazil, if the present legitimate law enforcement/government of Brazil requests that the US government hand him over, they might not even need a warrant to pick him up and the Brazilians might not even have to go through an extradition process to gain custody of him.", ">\n\nFrom what I read he entered under a diplomatic visa. But as he is no longer a head of state, so he has 30 days to change his diplomatic visa to a tourist visa. The US could approve that visa which would allow him to stay in the US for 180 days, they could deny him a visa and deport him or he can leave on his own accord to a third country.\nThe Brazilian government charging him and asking the US to extradite him would be a whole other can of worms.", ">\n\nAmerica so fucking weak at handling domestic terrorists\nTake notes from Brazil", ">\n\nNot sure if it’s intentional—but all the picture thumbnails of Bolsonaro supporters I have seen over the past day have been in pure green/yellow and draped with the Brazilian flag. And now this thumbnail where I see like two flags and that’s it, hah.\nJust a weird coincidence for me I suppose following the trending Reddit articles.", ">\n\nBolsonaro supporters have basically usurped the flag and national symbols for themselves. Nowadays there is a certain set of characteristics associated with people who wear those colors during political actions, the tamest of which being \"conservative\".", ">\n\nSo apparently you can just arrest insurrectionists without letting them just walk away and go home?", ">\n\nFuck yeah, I love democracy.", ">\n\nSoooo, when are we going to match on Washington to demand prosecution of the criminal Trump?", ">\n\nI’m glad the silent majority aren’t silent in Brazil.", ">\n\nAbsolutely\nMake an example, Sedition gets you 20+", ">\n\nHow about the agitators from the US? Bannon and Miller come to mind.", ">\n\nMeanwhile in murica, they want their traitors in office!", ">\n\nSeems like us Americans could learn something from Brazilians reaction about how to handle to an insurrection.", ">\n\nGood! They should ALL be in jail for YEARS. Not months not a 1 or 2 years minimum 10-15 years. They should NEVER be allowed to vote again when they get out either.", ">\n\nSpeaking at good Portuguese: ANISTIA É O CARALHO", ">\n\nWait, you can do that? Just arrest insurrectionists like that? AND the leaders of said insurrection? Is that legal!?" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida.", ">\n\nThat didn’t go exactly as planned,…", ">\n\nIt's completely ridiculous that Bolsonaro is chilling in Miami somewhere.", ">\n\nThis is what we shouldve done with J6. Max sentences for everyone involved. This slap on the wrist bullshit is going to make it worse next time.", ">\n\nWhere was this energy after the Jan 6 insurrection", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nThe real question is if bolsonaro is going to be arrested", ">\n\nHe entered the US on a diplomatic visa. He has to change it to a tourist visa, as he is no longer a head of state, or leave the country. My guess is that he's looking at countries without extradition treaties with Brazil as his new residence.", ">\n\nI'm not actually sure how that works. IANAL but, as I understand it, under a diplomatic visa, he's immune to US law but that doesn't mean he's immune to Brazilian law and/or detained and deported as persona non grata. More importantly, as someone under a diplomatic visa for the nation of Brazil, if the present legitimate law enforcement/government of Brazil requests that the US government hand him over, they might not even need a warrant to pick him up and the Brazilians might not even have to go through an extradition process to gain custody of him.", ">\n\nFrom what I read he entered under a diplomatic visa. But as he is no longer a head of state, so he has 30 days to change his diplomatic visa to a tourist visa. The US could approve that visa which would allow him to stay in the US for 180 days, they could deny him a visa and deport him or he can leave on his own accord to a third country.\nThe Brazilian government charging him and asking the US to extradite him would be a whole other can of worms.", ">\n\nAmerica so fucking weak at handling domestic terrorists\nTake notes from Brazil", ">\n\nNot sure if it’s intentional—but all the picture thumbnails of Bolsonaro supporters I have seen over the past day have been in pure green/yellow and draped with the Brazilian flag. And now this thumbnail where I see like two flags and that’s it, hah.\nJust a weird coincidence for me I suppose following the trending Reddit articles.", ">\n\nBolsonaro supporters have basically usurped the flag and national symbols for themselves. Nowadays there is a certain set of characteristics associated with people who wear those colors during political actions, the tamest of which being \"conservative\".", ">\n\nSo apparently you can just arrest insurrectionists without letting them just walk away and go home?", ">\n\nFuck yeah, I love democracy.", ">\n\nSoooo, when are we going to match on Washington to demand prosecution of the criminal Trump?", ">\n\nI’m glad the silent majority aren’t silent in Brazil.", ">\n\nAbsolutely\nMake an example, Sedition gets you 20+", ">\n\nHow about the agitators from the US? Bannon and Miller come to mind.", ">\n\nMeanwhile in murica, they want their traitors in office!", ">\n\nSeems like us Americans could learn something from Brazilians reaction about how to handle to an insurrection.", ">\n\nGood! They should ALL be in jail for YEARS. Not months not a 1 or 2 years minimum 10-15 years. They should NEVER be allowed to vote again when they get out either.", ">\n\nSpeaking at good Portuguese: ANISTIA É O CARALHO", ">\n\nWait, you can do that? Just arrest insurrectionists like that? AND the leaders of said insurrection? Is that legal!?", ">\n\nAll on the same short time span without any pointless theater investigations?!" ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida.", ">\n\nThat didn’t go exactly as planned,…", ">\n\nIt's completely ridiculous that Bolsonaro is chilling in Miami somewhere.", ">\n\nThis is what we shouldve done with J6. Max sentences for everyone involved. This slap on the wrist bullshit is going to make it worse next time.", ">\n\nWhere was this energy after the Jan 6 insurrection", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nThe real question is if bolsonaro is going to be arrested", ">\n\nHe entered the US on a diplomatic visa. He has to change it to a tourist visa, as he is no longer a head of state, or leave the country. My guess is that he's looking at countries without extradition treaties with Brazil as his new residence.", ">\n\nI'm not actually sure how that works. IANAL but, as I understand it, under a diplomatic visa, he's immune to US law but that doesn't mean he's immune to Brazilian law and/or detained and deported as persona non grata. More importantly, as someone under a diplomatic visa for the nation of Brazil, if the present legitimate law enforcement/government of Brazil requests that the US government hand him over, they might not even need a warrant to pick him up and the Brazilians might not even have to go through an extradition process to gain custody of him.", ">\n\nFrom what I read he entered under a diplomatic visa. But as he is no longer a head of state, so he has 30 days to change his diplomatic visa to a tourist visa. The US could approve that visa which would allow him to stay in the US for 180 days, they could deny him a visa and deport him or he can leave on his own accord to a third country.\nThe Brazilian government charging him and asking the US to extradite him would be a whole other can of worms.", ">\n\nAmerica so fucking weak at handling domestic terrorists\nTake notes from Brazil", ">\n\nNot sure if it’s intentional—but all the picture thumbnails of Bolsonaro supporters I have seen over the past day have been in pure green/yellow and draped with the Brazilian flag. And now this thumbnail where I see like two flags and that’s it, hah.\nJust a weird coincidence for me I suppose following the trending Reddit articles.", ">\n\nBolsonaro supporters have basically usurped the flag and national symbols for themselves. Nowadays there is a certain set of characteristics associated with people who wear those colors during political actions, the tamest of which being \"conservative\".", ">\n\nSo apparently you can just arrest insurrectionists without letting them just walk away and go home?", ">\n\nFuck yeah, I love democracy.", ">\n\nSoooo, when are we going to match on Washington to demand prosecution of the criminal Trump?", ">\n\nI’m glad the silent majority aren’t silent in Brazil.", ">\n\nAbsolutely\nMake an example, Sedition gets you 20+", ">\n\nHow about the agitators from the US? Bannon and Miller come to mind.", ">\n\nMeanwhile in murica, they want their traitors in office!", ">\n\nSeems like us Americans could learn something from Brazilians reaction about how to handle to an insurrection.", ">\n\nGood! They should ALL be in jail for YEARS. Not months not a 1 or 2 years minimum 10-15 years. They should NEVER be allowed to vote again when they get out either.", ">\n\nSpeaking at good Portuguese: ANISTIA É O CARALHO", ">\n\nWait, you can do that? Just arrest insurrectionists like that? AND the leaders of said insurrection? Is that legal!?", ">\n\nAll on the same short time span without any pointless theater investigations?!", ">\n\nYeah, I dunno. That doesn’t sound right to me." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida.", ">\n\nThat didn’t go exactly as planned,…", ">\n\nIt's completely ridiculous that Bolsonaro is chilling in Miami somewhere.", ">\n\nThis is what we shouldve done with J6. Max sentences for everyone involved. This slap on the wrist bullshit is going to make it worse next time.", ">\n\nWhere was this energy after the Jan 6 insurrection", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nThe real question is if bolsonaro is going to be arrested", ">\n\nHe entered the US on a diplomatic visa. He has to change it to a tourist visa, as he is no longer a head of state, or leave the country. My guess is that he's looking at countries without extradition treaties with Brazil as his new residence.", ">\n\nI'm not actually sure how that works. IANAL but, as I understand it, under a diplomatic visa, he's immune to US law but that doesn't mean he's immune to Brazilian law and/or detained and deported as persona non grata. More importantly, as someone under a diplomatic visa for the nation of Brazil, if the present legitimate law enforcement/government of Brazil requests that the US government hand him over, they might not even need a warrant to pick him up and the Brazilians might not even have to go through an extradition process to gain custody of him.", ">\n\nFrom what I read he entered under a diplomatic visa. But as he is no longer a head of state, so he has 30 days to change his diplomatic visa to a tourist visa. The US could approve that visa which would allow him to stay in the US for 180 days, they could deny him a visa and deport him or he can leave on his own accord to a third country.\nThe Brazilian government charging him and asking the US to extradite him would be a whole other can of worms.", ">\n\nAmerica so fucking weak at handling domestic terrorists\nTake notes from Brazil", ">\n\nNot sure if it’s intentional—but all the picture thumbnails of Bolsonaro supporters I have seen over the past day have been in pure green/yellow and draped with the Brazilian flag. And now this thumbnail where I see like two flags and that’s it, hah.\nJust a weird coincidence for me I suppose following the trending Reddit articles.", ">\n\nBolsonaro supporters have basically usurped the flag and national symbols for themselves. Nowadays there is a certain set of characteristics associated with people who wear those colors during political actions, the tamest of which being \"conservative\".", ">\n\nSo apparently you can just arrest insurrectionists without letting them just walk away and go home?", ">\n\nFuck yeah, I love democracy.", ">\n\nSoooo, when are we going to match on Washington to demand prosecution of the criminal Trump?", ">\n\nI’m glad the silent majority aren’t silent in Brazil.", ">\n\nAbsolutely\nMake an example, Sedition gets you 20+", ">\n\nHow about the agitators from the US? Bannon and Miller come to mind.", ">\n\nMeanwhile in murica, they want their traitors in office!", ">\n\nSeems like us Americans could learn something from Brazilians reaction about how to handle to an insurrection.", ">\n\nGood! They should ALL be in jail for YEARS. Not months not a 1 or 2 years minimum 10-15 years. They should NEVER be allowed to vote again when they get out either.", ">\n\nSpeaking at good Portuguese: ANISTIA É O CARALHO", ">\n\nWait, you can do that? Just arrest insurrectionists like that? AND the leaders of said insurrection? Is that legal!?", ">\n\nAll on the same short time span without any pointless theater investigations?!", ">\n\nYeah, I dunno. That doesn’t sound right to me.", ">\n\nIsn’t it a sad commentary when Brazil did in days what its taken the US years to equivalently get done. I understand politics plays into to it but I mean God Damn people. We need to get our shit together and let the extremists on both sides of the aisle know that this will not happen again without severe consequences to the perpetrators and also ratchet up the convictions of the remaining J6 idiots. \nThe Federal Police’s press office told The Associated Press that the force plans to indict at least 1,000 people. As of early afternoon, 447 people had been transfered to either a detention center or prison, according to a bulletin from the federal district’s penitenciary administration." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida.", ">\n\nThat didn’t go exactly as planned,…", ">\n\nIt's completely ridiculous that Bolsonaro is chilling in Miami somewhere.", ">\n\nThis is what we shouldve done with J6. Max sentences for everyone involved. This slap on the wrist bullshit is going to make it worse next time.", ">\n\nWhere was this energy after the Jan 6 insurrection", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nThe real question is if bolsonaro is going to be arrested", ">\n\nHe entered the US on a diplomatic visa. He has to change it to a tourist visa, as he is no longer a head of state, or leave the country. My guess is that he's looking at countries without extradition treaties with Brazil as his new residence.", ">\n\nI'm not actually sure how that works. IANAL but, as I understand it, under a diplomatic visa, he's immune to US law but that doesn't mean he's immune to Brazilian law and/or detained and deported as persona non grata. More importantly, as someone under a diplomatic visa for the nation of Brazil, if the present legitimate law enforcement/government of Brazil requests that the US government hand him over, they might not even need a warrant to pick him up and the Brazilians might not even have to go through an extradition process to gain custody of him.", ">\n\nFrom what I read he entered under a diplomatic visa. But as he is no longer a head of state, so he has 30 days to change his diplomatic visa to a tourist visa. The US could approve that visa which would allow him to stay in the US for 180 days, they could deny him a visa and deport him or he can leave on his own accord to a third country.\nThe Brazilian government charging him and asking the US to extradite him would be a whole other can of worms.", ">\n\nAmerica so fucking weak at handling domestic terrorists\nTake notes from Brazil", ">\n\nNot sure if it’s intentional—but all the picture thumbnails of Bolsonaro supporters I have seen over the past day have been in pure green/yellow and draped with the Brazilian flag. And now this thumbnail where I see like two flags and that’s it, hah.\nJust a weird coincidence for me I suppose following the trending Reddit articles.", ">\n\nBolsonaro supporters have basically usurped the flag and national symbols for themselves. Nowadays there is a certain set of characteristics associated with people who wear those colors during political actions, the tamest of which being \"conservative\".", ">\n\nSo apparently you can just arrest insurrectionists without letting them just walk away and go home?", ">\n\nFuck yeah, I love democracy.", ">\n\nSoooo, when are we going to match on Washington to demand prosecution of the criminal Trump?", ">\n\nI’m glad the silent majority aren’t silent in Brazil.", ">\n\nAbsolutely\nMake an example, Sedition gets you 20+", ">\n\nHow about the agitators from the US? Bannon and Miller come to mind.", ">\n\nMeanwhile in murica, they want their traitors in office!", ">\n\nSeems like us Americans could learn something from Brazilians reaction about how to handle to an insurrection.", ">\n\nGood! They should ALL be in jail for YEARS. Not months not a 1 or 2 years minimum 10-15 years. They should NEVER be allowed to vote again when they get out either.", ">\n\nSpeaking at good Portuguese: ANISTIA É O CARALHO", ">\n\nWait, you can do that? Just arrest insurrectionists like that? AND the leaders of said insurrection? Is that legal!?", ">\n\nAll on the same short time span without any pointless theater investigations?!", ">\n\nYeah, I dunno. That doesn’t sound right to me.", ">\n\nIsn’t it a sad commentary when Brazil did in days what its taken the US years to equivalently get done. I understand politics plays into to it but I mean God Damn people. We need to get our shit together and let the extremists on both sides of the aisle know that this will not happen again without severe consequences to the perpetrators and also ratchet up the convictions of the remaining J6 idiots. \nThe Federal Police’s press office told The Associated Press that the force plans to indict at least 1,000 people. As of early afternoon, 447 people had been transfered to either a detention center or prison, according to a bulletin from the federal district’s penitenciary administration.", ">\n\nJan 6th copy cat. These losers deserve the same treatment as the ones in the USA." ]

[ "The key takeaway here is that coddling terrorists does not lead to more stability, but less.", ">\n\nTell that to the USA Congress, only the food soldier are getting prosecuted while the top level agitators where promote to be in charge of the House in Congress.", ">\n\nI hate food soldiers.", ">\n\nTry dipping them in runny fried eggs.", ">\n\nI was at the São Paulo protest. Don't worry world, we got it covered. Bolsonaro will be in jail as soon as the US deports him.", ">\n\nI am a Brazilian living in the US. I am having a hard time finding good sources to share with the family about the election and something that goes over in details why the election was not stolen etc with the other Bolsanaro shit . Do you happen to have anything you could suggest ?", ">\n\nEstadão is a Center-right newspaper and did a good piece on it. If they accuse Estadão of being left-leaning, don't even waste time arguing.\nIn any case, even just plain logic is enough to see that there wasn't any fraud: assuming that PT frauded the elections when Bolsonaro and his minions were in power and very openly using the public machine in their own favor means that it was possible for PT to fraud the election when he won in 2018. If it was possible for PT to fraud the elections they(and any person or entity with their sanity intact) would never have allowed Bolsonaro to be president in the first place.", ">\n\nThanks , unfortunately logic isn't enough. I have to have the concrete facts memorized to be able to dispel the lies. I asked them recently if the fact that all the respected media from the other countries are against Bolsanaro and do not think the election was stolen how can the reconcile that with what they are hearing/believing. I was told that it was globalism agenda against the right.", ">\n\nYour family has been sucked into what I am awkwardly calling the ego chamber. Like an echo chamber, except this is one in which the believer can't let go of the lie, no matter how obvious, because they've tied their own ego to it.\nIf these people admit they were wrong, and that Bolsonaro just lost, they'll have to admit that they lost (because they've tied themselves emotionally to Bolsonaro), that their movement lost, and that, just maybe, all the borderline fascism they've been rationalizing for four years was just cheap fascism, and no different from its prior, discredited iterations.", ">\n\nI think you're spot on. I've been noticing for a while now that the trump/Bolsonaro supporters tend to have really low emotional awareness and, well.. maturity. They tend to react on their emotions, and haven't stopped to think logically about things for YEARS now. \nAnd on top of it all, they're entirely unaware of that reality. They've created this entire framework of \"logic\" (it's definitely not) in their head to rationalize all the glaring inconsistencies away and prevent them from ever seeing what's going on. \nTbh I feel genuinely sorry for them most of the time.. but they're making it really hard lol", ">\n\nI've noticed a trend. The most right-wing ones—the bona fide, self-aware white supremacists and Christian nationalists—are much more likely to admit that Trump is a ghoul, that Green, Boebert, and others in the House are mostly morons or pederasts, and that they support them only because those people are convenient vehicles to achieving their ideological goals.\nMeanwhile, the most delusional MAGA types seem to be people, more often women, who retain a core moral compass and empathy for others, but have gone down the rabbit hole. They suffer from massive cognitive dissonance: On the one hand, they've been convinced that America and its children are under attack by \"global elites,\" a nebulous group that now includes anyone who criticizes fascism. On the other hand, it's very hard for them to avoid the fact that the people who lead their movement—Trump, Gaetz, Bannon, Schlapp, Falwell, various insurrectionists—are sexual assailants, violent criminals, and/or serial fraudsters. Trump is a bragging p*ssy-grabber whose party pal was Jeffrey Epstein, the face of the reviled \"global elite.\" \nMany of these MAGA rank and file want to believe they're fighting to protect children and families from a global conspiracy. They are, I think, motivated by decent core values but grossly deluded. So how do they deal with their cognitive dissonance? By shutting out any inconvenient facts and information sources and burrowing further into the rabbit hole, where fellow cultists and opportunists lie to one another to maintain the fiction that their heroes aren't, for instance, a slovenly pedophile real-estate fraudster from Manhattan.", ">\n\nThe false consciousness of being concerned for 'global elites' but voting for billionaires blows my mind....", ">\n\nThe one that gets me is that my dad believes Trump is a Man of God™ sent by the Laird to guide the country back to Jesus. His literal belief. How he can square that is beyond me, but so is Faith and belief in the supernatural, so its just par for the course, I guess.", ">\n\nAnd ironically that \"Man of God\" has done more damage to the Christian brand than anyone else alive. Entire churches are splitting apart over Trump. As have many families.", ">\n\nLiterally have no voice today because of how loud I was shouting \"NO AMNESTY!\"\nI regret absolutely nothing. \nJail Bolsonaro.", ">\n\nI’m Brazilian but have lived in the U.S. since I was a kid. \nWhere I live I rarely encounter other Brazilians but recently I traveled and was walking down the street and saw a large group of people dressed in Brazilian colors. In the USA, for my whole life, that has meant one thing: Soccer fans!\nI was so excited myself about the upcoming World Cup and my face lit up until I got closer and realized what they were: Bolsonaro supporters, rudely blocking the sidewalk, shouting dumb shit at random Americans, making such a scene and behaving so idiotically that now when I see actual Brazilian soccer fans my heart sinks because I’m worried it’s just more right-wing idiots. \nSo fuck this guy, him and his idiot supporters have taken something from me, taken something from all of us.", ">\n\nIt's the same with US colors now. They used to mean you were celebrating 4th of July or thought that flag shirt looked nice at the gift shop. Now if you see a crowd of US flag wearing people there's a 90% chance they're also carrying Trump 2024 and anti-abortion signs.", ">\n\nSimilar up here in Canada. Those Qonvoyers/Clownvoy/Timbit Taliban/Mook Parade folk are always driving around aggressively with unresolvable amounts of Canadian flags out of every orifice.\nThankfully there are very few of them, but excessive flag waving used to be associated with international hockey tournaments.\nJingoism, or excessive nationalism is associated with populism movements though, or at least that's what I remember from school.", ">\n\nExtreme nationalism is also part of the ideology of fascism. Which these ultra patriotic people are very much trying to display. \nA description of what fascism is for the people in denial", ">\n\nI always like to recommend this essay by Umberto Eco, who lived through italian fascism. Very approachable and not too long either (~9 pages).\nI think it portrays the topic in the beginning more on a personal level and is as such easier to understand for some people. As an introduction it's really fantastic.", ">\n\nWhat should have happened in every town and city Jan 7 in the US. \nEdit: and what 97% of the Republican Members of Congress failed to do EVER", ">\n\nFor real can we just do this retroactively?", ">\n\nI mean we kind of already are doing it retroactively the hard part is figuring out who was there because so many wore masks it takes true patriots to turn them in and it takes a long time to prove they were there before they can be charged", ">\n\nI think the real problem is no one going after the instigators. Trump and hard right media personalities lied to the base for months about election fraud and Republican officials from local reps to US Congress either stayed silent or actively amplified the message. The foot soldiers need to be punished for sure, but so do the generals.", ">\n\nHard to go after them when they didn’t commit any crime unfortunately. Brandenburg v Ohio sets the precedent for these types of cases and it’s a very high standard.\nEdit: Here is 18 USC 2102 the law which their actions concern.\nHere is also 18 USC 2383 the law on insurrection. Here is Brandenburg the famous Supreme Court case. Here is Yates V U.S.. And here is Hess V Indiana for good measure.", ">\n\n147 Republican Congresspeople played an active role in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the legal results of a Presidential election...", ">\n\nVoting against certifying an election isn’t illegal.", ">\n\nWhen that vote is a known part of an effort to spur a constitutional crisis with the aim of illegally installing a ruler, it sure is", ">\n\nAre you seriously suggesting that there are compelled votes in Congress where members can be arrested for voting the “wrong” way? That’s absurd. If it weren’t legal to vote against it they wouldn’t hold the vote in the first place. Your argument is completely constitutionally unsound.\nElection certification votes aren’t show votes where you vote yea or go to jail.", ">\n\nIf it can be shown that they were aware of their vote's role in a seditious conspiracy prior to the vote, then they are absolutely criminally accessory to said conspiracy. They are committing a felony and thereby waiving the normal legal protections afforded them when they are conducting legislative business. \nNo, you don't get to try at a coup and just walk away when it fails.", ">\n\nMan, America looks really weak in comparison for our handling of our capital riot.", ">\n\nEspecially the public response. You need to start getting organized and protesting.", ">\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle? Not disputing your point just saying it would escalate things.\nWe should have stopped Fox News 20 years ago. Now I'm so frustrated with the 30% of us that are right wing nutjobs that the idea of fighting them sounds appealing... which is exactly what the people distributing the propaganda want.\nFeel pretty stuck at this point. I want to talk sense into them but hitting them with a stick would be more effective and satisfying.", ">\n\n\nThe other side shows up with guns and itchy fingers. Then what? We bring our own guns and make it an actual battle?\n\nHave to protect your rights somehow. There are leftist organizations that brings firearms to protests and they never have problems, because the opposition, as always, are cowards. You just have to demonstrate you are willing to protect yourself.", ">\n\nI agree. Just saying it's not as simple as show up and protest.\nWhat if a bunch of armed leftist had been in Kenosha? Could have erupted into an all out gunfight. We're probably already in a civil war, but one massive shootout between both sides at a protest would be the definition of it and would send us spiraling down a violent path we may still be able to avoid.\nEveryone thinks they're tough until their 3 year old kid gets blown up at a gas station. It's not going to be just a bunch of guys with beards shooting each other. Our families will suffer greatly. Civil war is uglier than most redditors recognize. That's all I'm saying.", ">\n\nThere were dozens of battles between citizens before the American Civil War, and there have been dozens of battles that don't lead to any war at all, like the Battle of Blair Mountain. Sometimes conflict is necessary. I think if there were armed leftists at Kenosha and they assumed a purely defensive formation, there would have been no deaths at all, because cowards only shoot at unarmed targets. As soon as their own life is at stake and they can't get away with murder, their bloodthirst subsides.\nMilitary organizations are different, but there aren't nearly enough radical conservatives to form an army, so that really isn't a concern. Mind you the United States military will always be against any would be insurrectionists, so good luck with that. It won't come to war, I promise.", ">\n\nLooks like supporters of the right only believe elections are fair when they win. If they lose its stolen, their new calling card. If it was left wing supporters storming these government buildings I reckon many many would have been shot in Brazil, or if the left did a January 6 then many more of them would have died.", ">\n\n\nIf they lose its stolen, their new calling card\n\nAckshually, they claim it's stolen regardless. But if they win it's stolen because it should be a bigger win/margin, now, if they lose then it was entirely stolen and they should be the ones elected.\nThe brainwash is so strong they (the masses) can't see the stupidity of that argument. Specially when the party losing was the one in power and actively suppressing votes or other related shenanigans...", ">\n\nExactly, when Bolsonaro was elected back in 2018 he still claimed that the elections were fraudulent and he should've won by a larger margin. He also said he had proof, which he obviously never presented.", ">\n\nI have said this since 1/6 happened that Trump will never see any consequences for his actions. The DoJ is too meek and worried about it looking “political” to do anything. The day America starts punishing the rich for their crimes will be the day our country starts the journey back towards being a 1st world country. Prove me wrong", ">\n\nOverturn Citizens united. Make sure the patriot act never comes back. These two things would go a long way to restoring America.", ">\n\nThe only valid use of nuclear weapons is nuking the travesty that is qualified immunity. Nuke that shit so hard.\nThere’s never going to be trust of the police until their crimes are handled properly- like everyone else. Police are civilians. The concept of police internal investigations is morally outrageous. We already have what we need - it’s called jails and courts.", ">\n\nOk wow, Brazil is an unexpected addition to the “countries with more stable democracy than the US” list, but here we are.", ">\n\nAny country where half the population embraces 'ThE biG liE', is a broken democracy. \nAny country where the government, courts and military does it as well, is fucked and about to be destroyed. Rip The US.", ">\n\nLuckily the courts in the US, other than the supreme one anyway, were still fairly reasonable and didn't let Trump win all those lawsuits.", ">\n\nHe didn't just \"not win all\"\nHe \"won\" 1 federal lawsuit....out of 62...related to the election.\nAnd he lost every single one that alleged fraud.", ">\n\nYeah I should've said any rather than all.", ">\n\nJust a little more context to non-brazilians\nBrazil had a US-backed military dictatorship that lasted from 1964 to 1985, in that period, a lot of brazilians that fought the dictatorship were kidnapped, tortured and murdered and had his bodies covered, a lot of them have not been found until now\nIn the redemocratization process, the military leaders passed an amnesty law, that pretty much forgives all crimes commited by the government, so pretty much all of the dictators, tortures and murderes in the armed forces were never punished by their crimes like happened in our south american brothers (go see Argentina 1985, a really great movie that covers the Argenitinian dictators trial).\nSo, after the Lula election, the former Brazil president Michel Temer (that couped a legitimally elected Dilma Rousseff) starts claiming for a new amnesty law in orders to reunite the country after the four years of Bolsonaro, since them, \"sem anistia\" (no amnesty in portuguese) became a popular claim, also seen in Lula inauguration \nA little more context: Bolsonaro, when were just a congressman, in the section that vote the coup against Rousseff dedicated his vote for Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra, the guy who tortured Rousseff during the dictatorship, so in locals like r/brasil is now common to be things like \"if we have arrested the guy who praise a torturer in congress, none of this would happened\"", ">\n\nSo much for the far-right antifa claim. :-) \nThe destruction done by the far-right should be prosecuted, as the far-right demonstrated that they have no respect for anything, regardless of political allegiance.", ">\n\nMan the US failed on a massive level when we look at the exact same scenarios around the world. Doesn’t matter the subject. This is the newest example.", ">\n\nDOJ too scared to indict Trump, who is somehow above the law, apparently", ">\n\nNo, no, i'm sure the indictments will come RIGHT after midterms! Surely!", ">\n\nAmerica has at least one good lesson to offer the world: Prosecute insurrection and treason; don't let the traitors to democracy go unpunished; and certainly don't let the traitors keep their jobs in government.", ">\n\nReally, from what I see most of the January 6th crowd got off with either light punishment or nothing?\nSeems the US is threading very carefully in relations to these traitors.", ">\n\nI think that's what they meant, the lesson being \"Don't do what we did\", the US is an example of what happens when you do not prosecute criminals and politicians supporting them, and thus a lesson to others to do better.", ">\n\nToo bad Germany already demonstrated that lesson in the 1930s but we refuse to learn from it.", ">\n\nWe did worse than Germany in the 1930s...At least Hitler went to prison", ">\n\nJail for all of them that thought they could violently overthrow government. They are literall national traitors and should be treated like any other force of foreign assaulters.", ">\n\nThe usa should follow suit", ">\n\nGood! Shit like what happened in Brasilia shouldn’t be tolerated, just like Jan 6 in the US.", ">\n\nstraight to jail for those fucking scumbag right wing losers.", ">\n\nMAGA Americans- “it was just a peaceful protest threat got out of hand”", ">\n\nThe irony over seeing almost the same conspiratorial bs play out and fail. 🤌", ">\n\nFunny to think that Bolsanero is the queen of news at Fox News HQ", ">\n\nEvery country needs to declare a war on fascism. This is getting out of hand.", ">\n\nGood on Brazil, way to be a b̶a̶c̶o̶n̶ beacon democracy. The USA could learn a thing or two here on how to handle this kind of thing.\nEdit: typo", ">\n\nnow I need a “bacon for democracy” flag", ">\n\nSound like the name of a burger from a non American fastfood chain that sells \"American\" food.\n\"I'll have 3 Bacon for Democracy and two Freedom Fries please.\"", ">\n\n😋", ">\n\n*Terrorists", ">\n\nSally, they won't be considered terrorists under Brazilian law, since our definition of terrorism requires xenophobic, racist or religious motivations", ">\n\nBrazilian terrorism law is less about terrorism and more about crimes against humanity.", ">\n\nLet’s see Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon tried IN BRAZIL for their roles in fomenting and advising this Jan. 6 carbon copy bullshit.", ">\n\nNow we’re talkin’. And extradite that shitbag liar santos back to Brazil to serve time, too.", ">\n\nBrazil, show the world how the United States should have handled Trump’s attempted coup.", ">\n\nHappy cake day", ">\n\nWarms my Heart!", ">\n\nShould be the same for USA. Put that buffalo head guy in for 25 years", ">\n\nInteresting that they know this shit is wrong….but we don’t", ">\n\nOh look, a country with a fucking spine.", ">\n\nNeed to make an example out of them or it will happen again. No mercy for treason.", ">\n\nUh yeah it's the only way forward with strong punishment, leadership of coup sharing cells with them, thorough investigation of government to identify and imprison seditionist sympathizers. See in the US we are too weak to do this our politicians too afraid to put the rich and powerful in prison. Our people are too scared to put pressure on the government for results/justice/stability so we are doomed to fail. Don't be like us.", ">\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting? To overthrow the government? That makes no sense because those building just house the government it isn’t the thing itself. \nTo me it makes zero sense to storm the seat of government, unless of course the army is the one storming but just regular people? Like what, they’re gonna start running things from there? Passing laws and shit… really baffles me.", ">\n\n\nOne thing I don’t understand about this and also Jan 6 is basically what were they expecting?\n\nWhatever they were told to expect. Aspirants to dictatorship can't achieve their goals by \"gentle\" means, so they radicalize a group of core supporters and set them on a collision course with government.\nThey may realize down the line that it's a lost cause, but it's not like they have the power to stop the clown car they set going - smarter ones try to flee into exile first, and dumb ones ride in the front seat.", ">\n\nJail for the masterminds of the American insurrection, too.", ">\n\nIt’s truly incredible watching a country that’s constantly looked down on by the US handle some things far better than how we handle shit here. The US is increasingly a fucking joke", ">\n\nI’m probably too old to see this happen but I do wonder what the world will be like when the U.S. fully embraces fascism and becomes the evil villain of the planet. An evil villain with a massively powerful military and lots of nukes. And extreme right wing fantasies. My bet is those fuckers will destroy all human life on earth.", ">\n\nthis is already how much of the world sees it since vietnam, my man.", ">\n\nFuck YES.\nGood on you, Brazil!", ">\n\nI wish Americans cared that much about the coup attempt that we just had. We got a whole political party that is going to face zero punishment for it, and now they know where their mistakes were, how their plan failed last time, and that when they get a chance to try again, they won't face any consequences if they fail. And you can see they have not backed off of being insane in the slightest little bit. Just listen to MTG anytime she opens her mouth and realize she's still got her job. What do they want to do as soon as they finish their house, speaker fiasco? Why, investigate the DOJ and FBI for investigating their capitol treason, of course. \nSo that's where we're at. With one party openly trying to make this a one party state, Americans completely indifferent to it, and those who even so much as investigate the treason now being treated like they did something wrong, as soon as the traitors got just a little bit of power again. Which, in a sane country, would never happen again, because no one who was complicit in that treason would ever be in a position in the government again.", ">\n\nI was afraid that justice wouldn't be done. And then I remembered that this didn't happen in America. We are the only country who elect TERRORISTS to public office, and call them \"Republicans\" and \"Evangelicals\".", ">\n\nI wish we jailed all the MAGA traitors on Jan 6th, the head clown is still out there spewing crap from Florida.", ">\n\nThat didn’t go exactly as planned,…", ">\n\nIt's completely ridiculous that Bolsonaro is chilling in Miami somewhere.", ">\n\nThis is what we shouldve done with J6. Max sentences for everyone involved. This slap on the wrist bullshit is going to make it worse next time.", ">\n\nWhere was this energy after the Jan 6 insurrection", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nI wish the US defended our democracy half as passionately as the Brazilians protect theirs", ">\n\nThe real question is if bolsonaro is going to be arrested", ">\n\nHe entered the US on a diplomatic visa. He has to change it to a tourist visa, as he is no longer a head of state, or leave the country. My guess is that he's looking at countries without extradition treaties with Brazil as his new residence.", ">\n\nI'm not actually sure how that works. IANAL but, as I understand it, under a diplomatic visa, he's immune to US law but that doesn't mean he's immune to Brazilian law and/or detained and deported as persona non grata. More importantly, as someone under a diplomatic visa for the nation of Brazil, if the present legitimate law enforcement/government of Brazil requests that the US government hand him over, they might not even need a warrant to pick him up and the Brazilians might not even have to go through an extradition process to gain custody of him.", ">\n\nFrom what I read he entered under a diplomatic visa. But as he is no longer a head of state, so he has 30 days to change his diplomatic visa to a tourist visa. The US could approve that visa which would allow him to stay in the US for 180 days, they could deny him a visa and deport him or he can leave on his own accord to a third country.\nThe Brazilian government charging him and asking the US to extradite him would be a whole other can of worms.", ">\n\nAmerica so fucking weak at handling domestic terrorists\nTake notes from Brazil", ">\n\nNot sure if it’s intentional—but all the picture thumbnails of Bolsonaro supporters I have seen over the past day have been in pure green/yellow and draped with the Brazilian flag. And now this thumbnail where I see like two flags and that’s it, hah.\nJust a weird coincidence for me I suppose following the trending Reddit articles.", ">\n\nBolsonaro supporters have basically usurped the flag and national symbols for themselves. Nowadays there is a certain set of characteristics associated with people who wear those colors during political actions, the tamest of which being \"conservative\".", ">\n\nSo apparently you can just arrest insurrectionists without letting them just walk away and go home?", ">\n\nFuck yeah, I love democracy.", ">\n\nSoooo, when are we going to match on Washington to demand prosecution of the criminal Trump?", ">\n\nI’m glad the silent majority aren’t silent in Brazil.", ">\n\nAbsolutely\nMake an example, Sedition gets you 20+", ">\n\nHow about the agitators from the US? Bannon and Miller come to mind.", ">\n\nMeanwhile in murica, they want their traitors in office!", ">\n\nSeems like us Americans could learn something from Brazilians reaction about how to handle to an insurrection.", ">\n\nGood! They should ALL be in jail for YEARS. Not months not a 1 or 2 years minimum 10-15 years. They should NEVER be allowed to vote again when they get out either.", ">\n\nSpeaking at good Portuguese: ANISTIA É O CARALHO", ">\n\nWait, you can do that? Just arrest insurrectionists like that? AND the leaders of said insurrection? Is that legal!?", ">\n\nAll on the same short time span without any pointless theater investigations?!", ">\n\nYeah, I dunno. That doesn’t sound right to me.", ">\n\nIsn’t it a sad commentary when Brazil did in days what its taken the US years to equivalently get done. I understand politics plays into to it but I mean God Damn people. We need to get our shit together and let the extremists on both sides of the aisle know that this will not happen again without severe consequences to the perpetrators and also ratchet up the convictions of the remaining J6 idiots. \nThe Federal Police’s press office told The Associated Press that the force plans to indict at least 1,000 people. As of early afternoon, 447 people had been transfered to either a detention center or prison, according to a bulletin from the federal district’s penitenciary administration.", ">\n\nJan 6th copy cat. These losers deserve the same treatment as the ones in the USA.", ">\n\nBoth deserve worse punishment but are unlikely to receive it here." ]