Datasets:

---

innovation-hacking2

/

shitposting_dataset3

like 0

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s" ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?" ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are)." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?" ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?" ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans" ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?" ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid" ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao" ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education" ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession.", ">\n\nHow about they go after the root of the problem, the government guaranteed loans?" ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession.", ">\n\nHow about they go after the root of the problem, the government guaranteed loans?", ">\n\nKeep the loans, but only give them to people going to colleges that keep their tuition under a certain amount. If they don't want to set their prices reasonably, they don't deserve any federal money." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession.", ">\n\nHow about they go after the root of the problem, the government guaranteed loans?", ">\n\nKeep the loans, but only give them to people going to colleges that keep their tuition under a certain amount. If they don't want to set their prices reasonably, they don't deserve any federal money.", ">\n\nThey could also change the rules. When you graduate highschool, loans can only be applied to a community college.\nThen when you have a two year diploma, transfer to a 4 year school, and you are eligible for undergrad loans.\nAfter 4 years, you have the same degree as everybody else, with much less debt. And if school isn't for you, maybe you can stop after two years and still have something to show for it." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession.", ">\n\nHow about they go after the root of the problem, the government guaranteed loans?", ">\n\nKeep the loans, but only give them to people going to colleges that keep their tuition under a certain amount. If they don't want to set their prices reasonably, they don't deserve any federal money.", ">\n\nThey could also change the rules. When you graduate highschool, loans can only be applied to a community college.\nThen when you have a two year diploma, transfer to a 4 year school, and you are eligible for undergrad loans.\nAfter 4 years, you have the same degree as everybody else, with much less debt. And if school isn't for you, maybe you can stop after two years and still have something to show for it.", ">\n\nCommunity college is a fantastic option, but it does lack certain opportunities. I went the CC route and got a bachelors degree from a state school with something like $7k debt total, which is great. But when I transferred over, I missed out on several intern and research opportunities that were given to students who already knew the faculty, had taken several classes from them, had experience in the appropriate clubs and labs, etc. I found other opportunities, but many of those student positions lead directly to job offers that just aren't available without them. Just a thought." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession.", ">\n\nHow about they go after the root of the problem, the government guaranteed loans?", ">\n\nKeep the loans, but only give them to people going to colleges that keep their tuition under a certain amount. If they don't want to set their prices reasonably, they don't deserve any federal money.", ">\n\nThey could also change the rules. When you graduate highschool, loans can only be applied to a community college.\nThen when you have a two year diploma, transfer to a 4 year school, and you are eligible for undergrad loans.\nAfter 4 years, you have the same degree as everybody else, with much less debt. And if school isn't for you, maybe you can stop after two years and still have something to show for it.", ">\n\nCommunity college is a fantastic option, but it does lack certain opportunities. I went the CC route and got a bachelors degree from a state school with something like $7k debt total, which is great. But when I transferred over, I missed out on several intern and research opportunities that were given to students who already knew the faculty, had taken several classes from them, had experience in the appropriate clubs and labs, etc. I found other opportunities, but many of those student positions lead directly to job offers that just aren't available without them. Just a thought.", ">\n\nPeople on Reddit love to champion community colleges as a one-size fits all solution but there are definitely drawbacks. I taught at a community college for a semester and I wouldn't begin to claim that I had the same resources as a university professor. The students definitely suffer from the lack of resources and opportunities. \nCommunity colleges are often underresourced and trying to fill multiple missions. People forget that the majority of community college students aren't looking to transfer. For a lot of people, the CC is where they get their education for their career or trade. There are a lot of careers that only require a degree or certification from a community college. Those are the students who CCs are best positioned to serve and we should make sure THOSE programs have the resources necessary to prep people for their careers. \nCommunity colleges do not even remotely compare to an actual four year college or university, not in terms of resources in the classrooms or the extracurriculars that they can offer. At a community college, your professor is going to be someone like me, a schmuck with a masters degree who knows enough about a topic to teach an intro class. At a university, your professor is going to be someone actively doing research, with whom you can work and get more knowledge in your field. \nA CC simply does not compare to a university and we're really doing a disservice to lower income kids by suggesting that they're remotely comparable. The whole \"go to CC and transfer\" rhetoric seems like a band-aid on the gushing wound of unaffordability in higher education. \nThis isn't even a knock at community colleges, they deserve more resources to serve the community. They should be able to offer robust trade and career oriented courses and continuing education courses for people in the community. We should stop looking to them as a band-aid on the four year college affordability problem." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession.", ">\n\nHow about they go after the root of the problem, the government guaranteed loans?", ">\n\nKeep the loans, but only give them to people going to colleges that keep their tuition under a certain amount. If they don't want to set their prices reasonably, they don't deserve any federal money.", ">\n\nThey could also change the rules. When you graduate highschool, loans can only be applied to a community college.\nThen when you have a two year diploma, transfer to a 4 year school, and you are eligible for undergrad loans.\nAfter 4 years, you have the same degree as everybody else, with much less debt. And if school isn't for you, maybe you can stop after two years and still have something to show for it.", ">\n\nCommunity college is a fantastic option, but it does lack certain opportunities. I went the CC route and got a bachelors degree from a state school with something like $7k debt total, which is great. But when I transferred over, I missed out on several intern and research opportunities that were given to students who already knew the faculty, had taken several classes from them, had experience in the appropriate clubs and labs, etc. I found other opportunities, but many of those student positions lead directly to job offers that just aren't available without them. Just a thought.", ">\n\nPeople on Reddit love to champion community colleges as a one-size fits all solution but there are definitely drawbacks. I taught at a community college for a semester and I wouldn't begin to claim that I had the same resources as a university professor. The students definitely suffer from the lack of resources and opportunities. \nCommunity colleges are often underresourced and trying to fill multiple missions. People forget that the majority of community college students aren't looking to transfer. For a lot of people, the CC is where they get their education for their career or trade. There are a lot of careers that only require a degree or certification from a community college. Those are the students who CCs are best positioned to serve and we should make sure THOSE programs have the resources necessary to prep people for their careers. \nCommunity colleges do not even remotely compare to an actual four year college or university, not in terms of resources in the classrooms or the extracurriculars that they can offer. At a community college, your professor is going to be someone like me, a schmuck with a masters degree who knows enough about a topic to teach an intro class. At a university, your professor is going to be someone actively doing research, with whom you can work and get more knowledge in your field. \nA CC simply does not compare to a university and we're really doing a disservice to lower income kids by suggesting that they're remotely comparable. The whole \"go to CC and transfer\" rhetoric seems like a band-aid on the gushing wound of unaffordability in higher education. \nThis isn't even a knock at community colleges, they deserve more resources to serve the community. They should be able to offer robust trade and career oriented courses and continuing education courses for people in the community. We should stop looking to them as a band-aid on the four year college affordability problem.", ">\n\nThat sounds like a generalization. My CC had 35k students and many professors were former university professors who no longer wanted to focus on research. \nThere’s always a trade off but I had a great experience." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession.", ">\n\nHow about they go after the root of the problem, the government guaranteed loans?", ">\n\nKeep the loans, but only give them to people going to colleges that keep their tuition under a certain amount. If they don't want to set their prices reasonably, they don't deserve any federal money.", ">\n\nThey could also change the rules. When you graduate highschool, loans can only be applied to a community college.\nThen when you have a two year diploma, transfer to a 4 year school, and you are eligible for undergrad loans.\nAfter 4 years, you have the same degree as everybody else, with much less debt. And if school isn't for you, maybe you can stop after two years and still have something to show for it.", ">\n\nCommunity college is a fantastic option, but it does lack certain opportunities. I went the CC route and got a bachelors degree from a state school with something like $7k debt total, which is great. But when I transferred over, I missed out on several intern and research opportunities that were given to students who already knew the faculty, had taken several classes from them, had experience in the appropriate clubs and labs, etc. I found other opportunities, but many of those student positions lead directly to job offers that just aren't available without them. Just a thought.", ">\n\nPeople on Reddit love to champion community colleges as a one-size fits all solution but there are definitely drawbacks. I taught at a community college for a semester and I wouldn't begin to claim that I had the same resources as a university professor. The students definitely suffer from the lack of resources and opportunities. \nCommunity colleges are often underresourced and trying to fill multiple missions. People forget that the majority of community college students aren't looking to transfer. For a lot of people, the CC is where they get their education for their career or trade. There are a lot of careers that only require a degree or certification from a community college. Those are the students who CCs are best positioned to serve and we should make sure THOSE programs have the resources necessary to prep people for their careers. \nCommunity colleges do not even remotely compare to an actual four year college or university, not in terms of resources in the classrooms or the extracurriculars that they can offer. At a community college, your professor is going to be someone like me, a schmuck with a masters degree who knows enough about a topic to teach an intro class. At a university, your professor is going to be someone actively doing research, with whom you can work and get more knowledge in your field. \nA CC simply does not compare to a university and we're really doing a disservice to lower income kids by suggesting that they're remotely comparable. The whole \"go to CC and transfer\" rhetoric seems like a band-aid on the gushing wound of unaffordability in higher education. \nThis isn't even a knock at community colleges, they deserve more resources to serve the community. They should be able to offer robust trade and career oriented courses and continuing education courses for people in the community. We should stop looking to them as a band-aid on the four year college affordability problem.", ">\n\nThat sounds like a generalization. My CC had 35k students and many professors were former university professors who no longer wanted to focus on research. \nThere’s always a trade off but I had a great experience.", ">\n\nI really just hope that these kinds of things mean the Dems are genuinely serious about doing something about this and not going to just give up." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession.", ">\n\nHow about they go after the root of the problem, the government guaranteed loans?", ">\n\nKeep the loans, but only give them to people going to colleges that keep their tuition under a certain amount. If they don't want to set their prices reasonably, they don't deserve any federal money.", ">\n\nThey could also change the rules. When you graduate highschool, loans can only be applied to a community college.\nThen when you have a two year diploma, transfer to a 4 year school, and you are eligible for undergrad loans.\nAfter 4 years, you have the same degree as everybody else, with much less debt. And if school isn't for you, maybe you can stop after two years and still have something to show for it.", ">\n\nCommunity college is a fantastic option, but it does lack certain opportunities. I went the CC route and got a bachelors degree from a state school with something like $7k debt total, which is great. But when I transferred over, I missed out on several intern and research opportunities that were given to students who already knew the faculty, had taken several classes from them, had experience in the appropriate clubs and labs, etc. I found other opportunities, but many of those student positions lead directly to job offers that just aren't available without them. Just a thought.", ">\n\nPeople on Reddit love to champion community colleges as a one-size fits all solution but there are definitely drawbacks. I taught at a community college for a semester and I wouldn't begin to claim that I had the same resources as a university professor. The students definitely suffer from the lack of resources and opportunities. \nCommunity colleges are often underresourced and trying to fill multiple missions. People forget that the majority of community college students aren't looking to transfer. For a lot of people, the CC is where they get their education for their career or trade. There are a lot of careers that only require a degree or certification from a community college. Those are the students who CCs are best positioned to serve and we should make sure THOSE programs have the resources necessary to prep people for their careers. \nCommunity colleges do not even remotely compare to an actual four year college or university, not in terms of resources in the classrooms or the extracurriculars that they can offer. At a community college, your professor is going to be someone like me, a schmuck with a masters degree who knows enough about a topic to teach an intro class. At a university, your professor is going to be someone actively doing research, with whom you can work and get more knowledge in your field. \nA CC simply does not compare to a university and we're really doing a disservice to lower income kids by suggesting that they're remotely comparable. The whole \"go to CC and transfer\" rhetoric seems like a band-aid on the gushing wound of unaffordability in higher education. \nThis isn't even a knock at community colleges, they deserve more resources to serve the community. They should be able to offer robust trade and career oriented courses and continuing education courses for people in the community. We should stop looking to them as a band-aid on the four year college affordability problem.", ">\n\nThat sounds like a generalization. My CC had 35k students and many professors were former university professors who no longer wanted to focus on research. \nThere’s always a trade off but I had a great experience.", ">\n\nI really just hope that these kinds of things mean the Dems are genuinely serious about doing something about this and not going to just give up.", ">\n\nWhat do you expect them to do exactly? It's amazing you are blaming Democrats for this." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession.", ">\n\nHow about they go after the root of the problem, the government guaranteed loans?", ">\n\nKeep the loans, but only give them to people going to colleges that keep their tuition under a certain amount. If they don't want to set their prices reasonably, they don't deserve any federal money.", ">\n\nThey could also change the rules. When you graduate highschool, loans can only be applied to a community college.\nThen when you have a two year diploma, transfer to a 4 year school, and you are eligible for undergrad loans.\nAfter 4 years, you have the same degree as everybody else, with much less debt. And if school isn't for you, maybe you can stop after two years and still have something to show for it.", ">\n\nCommunity college is a fantastic option, but it does lack certain opportunities. I went the CC route and got a bachelors degree from a state school with something like $7k debt total, which is great. But when I transferred over, I missed out on several intern and research opportunities that were given to students who already knew the faculty, had taken several classes from them, had experience in the appropriate clubs and labs, etc. I found other opportunities, but many of those student positions lead directly to job offers that just aren't available without them. Just a thought.", ">\n\nPeople on Reddit love to champion community colleges as a one-size fits all solution but there are definitely drawbacks. I taught at a community college for a semester and I wouldn't begin to claim that I had the same resources as a university professor. The students definitely suffer from the lack of resources and opportunities. \nCommunity colleges are often underresourced and trying to fill multiple missions. People forget that the majority of community college students aren't looking to transfer. For a lot of people, the CC is where they get their education for their career or trade. There are a lot of careers that only require a degree or certification from a community college. Those are the students who CCs are best positioned to serve and we should make sure THOSE programs have the resources necessary to prep people for their careers. \nCommunity colleges do not even remotely compare to an actual four year college or university, not in terms of resources in the classrooms or the extracurriculars that they can offer. At a community college, your professor is going to be someone like me, a schmuck with a masters degree who knows enough about a topic to teach an intro class. At a university, your professor is going to be someone actively doing research, with whom you can work and get more knowledge in your field. \nA CC simply does not compare to a university and we're really doing a disservice to lower income kids by suggesting that they're remotely comparable. The whole \"go to CC and transfer\" rhetoric seems like a band-aid on the gushing wound of unaffordability in higher education. \nThis isn't even a knock at community colleges, they deserve more resources to serve the community. They should be able to offer robust trade and career oriented courses and continuing education courses for people in the community. We should stop looking to them as a band-aid on the four year college affordability problem.", ">\n\nThat sounds like a generalization. My CC had 35k students and many professors were former university professors who no longer wanted to focus on research. \nThere’s always a trade off but I had a great experience.", ">\n\nI really just hope that these kinds of things mean the Dems are genuinely serious about doing something about this and not going to just give up.", ">\n\nWhat do you expect them to do exactly? It's amazing you are blaming Democrats for this.", ">\n\nI have no problem blaming Dems to a degree. Look, I get that right now there's nothing they can do - but this whole issue is bigger than right now. Both parties have had many many opportunities to do something about this. It's the same for so many issues. We spend our time blaming left or right when the reality is they've both been kicking the can down the road." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession.", ">\n\nHow about they go after the root of the problem, the government guaranteed loans?", ">\n\nKeep the loans, but only give them to people going to colleges that keep their tuition under a certain amount. If they don't want to set their prices reasonably, they don't deserve any federal money.", ">\n\nThey could also change the rules. When you graduate highschool, loans can only be applied to a community college.\nThen when you have a two year diploma, transfer to a 4 year school, and you are eligible for undergrad loans.\nAfter 4 years, you have the same degree as everybody else, with much less debt. And if school isn't for you, maybe you can stop after two years and still have something to show for it.", ">\n\nCommunity college is a fantastic option, but it does lack certain opportunities. I went the CC route and got a bachelors degree from a state school with something like $7k debt total, which is great. But when I transferred over, I missed out on several intern and research opportunities that were given to students who already knew the faculty, had taken several classes from them, had experience in the appropriate clubs and labs, etc. I found other opportunities, but many of those student positions lead directly to job offers that just aren't available without them. Just a thought.", ">\n\nPeople on Reddit love to champion community colleges as a one-size fits all solution but there are definitely drawbacks. I taught at a community college for a semester and I wouldn't begin to claim that I had the same resources as a university professor. The students definitely suffer from the lack of resources and opportunities. \nCommunity colleges are often underresourced and trying to fill multiple missions. People forget that the majority of community college students aren't looking to transfer. For a lot of people, the CC is where they get their education for their career or trade. There are a lot of careers that only require a degree or certification from a community college. Those are the students who CCs are best positioned to serve and we should make sure THOSE programs have the resources necessary to prep people for their careers. \nCommunity colleges do not even remotely compare to an actual four year college or university, not in terms of resources in the classrooms or the extracurriculars that they can offer. At a community college, your professor is going to be someone like me, a schmuck with a masters degree who knows enough about a topic to teach an intro class. At a university, your professor is going to be someone actively doing research, with whom you can work and get more knowledge in your field. \nA CC simply does not compare to a university and we're really doing a disservice to lower income kids by suggesting that they're remotely comparable. The whole \"go to CC and transfer\" rhetoric seems like a band-aid on the gushing wound of unaffordability in higher education. \nThis isn't even a knock at community colleges, they deserve more resources to serve the community. They should be able to offer robust trade and career oriented courses and continuing education courses for people in the community. We should stop looking to them as a band-aid on the four year college affordability problem.", ">\n\nThat sounds like a generalization. My CC had 35k students and many professors were former university professors who no longer wanted to focus on research. \nThere’s always a trade off but I had a great experience.", ">\n\nI really just hope that these kinds of things mean the Dems are genuinely serious about doing something about this and not going to just give up.", ">\n\nWhat do you expect them to do exactly? It's amazing you are blaming Democrats for this.", ">\n\nI have no problem blaming Dems to a degree. Look, I get that right now there's nothing they can do - but this whole issue is bigger than right now. Both parties have had many many opportunities to do something about this. It's the same for so many issues. We spend our time blaming left or right when the reality is they've both been kicking the can down the road.", ">\n\nSo you admit there's nothing they can do but are still mad that they aren't doing anything? Despite a lot of pushback, Democrats did what they could do, and that's what got us here. Until we have enough people in Congress who give a shit, they can't do more." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession.", ">\n\nHow about they go after the root of the problem, the government guaranteed loans?", ">\n\nKeep the loans, but only give them to people going to colleges that keep their tuition under a certain amount. If they don't want to set their prices reasonably, they don't deserve any federal money.", ">\n\nThey could also change the rules. When you graduate highschool, loans can only be applied to a community college.\nThen when you have a two year diploma, transfer to a 4 year school, and you are eligible for undergrad loans.\nAfter 4 years, you have the same degree as everybody else, with much less debt. And if school isn't for you, maybe you can stop after two years and still have something to show for it.", ">\n\nCommunity college is a fantastic option, but it does lack certain opportunities. I went the CC route and got a bachelors degree from a state school with something like $7k debt total, which is great. But when I transferred over, I missed out on several intern and research opportunities that were given to students who already knew the faculty, had taken several classes from them, had experience in the appropriate clubs and labs, etc. I found other opportunities, but many of those student positions lead directly to job offers that just aren't available without them. Just a thought.", ">\n\nPeople on Reddit love to champion community colleges as a one-size fits all solution but there are definitely drawbacks. I taught at a community college for a semester and I wouldn't begin to claim that I had the same resources as a university professor. The students definitely suffer from the lack of resources and opportunities. \nCommunity colleges are often underresourced and trying to fill multiple missions. People forget that the majority of community college students aren't looking to transfer. For a lot of people, the CC is where they get their education for their career or trade. There are a lot of careers that only require a degree or certification from a community college. Those are the students who CCs are best positioned to serve and we should make sure THOSE programs have the resources necessary to prep people for their careers. \nCommunity colleges do not even remotely compare to an actual four year college or university, not in terms of resources in the classrooms or the extracurriculars that they can offer. At a community college, your professor is going to be someone like me, a schmuck with a masters degree who knows enough about a topic to teach an intro class. At a university, your professor is going to be someone actively doing research, with whom you can work and get more knowledge in your field. \nA CC simply does not compare to a university and we're really doing a disservice to lower income kids by suggesting that they're remotely comparable. The whole \"go to CC and transfer\" rhetoric seems like a band-aid on the gushing wound of unaffordability in higher education. \nThis isn't even a knock at community colleges, they deserve more resources to serve the community. They should be able to offer robust trade and career oriented courses and continuing education courses for people in the community. We should stop looking to them as a band-aid on the four year college affordability problem.", ">\n\nThat sounds like a generalization. My CC had 35k students and many professors were former university professors who no longer wanted to focus on research. \nThere’s always a trade off but I had a great experience.", ">\n\nI really just hope that these kinds of things mean the Dems are genuinely serious about doing something about this and not going to just give up.", ">\n\nWhat do you expect them to do exactly? It's amazing you are blaming Democrats for this.", ">\n\nI have no problem blaming Dems to a degree. Look, I get that right now there's nothing they can do - but this whole issue is bigger than right now. Both parties have had many many opportunities to do something about this. It's the same for so many issues. We spend our time blaming left or right when the reality is they've both been kicking the can down the road.", ">\n\nSo you admit there's nothing they can do but are still mad that they aren't doing anything? Despite a lot of pushback, Democrats did what they could do, and that's what got us here. Until we have enough people in Congress who give a shit, they can't do more.", ">\n\nThis is the shit they're going to throw you so the AG can stop defending the right of the president to cancel debt. This is who the Democratic Party fundamentally IS: a bait and switch organization that serves private capital" ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession.", ">\n\nHow about they go after the root of the problem, the government guaranteed loans?", ">\n\nKeep the loans, but only give them to people going to colleges that keep their tuition under a certain amount. If they don't want to set their prices reasonably, they don't deserve any federal money.", ">\n\nThey could also change the rules. When you graduate highschool, loans can only be applied to a community college.\nThen when you have a two year diploma, transfer to a 4 year school, and you are eligible for undergrad loans.\nAfter 4 years, you have the same degree as everybody else, with much less debt. And if school isn't for you, maybe you can stop after two years and still have something to show for it.", ">\n\nCommunity college is a fantastic option, but it does lack certain opportunities. I went the CC route and got a bachelors degree from a state school with something like $7k debt total, which is great. But when I transferred over, I missed out on several intern and research opportunities that were given to students who already knew the faculty, had taken several classes from them, had experience in the appropriate clubs and labs, etc. I found other opportunities, but many of those student positions lead directly to job offers that just aren't available without them. Just a thought.", ">\n\nPeople on Reddit love to champion community colleges as a one-size fits all solution but there are definitely drawbacks. I taught at a community college for a semester and I wouldn't begin to claim that I had the same resources as a university professor. The students definitely suffer from the lack of resources and opportunities. \nCommunity colleges are often underresourced and trying to fill multiple missions. People forget that the majority of community college students aren't looking to transfer. For a lot of people, the CC is where they get their education for their career or trade. There are a lot of careers that only require a degree or certification from a community college. Those are the students who CCs are best positioned to serve and we should make sure THOSE programs have the resources necessary to prep people for their careers. \nCommunity colleges do not even remotely compare to an actual four year college or university, not in terms of resources in the classrooms or the extracurriculars that they can offer. At a community college, your professor is going to be someone like me, a schmuck with a masters degree who knows enough about a topic to teach an intro class. At a university, your professor is going to be someone actively doing research, with whom you can work and get more knowledge in your field. \nA CC simply does not compare to a university and we're really doing a disservice to lower income kids by suggesting that they're remotely comparable. The whole \"go to CC and transfer\" rhetoric seems like a band-aid on the gushing wound of unaffordability in higher education. \nThis isn't even a knock at community colleges, they deserve more resources to serve the community. They should be able to offer robust trade and career oriented courses and continuing education courses for people in the community. We should stop looking to them as a band-aid on the four year college affordability problem.", ">\n\nThat sounds like a generalization. My CC had 35k students and many professors were former university professors who no longer wanted to focus on research. \nThere’s always a trade off but I had a great experience.", ">\n\nI really just hope that these kinds of things mean the Dems are genuinely serious about doing something about this and not going to just give up.", ">\n\nWhat do you expect them to do exactly? It's amazing you are blaming Democrats for this.", ">\n\nI have no problem blaming Dems to a degree. Look, I get that right now there's nothing they can do - but this whole issue is bigger than right now. Both parties have had many many opportunities to do something about this. It's the same for so many issues. We spend our time blaming left or right when the reality is they've both been kicking the can down the road.", ">\n\nSo you admit there's nothing they can do but are still mad that they aren't doing anything? Despite a lot of pushback, Democrats did what they could do, and that's what got us here. Until we have enough people in Congress who give a shit, they can't do more.", ">\n\nThis is the shit they're going to throw you so the AG can stop defending the right of the president to cancel debt. This is who the Democratic Party fundamentally IS: a bait and switch organization that serves private capital", ">\n\nHow the fuck if this the Democrats fault? What would you rather have them do?" ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession.", ">\n\nHow about they go after the root of the problem, the government guaranteed loans?", ">\n\nKeep the loans, but only give them to people going to colleges that keep their tuition under a certain amount. If they don't want to set their prices reasonably, they don't deserve any federal money.", ">\n\nThey could also change the rules. When you graduate highschool, loans can only be applied to a community college.\nThen when you have a two year diploma, transfer to a 4 year school, and you are eligible for undergrad loans.\nAfter 4 years, you have the same degree as everybody else, with much less debt. And if school isn't for you, maybe you can stop after two years and still have something to show for it.", ">\n\nCommunity college is a fantastic option, but it does lack certain opportunities. I went the CC route and got a bachelors degree from a state school with something like $7k debt total, which is great. But when I transferred over, I missed out on several intern and research opportunities that were given to students who already knew the faculty, had taken several classes from them, had experience in the appropriate clubs and labs, etc. I found other opportunities, but many of those student positions lead directly to job offers that just aren't available without them. Just a thought.", ">\n\nPeople on Reddit love to champion community colleges as a one-size fits all solution but there are definitely drawbacks. I taught at a community college for a semester and I wouldn't begin to claim that I had the same resources as a university professor. The students definitely suffer from the lack of resources and opportunities. \nCommunity colleges are often underresourced and trying to fill multiple missions. People forget that the majority of community college students aren't looking to transfer. For a lot of people, the CC is where they get their education for their career or trade. There are a lot of careers that only require a degree or certification from a community college. Those are the students who CCs are best positioned to serve and we should make sure THOSE programs have the resources necessary to prep people for their careers. \nCommunity colleges do not even remotely compare to an actual four year college or university, not in terms of resources in the classrooms or the extracurriculars that they can offer. At a community college, your professor is going to be someone like me, a schmuck with a masters degree who knows enough about a topic to teach an intro class. At a university, your professor is going to be someone actively doing research, with whom you can work and get more knowledge in your field. \nA CC simply does not compare to a university and we're really doing a disservice to lower income kids by suggesting that they're remotely comparable. The whole \"go to CC and transfer\" rhetoric seems like a band-aid on the gushing wound of unaffordability in higher education. \nThis isn't even a knock at community colleges, they deserve more resources to serve the community. They should be able to offer robust trade and career oriented courses and continuing education courses for people in the community. We should stop looking to them as a band-aid on the four year college affordability problem.", ">\n\nThat sounds like a generalization. My CC had 35k students and many professors were former university professors who no longer wanted to focus on research. \nThere’s always a trade off but I had a great experience.", ">\n\nI really just hope that these kinds of things mean the Dems are genuinely serious about doing something about this and not going to just give up.", ">\n\nWhat do you expect them to do exactly? It's amazing you are blaming Democrats for this.", ">\n\nI have no problem blaming Dems to a degree. Look, I get that right now there's nothing they can do - but this whole issue is bigger than right now. Both parties have had many many opportunities to do something about this. It's the same for so many issues. We spend our time blaming left or right when the reality is they've both been kicking the can down the road.", ">\n\nSo you admit there's nothing they can do but are still mad that they aren't doing anything? Despite a lot of pushback, Democrats did what they could do, and that's what got us here. Until we have enough people in Congress who give a shit, they can't do more.", ">\n\nThis is the shit they're going to throw you so the AG can stop defending the right of the president to cancel debt. This is who the Democratic Party fundamentally IS: a bait and switch organization that serves private capital", ">\n\nHow the fuck if this the Democrats fault? What would you rather have them do?", ">\n\n\nFeds propose 'student loan safety net' alongside forgiveness\n\nWill there be a proposal for a credit card safety net?" ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession.", ">\n\nHow about they go after the root of the problem, the government guaranteed loans?", ">\n\nKeep the loans, but only give them to people going to colleges that keep their tuition under a certain amount. If they don't want to set their prices reasonably, they don't deserve any federal money.", ">\n\nThey could also change the rules. When you graduate highschool, loans can only be applied to a community college.\nThen when you have a two year diploma, transfer to a 4 year school, and you are eligible for undergrad loans.\nAfter 4 years, you have the same degree as everybody else, with much less debt. And if school isn't for you, maybe you can stop after two years and still have something to show for it.", ">\n\nCommunity college is a fantastic option, but it does lack certain opportunities. I went the CC route and got a bachelors degree from a state school with something like $7k debt total, which is great. But when I transferred over, I missed out on several intern and research opportunities that were given to students who already knew the faculty, had taken several classes from them, had experience in the appropriate clubs and labs, etc. I found other opportunities, but many of those student positions lead directly to job offers that just aren't available without them. Just a thought.", ">\n\nPeople on Reddit love to champion community colleges as a one-size fits all solution but there are definitely drawbacks. I taught at a community college for a semester and I wouldn't begin to claim that I had the same resources as a university professor. The students definitely suffer from the lack of resources and opportunities. \nCommunity colleges are often underresourced and trying to fill multiple missions. People forget that the majority of community college students aren't looking to transfer. For a lot of people, the CC is where they get their education for their career or trade. There are a lot of careers that only require a degree or certification from a community college. Those are the students who CCs are best positioned to serve and we should make sure THOSE programs have the resources necessary to prep people for their careers. \nCommunity colleges do not even remotely compare to an actual four year college or university, not in terms of resources in the classrooms or the extracurriculars that they can offer. At a community college, your professor is going to be someone like me, a schmuck with a masters degree who knows enough about a topic to teach an intro class. At a university, your professor is going to be someone actively doing research, with whom you can work and get more knowledge in your field. \nA CC simply does not compare to a university and we're really doing a disservice to lower income kids by suggesting that they're remotely comparable. The whole \"go to CC and transfer\" rhetoric seems like a band-aid on the gushing wound of unaffordability in higher education. \nThis isn't even a knock at community colleges, they deserve more resources to serve the community. They should be able to offer robust trade and career oriented courses and continuing education courses for people in the community. We should stop looking to them as a band-aid on the four year college affordability problem.", ">\n\nThat sounds like a generalization. My CC had 35k students and many professors were former university professors who no longer wanted to focus on research. \nThere’s always a trade off but I had a great experience.", ">\n\nI really just hope that these kinds of things mean the Dems are genuinely serious about doing something about this and not going to just give up.", ">\n\nWhat do you expect them to do exactly? It's amazing you are blaming Democrats for this.", ">\n\nI have no problem blaming Dems to a degree. Look, I get that right now there's nothing they can do - but this whole issue is bigger than right now. Both parties have had many many opportunities to do something about this. It's the same for so many issues. We spend our time blaming left or right when the reality is they've both been kicking the can down the road.", ">\n\nSo you admit there's nothing they can do but are still mad that they aren't doing anything? Despite a lot of pushback, Democrats did what they could do, and that's what got us here. Until we have enough people in Congress who give a shit, they can't do more.", ">\n\nThis is the shit they're going to throw you so the AG can stop defending the right of the president to cancel debt. This is who the Democratic Party fundamentally IS: a bait and switch organization that serves private capital", ">\n\nHow the fuck if this the Democrats fault? What would you rather have them do?", ">\n\n\nFeds propose 'student loan safety net' alongside forgiveness\n\nWill there be a proposal for a credit card safety net?", ">\n\nBankruptcy is the credit card safety net. We allow it for every debt except student loans." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession.", ">\n\nHow about they go after the root of the problem, the government guaranteed loans?", ">\n\nKeep the loans, but only give them to people going to colleges that keep their tuition under a certain amount. If they don't want to set their prices reasonably, they don't deserve any federal money.", ">\n\nThey could also change the rules. When you graduate highschool, loans can only be applied to a community college.\nThen when you have a two year diploma, transfer to a 4 year school, and you are eligible for undergrad loans.\nAfter 4 years, you have the same degree as everybody else, with much less debt. And if school isn't for you, maybe you can stop after two years and still have something to show for it.", ">\n\nCommunity college is a fantastic option, but it does lack certain opportunities. I went the CC route and got a bachelors degree from a state school with something like $7k debt total, which is great. But when I transferred over, I missed out on several intern and research opportunities that were given to students who already knew the faculty, had taken several classes from them, had experience in the appropriate clubs and labs, etc. I found other opportunities, but many of those student positions lead directly to job offers that just aren't available without them. Just a thought.", ">\n\nPeople on Reddit love to champion community colleges as a one-size fits all solution but there are definitely drawbacks. I taught at a community college for a semester and I wouldn't begin to claim that I had the same resources as a university professor. The students definitely suffer from the lack of resources and opportunities. \nCommunity colleges are often underresourced and trying to fill multiple missions. People forget that the majority of community college students aren't looking to transfer. For a lot of people, the CC is where they get their education for their career or trade. There are a lot of careers that only require a degree or certification from a community college. Those are the students who CCs are best positioned to serve and we should make sure THOSE programs have the resources necessary to prep people for their careers. \nCommunity colleges do not even remotely compare to an actual four year college or university, not in terms of resources in the classrooms or the extracurriculars that they can offer. At a community college, your professor is going to be someone like me, a schmuck with a masters degree who knows enough about a topic to teach an intro class. At a university, your professor is going to be someone actively doing research, with whom you can work and get more knowledge in your field. \nA CC simply does not compare to a university and we're really doing a disservice to lower income kids by suggesting that they're remotely comparable. The whole \"go to CC and transfer\" rhetoric seems like a band-aid on the gushing wound of unaffordability in higher education. \nThis isn't even a knock at community colleges, they deserve more resources to serve the community. They should be able to offer robust trade and career oriented courses and continuing education courses for people in the community. We should stop looking to them as a band-aid on the four year college affordability problem.", ">\n\nThat sounds like a generalization. My CC had 35k students and many professors were former university professors who no longer wanted to focus on research. \nThere’s always a trade off but I had a great experience.", ">\n\nI really just hope that these kinds of things mean the Dems are genuinely serious about doing something about this and not going to just give up.", ">\n\nWhat do you expect them to do exactly? It's amazing you are blaming Democrats for this.", ">\n\nI have no problem blaming Dems to a degree. Look, I get that right now there's nothing they can do - but this whole issue is bigger than right now. Both parties have had many many opportunities to do something about this. It's the same for so many issues. We spend our time blaming left or right when the reality is they've both been kicking the can down the road.", ">\n\nSo you admit there's nothing they can do but are still mad that they aren't doing anything? Despite a lot of pushback, Democrats did what they could do, and that's what got us here. Until we have enough people in Congress who give a shit, they can't do more.", ">\n\nThis is the shit they're going to throw you so the AG can stop defending the right of the president to cancel debt. This is who the Democratic Party fundamentally IS: a bait and switch organization that serves private capital", ">\n\nHow the fuck if this the Democrats fault? What would you rather have them do?", ">\n\n\nFeds propose 'student loan safety net' alongside forgiveness\n\nWill there be a proposal for a credit card safety net?", ">\n\nBankruptcy is the credit card safety net. We allow it for every debt except student loans.", ">\n\nNever gonna happen" ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession.", ">\n\nHow about they go after the root of the problem, the government guaranteed loans?", ">\n\nKeep the loans, but only give them to people going to colleges that keep their tuition under a certain amount. If they don't want to set their prices reasonably, they don't deserve any federal money.", ">\n\nThey could also change the rules. When you graduate highschool, loans can only be applied to a community college.\nThen when you have a two year diploma, transfer to a 4 year school, and you are eligible for undergrad loans.\nAfter 4 years, you have the same degree as everybody else, with much less debt. And if school isn't for you, maybe you can stop after two years and still have something to show for it.", ">\n\nCommunity college is a fantastic option, but it does lack certain opportunities. I went the CC route and got a bachelors degree from a state school with something like $7k debt total, which is great. But when I transferred over, I missed out on several intern and research opportunities that were given to students who already knew the faculty, had taken several classes from them, had experience in the appropriate clubs and labs, etc. I found other opportunities, but many of those student positions lead directly to job offers that just aren't available without them. Just a thought.", ">\n\nPeople on Reddit love to champion community colleges as a one-size fits all solution but there are definitely drawbacks. I taught at a community college for a semester and I wouldn't begin to claim that I had the same resources as a university professor. The students definitely suffer from the lack of resources and opportunities. \nCommunity colleges are often underresourced and trying to fill multiple missions. People forget that the majority of community college students aren't looking to transfer. For a lot of people, the CC is where they get their education for their career or trade. There are a lot of careers that only require a degree or certification from a community college. Those are the students who CCs are best positioned to serve and we should make sure THOSE programs have the resources necessary to prep people for their careers. \nCommunity colleges do not even remotely compare to an actual four year college or university, not in terms of resources in the classrooms or the extracurriculars that they can offer. At a community college, your professor is going to be someone like me, a schmuck with a masters degree who knows enough about a topic to teach an intro class. At a university, your professor is going to be someone actively doing research, with whom you can work and get more knowledge in your field. \nA CC simply does not compare to a university and we're really doing a disservice to lower income kids by suggesting that they're remotely comparable. The whole \"go to CC and transfer\" rhetoric seems like a band-aid on the gushing wound of unaffordability in higher education. \nThis isn't even a knock at community colleges, they deserve more resources to serve the community. They should be able to offer robust trade and career oriented courses and continuing education courses for people in the community. We should stop looking to them as a band-aid on the four year college affordability problem.", ">\n\nThat sounds like a generalization. My CC had 35k students and many professors were former university professors who no longer wanted to focus on research. \nThere’s always a trade off but I had a great experience.", ">\n\nI really just hope that these kinds of things mean the Dems are genuinely serious about doing something about this and not going to just give up.", ">\n\nWhat do you expect them to do exactly? It's amazing you are blaming Democrats for this.", ">\n\nI have no problem blaming Dems to a degree. Look, I get that right now there's nothing they can do - but this whole issue is bigger than right now. Both parties have had many many opportunities to do something about this. It's the same for so many issues. We spend our time blaming left or right when the reality is they've both been kicking the can down the road.", ">\n\nSo you admit there's nothing they can do but are still mad that they aren't doing anything? Despite a lot of pushback, Democrats did what they could do, and that's what got us here. Until we have enough people in Congress who give a shit, they can't do more.", ">\n\nThis is the shit they're going to throw you so the AG can stop defending the right of the president to cancel debt. This is who the Democratic Party fundamentally IS: a bait and switch organization that serves private capital", ">\n\nHow the fuck if this the Democrats fault? What would you rather have them do?", ">\n\n\nFeds propose 'student loan safety net' alongside forgiveness\n\nWill there be a proposal for a credit card safety net?", ">\n\nBankruptcy is the credit card safety net. We allow it for every debt except student loans.", ">\n\nNever gonna happen", ">\n\nThe solution is easy, make college much, much cheaper. Bare bones campus, 4 students to a room, class sizes of 1000, no sports teams unless they pay for themself. Government pays 7 figure salaries to Nobel quality profs to give lectures to 1mm students at a time. Classes about what jobs pay how much for all incoming freshman. Make freshman sign off on their understanding on how loans work. Doesn’t sound great, but tuition of 10K instead of 30K and next thing you know you are a very popular school.\nWhat makes such a college hard to maintain is existing colleges that offer a country club atmosphere, single rooms, d1 sports, flashy alumni, small class sizes, and most of all, lenders willing to lend gobs of cash with no collateral. Makes the bare bones college look like crap, except this is what we really need." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession.", ">\n\nHow about they go after the root of the problem, the government guaranteed loans?", ">\n\nKeep the loans, but only give them to people going to colleges that keep their tuition under a certain amount. If they don't want to set their prices reasonably, they don't deserve any federal money.", ">\n\nThey could also change the rules. When you graduate highschool, loans can only be applied to a community college.\nThen when you have a two year diploma, transfer to a 4 year school, and you are eligible for undergrad loans.\nAfter 4 years, you have the same degree as everybody else, with much less debt. And if school isn't for you, maybe you can stop after two years and still have something to show for it.", ">\n\nCommunity college is a fantastic option, but it does lack certain opportunities. I went the CC route and got a bachelors degree from a state school with something like $7k debt total, which is great. But when I transferred over, I missed out on several intern and research opportunities that were given to students who already knew the faculty, had taken several classes from them, had experience in the appropriate clubs and labs, etc. I found other opportunities, but many of those student positions lead directly to job offers that just aren't available without them. Just a thought.", ">\n\nPeople on Reddit love to champion community colleges as a one-size fits all solution but there are definitely drawbacks. I taught at a community college for a semester and I wouldn't begin to claim that I had the same resources as a university professor. The students definitely suffer from the lack of resources and opportunities. \nCommunity colleges are often underresourced and trying to fill multiple missions. People forget that the majority of community college students aren't looking to transfer. For a lot of people, the CC is where they get their education for their career or trade. There are a lot of careers that only require a degree or certification from a community college. Those are the students who CCs are best positioned to serve and we should make sure THOSE programs have the resources necessary to prep people for their careers. \nCommunity colleges do not even remotely compare to an actual four year college or university, not in terms of resources in the classrooms or the extracurriculars that they can offer. At a community college, your professor is going to be someone like me, a schmuck with a masters degree who knows enough about a topic to teach an intro class. At a university, your professor is going to be someone actively doing research, with whom you can work and get more knowledge in your field. \nA CC simply does not compare to a university and we're really doing a disservice to lower income kids by suggesting that they're remotely comparable. The whole \"go to CC and transfer\" rhetoric seems like a band-aid on the gushing wound of unaffordability in higher education. \nThis isn't even a knock at community colleges, they deserve more resources to serve the community. They should be able to offer robust trade and career oriented courses and continuing education courses for people in the community. We should stop looking to them as a band-aid on the four year college affordability problem.", ">\n\nThat sounds like a generalization. My CC had 35k students and many professors were former university professors who no longer wanted to focus on research. \nThere’s always a trade off but I had a great experience.", ">\n\nI really just hope that these kinds of things mean the Dems are genuinely serious about doing something about this and not going to just give up.", ">\n\nWhat do you expect them to do exactly? It's amazing you are blaming Democrats for this.", ">\n\nI have no problem blaming Dems to a degree. Look, I get that right now there's nothing they can do - but this whole issue is bigger than right now. Both parties have had many many opportunities to do something about this. It's the same for so many issues. We spend our time blaming left or right when the reality is they've both been kicking the can down the road.", ">\n\nSo you admit there's nothing they can do but are still mad that they aren't doing anything? Despite a lot of pushback, Democrats did what they could do, and that's what got us here. Until we have enough people in Congress who give a shit, they can't do more.", ">\n\nThis is the shit they're going to throw you so the AG can stop defending the right of the president to cancel debt. This is who the Democratic Party fundamentally IS: a bait and switch organization that serves private capital", ">\n\nHow the fuck if this the Democrats fault? What would you rather have them do?", ">\n\n\nFeds propose 'student loan safety net' alongside forgiveness\n\nWill there be a proposal for a credit card safety net?", ">\n\nBankruptcy is the credit card safety net. We allow it for every debt except student loans.", ">\n\nNever gonna happen", ">\n\nThe solution is easy, make college much, much cheaper. Bare bones campus, 4 students to a room, class sizes of 1000, no sports teams unless they pay for themself. Government pays 7 figure salaries to Nobel quality profs to give lectures to 1mm students at a time. Classes about what jobs pay how much for all incoming freshman. Make freshman sign off on their understanding on how loans work. Doesn’t sound great, but tuition of 10K instead of 30K and next thing you know you are a very popular school.\nWhat makes such a college hard to maintain is existing colleges that offer a country club atmosphere, single rooms, d1 sports, flashy alumni, small class sizes, and most of all, lenders willing to lend gobs of cash with no collateral. Makes the bare bones college look like crap, except this is what we really need.", ">\n\nHow about the just do a one time fee. Make the fee 1% of what you owe. The govt gets some of their money back and the loan is 99 percent forgiven. On 100k loan this would be 1000 dollars." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession.", ">\n\nHow about they go after the root of the problem, the government guaranteed loans?", ">\n\nKeep the loans, but only give them to people going to colleges that keep their tuition under a certain amount. If they don't want to set their prices reasonably, they don't deserve any federal money.", ">\n\nThey could also change the rules. When you graduate highschool, loans can only be applied to a community college.\nThen when you have a two year diploma, transfer to a 4 year school, and you are eligible for undergrad loans.\nAfter 4 years, you have the same degree as everybody else, with much less debt. And if school isn't for you, maybe you can stop after two years and still have something to show for it.", ">\n\nCommunity college is a fantastic option, but it does lack certain opportunities. I went the CC route and got a bachelors degree from a state school with something like $7k debt total, which is great. But when I transferred over, I missed out on several intern and research opportunities that were given to students who already knew the faculty, had taken several classes from them, had experience in the appropriate clubs and labs, etc. I found other opportunities, but many of those student positions lead directly to job offers that just aren't available without them. Just a thought.", ">\n\nPeople on Reddit love to champion community colleges as a one-size fits all solution but there are definitely drawbacks. I taught at a community college for a semester and I wouldn't begin to claim that I had the same resources as a university professor. The students definitely suffer from the lack of resources and opportunities. \nCommunity colleges are often underresourced and trying to fill multiple missions. People forget that the majority of community college students aren't looking to transfer. For a lot of people, the CC is where they get their education for their career or trade. There are a lot of careers that only require a degree or certification from a community college. Those are the students who CCs are best positioned to serve and we should make sure THOSE programs have the resources necessary to prep people for their careers. \nCommunity colleges do not even remotely compare to an actual four year college or university, not in terms of resources in the classrooms or the extracurriculars that they can offer. At a community college, your professor is going to be someone like me, a schmuck with a masters degree who knows enough about a topic to teach an intro class. At a university, your professor is going to be someone actively doing research, with whom you can work and get more knowledge in your field. \nA CC simply does not compare to a university and we're really doing a disservice to lower income kids by suggesting that they're remotely comparable. The whole \"go to CC and transfer\" rhetoric seems like a band-aid on the gushing wound of unaffordability in higher education. \nThis isn't even a knock at community colleges, they deserve more resources to serve the community. They should be able to offer robust trade and career oriented courses and continuing education courses for people in the community. We should stop looking to them as a band-aid on the four year college affordability problem.", ">\n\nThat sounds like a generalization. My CC had 35k students and many professors were former university professors who no longer wanted to focus on research. \nThere’s always a trade off but I had a great experience.", ">\n\nI really just hope that these kinds of things mean the Dems are genuinely serious about doing something about this and not going to just give up.", ">\n\nWhat do you expect them to do exactly? It's amazing you are blaming Democrats for this.", ">\n\nI have no problem blaming Dems to a degree. Look, I get that right now there's nothing they can do - but this whole issue is bigger than right now. Both parties have had many many opportunities to do something about this. It's the same for so many issues. We spend our time blaming left or right when the reality is they've both been kicking the can down the road.", ">\n\nSo you admit there's nothing they can do but are still mad that they aren't doing anything? Despite a lot of pushback, Democrats did what they could do, and that's what got us here. Until we have enough people in Congress who give a shit, they can't do more.", ">\n\nThis is the shit they're going to throw you so the AG can stop defending the right of the president to cancel debt. This is who the Democratic Party fundamentally IS: a bait and switch organization that serves private capital", ">\n\nHow the fuck if this the Democrats fault? What would you rather have them do?", ">\n\n\nFeds propose 'student loan safety net' alongside forgiveness\n\nWill there be a proposal for a credit card safety net?", ">\n\nBankruptcy is the credit card safety net. We allow it for every debt except student loans.", ">\n\nNever gonna happen", ">\n\nThe solution is easy, make college much, much cheaper. Bare bones campus, 4 students to a room, class sizes of 1000, no sports teams unless they pay for themself. Government pays 7 figure salaries to Nobel quality profs to give lectures to 1mm students at a time. Classes about what jobs pay how much for all incoming freshman. Make freshman sign off on their understanding on how loans work. Doesn’t sound great, but tuition of 10K instead of 30K and next thing you know you are a very popular school.\nWhat makes such a college hard to maintain is existing colleges that offer a country club atmosphere, single rooms, d1 sports, flashy alumni, small class sizes, and most of all, lenders willing to lend gobs of cash with no collateral. Makes the bare bones college look like crap, except this is what we really need.", ">\n\nHow about the just do a one time fee. Make the fee 1% of what you owe. The govt gets some of their money back and the loan is 99 percent forgiven. On 100k loan this would be 1000 dollars.", ">\n\ncheck your loans to make sure they won’t accrue interest under an education deferral\nenroll part time in fun classes at community college for less than the cost of your student loan payments (you know you always wanted to learn pottery!)\napply for an education deferral\nrepeat until student loans are canceled or you don’t feel like taking fun classes anymore" ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession.", ">\n\nHow about they go after the root of the problem, the government guaranteed loans?", ">\n\nKeep the loans, but only give them to people going to colleges that keep their tuition under a certain amount. If they don't want to set their prices reasonably, they don't deserve any federal money.", ">\n\nThey could also change the rules. When you graduate highschool, loans can only be applied to a community college.\nThen when you have a two year diploma, transfer to a 4 year school, and you are eligible for undergrad loans.\nAfter 4 years, you have the same degree as everybody else, with much less debt. And if school isn't for you, maybe you can stop after two years and still have something to show for it.", ">\n\nCommunity college is a fantastic option, but it does lack certain opportunities. I went the CC route and got a bachelors degree from a state school with something like $7k debt total, which is great. But when I transferred over, I missed out on several intern and research opportunities that were given to students who already knew the faculty, had taken several classes from them, had experience in the appropriate clubs and labs, etc. I found other opportunities, but many of those student positions lead directly to job offers that just aren't available without them. Just a thought.", ">\n\nPeople on Reddit love to champion community colleges as a one-size fits all solution but there are definitely drawbacks. I taught at a community college for a semester and I wouldn't begin to claim that I had the same resources as a university professor. The students definitely suffer from the lack of resources and opportunities. \nCommunity colleges are often underresourced and trying to fill multiple missions. People forget that the majority of community college students aren't looking to transfer. For a lot of people, the CC is where they get their education for their career or trade. There are a lot of careers that only require a degree or certification from a community college. Those are the students who CCs are best positioned to serve and we should make sure THOSE programs have the resources necessary to prep people for their careers. \nCommunity colleges do not even remotely compare to an actual four year college or university, not in terms of resources in the classrooms or the extracurriculars that they can offer. At a community college, your professor is going to be someone like me, a schmuck with a masters degree who knows enough about a topic to teach an intro class. At a university, your professor is going to be someone actively doing research, with whom you can work and get more knowledge in your field. \nA CC simply does not compare to a university and we're really doing a disservice to lower income kids by suggesting that they're remotely comparable. The whole \"go to CC and transfer\" rhetoric seems like a band-aid on the gushing wound of unaffordability in higher education. \nThis isn't even a knock at community colleges, they deserve more resources to serve the community. They should be able to offer robust trade and career oriented courses and continuing education courses for people in the community. We should stop looking to them as a band-aid on the four year college affordability problem.", ">\n\nThat sounds like a generalization. My CC had 35k students and many professors were former university professors who no longer wanted to focus on research. \nThere’s always a trade off but I had a great experience.", ">\n\nI really just hope that these kinds of things mean the Dems are genuinely serious about doing something about this and not going to just give up.", ">\n\nWhat do you expect them to do exactly? It's amazing you are blaming Democrats for this.", ">\n\nI have no problem blaming Dems to a degree. Look, I get that right now there's nothing they can do - but this whole issue is bigger than right now. Both parties have had many many opportunities to do something about this. It's the same for so many issues. We spend our time blaming left or right when the reality is they've both been kicking the can down the road.", ">\n\nSo you admit there's nothing they can do but are still mad that they aren't doing anything? Despite a lot of pushback, Democrats did what they could do, and that's what got us here. Until we have enough people in Congress who give a shit, they can't do more.", ">\n\nThis is the shit they're going to throw you so the AG can stop defending the right of the president to cancel debt. This is who the Democratic Party fundamentally IS: a bait and switch organization that serves private capital", ">\n\nHow the fuck if this the Democrats fault? What would you rather have them do?", ">\n\n\nFeds propose 'student loan safety net' alongside forgiveness\n\nWill there be a proposal for a credit card safety net?", ">\n\nBankruptcy is the credit card safety net. We allow it for every debt except student loans.", ">\n\nNever gonna happen", ">\n\nThe solution is easy, make college much, much cheaper. Bare bones campus, 4 students to a room, class sizes of 1000, no sports teams unless they pay for themself. Government pays 7 figure salaries to Nobel quality profs to give lectures to 1mm students at a time. Classes about what jobs pay how much for all incoming freshman. Make freshman sign off on their understanding on how loans work. Doesn’t sound great, but tuition of 10K instead of 30K and next thing you know you are a very popular school.\nWhat makes such a college hard to maintain is existing colleges that offer a country club atmosphere, single rooms, d1 sports, flashy alumni, small class sizes, and most of all, lenders willing to lend gobs of cash with no collateral. Makes the bare bones college look like crap, except this is what we really need.", ">\n\nHow about the just do a one time fee. Make the fee 1% of what you owe. The govt gets some of their money back and the loan is 99 percent forgiven. On 100k loan this would be 1000 dollars.", ">\n\ncheck your loans to make sure they won’t accrue interest under an education deferral\nenroll part time in fun classes at community college for less than the cost of your student loan payments (you know you always wanted to learn pottery!)\napply for an education deferral\nrepeat until student loans are canceled or you don’t feel like taking fun classes anymore", ">\n\nI payed all my student loans off. So f$ck me right?" ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession.", ">\n\nHow about they go after the root of the problem, the government guaranteed loans?", ">\n\nKeep the loans, but only give them to people going to colleges that keep their tuition under a certain amount. If they don't want to set their prices reasonably, they don't deserve any federal money.", ">\n\nThey could also change the rules. When you graduate highschool, loans can only be applied to a community college.\nThen when you have a two year diploma, transfer to a 4 year school, and you are eligible for undergrad loans.\nAfter 4 years, you have the same degree as everybody else, with much less debt. And if school isn't for you, maybe you can stop after two years and still have something to show for it.", ">\n\nCommunity college is a fantastic option, but it does lack certain opportunities. I went the CC route and got a bachelors degree from a state school with something like $7k debt total, which is great. But when I transferred over, I missed out on several intern and research opportunities that were given to students who already knew the faculty, had taken several classes from them, had experience in the appropriate clubs and labs, etc. I found other opportunities, but many of those student positions lead directly to job offers that just aren't available without them. Just a thought.", ">\n\nPeople on Reddit love to champion community colleges as a one-size fits all solution but there are definitely drawbacks. I taught at a community college for a semester and I wouldn't begin to claim that I had the same resources as a university professor. The students definitely suffer from the lack of resources and opportunities. \nCommunity colleges are often underresourced and trying to fill multiple missions. People forget that the majority of community college students aren't looking to transfer. For a lot of people, the CC is where they get their education for their career or trade. There are a lot of careers that only require a degree or certification from a community college. Those are the students who CCs are best positioned to serve and we should make sure THOSE programs have the resources necessary to prep people for their careers. \nCommunity colleges do not even remotely compare to an actual four year college or university, not in terms of resources in the classrooms or the extracurriculars that they can offer. At a community college, your professor is going to be someone like me, a schmuck with a masters degree who knows enough about a topic to teach an intro class. At a university, your professor is going to be someone actively doing research, with whom you can work and get more knowledge in your field. \nA CC simply does not compare to a university and we're really doing a disservice to lower income kids by suggesting that they're remotely comparable. The whole \"go to CC and transfer\" rhetoric seems like a band-aid on the gushing wound of unaffordability in higher education. \nThis isn't even a knock at community colleges, they deserve more resources to serve the community. They should be able to offer robust trade and career oriented courses and continuing education courses for people in the community. We should stop looking to them as a band-aid on the four year college affordability problem.", ">\n\nThat sounds like a generalization. My CC had 35k students and many professors were former university professors who no longer wanted to focus on research. \nThere’s always a trade off but I had a great experience.", ">\n\nI really just hope that these kinds of things mean the Dems are genuinely serious about doing something about this and not going to just give up.", ">\n\nWhat do you expect them to do exactly? It's amazing you are blaming Democrats for this.", ">\n\nI have no problem blaming Dems to a degree. Look, I get that right now there's nothing they can do - but this whole issue is bigger than right now. Both parties have had many many opportunities to do something about this. It's the same for so many issues. We spend our time blaming left or right when the reality is they've both been kicking the can down the road.", ">\n\nSo you admit there's nothing they can do but are still mad that they aren't doing anything? Despite a lot of pushback, Democrats did what they could do, and that's what got us here. Until we have enough people in Congress who give a shit, they can't do more.", ">\n\nThis is the shit they're going to throw you so the AG can stop defending the right of the president to cancel debt. This is who the Democratic Party fundamentally IS: a bait and switch organization that serves private capital", ">\n\nHow the fuck if this the Democrats fault? What would you rather have them do?", ">\n\n\nFeds propose 'student loan safety net' alongside forgiveness\n\nWill there be a proposal for a credit card safety net?", ">\n\nBankruptcy is the credit card safety net. We allow it for every debt except student loans.", ">\n\nNever gonna happen", ">\n\nThe solution is easy, make college much, much cheaper. Bare bones campus, 4 students to a room, class sizes of 1000, no sports teams unless they pay for themself. Government pays 7 figure salaries to Nobel quality profs to give lectures to 1mm students at a time. Classes about what jobs pay how much for all incoming freshman. Make freshman sign off on their understanding on how loans work. Doesn’t sound great, but tuition of 10K instead of 30K and next thing you know you are a very popular school.\nWhat makes such a college hard to maintain is existing colleges that offer a country club atmosphere, single rooms, d1 sports, flashy alumni, small class sizes, and most of all, lenders willing to lend gobs of cash with no collateral. Makes the bare bones college look like crap, except this is what we really need.", ">\n\nHow about the just do a one time fee. Make the fee 1% of what you owe. The govt gets some of their money back and the loan is 99 percent forgiven. On 100k loan this would be 1000 dollars.", ">\n\ncheck your loans to make sure they won’t accrue interest under an education deferral\nenroll part time in fun classes at community college for less than the cost of your student loan payments (you know you always wanted to learn pottery!)\napply for an education deferral\nrepeat until student loans are canceled or you don’t feel like taking fun classes anymore", ">\n\nI payed all my student loans off. So f$ck me right?", ">\n\nYeah god forbid anything gets easier for anyone else." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession.", ">\n\nHow about they go after the root of the problem, the government guaranteed loans?", ">\n\nKeep the loans, but only give them to people going to colleges that keep their tuition under a certain amount. If they don't want to set their prices reasonably, they don't deserve any federal money.", ">\n\nThey could also change the rules. When you graduate highschool, loans can only be applied to a community college.\nThen when you have a two year diploma, transfer to a 4 year school, and you are eligible for undergrad loans.\nAfter 4 years, you have the same degree as everybody else, with much less debt. And if school isn't for you, maybe you can stop after two years and still have something to show for it.", ">\n\nCommunity college is a fantastic option, but it does lack certain opportunities. I went the CC route and got a bachelors degree from a state school with something like $7k debt total, which is great. But when I transferred over, I missed out on several intern and research opportunities that were given to students who already knew the faculty, had taken several classes from them, had experience in the appropriate clubs and labs, etc. I found other opportunities, but many of those student positions lead directly to job offers that just aren't available without them. Just a thought.", ">\n\nPeople on Reddit love to champion community colleges as a one-size fits all solution but there are definitely drawbacks. I taught at a community college for a semester and I wouldn't begin to claim that I had the same resources as a university professor. The students definitely suffer from the lack of resources and opportunities. \nCommunity colleges are often underresourced and trying to fill multiple missions. People forget that the majority of community college students aren't looking to transfer. For a lot of people, the CC is where they get their education for their career or trade. There are a lot of careers that only require a degree or certification from a community college. Those are the students who CCs are best positioned to serve and we should make sure THOSE programs have the resources necessary to prep people for their careers. \nCommunity colleges do not even remotely compare to an actual four year college or university, not in terms of resources in the classrooms or the extracurriculars that they can offer. At a community college, your professor is going to be someone like me, a schmuck with a masters degree who knows enough about a topic to teach an intro class. At a university, your professor is going to be someone actively doing research, with whom you can work and get more knowledge in your field. \nA CC simply does not compare to a university and we're really doing a disservice to lower income kids by suggesting that they're remotely comparable. The whole \"go to CC and transfer\" rhetoric seems like a band-aid on the gushing wound of unaffordability in higher education. \nThis isn't even a knock at community colleges, they deserve more resources to serve the community. They should be able to offer robust trade and career oriented courses and continuing education courses for people in the community. We should stop looking to them as a band-aid on the four year college affordability problem.", ">\n\nThat sounds like a generalization. My CC had 35k students and many professors were former university professors who no longer wanted to focus on research. \nThere’s always a trade off but I had a great experience.", ">\n\nI really just hope that these kinds of things mean the Dems are genuinely serious about doing something about this and not going to just give up.", ">\n\nWhat do you expect them to do exactly? It's amazing you are blaming Democrats for this.", ">\n\nI have no problem blaming Dems to a degree. Look, I get that right now there's nothing they can do - but this whole issue is bigger than right now. Both parties have had many many opportunities to do something about this. It's the same for so many issues. We spend our time blaming left or right when the reality is they've both been kicking the can down the road.", ">\n\nSo you admit there's nothing they can do but are still mad that they aren't doing anything? Despite a lot of pushback, Democrats did what they could do, and that's what got us here. Until we have enough people in Congress who give a shit, they can't do more.", ">\n\nThis is the shit they're going to throw you so the AG can stop defending the right of the president to cancel debt. This is who the Democratic Party fundamentally IS: a bait and switch organization that serves private capital", ">\n\nHow the fuck if this the Democrats fault? What would you rather have them do?", ">\n\n\nFeds propose 'student loan safety net' alongside forgiveness\n\nWill there be a proposal for a credit card safety net?", ">\n\nBankruptcy is the credit card safety net. We allow it for every debt except student loans.", ">\n\nNever gonna happen", ">\n\nThe solution is easy, make college much, much cheaper. Bare bones campus, 4 students to a room, class sizes of 1000, no sports teams unless they pay for themself. Government pays 7 figure salaries to Nobel quality profs to give lectures to 1mm students at a time. Classes about what jobs pay how much for all incoming freshman. Make freshman sign off on their understanding on how loans work. Doesn’t sound great, but tuition of 10K instead of 30K and next thing you know you are a very popular school.\nWhat makes such a college hard to maintain is existing colleges that offer a country club atmosphere, single rooms, d1 sports, flashy alumni, small class sizes, and most of all, lenders willing to lend gobs of cash with no collateral. Makes the bare bones college look like crap, except this is what we really need.", ">\n\nHow about the just do a one time fee. Make the fee 1% of what you owe. The govt gets some of their money back and the loan is 99 percent forgiven. On 100k loan this would be 1000 dollars.", ">\n\ncheck your loans to make sure they won’t accrue interest under an education deferral\nenroll part time in fun classes at community college for less than the cost of your student loan payments (you know you always wanted to learn pottery!)\napply for an education deferral\nrepeat until student loans are canceled or you don’t feel like taking fun classes anymore", ">\n\nI payed all my student loans off. So f$ck me right?", ">\n\nYeah god forbid anything gets easier for anyone else.", ">\n\nI also want free money because I was responsible" ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession.", ">\n\nHow about they go after the root of the problem, the government guaranteed loans?", ">\n\nKeep the loans, but only give them to people going to colleges that keep their tuition under a certain amount. If they don't want to set their prices reasonably, they don't deserve any federal money.", ">\n\nThey could also change the rules. When you graduate highschool, loans can only be applied to a community college.\nThen when you have a two year diploma, transfer to a 4 year school, and you are eligible for undergrad loans.\nAfter 4 years, you have the same degree as everybody else, with much less debt. And if school isn't for you, maybe you can stop after two years and still have something to show for it.", ">\n\nCommunity college is a fantastic option, but it does lack certain opportunities. I went the CC route and got a bachelors degree from a state school with something like $7k debt total, which is great. But when I transferred over, I missed out on several intern and research opportunities that were given to students who already knew the faculty, had taken several classes from them, had experience in the appropriate clubs and labs, etc. I found other opportunities, but many of those student positions lead directly to job offers that just aren't available without them. Just a thought.", ">\n\nPeople on Reddit love to champion community colleges as a one-size fits all solution but there are definitely drawbacks. I taught at a community college for a semester and I wouldn't begin to claim that I had the same resources as a university professor. The students definitely suffer from the lack of resources and opportunities. \nCommunity colleges are often underresourced and trying to fill multiple missions. People forget that the majority of community college students aren't looking to transfer. For a lot of people, the CC is where they get their education for their career or trade. There are a lot of careers that only require a degree or certification from a community college. Those are the students who CCs are best positioned to serve and we should make sure THOSE programs have the resources necessary to prep people for their careers. \nCommunity colleges do not even remotely compare to an actual four year college or university, not in terms of resources in the classrooms or the extracurriculars that they can offer. At a community college, your professor is going to be someone like me, a schmuck with a masters degree who knows enough about a topic to teach an intro class. At a university, your professor is going to be someone actively doing research, with whom you can work and get more knowledge in your field. \nA CC simply does not compare to a university and we're really doing a disservice to lower income kids by suggesting that they're remotely comparable. The whole \"go to CC and transfer\" rhetoric seems like a band-aid on the gushing wound of unaffordability in higher education. \nThis isn't even a knock at community colleges, they deserve more resources to serve the community. They should be able to offer robust trade and career oriented courses and continuing education courses for people in the community. We should stop looking to them as a band-aid on the four year college affordability problem.", ">\n\nThat sounds like a generalization. My CC had 35k students and many professors were former university professors who no longer wanted to focus on research. \nThere’s always a trade off but I had a great experience.", ">\n\nI really just hope that these kinds of things mean the Dems are genuinely serious about doing something about this and not going to just give up.", ">\n\nWhat do you expect them to do exactly? It's amazing you are blaming Democrats for this.", ">\n\nI have no problem blaming Dems to a degree. Look, I get that right now there's nothing they can do - but this whole issue is bigger than right now. Both parties have had many many opportunities to do something about this. It's the same for so many issues. We spend our time blaming left or right when the reality is they've both been kicking the can down the road.", ">\n\nSo you admit there's nothing they can do but are still mad that they aren't doing anything? Despite a lot of pushback, Democrats did what they could do, and that's what got us here. Until we have enough people in Congress who give a shit, they can't do more.", ">\n\nThis is the shit they're going to throw you so the AG can stop defending the right of the president to cancel debt. This is who the Democratic Party fundamentally IS: a bait and switch organization that serves private capital", ">\n\nHow the fuck if this the Democrats fault? What would you rather have them do?", ">\n\n\nFeds propose 'student loan safety net' alongside forgiveness\n\nWill there be a proposal for a credit card safety net?", ">\n\nBankruptcy is the credit card safety net. We allow it for every debt except student loans.", ">\n\nNever gonna happen", ">\n\nThe solution is easy, make college much, much cheaper. Bare bones campus, 4 students to a room, class sizes of 1000, no sports teams unless they pay for themself. Government pays 7 figure salaries to Nobel quality profs to give lectures to 1mm students at a time. Classes about what jobs pay how much for all incoming freshman. Make freshman sign off on their understanding on how loans work. Doesn’t sound great, but tuition of 10K instead of 30K and next thing you know you are a very popular school.\nWhat makes such a college hard to maintain is existing colleges that offer a country club atmosphere, single rooms, d1 sports, flashy alumni, small class sizes, and most of all, lenders willing to lend gobs of cash with no collateral. Makes the bare bones college look like crap, except this is what we really need.", ">\n\nHow about the just do a one time fee. Make the fee 1% of what you owe. The govt gets some of their money back and the loan is 99 percent forgiven. On 100k loan this would be 1000 dollars.", ">\n\ncheck your loans to make sure they won’t accrue interest under an education deferral\nenroll part time in fun classes at community college for less than the cost of your student loan payments (you know you always wanted to learn pottery!)\napply for an education deferral\nrepeat until student loans are canceled or you don’t feel like taking fun classes anymore", ">\n\nI payed all my student loans off. So f$ck me right?", ">\n\nYeah god forbid anything gets easier for anyone else.", ">\n\nI also want free money because I was responsible", ">\n\nOk." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession.", ">\n\nHow about they go after the root of the problem, the government guaranteed loans?", ">\n\nKeep the loans, but only give them to people going to colleges that keep their tuition under a certain amount. If they don't want to set their prices reasonably, they don't deserve any federal money.", ">\n\nThey could also change the rules. When you graduate highschool, loans can only be applied to a community college.\nThen when you have a two year diploma, transfer to a 4 year school, and you are eligible for undergrad loans.\nAfter 4 years, you have the same degree as everybody else, with much less debt. And if school isn't for you, maybe you can stop after two years and still have something to show for it.", ">\n\nCommunity college is a fantastic option, but it does lack certain opportunities. I went the CC route and got a bachelors degree from a state school with something like $7k debt total, which is great. But when I transferred over, I missed out on several intern and research opportunities that were given to students who already knew the faculty, had taken several classes from them, had experience in the appropriate clubs and labs, etc. I found other opportunities, but many of those student positions lead directly to job offers that just aren't available without them. Just a thought.", ">\n\nPeople on Reddit love to champion community colleges as a one-size fits all solution but there are definitely drawbacks. I taught at a community college for a semester and I wouldn't begin to claim that I had the same resources as a university professor. The students definitely suffer from the lack of resources and opportunities. \nCommunity colleges are often underresourced and trying to fill multiple missions. People forget that the majority of community college students aren't looking to transfer. For a lot of people, the CC is where they get their education for their career or trade. There are a lot of careers that only require a degree or certification from a community college. Those are the students who CCs are best positioned to serve and we should make sure THOSE programs have the resources necessary to prep people for their careers. \nCommunity colleges do not even remotely compare to an actual four year college or university, not in terms of resources in the classrooms or the extracurriculars that they can offer. At a community college, your professor is going to be someone like me, a schmuck with a masters degree who knows enough about a topic to teach an intro class. At a university, your professor is going to be someone actively doing research, with whom you can work and get more knowledge in your field. \nA CC simply does not compare to a university and we're really doing a disservice to lower income kids by suggesting that they're remotely comparable. The whole \"go to CC and transfer\" rhetoric seems like a band-aid on the gushing wound of unaffordability in higher education. \nThis isn't even a knock at community colleges, they deserve more resources to serve the community. They should be able to offer robust trade and career oriented courses and continuing education courses for people in the community. We should stop looking to them as a band-aid on the four year college affordability problem.", ">\n\nThat sounds like a generalization. My CC had 35k students and many professors were former university professors who no longer wanted to focus on research. \nThere’s always a trade off but I had a great experience.", ">\n\nI really just hope that these kinds of things mean the Dems are genuinely serious about doing something about this and not going to just give up.", ">\n\nWhat do you expect them to do exactly? It's amazing you are blaming Democrats for this.", ">\n\nI have no problem blaming Dems to a degree. Look, I get that right now there's nothing they can do - but this whole issue is bigger than right now. Both parties have had many many opportunities to do something about this. It's the same for so many issues. We spend our time blaming left or right when the reality is they've both been kicking the can down the road.", ">\n\nSo you admit there's nothing they can do but are still mad that they aren't doing anything? Despite a lot of pushback, Democrats did what they could do, and that's what got us here. Until we have enough people in Congress who give a shit, they can't do more.", ">\n\nThis is the shit they're going to throw you so the AG can stop defending the right of the president to cancel debt. This is who the Democratic Party fundamentally IS: a bait and switch organization that serves private capital", ">\n\nHow the fuck if this the Democrats fault? What would you rather have them do?", ">\n\n\nFeds propose 'student loan safety net' alongside forgiveness\n\nWill there be a proposal for a credit card safety net?", ">\n\nBankruptcy is the credit card safety net. We allow it for every debt except student loans.", ">\n\nNever gonna happen", ">\n\nThe solution is easy, make college much, much cheaper. Bare bones campus, 4 students to a room, class sizes of 1000, no sports teams unless they pay for themself. Government pays 7 figure salaries to Nobel quality profs to give lectures to 1mm students at a time. Classes about what jobs pay how much for all incoming freshman. Make freshman sign off on their understanding on how loans work. Doesn’t sound great, but tuition of 10K instead of 30K and next thing you know you are a very popular school.\nWhat makes such a college hard to maintain is existing colleges that offer a country club atmosphere, single rooms, d1 sports, flashy alumni, small class sizes, and most of all, lenders willing to lend gobs of cash with no collateral. Makes the bare bones college look like crap, except this is what we really need.", ">\n\nHow about the just do a one time fee. Make the fee 1% of what you owe. The govt gets some of their money back and the loan is 99 percent forgiven. On 100k loan this would be 1000 dollars.", ">\n\ncheck your loans to make sure they won’t accrue interest under an education deferral\nenroll part time in fun classes at community college for less than the cost of your student loan payments (you know you always wanted to learn pottery!)\napply for an education deferral\nrepeat until student loans are canceled or you don’t feel like taking fun classes anymore", ">\n\nI payed all my student loans off. So f$ck me right?", ">\n\nYeah god forbid anything gets easier for anyone else.", ">\n\nI also want free money because I was responsible", ">\n\nOk.", ">\n\nThe answer is to link government student loans to the major of the student. If you're a computer science major that has an average starting salary of $80,000 then you can borrow up to $360,000. If you are a gender studies major that has an average starting salary of $25,000 then you can borrow up to $100,000. Why are we bailing out people that spend money on college that their occupation will never be able to repay?" ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession.", ">\n\nHow about they go after the root of the problem, the government guaranteed loans?", ">\n\nKeep the loans, but only give them to people going to colleges that keep their tuition under a certain amount. If they don't want to set their prices reasonably, they don't deserve any federal money.", ">\n\nThey could also change the rules. When you graduate highschool, loans can only be applied to a community college.\nThen when you have a two year diploma, transfer to a 4 year school, and you are eligible for undergrad loans.\nAfter 4 years, you have the same degree as everybody else, with much less debt. And if school isn't for you, maybe you can stop after two years and still have something to show for it.", ">\n\nCommunity college is a fantastic option, but it does lack certain opportunities. I went the CC route and got a bachelors degree from a state school with something like $7k debt total, which is great. But when I transferred over, I missed out on several intern and research opportunities that were given to students who already knew the faculty, had taken several classes from them, had experience in the appropriate clubs and labs, etc. I found other opportunities, but many of those student positions lead directly to job offers that just aren't available without them. Just a thought.", ">\n\nPeople on Reddit love to champion community colleges as a one-size fits all solution but there are definitely drawbacks. I taught at a community college for a semester and I wouldn't begin to claim that I had the same resources as a university professor. The students definitely suffer from the lack of resources and opportunities. \nCommunity colleges are often underresourced and trying to fill multiple missions. People forget that the majority of community college students aren't looking to transfer. For a lot of people, the CC is where they get their education for their career or trade. There are a lot of careers that only require a degree or certification from a community college. Those are the students who CCs are best positioned to serve and we should make sure THOSE programs have the resources necessary to prep people for their careers. \nCommunity colleges do not even remotely compare to an actual four year college or university, not in terms of resources in the classrooms or the extracurriculars that they can offer. At a community college, your professor is going to be someone like me, a schmuck with a masters degree who knows enough about a topic to teach an intro class. At a university, your professor is going to be someone actively doing research, with whom you can work and get more knowledge in your field. \nA CC simply does not compare to a university and we're really doing a disservice to lower income kids by suggesting that they're remotely comparable. The whole \"go to CC and transfer\" rhetoric seems like a band-aid on the gushing wound of unaffordability in higher education. \nThis isn't even a knock at community colleges, they deserve more resources to serve the community. They should be able to offer robust trade and career oriented courses and continuing education courses for people in the community. We should stop looking to them as a band-aid on the four year college affordability problem.", ">\n\nThat sounds like a generalization. My CC had 35k students and many professors were former university professors who no longer wanted to focus on research. \nThere’s always a trade off but I had a great experience.", ">\n\nI really just hope that these kinds of things mean the Dems are genuinely serious about doing something about this and not going to just give up.", ">\n\nWhat do you expect them to do exactly? It's amazing you are blaming Democrats for this.", ">\n\nI have no problem blaming Dems to a degree. Look, I get that right now there's nothing they can do - but this whole issue is bigger than right now. Both parties have had many many opportunities to do something about this. It's the same for so many issues. We spend our time blaming left or right when the reality is they've both been kicking the can down the road.", ">\n\nSo you admit there's nothing they can do but are still mad that they aren't doing anything? Despite a lot of pushback, Democrats did what they could do, and that's what got us here. Until we have enough people in Congress who give a shit, they can't do more.", ">\n\nThis is the shit they're going to throw you so the AG can stop defending the right of the president to cancel debt. This is who the Democratic Party fundamentally IS: a bait and switch organization that serves private capital", ">\n\nHow the fuck if this the Democrats fault? What would you rather have them do?", ">\n\n\nFeds propose 'student loan safety net' alongside forgiveness\n\nWill there be a proposal for a credit card safety net?", ">\n\nBankruptcy is the credit card safety net. We allow it for every debt except student loans.", ">\n\nNever gonna happen", ">\n\nThe solution is easy, make college much, much cheaper. Bare bones campus, 4 students to a room, class sizes of 1000, no sports teams unless they pay for themself. Government pays 7 figure salaries to Nobel quality profs to give lectures to 1mm students at a time. Classes about what jobs pay how much for all incoming freshman. Make freshman sign off on their understanding on how loans work. Doesn’t sound great, but tuition of 10K instead of 30K and next thing you know you are a very popular school.\nWhat makes such a college hard to maintain is existing colleges that offer a country club atmosphere, single rooms, d1 sports, flashy alumni, small class sizes, and most of all, lenders willing to lend gobs of cash with no collateral. Makes the bare bones college look like crap, except this is what we really need.", ">\n\nHow about the just do a one time fee. Make the fee 1% of what you owe. The govt gets some of their money back and the loan is 99 percent forgiven. On 100k loan this would be 1000 dollars.", ">\n\ncheck your loans to make sure they won’t accrue interest under an education deferral\nenroll part time in fun classes at community college for less than the cost of your student loan payments (you know you always wanted to learn pottery!)\napply for an education deferral\nrepeat until student loans are canceled or you don’t feel like taking fun classes anymore", ">\n\nI payed all my student loans off. So f$ck me right?", ">\n\nYeah god forbid anything gets easier for anyone else.", ">\n\nI also want free money because I was responsible", ">\n\nOk.", ">\n\nThe answer is to link government student loans to the major of the student. If you're a computer science major that has an average starting salary of $80,000 then you can borrow up to $360,000. If you are a gender studies major that has an average starting salary of $25,000 then you can borrow up to $100,000. Why are we bailing out people that spend money on college that their occupation will never be able to repay?", ">\n\nYour numbers are well above the current maximum amount you can borrow in federal student loans. Go knock yourself out on private loans if you can get them but you can’t borrow more than $12k per year in federal loans and you can’t borrow more than 57k total for undergrad." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession.", ">\n\nHow about they go after the root of the problem, the government guaranteed loans?", ">\n\nKeep the loans, but only give them to people going to colleges that keep their tuition under a certain amount. If they don't want to set their prices reasonably, they don't deserve any federal money.", ">\n\nThey could also change the rules. When you graduate highschool, loans can only be applied to a community college.\nThen when you have a two year diploma, transfer to a 4 year school, and you are eligible for undergrad loans.\nAfter 4 years, you have the same degree as everybody else, with much less debt. And if school isn't for you, maybe you can stop after two years and still have something to show for it.", ">\n\nCommunity college is a fantastic option, but it does lack certain opportunities. I went the CC route and got a bachelors degree from a state school with something like $7k debt total, which is great. But when I transferred over, I missed out on several intern and research opportunities that were given to students who already knew the faculty, had taken several classes from them, had experience in the appropriate clubs and labs, etc. I found other opportunities, but many of those student positions lead directly to job offers that just aren't available without them. Just a thought.", ">\n\nPeople on Reddit love to champion community colleges as a one-size fits all solution but there are definitely drawbacks. I taught at a community college for a semester and I wouldn't begin to claim that I had the same resources as a university professor. The students definitely suffer from the lack of resources and opportunities. \nCommunity colleges are often underresourced and trying to fill multiple missions. People forget that the majority of community college students aren't looking to transfer. For a lot of people, the CC is where they get their education for their career or trade. There are a lot of careers that only require a degree or certification from a community college. Those are the students who CCs are best positioned to serve and we should make sure THOSE programs have the resources necessary to prep people for their careers. \nCommunity colleges do not even remotely compare to an actual four year college or university, not in terms of resources in the classrooms or the extracurriculars that they can offer. At a community college, your professor is going to be someone like me, a schmuck with a masters degree who knows enough about a topic to teach an intro class. At a university, your professor is going to be someone actively doing research, with whom you can work and get more knowledge in your field. \nA CC simply does not compare to a university and we're really doing a disservice to lower income kids by suggesting that they're remotely comparable. The whole \"go to CC and transfer\" rhetoric seems like a band-aid on the gushing wound of unaffordability in higher education. \nThis isn't even a knock at community colleges, they deserve more resources to serve the community. They should be able to offer robust trade and career oriented courses and continuing education courses for people in the community. We should stop looking to them as a band-aid on the four year college affordability problem.", ">\n\nThat sounds like a generalization. My CC had 35k students and many professors were former university professors who no longer wanted to focus on research. \nThere’s always a trade off but I had a great experience.", ">\n\nI really just hope that these kinds of things mean the Dems are genuinely serious about doing something about this and not going to just give up.", ">\n\nWhat do you expect them to do exactly? It's amazing you are blaming Democrats for this.", ">\n\nI have no problem blaming Dems to a degree. Look, I get that right now there's nothing they can do - but this whole issue is bigger than right now. Both parties have had many many opportunities to do something about this. It's the same for so many issues. We spend our time blaming left or right when the reality is they've both been kicking the can down the road.", ">\n\nSo you admit there's nothing they can do but are still mad that they aren't doing anything? Despite a lot of pushback, Democrats did what they could do, and that's what got us here. Until we have enough people in Congress who give a shit, they can't do more.", ">\n\nThis is the shit they're going to throw you so the AG can stop defending the right of the president to cancel debt. This is who the Democratic Party fundamentally IS: a bait and switch organization that serves private capital", ">\n\nHow the fuck if this the Democrats fault? What would you rather have them do?", ">\n\n\nFeds propose 'student loan safety net' alongside forgiveness\n\nWill there be a proposal for a credit card safety net?", ">\n\nBankruptcy is the credit card safety net. We allow it for every debt except student loans.", ">\n\nNever gonna happen", ">\n\nThe solution is easy, make college much, much cheaper. Bare bones campus, 4 students to a room, class sizes of 1000, no sports teams unless they pay for themself. Government pays 7 figure salaries to Nobel quality profs to give lectures to 1mm students at a time. Classes about what jobs pay how much for all incoming freshman. Make freshman sign off on their understanding on how loans work. Doesn’t sound great, but tuition of 10K instead of 30K and next thing you know you are a very popular school.\nWhat makes such a college hard to maintain is existing colleges that offer a country club atmosphere, single rooms, d1 sports, flashy alumni, small class sizes, and most of all, lenders willing to lend gobs of cash with no collateral. Makes the bare bones college look like crap, except this is what we really need.", ">\n\nHow about the just do a one time fee. Make the fee 1% of what you owe. The govt gets some of their money back and the loan is 99 percent forgiven. On 100k loan this would be 1000 dollars.", ">\n\ncheck your loans to make sure they won’t accrue interest under an education deferral\nenroll part time in fun classes at community college for less than the cost of your student loan payments (you know you always wanted to learn pottery!)\napply for an education deferral\nrepeat until student loans are canceled or you don’t feel like taking fun classes anymore", ">\n\nI payed all my student loans off. So f$ck me right?", ">\n\nYeah god forbid anything gets easier for anyone else.", ">\n\nI also want free money because I was responsible", ">\n\nOk.", ">\n\nThe answer is to link government student loans to the major of the student. If you're a computer science major that has an average starting salary of $80,000 then you can borrow up to $360,000. If you are a gender studies major that has an average starting salary of $25,000 then you can borrow up to $100,000. Why are we bailing out people that spend money on college that their occupation will never be able to repay?", ">\n\nYour numbers are well above the current maximum amount you can borrow in federal student loans. Go knock yourself out on private loans if you can get them but you can’t borrow more than $12k per year in federal loans and you can’t borrow more than 57k total for undergrad.", ">\n\nI was really just giving an example of what should be done rather than giving specific numbers." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession.", ">\n\nHow about they go after the root of the problem, the government guaranteed loans?", ">\n\nKeep the loans, but only give them to people going to colleges that keep their tuition under a certain amount. If they don't want to set their prices reasonably, they don't deserve any federal money.", ">\n\nThey could also change the rules. When you graduate highschool, loans can only be applied to a community college.\nThen when you have a two year diploma, transfer to a 4 year school, and you are eligible for undergrad loans.\nAfter 4 years, you have the same degree as everybody else, with much less debt. And if school isn't for you, maybe you can stop after two years and still have something to show for it.", ">\n\nCommunity college is a fantastic option, but it does lack certain opportunities. I went the CC route and got a bachelors degree from a state school with something like $7k debt total, which is great. But when I transferred over, I missed out on several intern and research opportunities that were given to students who already knew the faculty, had taken several classes from them, had experience in the appropriate clubs and labs, etc. I found other opportunities, but many of those student positions lead directly to job offers that just aren't available without them. Just a thought.", ">\n\nPeople on Reddit love to champion community colleges as a one-size fits all solution but there are definitely drawbacks. I taught at a community college for a semester and I wouldn't begin to claim that I had the same resources as a university professor. The students definitely suffer from the lack of resources and opportunities. \nCommunity colleges are often underresourced and trying to fill multiple missions. People forget that the majority of community college students aren't looking to transfer. For a lot of people, the CC is where they get their education for their career or trade. There are a lot of careers that only require a degree or certification from a community college. Those are the students who CCs are best positioned to serve and we should make sure THOSE programs have the resources necessary to prep people for their careers. \nCommunity colleges do not even remotely compare to an actual four year college or university, not in terms of resources in the classrooms or the extracurriculars that they can offer. At a community college, your professor is going to be someone like me, a schmuck with a masters degree who knows enough about a topic to teach an intro class. At a university, your professor is going to be someone actively doing research, with whom you can work and get more knowledge in your field. \nA CC simply does not compare to a university and we're really doing a disservice to lower income kids by suggesting that they're remotely comparable. The whole \"go to CC and transfer\" rhetoric seems like a band-aid on the gushing wound of unaffordability in higher education. \nThis isn't even a knock at community colleges, they deserve more resources to serve the community. They should be able to offer robust trade and career oriented courses and continuing education courses for people in the community. We should stop looking to them as a band-aid on the four year college affordability problem.", ">\n\nThat sounds like a generalization. My CC had 35k students and many professors were former university professors who no longer wanted to focus on research. \nThere’s always a trade off but I had a great experience.", ">\n\nI really just hope that these kinds of things mean the Dems are genuinely serious about doing something about this and not going to just give up.", ">\n\nWhat do you expect them to do exactly? It's amazing you are blaming Democrats for this.", ">\n\nI have no problem blaming Dems to a degree. Look, I get that right now there's nothing they can do - but this whole issue is bigger than right now. Both parties have had many many opportunities to do something about this. It's the same for so many issues. We spend our time blaming left or right when the reality is they've both been kicking the can down the road.", ">\n\nSo you admit there's nothing they can do but are still mad that they aren't doing anything? Despite a lot of pushback, Democrats did what they could do, and that's what got us here. Until we have enough people in Congress who give a shit, they can't do more.", ">\n\nThis is the shit they're going to throw you so the AG can stop defending the right of the president to cancel debt. This is who the Democratic Party fundamentally IS: a bait and switch organization that serves private capital", ">\n\nHow the fuck if this the Democrats fault? What would you rather have them do?", ">\n\n\nFeds propose 'student loan safety net' alongside forgiveness\n\nWill there be a proposal for a credit card safety net?", ">\n\nBankruptcy is the credit card safety net. We allow it for every debt except student loans.", ">\n\nNever gonna happen", ">\n\nThe solution is easy, make college much, much cheaper. Bare bones campus, 4 students to a room, class sizes of 1000, no sports teams unless they pay for themself. Government pays 7 figure salaries to Nobel quality profs to give lectures to 1mm students at a time. Classes about what jobs pay how much for all incoming freshman. Make freshman sign off on their understanding on how loans work. Doesn’t sound great, but tuition of 10K instead of 30K and next thing you know you are a very popular school.\nWhat makes such a college hard to maintain is existing colleges that offer a country club atmosphere, single rooms, d1 sports, flashy alumni, small class sizes, and most of all, lenders willing to lend gobs of cash with no collateral. Makes the bare bones college look like crap, except this is what we really need.", ">\n\nHow about the just do a one time fee. Make the fee 1% of what you owe. The govt gets some of their money back and the loan is 99 percent forgiven. On 100k loan this would be 1000 dollars.", ">\n\ncheck your loans to make sure they won’t accrue interest under an education deferral\nenroll part time in fun classes at community college for less than the cost of your student loan payments (you know you always wanted to learn pottery!)\napply for an education deferral\nrepeat until student loans are canceled or you don’t feel like taking fun classes anymore", ">\n\nI payed all my student loans off. So f$ck me right?", ">\n\nYeah god forbid anything gets easier for anyone else.", ">\n\nI also want free money because I was responsible", ">\n\nOk.", ">\n\nThe answer is to link government student loans to the major of the student. If you're a computer science major that has an average starting salary of $80,000 then you can borrow up to $360,000. If you are a gender studies major that has an average starting salary of $25,000 then you can borrow up to $100,000. Why are we bailing out people that spend money on college that their occupation will never be able to repay?", ">\n\nYour numbers are well above the current maximum amount you can borrow in federal student loans. Go knock yourself out on private loans if you can get them but you can’t borrow more than $12k per year in federal loans and you can’t borrow more than 57k total for undergrad.", ">\n\nI was really just giving an example of what should be done rather than giving specific numbers.", ">\n\nGotcha. There do seem to quite a number of people in this thread who think the federal student loan program is a limitless program. The problem is rarely the amount borrowed - it’s the fact that these loans are calculated using compounding instead of simple interest. \nMost new graduates, regardless of their major, will take several years to reach an income level where they can afford to pay under the 10 year standard repayment terms. Interest under the income based plans continues to compound as normal. Also any small financial setback you have along the way (life happens, layoffs happens) allowing them to take a deferment causes balances to absolutely balloon." ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession.", ">\n\nHow about they go after the root of the problem, the government guaranteed loans?", ">\n\nKeep the loans, but only give them to people going to colleges that keep their tuition under a certain amount. If they don't want to set their prices reasonably, they don't deserve any federal money.", ">\n\nThey could also change the rules. When you graduate highschool, loans can only be applied to a community college.\nThen when you have a two year diploma, transfer to a 4 year school, and you are eligible for undergrad loans.\nAfter 4 years, you have the same degree as everybody else, with much less debt. And if school isn't for you, maybe you can stop after two years and still have something to show for it.", ">\n\nCommunity college is a fantastic option, but it does lack certain opportunities. I went the CC route and got a bachelors degree from a state school with something like $7k debt total, which is great. But when I transferred over, I missed out on several intern and research opportunities that were given to students who already knew the faculty, had taken several classes from them, had experience in the appropriate clubs and labs, etc. I found other opportunities, but many of those student positions lead directly to job offers that just aren't available without them. Just a thought.", ">\n\nPeople on Reddit love to champion community colleges as a one-size fits all solution but there are definitely drawbacks. I taught at a community college for a semester and I wouldn't begin to claim that I had the same resources as a university professor. The students definitely suffer from the lack of resources and opportunities. \nCommunity colleges are often underresourced and trying to fill multiple missions. People forget that the majority of community college students aren't looking to transfer. For a lot of people, the CC is where they get their education for their career or trade. There are a lot of careers that only require a degree or certification from a community college. Those are the students who CCs are best positioned to serve and we should make sure THOSE programs have the resources necessary to prep people for their careers. \nCommunity colleges do not even remotely compare to an actual four year college or university, not in terms of resources in the classrooms or the extracurriculars that they can offer. At a community college, your professor is going to be someone like me, a schmuck with a masters degree who knows enough about a topic to teach an intro class. At a university, your professor is going to be someone actively doing research, with whom you can work and get more knowledge in your field. \nA CC simply does not compare to a university and we're really doing a disservice to lower income kids by suggesting that they're remotely comparable. The whole \"go to CC and transfer\" rhetoric seems like a band-aid on the gushing wound of unaffordability in higher education. \nThis isn't even a knock at community colleges, they deserve more resources to serve the community. They should be able to offer robust trade and career oriented courses and continuing education courses for people in the community. We should stop looking to them as a band-aid on the four year college affordability problem.", ">\n\nThat sounds like a generalization. My CC had 35k students and many professors were former university professors who no longer wanted to focus on research. \nThere’s always a trade off but I had a great experience.", ">\n\nI really just hope that these kinds of things mean the Dems are genuinely serious about doing something about this and not going to just give up.", ">\n\nWhat do you expect them to do exactly? It's amazing you are blaming Democrats for this.", ">\n\nI have no problem blaming Dems to a degree. Look, I get that right now there's nothing they can do - but this whole issue is bigger than right now. Both parties have had many many opportunities to do something about this. It's the same for so many issues. We spend our time blaming left or right when the reality is they've both been kicking the can down the road.", ">\n\nSo you admit there's nothing they can do but are still mad that they aren't doing anything? Despite a lot of pushback, Democrats did what they could do, and that's what got us here. Until we have enough people in Congress who give a shit, they can't do more.", ">\n\nThis is the shit they're going to throw you so the AG can stop defending the right of the president to cancel debt. This is who the Democratic Party fundamentally IS: a bait and switch organization that serves private capital", ">\n\nHow the fuck if this the Democrats fault? What would you rather have them do?", ">\n\n\nFeds propose 'student loan safety net' alongside forgiveness\n\nWill there be a proposal for a credit card safety net?", ">\n\nBankruptcy is the credit card safety net. We allow it for every debt except student loans.", ">\n\nNever gonna happen", ">\n\nThe solution is easy, make college much, much cheaper. Bare bones campus, 4 students to a room, class sizes of 1000, no sports teams unless they pay for themself. Government pays 7 figure salaries to Nobel quality profs to give lectures to 1mm students at a time. Classes about what jobs pay how much for all incoming freshman. Make freshman sign off on their understanding on how loans work. Doesn’t sound great, but tuition of 10K instead of 30K and next thing you know you are a very popular school.\nWhat makes such a college hard to maintain is existing colleges that offer a country club atmosphere, single rooms, d1 sports, flashy alumni, small class sizes, and most of all, lenders willing to lend gobs of cash with no collateral. Makes the bare bones college look like crap, except this is what we really need.", ">\n\nHow about the just do a one time fee. Make the fee 1% of what you owe. The govt gets some of their money back and the loan is 99 percent forgiven. On 100k loan this would be 1000 dollars.", ">\n\ncheck your loans to make sure they won’t accrue interest under an education deferral\nenroll part time in fun classes at community college for less than the cost of your student loan payments (you know you always wanted to learn pottery!)\napply for an education deferral\nrepeat until student loans are canceled or you don’t feel like taking fun classes anymore", ">\n\nI payed all my student loans off. So f$ck me right?", ">\n\nYeah god forbid anything gets easier for anyone else.", ">\n\nI also want free money because I was responsible", ">\n\nOk.", ">\n\nThe answer is to link government student loans to the major of the student. If you're a computer science major that has an average starting salary of $80,000 then you can borrow up to $360,000. If you are a gender studies major that has an average starting salary of $25,000 then you can borrow up to $100,000. Why are we bailing out people that spend money on college that their occupation will never be able to repay?", ">\n\nYour numbers are well above the current maximum amount you can borrow in federal student loans. Go knock yourself out on private loans if you can get them but you can’t borrow more than $12k per year in federal loans and you can’t borrow more than 57k total for undergrad.", ">\n\nI was really just giving an example of what should be done rather than giving specific numbers.", ">\n\nGotcha. There do seem to quite a number of people in this thread who think the federal student loan program is a limitless program. The problem is rarely the amount borrowed - it’s the fact that these loans are calculated using compounding instead of simple interest. \nMost new graduates, regardless of their major, will take several years to reach an income level where they can afford to pay under the 10 year standard repayment terms. Interest under the income based plans continues to compound as normal. Also any small financial setback you have along the way (life happens, layoffs happens) allowing them to take a deferment causes balances to absolutely balloon.", ">\n\nLower payments means stimulating demand and stimulating demand means higher prices which means more borrowing - Economics 101" ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession.", ">\n\nHow about they go after the root of the problem, the government guaranteed loans?", ">\n\nKeep the loans, but only give them to people going to colleges that keep their tuition under a certain amount. If they don't want to set their prices reasonably, they don't deserve any federal money.", ">\n\nThey could also change the rules. When you graduate highschool, loans can only be applied to a community college.\nThen when you have a two year diploma, transfer to a 4 year school, and you are eligible for undergrad loans.\nAfter 4 years, you have the same degree as everybody else, with much less debt. And if school isn't for you, maybe you can stop after two years and still have something to show for it.", ">\n\nCommunity college is a fantastic option, but it does lack certain opportunities. I went the CC route and got a bachelors degree from a state school with something like $7k debt total, which is great. But when I transferred over, I missed out on several intern and research opportunities that were given to students who already knew the faculty, had taken several classes from them, had experience in the appropriate clubs and labs, etc. I found other opportunities, but many of those student positions lead directly to job offers that just aren't available without them. Just a thought.", ">\n\nPeople on Reddit love to champion community colleges as a one-size fits all solution but there are definitely drawbacks. I taught at a community college for a semester and I wouldn't begin to claim that I had the same resources as a university professor. The students definitely suffer from the lack of resources and opportunities. \nCommunity colleges are often underresourced and trying to fill multiple missions. People forget that the majority of community college students aren't looking to transfer. For a lot of people, the CC is where they get their education for their career or trade. There are a lot of careers that only require a degree or certification from a community college. Those are the students who CCs are best positioned to serve and we should make sure THOSE programs have the resources necessary to prep people for their careers. \nCommunity colleges do not even remotely compare to an actual four year college or university, not in terms of resources in the classrooms or the extracurriculars that they can offer. At a community college, your professor is going to be someone like me, a schmuck with a masters degree who knows enough about a topic to teach an intro class. At a university, your professor is going to be someone actively doing research, with whom you can work and get more knowledge in your field. \nA CC simply does not compare to a university and we're really doing a disservice to lower income kids by suggesting that they're remotely comparable. The whole \"go to CC and transfer\" rhetoric seems like a band-aid on the gushing wound of unaffordability in higher education. \nThis isn't even a knock at community colleges, they deserve more resources to serve the community. They should be able to offer robust trade and career oriented courses and continuing education courses for people in the community. We should stop looking to them as a band-aid on the four year college affordability problem.", ">\n\nThat sounds like a generalization. My CC had 35k students and many professors were former university professors who no longer wanted to focus on research. \nThere’s always a trade off but I had a great experience.", ">\n\nI really just hope that these kinds of things mean the Dems are genuinely serious about doing something about this and not going to just give up.", ">\n\nWhat do you expect them to do exactly? It's amazing you are blaming Democrats for this.", ">\n\nI have no problem blaming Dems to a degree. Look, I get that right now there's nothing they can do - but this whole issue is bigger than right now. Both parties have had many many opportunities to do something about this. It's the same for so many issues. We spend our time blaming left or right when the reality is they've both been kicking the can down the road.", ">\n\nSo you admit there's nothing they can do but are still mad that they aren't doing anything? Despite a lot of pushback, Democrats did what they could do, and that's what got us here. Until we have enough people in Congress who give a shit, they can't do more.", ">\n\nThis is the shit they're going to throw you so the AG can stop defending the right of the president to cancel debt. This is who the Democratic Party fundamentally IS: a bait and switch organization that serves private capital", ">\n\nHow the fuck if this the Democrats fault? What would you rather have them do?", ">\n\n\nFeds propose 'student loan safety net' alongside forgiveness\n\nWill there be a proposal for a credit card safety net?", ">\n\nBankruptcy is the credit card safety net. We allow it for every debt except student loans.", ">\n\nNever gonna happen", ">\n\nThe solution is easy, make college much, much cheaper. Bare bones campus, 4 students to a room, class sizes of 1000, no sports teams unless they pay for themself. Government pays 7 figure salaries to Nobel quality profs to give lectures to 1mm students at a time. Classes about what jobs pay how much for all incoming freshman. Make freshman sign off on their understanding on how loans work. Doesn’t sound great, but tuition of 10K instead of 30K and next thing you know you are a very popular school.\nWhat makes such a college hard to maintain is existing colleges that offer a country club atmosphere, single rooms, d1 sports, flashy alumni, small class sizes, and most of all, lenders willing to lend gobs of cash with no collateral. Makes the bare bones college look like crap, except this is what we really need.", ">\n\nHow about the just do a one time fee. Make the fee 1% of what you owe. The govt gets some of their money back and the loan is 99 percent forgiven. On 100k loan this would be 1000 dollars.", ">\n\ncheck your loans to make sure they won’t accrue interest under an education deferral\nenroll part time in fun classes at community college for less than the cost of your student loan payments (you know you always wanted to learn pottery!)\napply for an education deferral\nrepeat until student loans are canceled or you don’t feel like taking fun classes anymore", ">\n\nI payed all my student loans off. So f$ck me right?", ">\n\nYeah god forbid anything gets easier for anyone else.", ">\n\nI also want free money because I was responsible", ">\n\nOk.", ">\n\nThe answer is to link government student loans to the major of the student. If you're a computer science major that has an average starting salary of $80,000 then you can borrow up to $360,000. If you are a gender studies major that has an average starting salary of $25,000 then you can borrow up to $100,000. Why are we bailing out people that spend money on college that their occupation will never be able to repay?", ">\n\nYour numbers are well above the current maximum amount you can borrow in federal student loans. Go knock yourself out on private loans if you can get them but you can’t borrow more than $12k per year in federal loans and you can’t borrow more than 57k total for undergrad.", ">\n\nI was really just giving an example of what should be done rather than giving specific numbers.", ">\n\nGotcha. There do seem to quite a number of people in this thread who think the federal student loan program is a limitless program. The problem is rarely the amount borrowed - it’s the fact that these loans are calculated using compounding instead of simple interest. \nMost new graduates, regardless of their major, will take several years to reach an income level where they can afford to pay under the 10 year standard repayment terms. Interest under the income based plans continues to compound as normal. Also any small financial setback you have along the way (life happens, layoffs happens) allowing them to take a deferment causes balances to absolutely balloon.", ">\n\nLower payments means stimulating demand and stimulating demand means higher prices which means more borrowing - Economics 101", ">\n\n\"We didn't bother to stop the bleeding because we weren't sure how to remove the bullet\"" ]

[ "I have yet to figure out why they don’t try and reduce the interest rate and late fees. That’s what kills people. You see people all the time saying I borrowed $20k for college and now it’s $65k. Reduce the interest rate to 1-2% and abolish all late fees.", ">\n\nInterest rate is set by Congress each year based on treasury yields - it's established law. The executive can't change it.\n\nInterest rates on federal student loans are set by federal law, not the U.S. Department of Education.\n\nThere have been several pieces of legislation introduced to lower or even remove interest rates, but Congress doesn't have the majorities to pass them.\nNeeds the House and Senate, and 60 votes in the Senate until there is filibuster reform.\nSo, like many problems in the student debt crisis, we need large majorities of higher-education-friendly representatives for progress.", ">\n\nSo, not republicans then", ">\n\nGeorge W. Bush signed the bill that created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program so, at one point, Republicans cared about student debt. \nThe problem is that anti-intellectualism and the rise of populism has convinced them that the kid studying at the local State U is a secret communist and a member of the elite.", ">\n\nMy uncle, a staunch conservative, was convinced that an NSF grant/scholarship I received to finish my Bachelor's Degree meant that the government was going to dictate what the results of my undergraduate research were. (My undergraduate research at a small liberal arts college was a great for learning how to do science, but not nearly important enough for anyone to even consider faking results one way or another.) He also told me that I was being brainwashed just for attending college. This was around 10 years ago, and the man had been a grade school teacher for decades. SMH.", ">\n\nThanks Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich and Roger Ailes", ">\n\nThe anti intellectualism of the religious right is far older than them. Some of the crazier denominations actively discourage people from getting higher education as it makes you worldly and encourages sin.", ">\n\nIt's one of those materialist feel good ideas that the anti-intellectualism is a function of the religious aspect of the party. In fact, it's a function of the capitalist. The corporate structure wishes to keep the public ignorant and ill-informed so they can be exploited easier.\nThey hate student loan forgiveness because they're furious it made higher education available to the public.", ">\n\nDepends on the corporation. Many are completely reliant on higher education churning out STEM degrees for them to have the properly educated workforce. The bourgeoisie is deeply divided and not a monolith.\nI truly think there is a psychological type that hates everyone they perceive to have higher social status than them (the uneducated who hate the educated) and wish to force those people below them in the social hierarchy. Fascism is built on said resentments.", ">\n\nThose same corporations will gladly import STEM grads from abroad at a fraction of the going rate for American workers after conveniently being unable to find suitable domestic talent.", ">\n\nConservatives on their way to tell us how Safety Nets are unfair unless it is for them specifically", ">\n\n\"I didn't get any help from the government! I worked my way out of welfare all the way to Congress! I never got any handouts!\"\n\nLauren Boebert, paraphrased", ">\n\nYou don’t need to even make up a fake quote. Conservatives have you covered.\n\nI've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision.\n\n-Staunch conservative Craig T Nelson", ">\n\nthe selfawarewolves and leopards will feast on american politics for a while to come.", ">\n\nNo payments if you make under $30,600. 5% income cap for undergraduate loans under IDR. These are two very good changes that will help a lot of borrowers if FSA can figure out funding and implementation.", ">\n\nEven at just $50k, 5% of your monthly salary is $208. That’s simply infeasible when your take-home is $38k ($3166), rent is probably $1-1.2k, car anywhere from 200-500, insurance, gas, groceries, etc etc.", ">\n\n\nThat’s simply infeasible\n\nIt's definitely not. Anyone with basic personal finance skills can handle this.", ">\n\nAh yes because basic personal finance is a required part of high school curriculum across the US.. /s", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US, and probably should be required everywhere.\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense and put together a budget?", ">\n\n\nIt is part of the high school curriculum in parts of the US\n\nKey word here is parts.\n\nand probably should be required everywhere.\n\nProbably?? Let’s just go ahead and replace that word with “definitely”. \n\nAre you not permitted to learn things elsewhere, or just apply some common sense\n\nMy friend, it sounds like you were raised in a family that actually has common sense - or perhaps you watched your family struggle and you said “not me” and were motivated to figure out what was going on… or maybe you were one of those rare kids lucky enough to learn actual common sense life skills in your high school curriculum. Whatever it is that’s going on here, please don’t make assumptions that the rest of the worlds youth understands how important it is (or even has the motivation) to learn about debt and finances. You are a product of where you grew up and plenty of kids, and plenty of those kids parents were never required to learn about this stuff.", ">\n\nI'm not sure what the point of this sanctimonious lecture is. Did you see where the person I replied to originally said it's simply infeasible for someone to pay $250 a month on loans when they're making $5k a month? Do you realize how stupid that statement is?\nAnyone who graduated from high school, let alone college, should be intelligent enough to do some basic math and set aside $250 of their $5000 monthly gross income to pay for the loans they used to get the degree that helped them make $60k a year.\nIf they don't know how and are unwilling to learn (particularly due to a lack of motivation), I really don't see that as my personal problem to help them out with financial assistance (which is what all IBR programs are).", ">\n\nThe problem with this $5,000 is that it’s gross. Take out retirement, healthcare, taxes and you are left with $3k. Half of that 3k easily goes for rent or mortgage. Clearly, you can’t drive in this scenario because a car payment and insurance seem out of touch if you want to eat and pay other bills.", ">\n\nYou're not even close to correct for the average American. Even if you are, they still have $1250 for a car, insurance, utilities, clothing, and food each month after paying for all the things you mentioned (including $1500 per month for housing, which is very high for one person) and their student loans. Definitely doable.", ">\n\nYou are you assuming this person doesn’t get to have a kid or family?", ">\n\nLoans will be forgiven after 10 years if you took out less than $12,000, and an additional year for each $1,000 beyond that. So if you took out $37,000 in loans (the current average) you will be paying it back for 35 years now instead of 25? How is that any better? There is no mention of a cap on how long you have to pay anymore. So the people who really got screwed over and took out $100,000 will never be able to pay them back.", ">\n\nI was thinking that, too. Hopefully, it stops at 25 years. My previous payment plan allowed for 25 years, with this proposed plan I'm fucked.", ">\n\nOne thing they should simply do is increase the after graduation grace period from six months to like 5 years or so (and not charge interest during this time, of course).\nSix months is kinda just a ridiculously short amount of time for students that kinda haven't even been in the workforce for several years to get a job and gain steady enough income to cover all their expenses and then the loan repayment on top of that. Very absurd.\nThe loans would still be paid back, just delayed, so the loan companies can't complain they won't make their money back. \nA lot of students already have to apply for deferment and forbearance after the grace period ends, so extending the grace period would really just cut out a couple extra steps.\nIf we are selling the idea to kids that a college education is enough of a benefit to their future careers and income to be worth saddling themselves with these thousands of dollars in student loan debts, it goes along with the idea that in 5 years time, they will be way more set up to pay the loans back than if they had never gone attended college in the first place.", ">\n\nThat’s the first time I’ve ever seen this suggested, and I think that’s a fantastic idea. I graduated in ‘19 and it’s been a rocky road to say the least, but by 2024 I should be in a good spot to pay back my loans, if they aren’t forgiven.", ">\n\nIt's a good start, but it doesn't touch upon the root issue: A job requiring a college degree shouldn't pay $30K a year. I worry this plan will just further incentivize companies to continue offering poverty wages for jobs that require college degrees, making these student loan changes a form of corporate welfare. \nI guess this plan makes sense for people who struggle to find jobs after graduating, but if you work in your chosen career field it doesn't make much sense. It should be against the law to offer such low wages while requiring a college degree. No one should go $50K in debt for a psychology degree only to make $30K as a social worker.", ">\n\nI applied for an environmental specialist/compliance job in Dublin, CA which requires a degree. I don’t have experience in that field but went to a research university and had hands on experience in the environmental field. In the interview the lady asked my desired salary. I said preferably between 60-70k depending on the duties of the position, I thought that was reasonable given the location (Dublin is very expensive , like really expensive even in CA measure) and work that would need to be done. She said bc of my lack of experience she couldn’t offer me anything about 40-45k. 40k is the base with no experience. I understand that experience is essential and stuff but how the fuck is that the base pay? In DUBLIN?! Who can survive on that much? She mentioned that they do bonus pay every month and it would total out to be around 60-65k a year but even then that doesn’t sound very secure… the base pay is only $21 an hour, with a fucking college degree in the stem field (environmental science). I can go work at in n out down the street and be compensated almost as much. Hell, I think even teachers get paid more (love teachers, no disrespect they deserve way more), and I’m currently subbing making base $32 an hour…why the hell would I accept that job? Mind you it does have benefits but even then…40k is actual poverty wages, and it’s literally exploiting people without experience.", ">\n\nI'm not far from collecting Social Security retirement. It would really help me out for the remaining 7K in debt to be gone. Only in America - Social Security retirement and student loans.", ">\n\nHow long have you had those student loans?", ">\n\nI obtained them in my late 40's to early 50's when I went back for a Comp Sci degree. I've paid 2 of the 3 beck, and the last one (the largest one) has a little over 7K. I'm 64.", ">\n\nDo you regret the degree? Curious as I’m 42 and going back to school and shitting my pants about loans", ">\n\nI'm mixed. I didn't really need it for my job (Software Developer), but I always felt bad about not finishing my degree. So I did it for myself. I didn't learn a whole lot, most I already knew from experience. And they certainly don't teach you how to code. But I did learn some things - analysis of algorithms and did get a good math refresher. I feel better about myself except for the debt I incurred. It's why I didn't do a Master's.", ">\n\nI know that the Republicans’ SCOTUS argument is that Biden’s plan is not fair, but this is not an honest or legitimate argument. In 2002, President George W. Bush granted the Secretary of Education authority to waive federal student loans through the Higher Education Relief Act. \nIt’s telling that a billionaire spent his spare time suing to stop Biden's student debt forgiveness that helps the poor and middle working class. The lawsuit challenging student loan forgiveness was filed by the Jobs Creators Network Foundation, a conservative advocacy group founded by billionaire Bernard “Bernie” Marcus, former CEO of Home Depot. While railing against student loan relief, Marcus conveniently leaves out how he used his Jobs Creators Network to launch bus tours in 2017 and 2018 to promote Trump’s infamous tax cuts for the rich. \nThe honest legal argument would be we believe tax cuts for the rich are good and student loan relief for poor and middle working class is bad.", ">\n\nHow is that proper use of PPP loans? He should be required to pay it all back.", ">\n\n\nPPP loans?\n\nWhere did you get on this tangent?", ">\n\nthe only solution that will work is fixing the actual problem of universities charging 60k a year for tuition. everything else is a bandaid", ">\n\nThere should be a certain amount of years that pass after one’s last set of loans go into repayment, that allow people to qualify for bankruptcy. I don’t know what the number is but after a certain amount of time I think it’s fair to say someone’s degree isn’t going to magically matter more or suddenly make them enough money to live in luxury. Most people didn’t really need the degree they received…at all. It’s painful to see and think about actually\nEdit: most of the people who have issues repaying their loans/it sincerely effects their lives have loans from graduate school for majors outside of things like medicine or business. The reforms deliberately exclude this demographic of person lmfao", ">\n\nI actually like the idea of a safety net better than the forgiveness. Forgiveness is great for those in need now, but a safety net could be beneficial for future generations.", ">\n\nSounds like both would juice the economy and make things better for seeking out education", ">\n\nI really have a feeling (I know - my feelings are worth nothing, but regardless I’ll speak…) that the Biden admin wouldn’t have gone this far without a pretty solid legal strategy. It just seems like way too big of a political loss for Ds. Again this is just a feeling. But of course the Rs need to challenge it and make it look like they’re doing something.", ">\n\nwell like Biden said the other day its true that blocking this would set terrible fucking precedents. With this surpreme court all bets are off but there is still a pretty good chance they recognize the standing on these is bullshit.", ">\n\nWhen they’ll do it for banks and corporations, but not the people, it’s time to burn this motherfuker down.", ">\n\nThis is just people throwing gasoline on the dumpster fire that is our college funding scheme, and then patting themselves on the back at the same time.\nI find it hard to believe that the people developing these policies are too dumb or uninformed to understand what this is going to do to tuition costs, so I wonder what their actual agenda is.", ">\n\nIt's just a fucking show. They waited until RIGHT before the midterms to do it. Which like, I get you need the political win for turnout and at least they were trying to deliver on a promise but it just felt like too little too late. They got what they wanted in the midterms and now, o golly it might not quite be what we said. Fucking half ass solutions from dems and pure chaos and insanity from republicans.", ">\n\n\nThey got what they wanted in the midterms and now, ~~o golly it might not quite be what we said~~.\n\nRepublicans are throwing the kitchen sink to stop it in the courts out of spite. FIFY.", ">\n\nSeriously. That dude is blaming Biden because Republicans are blocking the forgiveness.", ">\n\nNope. Cancel them all.", ">\n\nWipe all balances and student loans illegal moving forward. It’s predatory and it traps kids in debt. Colleges would be forced to figure out a way to make it cost effective. 40 years ago dorms didn’t have air conditioning and colleges didn’t pay someone 150k a year to be Director of Diversity Inclusion, that would be a good start. The end goal should be for middle-lower middle class families to afford college without having to go balls deep into debt.", ">\n\nNot to mention these private companies that handle student loan servicing are incompetent at best and criminals at worst. \nMy original student loan servicer, MyFedLoan, shut down after they got caught committing criminal fraud against PSLF borrowers. They transferred my loans to a new company called Edfinancial Services, chosen without my consent. Their website looked straight out of the 1990s and so horribly insecure I thought it was a scam. Two months later I am notified Edfinancal Services was breached and my personal information stolen. They had my account for two months and got it stolen. \nThese are the companies we trust to carry out student loans? Criminals, all of them.", ">\n\nJust let me bankrupt out of the fucking things just like every rich asshole does for all the debt they’ve racked up when we have a recession.", ">\n\nHow about they go after the root of the problem, the government guaranteed loans?", ">\n\nKeep the loans, but only give them to people going to colleges that keep their tuition under a certain amount. If they don't want to set their prices reasonably, they don't deserve any federal money.", ">\n\nThey could also change the rules. When you graduate highschool, loans can only be applied to a community college.\nThen when you have a two year diploma, transfer to a 4 year school, and you are eligible for undergrad loans.\nAfter 4 years, you have the same degree as everybody else, with much less debt. And if school isn't for you, maybe you can stop after two years and still have something to show for it.", ">\n\nCommunity college is a fantastic option, but it does lack certain opportunities. I went the CC route and got a bachelors degree from a state school with something like $7k debt total, which is great. But when I transferred over, I missed out on several intern and research opportunities that were given to students who already knew the faculty, had taken several classes from them, had experience in the appropriate clubs and labs, etc. I found other opportunities, but many of those student positions lead directly to job offers that just aren't available without them. Just a thought.", ">\n\nPeople on Reddit love to champion community colleges as a one-size fits all solution but there are definitely drawbacks. I taught at a community college for a semester and I wouldn't begin to claim that I had the same resources as a university professor. The students definitely suffer from the lack of resources and opportunities. \nCommunity colleges are often underresourced and trying to fill multiple missions. People forget that the majority of community college students aren't looking to transfer. For a lot of people, the CC is where they get their education for their career or trade. There are a lot of careers that only require a degree or certification from a community college. Those are the students who CCs are best positioned to serve and we should make sure THOSE programs have the resources necessary to prep people for their careers. \nCommunity colleges do not even remotely compare to an actual four year college or university, not in terms of resources in the classrooms or the extracurriculars that they can offer. At a community college, your professor is going to be someone like me, a schmuck with a masters degree who knows enough about a topic to teach an intro class. At a university, your professor is going to be someone actively doing research, with whom you can work and get more knowledge in your field. \nA CC simply does not compare to a university and we're really doing a disservice to lower income kids by suggesting that they're remotely comparable. The whole \"go to CC and transfer\" rhetoric seems like a band-aid on the gushing wound of unaffordability in higher education. \nThis isn't even a knock at community colleges, they deserve more resources to serve the community. They should be able to offer robust trade and career oriented courses and continuing education courses for people in the community. We should stop looking to them as a band-aid on the four year college affordability problem.", ">\n\nThat sounds like a generalization. My CC had 35k students and many professors were former university professors who no longer wanted to focus on research. \nThere’s always a trade off but I had a great experience.", ">\n\nI really just hope that these kinds of things mean the Dems are genuinely serious about doing something about this and not going to just give up.", ">\n\nWhat do you expect them to do exactly? It's amazing you are blaming Democrats for this.", ">\n\nI have no problem blaming Dems to a degree. Look, I get that right now there's nothing they can do - but this whole issue is bigger than right now. Both parties have had many many opportunities to do something about this. It's the same for so many issues. We spend our time blaming left or right when the reality is they've both been kicking the can down the road.", ">\n\nSo you admit there's nothing they can do but are still mad that they aren't doing anything? Despite a lot of pushback, Democrats did what they could do, and that's what got us here. Until we have enough people in Congress who give a shit, they can't do more.", ">\n\nThis is the shit they're going to throw you so the AG can stop defending the right of the president to cancel debt. This is who the Democratic Party fundamentally IS: a bait and switch organization that serves private capital", ">\n\nHow the fuck if this the Democrats fault? What would you rather have them do?", ">\n\n\nFeds propose 'student loan safety net' alongside forgiveness\n\nWill there be a proposal for a credit card safety net?", ">\n\nBankruptcy is the credit card safety net. We allow it for every debt except student loans.", ">\n\nNever gonna happen", ">\n\nThe solution is easy, make college much, much cheaper. Bare bones campus, 4 students to a room, class sizes of 1000, no sports teams unless they pay for themself. Government pays 7 figure salaries to Nobel quality profs to give lectures to 1mm students at a time. Classes about what jobs pay how much for all incoming freshman. Make freshman sign off on their understanding on how loans work. Doesn’t sound great, but tuition of 10K instead of 30K and next thing you know you are a very popular school.\nWhat makes such a college hard to maintain is existing colleges that offer a country club atmosphere, single rooms, d1 sports, flashy alumni, small class sizes, and most of all, lenders willing to lend gobs of cash with no collateral. Makes the bare bones college look like crap, except this is what we really need.", ">\n\nHow about the just do a one time fee. Make the fee 1% of what you owe. The govt gets some of their money back and the loan is 99 percent forgiven. On 100k loan this would be 1000 dollars.", ">\n\ncheck your loans to make sure they won’t accrue interest under an education deferral\nenroll part time in fun classes at community college for less than the cost of your student loan payments (you know you always wanted to learn pottery!)\napply for an education deferral\nrepeat until student loans are canceled or you don’t feel like taking fun classes anymore", ">\n\nI payed all my student loans off. So f$ck me right?", ">\n\nYeah god forbid anything gets easier for anyone else.", ">\n\nI also want free money because I was responsible", ">\n\nOk.", ">\n\nThe answer is to link government student loans to the major of the student. If you're a computer science major that has an average starting salary of $80,000 then you can borrow up to $360,000. If you are a gender studies major that has an average starting salary of $25,000 then you can borrow up to $100,000. Why are we bailing out people that spend money on college that their occupation will never be able to repay?", ">\n\nYour numbers are well above the current maximum amount you can borrow in federal student loans. Go knock yourself out on private loans if you can get them but you can’t borrow more than $12k per year in federal loans and you can’t borrow more than 57k total for undergrad.", ">\n\nI was really just giving an example of what should be done rather than giving specific numbers.", ">\n\nGotcha. There do seem to quite a number of people in this thread who think the federal student loan program is a limitless program. The problem is rarely the amount borrowed - it’s the fact that these loans are calculated using compounding instead of simple interest. \nMost new graduates, regardless of their major, will take several years to reach an income level where they can afford to pay under the 10 year standard repayment terms. Interest under the income based plans continues to compound as normal. Also any small financial setback you have along the way (life happens, layoffs happens) allowing them to take a deferment causes balances to absolutely balloon.", ">\n\nLower payments means stimulating demand and stimulating demand means higher prices which means more borrowing - Economics 101", ">\n\n\"We didn't bother to stop the bleeding because we weren't sure how to remove the bullet\"", ">\n\nYou remove it by removing the loans which are stimulating demand which reduces supply and causes prices to rise" ]

[]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election" ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational." ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”" ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago" ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago", ">\n\nThe cherry on the cake is that the Q propagandists (who are incredibly good at what they do, given the market they are targeting), cover their bases by making a dozen predictions each day. Then when one comes true they say ‘SEE! We were right so we’ll be right about the others too!”. Broken clock theory at its finest.\nThey started out with very specific predictions (x event will happen on this exact date) and then kept being more and more vague. For a few months now my buddy has basically stopped passing them on, but at one point he’d say ‘something big is supposed to happen tomorrow. You’ll be sorry for ever doubting.’ I’d ask him what was going to happen and he would just repeat that there’s murmurs of something big doing down. \nApparently that’s all it takes to keep them tuning in for more. ‘Something big could happen tomorrow or maybe next week or the month after!’ Which could literally be anything. The shotgun approach to prognosticating." ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago", ">\n\nThe cherry on the cake is that the Q propagandists (who are incredibly good at what they do, given the market they are targeting), cover their bases by making a dozen predictions each day. Then when one comes true they say ‘SEE! We were right so we’ll be right about the others too!”. Broken clock theory at its finest.\nThey started out with very specific predictions (x event will happen on this exact date) and then kept being more and more vague. For a few months now my buddy has basically stopped passing them on, but at one point he’d say ‘something big is supposed to happen tomorrow. You’ll be sorry for ever doubting.’ I’d ask him what was going to happen and he would just repeat that there’s murmurs of something big doing down. \nApparently that’s all it takes to keep them tuning in for more. ‘Something big could happen tomorrow or maybe next week or the month after!’ Which could literally be anything. The shotgun approach to prognosticating.", ">\n\nFor over a year these people would tell me they were making popcorn in order to watch all the trials they promised me were going to happen within days. I don’t think they talk about making popcorn anymore but they’re still sure it’s going to happen any day now. They’ve sunk so much time and effort into believing this shit and doing their own “research” into it that they can’t now admit it was all a foolish waste of time" ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago", ">\n\nThe cherry on the cake is that the Q propagandists (who are incredibly good at what they do, given the market they are targeting), cover their bases by making a dozen predictions each day. Then when one comes true they say ‘SEE! We were right so we’ll be right about the others too!”. Broken clock theory at its finest.\nThey started out with very specific predictions (x event will happen on this exact date) and then kept being more and more vague. For a few months now my buddy has basically stopped passing them on, but at one point he’d say ‘something big is supposed to happen tomorrow. You’ll be sorry for ever doubting.’ I’d ask him what was going to happen and he would just repeat that there’s murmurs of something big doing down. \nApparently that’s all it takes to keep them tuning in for more. ‘Something big could happen tomorrow or maybe next week or the month after!’ Which could literally be anything. The shotgun approach to prognosticating.", ">\n\nFor over a year these people would tell me they were making popcorn in order to watch all the trials they promised me were going to happen within days. I don’t think they talk about making popcorn anymore but they’re still sure it’s going to happen any day now. They’ve sunk so much time and effort into believing this shit and doing their own “research” into it that they can’t now admit it was all a foolish waste of time", ">\n\nOf course not. My childhood friend has been indoctrinated for the past 2.5 years. He’s a seasonal worker who doesn’t love to work. So when he isn’t working (half the year) he’s listening to 4-6 hours per day of this propaganda. He has podcasts and YouTube videos in one ear while he falls asleep, or while he watched sports or plays video games, but mostly while he scrolls his Instagram and Telegram and Signal apps. \nImagine having to face the reality that he’s spent thousands of hours for nothing (being fooled). He can’t do it. At this point he’s need a detox and deprogramming therapy, which to him would be literally joining Satan worshipers. Not figuratively; he believes Dems and anyone rich or anyone who provides conflicting information to be influenced by Satan or evil Jews or the new world order or Bill Gates or Soros, etc. \nIt’s a lost cause." ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago", ">\n\nThe cherry on the cake is that the Q propagandists (who are incredibly good at what they do, given the market they are targeting), cover their bases by making a dozen predictions each day. Then when one comes true they say ‘SEE! We were right so we’ll be right about the others too!”. Broken clock theory at its finest.\nThey started out with very specific predictions (x event will happen on this exact date) and then kept being more and more vague. For a few months now my buddy has basically stopped passing them on, but at one point he’d say ‘something big is supposed to happen tomorrow. You’ll be sorry for ever doubting.’ I’d ask him what was going to happen and he would just repeat that there’s murmurs of something big doing down. \nApparently that’s all it takes to keep them tuning in for more. ‘Something big could happen tomorrow or maybe next week or the month after!’ Which could literally be anything. The shotgun approach to prognosticating.", ">\n\nFor over a year these people would tell me they were making popcorn in order to watch all the trials they promised me were going to happen within days. I don’t think they talk about making popcorn anymore but they’re still sure it’s going to happen any day now. They’ve sunk so much time and effort into believing this shit and doing their own “research” into it that they can’t now admit it was all a foolish waste of time", ">\n\nOf course not. My childhood friend has been indoctrinated for the past 2.5 years. He’s a seasonal worker who doesn’t love to work. So when he isn’t working (half the year) he’s listening to 4-6 hours per day of this propaganda. He has podcasts and YouTube videos in one ear while he falls asleep, or while he watched sports or plays video games, but mostly while he scrolls his Instagram and Telegram and Signal apps. \nImagine having to face the reality that he’s spent thousands of hours for nothing (being fooled). He can’t do it. At this point he’s need a detox and deprogramming therapy, which to him would be literally joining Satan worshipers. Not figuratively; he believes Dems and anyone rich or anyone who provides conflicting information to be influenced by Satan or evil Jews or the new world order or Bill Gates or Soros, etc. \nIt’s a lost cause.", ">\n\nText for those who can't see b/c paywall:\n\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement." ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago", ">\n\nThe cherry on the cake is that the Q propagandists (who are incredibly good at what they do, given the market they are targeting), cover their bases by making a dozen predictions each day. Then when one comes true they say ‘SEE! We were right so we’ll be right about the others too!”. Broken clock theory at its finest.\nThey started out with very specific predictions (x event will happen on this exact date) and then kept being more and more vague. For a few months now my buddy has basically stopped passing them on, but at one point he’d say ‘something big is supposed to happen tomorrow. You’ll be sorry for ever doubting.’ I’d ask him what was going to happen and he would just repeat that there’s murmurs of something big doing down. \nApparently that’s all it takes to keep them tuning in for more. ‘Something big could happen tomorrow or maybe next week or the month after!’ Which could literally be anything. The shotgun approach to prognosticating.", ">\n\nFor over a year these people would tell me they were making popcorn in order to watch all the trials they promised me were going to happen within days. I don’t think they talk about making popcorn anymore but they’re still sure it’s going to happen any day now. They’ve sunk so much time and effort into believing this shit and doing their own “research” into it that they can’t now admit it was all a foolish waste of time", ">\n\nOf course not. My childhood friend has been indoctrinated for the past 2.5 years. He’s a seasonal worker who doesn’t love to work. So when he isn’t working (half the year) he’s listening to 4-6 hours per day of this propaganda. He has podcasts and YouTube videos in one ear while he falls asleep, or while he watched sports or plays video games, but mostly while he scrolls his Instagram and Telegram and Signal apps. \nImagine having to face the reality that he’s spent thousands of hours for nothing (being fooled). He can’t do it. At this point he’s need a detox and deprogramming therapy, which to him would be literally joining Satan worshipers. Not figuratively; he believes Dems and anyone rich or anyone who provides conflicting information to be influenced by Satan or evil Jews or the new world order or Bill Gates or Soros, etc. \nIt’s a lost cause.", ">\n\nText for those who can't see b/c paywall:\n\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nThe podcast Opening Arguments did a break down of why this case is total bullshit if anyone cares to listen. They break it down in easy to understand terms. Epidsode # 668. Episode is even done to appeal to those who may be inclined to believe this case has merit." ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago", ">\n\nThe cherry on the cake is that the Q propagandists (who are incredibly good at what they do, given the market they are targeting), cover their bases by making a dozen predictions each day. Then when one comes true they say ‘SEE! We were right so we’ll be right about the others too!”. Broken clock theory at its finest.\nThey started out with very specific predictions (x event will happen on this exact date) and then kept being more and more vague. For a few months now my buddy has basically stopped passing them on, but at one point he’d say ‘something big is supposed to happen tomorrow. You’ll be sorry for ever doubting.’ I’d ask him what was going to happen and he would just repeat that there’s murmurs of something big doing down. \nApparently that’s all it takes to keep them tuning in for more. ‘Something big could happen tomorrow or maybe next week or the month after!’ Which could literally be anything. The shotgun approach to prognosticating.", ">\n\nFor over a year these people would tell me they were making popcorn in order to watch all the trials they promised me were going to happen within days. I don’t think they talk about making popcorn anymore but they’re still sure it’s going to happen any day now. They’ve sunk so much time and effort into believing this shit and doing their own “research” into it that they can’t now admit it was all a foolish waste of time", ">\n\nOf course not. My childhood friend has been indoctrinated for the past 2.5 years. He’s a seasonal worker who doesn’t love to work. So when he isn’t working (half the year) he’s listening to 4-6 hours per day of this propaganda. He has podcasts and YouTube videos in one ear while he falls asleep, or while he watched sports or plays video games, but mostly while he scrolls his Instagram and Telegram and Signal apps. \nImagine having to face the reality that he’s spent thousands of hours for nothing (being fooled). He can’t do it. At this point he’s need a detox and deprogramming therapy, which to him would be literally joining Satan worshipers. Not figuratively; he believes Dems and anyone rich or anyone who provides conflicting information to be influenced by Satan or evil Jews or the new world order or Bill Gates or Soros, etc. \nIt’s a lost cause.", ">\n\nText for those who can't see b/c paywall:\n\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nThe podcast Opening Arguments did a break down of why this case is total bullshit if anyone cares to listen. They break it down in easy to understand terms. Epidsode # 668. Episode is even done to appeal to those who may be inclined to believe this case has merit.", ">\n\nGoing out on limb to guess it got thrown out because this...\n\nnearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud\n\n...is not at all how it's supposed to work anyway? That's not the job of Congress, that's for the DoJ and FBI to do.\nReally hope they get some frivolous-lawsuit charges for filing over a question which could have been answered with a 2-minute Google." ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago", ">\n\nThe cherry on the cake is that the Q propagandists (who are incredibly good at what they do, given the market they are targeting), cover their bases by making a dozen predictions each day. Then when one comes true they say ‘SEE! We were right so we’ll be right about the others too!”. Broken clock theory at its finest.\nThey started out with very specific predictions (x event will happen on this exact date) and then kept being more and more vague. For a few months now my buddy has basically stopped passing them on, but at one point he’d say ‘something big is supposed to happen tomorrow. You’ll be sorry for ever doubting.’ I’d ask him what was going to happen and he would just repeat that there’s murmurs of something big doing down. \nApparently that’s all it takes to keep them tuning in for more. ‘Something big could happen tomorrow or maybe next week or the month after!’ Which could literally be anything. The shotgun approach to prognosticating.", ">\n\nFor over a year these people would tell me they were making popcorn in order to watch all the trials they promised me were going to happen within days. I don’t think they talk about making popcorn anymore but they’re still sure it’s going to happen any day now. They’ve sunk so much time and effort into believing this shit and doing their own “research” into it that they can’t now admit it was all a foolish waste of time", ">\n\nOf course not. My childhood friend has been indoctrinated for the past 2.5 years. He’s a seasonal worker who doesn’t love to work. So when he isn’t working (half the year) he’s listening to 4-6 hours per day of this propaganda. He has podcasts and YouTube videos in one ear while he falls asleep, or while he watched sports or plays video games, but mostly while he scrolls his Instagram and Telegram and Signal apps. \nImagine having to face the reality that he’s spent thousands of hours for nothing (being fooled). He can’t do it. At this point he’s need a detox and deprogramming therapy, which to him would be literally joining Satan worshipers. Not figuratively; he believes Dems and anyone rich or anyone who provides conflicting information to be influenced by Satan or evil Jews or the new world order or Bill Gates or Soros, etc. \nIt’s a lost cause.", ">\n\nText for those who can't see b/c paywall:\n\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nThe podcast Opening Arguments did a break down of why this case is total bullshit if anyone cares to listen. They break it down in easy to understand terms. Epidsode # 668. Episode is even done to appeal to those who may be inclined to believe this case has merit.", ">\n\nGoing out on limb to guess it got thrown out because this...\n\nnearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud\n\n...is not at all how it's supposed to work anyway? That's not the job of Congress, that's for the DoJ and FBI to do.\nReally hope they get some frivolous-lawsuit charges for filing over a question which could have been answered with a 2-minute Google.", ">\n\nThe Q boards are on fire after this. They say the next step is an appeal to a military tribunal lol. And if the military doesn’t step in, it’s militia time. That a time to be alive" ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago", ">\n\nThe cherry on the cake is that the Q propagandists (who are incredibly good at what they do, given the market they are targeting), cover their bases by making a dozen predictions each day. Then when one comes true they say ‘SEE! We were right so we’ll be right about the others too!”. Broken clock theory at its finest.\nThey started out with very specific predictions (x event will happen on this exact date) and then kept being more and more vague. For a few months now my buddy has basically stopped passing them on, but at one point he’d say ‘something big is supposed to happen tomorrow. You’ll be sorry for ever doubting.’ I’d ask him what was going to happen and he would just repeat that there’s murmurs of something big doing down. \nApparently that’s all it takes to keep them tuning in for more. ‘Something big could happen tomorrow or maybe next week or the month after!’ Which could literally be anything. The shotgun approach to prognosticating.", ">\n\nFor over a year these people would tell me they were making popcorn in order to watch all the trials they promised me were going to happen within days. I don’t think they talk about making popcorn anymore but they’re still sure it’s going to happen any day now. They’ve sunk so much time and effort into believing this shit and doing their own “research” into it that they can’t now admit it was all a foolish waste of time", ">\n\nOf course not. My childhood friend has been indoctrinated for the past 2.5 years. He’s a seasonal worker who doesn’t love to work. So when he isn’t working (half the year) he’s listening to 4-6 hours per day of this propaganda. He has podcasts and YouTube videos in one ear while he falls asleep, or while he watched sports or plays video games, but mostly while he scrolls his Instagram and Telegram and Signal apps. \nImagine having to face the reality that he’s spent thousands of hours for nothing (being fooled). He can’t do it. At this point he’s need a detox and deprogramming therapy, which to him would be literally joining Satan worshipers. Not figuratively; he believes Dems and anyone rich or anyone who provides conflicting information to be influenced by Satan or evil Jews or the new world order or Bill Gates or Soros, etc. \nIt’s a lost cause.", ">\n\nText for those who can't see b/c paywall:\n\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nThe podcast Opening Arguments did a break down of why this case is total bullshit if anyone cares to listen. They break it down in easy to understand terms. Epidsode # 668. Episode is even done to appeal to those who may be inclined to believe this case has merit.", ">\n\nGoing out on limb to guess it got thrown out because this...\n\nnearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud\n\n...is not at all how it's supposed to work anyway? That's not the job of Congress, that's for the DoJ and FBI to do.\nReally hope they get some frivolous-lawsuit charges for filing over a question which could have been answered with a 2-minute Google.", ">\n\nThe Q boards are on fire after this. They say the next step is an appeal to a military tribunal lol. And if the military doesn’t step in, it’s militia time. That a time to be alive", ">\n\ni bet they emboldened by brasil too" ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago", ">\n\nThe cherry on the cake is that the Q propagandists (who are incredibly good at what they do, given the market they are targeting), cover their bases by making a dozen predictions each day. Then when one comes true they say ‘SEE! We were right so we’ll be right about the others too!”. Broken clock theory at its finest.\nThey started out with very specific predictions (x event will happen on this exact date) and then kept being more and more vague. For a few months now my buddy has basically stopped passing them on, but at one point he’d say ‘something big is supposed to happen tomorrow. You’ll be sorry for ever doubting.’ I’d ask him what was going to happen and he would just repeat that there’s murmurs of something big doing down. \nApparently that’s all it takes to keep them tuning in for more. ‘Something big could happen tomorrow or maybe next week or the month after!’ Which could literally be anything. The shotgun approach to prognosticating.", ">\n\nFor over a year these people would tell me they were making popcorn in order to watch all the trials they promised me were going to happen within days. I don’t think they talk about making popcorn anymore but they’re still sure it’s going to happen any day now. They’ve sunk so much time and effort into believing this shit and doing their own “research” into it that they can’t now admit it was all a foolish waste of time", ">\n\nOf course not. My childhood friend has been indoctrinated for the past 2.5 years. He’s a seasonal worker who doesn’t love to work. So when he isn’t working (half the year) he’s listening to 4-6 hours per day of this propaganda. He has podcasts and YouTube videos in one ear while he falls asleep, or while he watched sports or plays video games, but mostly while he scrolls his Instagram and Telegram and Signal apps. \nImagine having to face the reality that he’s spent thousands of hours for nothing (being fooled). He can’t do it. At this point he’s need a detox and deprogramming therapy, which to him would be literally joining Satan worshipers. Not figuratively; he believes Dems and anyone rich or anyone who provides conflicting information to be influenced by Satan or evil Jews or the new world order or Bill Gates or Soros, etc. \nIt’s a lost cause.", ">\n\nText for those who can't see b/c paywall:\n\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nThe podcast Opening Arguments did a break down of why this case is total bullshit if anyone cares to listen. They break it down in easy to understand terms. Epidsode # 668. Episode is even done to appeal to those who may be inclined to believe this case has merit.", ">\n\nGoing out on limb to guess it got thrown out because this...\n\nnearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud\n\n...is not at all how it's supposed to work anyway? That's not the job of Congress, that's for the DoJ and FBI to do.\nReally hope they get some frivolous-lawsuit charges for filing over a question which could have been answered with a 2-minute Google.", ">\n\nThe Q boards are on fire after this. They say the next step is an appeal to a military tribunal lol. And if the military doesn’t step in, it’s militia time. That a time to be alive", ">\n\ni bet they emboldened by brasil too", ">\n\nAnd who funded this boondoggle?" ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago", ">\n\nThe cherry on the cake is that the Q propagandists (who are incredibly good at what they do, given the market they are targeting), cover their bases by making a dozen predictions each day. Then when one comes true they say ‘SEE! We were right so we’ll be right about the others too!”. Broken clock theory at its finest.\nThey started out with very specific predictions (x event will happen on this exact date) and then kept being more and more vague. For a few months now my buddy has basically stopped passing them on, but at one point he’d say ‘something big is supposed to happen tomorrow. You’ll be sorry for ever doubting.’ I’d ask him what was going to happen and he would just repeat that there’s murmurs of something big doing down. \nApparently that’s all it takes to keep them tuning in for more. ‘Something big could happen tomorrow or maybe next week or the month after!’ Which could literally be anything. The shotgun approach to prognosticating.", ">\n\nFor over a year these people would tell me they were making popcorn in order to watch all the trials they promised me were going to happen within days. I don’t think they talk about making popcorn anymore but they’re still sure it’s going to happen any day now. They’ve sunk so much time and effort into believing this shit and doing their own “research” into it that they can’t now admit it was all a foolish waste of time", ">\n\nOf course not. My childhood friend has been indoctrinated for the past 2.5 years. He’s a seasonal worker who doesn’t love to work. So when he isn’t working (half the year) he’s listening to 4-6 hours per day of this propaganda. He has podcasts and YouTube videos in one ear while he falls asleep, or while he watched sports or plays video games, but mostly while he scrolls his Instagram and Telegram and Signal apps. \nImagine having to face the reality that he’s spent thousands of hours for nothing (being fooled). He can’t do it. At this point he’s need a detox and deprogramming therapy, which to him would be literally joining Satan worshipers. Not figuratively; he believes Dems and anyone rich or anyone who provides conflicting information to be influenced by Satan or evil Jews or the new world order or Bill Gates or Soros, etc. \nIt’s a lost cause.", ">\n\nText for those who can't see b/c paywall:\n\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nThe podcast Opening Arguments did a break down of why this case is total bullshit if anyone cares to listen. They break it down in easy to understand terms. Epidsode # 668. Episode is even done to appeal to those who may be inclined to believe this case has merit.", ">\n\nGoing out on limb to guess it got thrown out because this...\n\nnearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud\n\n...is not at all how it's supposed to work anyway? That's not the job of Congress, that's for the DoJ and FBI to do.\nReally hope they get some frivolous-lawsuit charges for filing over a question which could have been answered with a 2-minute Google.", ">\n\nThe Q boards are on fire after this. They say the next step is an appeal to a military tribunal lol. And if the military doesn’t step in, it’s militia time. That a time to be alive", ">\n\ni bet they emboldened by brasil too", ">\n\nAnd who funded this boondoggle?", ">\n\nExactly." ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago", ">\n\nThe cherry on the cake is that the Q propagandists (who are incredibly good at what they do, given the market they are targeting), cover their bases by making a dozen predictions each day. Then when one comes true they say ‘SEE! We were right so we’ll be right about the others too!”. Broken clock theory at its finest.\nThey started out with very specific predictions (x event will happen on this exact date) and then kept being more and more vague. For a few months now my buddy has basically stopped passing them on, but at one point he’d say ‘something big is supposed to happen tomorrow. You’ll be sorry for ever doubting.’ I’d ask him what was going to happen and he would just repeat that there’s murmurs of something big doing down. \nApparently that’s all it takes to keep them tuning in for more. ‘Something big could happen tomorrow or maybe next week or the month after!’ Which could literally be anything. The shotgun approach to prognosticating.", ">\n\nFor over a year these people would tell me they were making popcorn in order to watch all the trials they promised me were going to happen within days. I don’t think they talk about making popcorn anymore but they’re still sure it’s going to happen any day now. They’ve sunk so much time and effort into believing this shit and doing their own “research” into it that they can’t now admit it was all a foolish waste of time", ">\n\nOf course not. My childhood friend has been indoctrinated for the past 2.5 years. He’s a seasonal worker who doesn’t love to work. So when he isn’t working (half the year) he’s listening to 4-6 hours per day of this propaganda. He has podcasts and YouTube videos in one ear while he falls asleep, or while he watched sports or plays video games, but mostly while he scrolls his Instagram and Telegram and Signal apps. \nImagine having to face the reality that he’s spent thousands of hours for nothing (being fooled). He can’t do it. At this point he’s need a detox and deprogramming therapy, which to him would be literally joining Satan worshipers. Not figuratively; he believes Dems and anyone rich or anyone who provides conflicting information to be influenced by Satan or evil Jews or the new world order or Bill Gates or Soros, etc. \nIt’s a lost cause.", ">\n\nText for those who can't see b/c paywall:\n\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nThe podcast Opening Arguments did a break down of why this case is total bullshit if anyone cares to listen. They break it down in easy to understand terms. Epidsode # 668. Episode is even done to appeal to those who may be inclined to believe this case has merit.", ">\n\nGoing out on limb to guess it got thrown out because this...\n\nnearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud\n\n...is not at all how it's supposed to work anyway? That's not the job of Congress, that's for the DoJ and FBI to do.\nReally hope they get some frivolous-lawsuit charges for filing over a question which could have been answered with a 2-minute Google.", ">\n\nThe Q boards are on fire after this. They say the next step is an appeal to a military tribunal lol. And if the military doesn’t step in, it’s militia time. That a time to be alive", ">\n\ni bet they emboldened by brasil too", ">\n\nAnd who funded this boondoggle?", ">\n\nExactly.", ">\n\nTheir lawyers need to be disbarred." ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago", ">\n\nThe cherry on the cake is that the Q propagandists (who are incredibly good at what they do, given the market they are targeting), cover their bases by making a dozen predictions each day. Then when one comes true they say ‘SEE! We were right so we’ll be right about the others too!”. Broken clock theory at its finest.\nThey started out with very specific predictions (x event will happen on this exact date) and then kept being more and more vague. For a few months now my buddy has basically stopped passing them on, but at one point he’d say ‘something big is supposed to happen tomorrow. You’ll be sorry for ever doubting.’ I’d ask him what was going to happen and he would just repeat that there’s murmurs of something big doing down. \nApparently that’s all it takes to keep them tuning in for more. ‘Something big could happen tomorrow or maybe next week or the month after!’ Which could literally be anything. The shotgun approach to prognosticating.", ">\n\nFor over a year these people would tell me they were making popcorn in order to watch all the trials they promised me were going to happen within days. I don’t think they talk about making popcorn anymore but they’re still sure it’s going to happen any day now. They’ve sunk so much time and effort into believing this shit and doing their own “research” into it that they can’t now admit it was all a foolish waste of time", ">\n\nOf course not. My childhood friend has been indoctrinated for the past 2.5 years. He’s a seasonal worker who doesn’t love to work. So when he isn’t working (half the year) he’s listening to 4-6 hours per day of this propaganda. He has podcasts and YouTube videos in one ear while he falls asleep, or while he watched sports or plays video games, but mostly while he scrolls his Instagram and Telegram and Signal apps. \nImagine having to face the reality that he’s spent thousands of hours for nothing (being fooled). He can’t do it. At this point he’s need a detox and deprogramming therapy, which to him would be literally joining Satan worshipers. Not figuratively; he believes Dems and anyone rich or anyone who provides conflicting information to be influenced by Satan or evil Jews or the new world order or Bill Gates or Soros, etc. \nIt’s a lost cause.", ">\n\nText for those who can't see b/c paywall:\n\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nThe podcast Opening Arguments did a break down of why this case is total bullshit if anyone cares to listen. They break it down in easy to understand terms. Epidsode # 668. Episode is even done to appeal to those who may be inclined to believe this case has merit.", ">\n\nGoing out on limb to guess it got thrown out because this...\n\nnearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud\n\n...is not at all how it's supposed to work anyway? That's not the job of Congress, that's for the DoJ and FBI to do.\nReally hope they get some frivolous-lawsuit charges for filing over a question which could have been answered with a 2-minute Google.", ">\n\nThe Q boards are on fire after this. They say the next step is an appeal to a military tribunal lol. And if the military doesn’t step in, it’s militia time. That a time to be alive", ">\n\ni bet they emboldened by brasil too", ">\n\nAnd who funded this boondoggle?", ">\n\nExactly.", ">\n\nTheir lawyers need to be disbarred.", ">\n\nIirc, they were pro se - they represented themselves." ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago", ">\n\nThe cherry on the cake is that the Q propagandists (who are incredibly good at what they do, given the market they are targeting), cover their bases by making a dozen predictions each day. Then when one comes true they say ‘SEE! We were right so we’ll be right about the others too!”. Broken clock theory at its finest.\nThey started out with very specific predictions (x event will happen on this exact date) and then kept being more and more vague. For a few months now my buddy has basically stopped passing them on, but at one point he’d say ‘something big is supposed to happen tomorrow. You’ll be sorry for ever doubting.’ I’d ask him what was going to happen and he would just repeat that there’s murmurs of something big doing down. \nApparently that’s all it takes to keep them tuning in for more. ‘Something big could happen tomorrow or maybe next week or the month after!’ Which could literally be anything. The shotgun approach to prognosticating.", ">\n\nFor over a year these people would tell me they were making popcorn in order to watch all the trials they promised me were going to happen within days. I don’t think they talk about making popcorn anymore but they’re still sure it’s going to happen any day now. They’ve sunk so much time and effort into believing this shit and doing their own “research” into it that they can’t now admit it was all a foolish waste of time", ">\n\nOf course not. My childhood friend has been indoctrinated for the past 2.5 years. He’s a seasonal worker who doesn’t love to work. So when he isn’t working (half the year) he’s listening to 4-6 hours per day of this propaganda. He has podcasts and YouTube videos in one ear while he falls asleep, or while he watched sports or plays video games, but mostly while he scrolls his Instagram and Telegram and Signal apps. \nImagine having to face the reality that he’s spent thousands of hours for nothing (being fooled). He can’t do it. At this point he’s need a detox and deprogramming therapy, which to him would be literally joining Satan worshipers. Not figuratively; he believes Dems and anyone rich or anyone who provides conflicting information to be influenced by Satan or evil Jews or the new world order or Bill Gates or Soros, etc. \nIt’s a lost cause.", ">\n\nText for those who can't see b/c paywall:\n\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nThe podcast Opening Arguments did a break down of why this case is total bullshit if anyone cares to listen. They break it down in easy to understand terms. Epidsode # 668. Episode is even done to appeal to those who may be inclined to believe this case has merit.", ">\n\nGoing out on limb to guess it got thrown out because this...\n\nnearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud\n\n...is not at all how it's supposed to work anyway? That's not the job of Congress, that's for the DoJ and FBI to do.\nReally hope they get some frivolous-lawsuit charges for filing over a question which could have been answered with a 2-minute Google.", ">\n\nThe Q boards are on fire after this. They say the next step is an appeal to a military tribunal lol. And if the military doesn’t step in, it’s militia time. That a time to be alive", ">\n\ni bet they emboldened by brasil too", ">\n\nAnd who funded this boondoggle?", ">\n\nExactly.", ">\n\nTheir lawyers need to be disbarred.", ">\n\nIirc, they were pro se - they represented themselves.", ">\n\nThey should be charged with wasting the Courts time when.." ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago", ">\n\nThe cherry on the cake is that the Q propagandists (who are incredibly good at what they do, given the market they are targeting), cover their bases by making a dozen predictions each day. Then when one comes true they say ‘SEE! We were right so we’ll be right about the others too!”. Broken clock theory at its finest.\nThey started out with very specific predictions (x event will happen on this exact date) and then kept being more and more vague. For a few months now my buddy has basically stopped passing them on, but at one point he’d say ‘something big is supposed to happen tomorrow. You’ll be sorry for ever doubting.’ I’d ask him what was going to happen and he would just repeat that there’s murmurs of something big doing down. \nApparently that’s all it takes to keep them tuning in for more. ‘Something big could happen tomorrow or maybe next week or the month after!’ Which could literally be anything. The shotgun approach to prognosticating.", ">\n\nFor over a year these people would tell me they were making popcorn in order to watch all the trials they promised me were going to happen within days. I don’t think they talk about making popcorn anymore but they’re still sure it’s going to happen any day now. They’ve sunk so much time and effort into believing this shit and doing their own “research” into it that they can’t now admit it was all a foolish waste of time", ">\n\nOf course not. My childhood friend has been indoctrinated for the past 2.5 years. He’s a seasonal worker who doesn’t love to work. So when he isn’t working (half the year) he’s listening to 4-6 hours per day of this propaganda. He has podcasts and YouTube videos in one ear while he falls asleep, or while he watched sports or plays video games, but mostly while he scrolls his Instagram and Telegram and Signal apps. \nImagine having to face the reality that he’s spent thousands of hours for nothing (being fooled). He can’t do it. At this point he’s need a detox and deprogramming therapy, which to him would be literally joining Satan worshipers. Not figuratively; he believes Dems and anyone rich or anyone who provides conflicting information to be influenced by Satan or evil Jews or the new world order or Bill Gates or Soros, etc. \nIt’s a lost cause.", ">\n\nText for those who can't see b/c paywall:\n\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nThe podcast Opening Arguments did a break down of why this case is total bullshit if anyone cares to listen. They break it down in easy to understand terms. Epidsode # 668. Episode is even done to appeal to those who may be inclined to believe this case has merit.", ">\n\nGoing out on limb to guess it got thrown out because this...\n\nnearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud\n\n...is not at all how it's supposed to work anyway? That's not the job of Congress, that's for the DoJ and FBI to do.\nReally hope they get some frivolous-lawsuit charges for filing over a question which could have been answered with a 2-minute Google.", ">\n\nThe Q boards are on fire after this. They say the next step is an appeal to a military tribunal lol. And if the military doesn’t step in, it’s militia time. That a time to be alive", ">\n\ni bet they emboldened by brasil too", ">\n\nAnd who funded this boondoggle?", ">\n\nExactly.", ">\n\nTheir lawyers need to be disbarred.", ">\n\nIirc, they were pro se - they represented themselves.", ">\n\nThey should be charged with wasting the Courts time when..", ">\n\nDoes any of those 400 include the ones that were elected on the same ballot Trump lost on or do they conveniently skip over that fact like every other Republican?" ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago", ">\n\nThe cherry on the cake is that the Q propagandists (who are incredibly good at what they do, given the market they are targeting), cover their bases by making a dozen predictions each day. Then when one comes true they say ‘SEE! We were right so we’ll be right about the others too!”. Broken clock theory at its finest.\nThey started out with very specific predictions (x event will happen on this exact date) and then kept being more and more vague. For a few months now my buddy has basically stopped passing them on, but at one point he’d say ‘something big is supposed to happen tomorrow. You’ll be sorry for ever doubting.’ I’d ask him what was going to happen and he would just repeat that there’s murmurs of something big doing down. \nApparently that’s all it takes to keep them tuning in for more. ‘Something big could happen tomorrow or maybe next week or the month after!’ Which could literally be anything. The shotgun approach to prognosticating.", ">\n\nFor over a year these people would tell me they were making popcorn in order to watch all the trials they promised me were going to happen within days. I don’t think they talk about making popcorn anymore but they’re still sure it’s going to happen any day now. They’ve sunk so much time and effort into believing this shit and doing their own “research” into it that they can’t now admit it was all a foolish waste of time", ">\n\nOf course not. My childhood friend has been indoctrinated for the past 2.5 years. He’s a seasonal worker who doesn’t love to work. So when he isn’t working (half the year) he’s listening to 4-6 hours per day of this propaganda. He has podcasts and YouTube videos in one ear while he falls asleep, or while he watched sports or plays video games, but mostly while he scrolls his Instagram and Telegram and Signal apps. \nImagine having to face the reality that he’s spent thousands of hours for nothing (being fooled). He can’t do it. At this point he’s need a detox and deprogramming therapy, which to him would be literally joining Satan worshipers. Not figuratively; he believes Dems and anyone rich or anyone who provides conflicting information to be influenced by Satan or evil Jews or the new world order or Bill Gates or Soros, etc. \nIt’s a lost cause.", ">\n\nText for those who can't see b/c paywall:\n\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nThe podcast Opening Arguments did a break down of why this case is total bullshit if anyone cares to listen. They break it down in easy to understand terms. Epidsode # 668. Episode is even done to appeal to those who may be inclined to believe this case has merit.", ">\n\nGoing out on limb to guess it got thrown out because this...\n\nnearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud\n\n...is not at all how it's supposed to work anyway? That's not the job of Congress, that's for the DoJ and FBI to do.\nReally hope they get some frivolous-lawsuit charges for filing over a question which could have been answered with a 2-minute Google.", ">\n\nThe Q boards are on fire after this. They say the next step is an appeal to a military tribunal lol. And if the military doesn’t step in, it’s militia time. That a time to be alive", ">\n\ni bet they emboldened by brasil too", ">\n\nAnd who funded this boondoggle?", ">\n\nExactly.", ">\n\nTheir lawyers need to be disbarred.", ">\n\nIirc, they were pro se - they represented themselves.", ">\n\nThey should be charged with wasting the Courts time when..", ">\n\nDoes any of those 400 include the ones that were elected on the same ballot Trump lost on or do they conveniently skip over that fact like every other Republican?", ">\n\nOh it most certainly does include Republicans who beat Democrats, but voted for Biden or didn't vote for President at all.\nI've asked the same thing in AskTrumpSupporters but have never gotten an honest reply." ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago", ">\n\nThe cherry on the cake is that the Q propagandists (who are incredibly good at what they do, given the market they are targeting), cover their bases by making a dozen predictions each day. Then when one comes true they say ‘SEE! We were right so we’ll be right about the others too!”. Broken clock theory at its finest.\nThey started out with very specific predictions (x event will happen on this exact date) and then kept being more and more vague. For a few months now my buddy has basically stopped passing them on, but at one point he’d say ‘something big is supposed to happen tomorrow. You’ll be sorry for ever doubting.’ I’d ask him what was going to happen and he would just repeat that there’s murmurs of something big doing down. \nApparently that’s all it takes to keep them tuning in for more. ‘Something big could happen tomorrow or maybe next week or the month after!’ Which could literally be anything. The shotgun approach to prognosticating.", ">\n\nFor over a year these people would tell me they were making popcorn in order to watch all the trials they promised me were going to happen within days. I don’t think they talk about making popcorn anymore but they’re still sure it’s going to happen any day now. They’ve sunk so much time and effort into believing this shit and doing their own “research” into it that they can’t now admit it was all a foolish waste of time", ">\n\nOf course not. My childhood friend has been indoctrinated for the past 2.5 years. He’s a seasonal worker who doesn’t love to work. So when he isn’t working (half the year) he’s listening to 4-6 hours per day of this propaganda. He has podcasts and YouTube videos in one ear while he falls asleep, or while he watched sports or plays video games, but mostly while he scrolls his Instagram and Telegram and Signal apps. \nImagine having to face the reality that he’s spent thousands of hours for nothing (being fooled). He can’t do it. At this point he’s need a detox and deprogramming therapy, which to him would be literally joining Satan worshipers. Not figuratively; he believes Dems and anyone rich or anyone who provides conflicting information to be influenced by Satan or evil Jews or the new world order or Bill Gates or Soros, etc. \nIt’s a lost cause.", ">\n\nText for those who can't see b/c paywall:\n\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nThe podcast Opening Arguments did a break down of why this case is total bullshit if anyone cares to listen. They break it down in easy to understand terms. Epidsode # 668. Episode is even done to appeal to those who may be inclined to believe this case has merit.", ">\n\nGoing out on limb to guess it got thrown out because this...\n\nnearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud\n\n...is not at all how it's supposed to work anyway? That's not the job of Congress, that's for the DoJ and FBI to do.\nReally hope they get some frivolous-lawsuit charges for filing over a question which could have been answered with a 2-minute Google.", ">\n\nThe Q boards are on fire after this. They say the next step is an appeal to a military tribunal lol. And if the military doesn’t step in, it’s militia time. That a time to be alive", ">\n\ni bet they emboldened by brasil too", ">\n\nAnd who funded this boondoggle?", ">\n\nExactly.", ">\n\nTheir lawyers need to be disbarred.", ">\n\nIirc, they were pro se - they represented themselves.", ">\n\nThey should be charged with wasting the Courts time when..", ">\n\nDoes any of those 400 include the ones that were elected on the same ballot Trump lost on or do they conveniently skip over that fact like every other Republican?", ">\n\nOh it most certainly does include Republicans who beat Democrats, but voted for Biden or didn't vote for President at all.\nI've asked the same thing in AskTrumpSupporters but have never gotten an honest reply.", ">\n\nFull text since it's behind a paywall: \n\nSupreme Court rejects Utah brothers’ lawsuit seeking to return Donald Trump to the White House\nBy Bryan Schott  | Jan. 9, 2023, 5:05 p.m.\nThe lawsuit said nearly 400 members of Congress should be removed from office for failing to investigate claims of fraud in the 2020 election\n(Jose Luis Magana | AP) The U.S. Supreme Court is seen early Tuesday, May 3, 2022 in Washington. The Supreme Court, on Monday, Jan. 9, 2023, rejected a lawsuit brought by three Utah brothers seeking to return Donald Trump to the White House.\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement." ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago", ">\n\nThe cherry on the cake is that the Q propagandists (who are incredibly good at what they do, given the market they are targeting), cover their bases by making a dozen predictions each day. Then when one comes true they say ‘SEE! We were right so we’ll be right about the others too!”. Broken clock theory at its finest.\nThey started out with very specific predictions (x event will happen on this exact date) and then kept being more and more vague. For a few months now my buddy has basically stopped passing them on, but at one point he’d say ‘something big is supposed to happen tomorrow. You’ll be sorry for ever doubting.’ I’d ask him what was going to happen and he would just repeat that there’s murmurs of something big doing down. \nApparently that’s all it takes to keep them tuning in for more. ‘Something big could happen tomorrow or maybe next week or the month after!’ Which could literally be anything. The shotgun approach to prognosticating.", ">\n\nFor over a year these people would tell me they were making popcorn in order to watch all the trials they promised me were going to happen within days. I don’t think they talk about making popcorn anymore but they’re still sure it’s going to happen any day now. They’ve sunk so much time and effort into believing this shit and doing their own “research” into it that they can’t now admit it was all a foolish waste of time", ">\n\nOf course not. My childhood friend has been indoctrinated for the past 2.5 years. He’s a seasonal worker who doesn’t love to work. So when he isn’t working (half the year) he’s listening to 4-6 hours per day of this propaganda. He has podcasts and YouTube videos in one ear while he falls asleep, or while he watched sports or plays video games, but mostly while he scrolls his Instagram and Telegram and Signal apps. \nImagine having to face the reality that he’s spent thousands of hours for nothing (being fooled). He can’t do it. At this point he’s need a detox and deprogramming therapy, which to him would be literally joining Satan worshipers. Not figuratively; he believes Dems and anyone rich or anyone who provides conflicting information to be influenced by Satan or evil Jews or the new world order or Bill Gates or Soros, etc. \nIt’s a lost cause.", ">\n\nText for those who can't see b/c paywall:\n\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nThe podcast Opening Arguments did a break down of why this case is total bullshit if anyone cares to listen. They break it down in easy to understand terms. Epidsode # 668. Episode is even done to appeal to those who may be inclined to believe this case has merit.", ">\n\nGoing out on limb to guess it got thrown out because this...\n\nnearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud\n\n...is not at all how it's supposed to work anyway? That's not the job of Congress, that's for the DoJ and FBI to do.\nReally hope they get some frivolous-lawsuit charges for filing over a question which could have been answered with a 2-minute Google.", ">\n\nThe Q boards are on fire after this. They say the next step is an appeal to a military tribunal lol. And if the military doesn’t step in, it’s militia time. That a time to be alive", ">\n\ni bet they emboldened by brasil too", ">\n\nAnd who funded this boondoggle?", ">\n\nExactly.", ">\n\nTheir lawyers need to be disbarred.", ">\n\nIirc, they were pro se - they represented themselves.", ">\n\nThey should be charged with wasting the Courts time when..", ">\n\nDoes any of those 400 include the ones that were elected on the same ballot Trump lost on or do they conveniently skip over that fact like every other Republican?", ">\n\nOh it most certainly does include Republicans who beat Democrats, but voted for Biden or didn't vote for President at all.\nI've asked the same thing in AskTrumpSupporters but have never gotten an honest reply.", ">\n\nFull text since it's behind a paywall: \n\nSupreme Court rejects Utah brothers’ lawsuit seeking to return Donald Trump to the White House\nBy Bryan Schott  | Jan. 9, 2023, 5:05 p.m.\nThe lawsuit said nearly 400 members of Congress should be removed from office for failing to investigate claims of fraud in the 2020 election\n(Jose Luis Magana | AP) The U.S. Supreme Court is seen early Tuesday, May 3, 2022 in Washington. The Supreme Court, on Monday, Jan. 9, 2023, rejected a lawsuit brought by three Utah brothers seeking to return Donald Trump to the White House.\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nHow does such a frivolous lawsuit make it all the way to the Supreme Court?" ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago", ">\n\nThe cherry on the cake is that the Q propagandists (who are incredibly good at what they do, given the market they are targeting), cover their bases by making a dozen predictions each day. Then when one comes true they say ‘SEE! We were right so we’ll be right about the others too!”. Broken clock theory at its finest.\nThey started out with very specific predictions (x event will happen on this exact date) and then kept being more and more vague. For a few months now my buddy has basically stopped passing them on, but at one point he’d say ‘something big is supposed to happen tomorrow. You’ll be sorry for ever doubting.’ I’d ask him what was going to happen and he would just repeat that there’s murmurs of something big doing down. \nApparently that’s all it takes to keep them tuning in for more. ‘Something big could happen tomorrow or maybe next week or the month after!’ Which could literally be anything. The shotgun approach to prognosticating.", ">\n\nFor over a year these people would tell me they were making popcorn in order to watch all the trials they promised me were going to happen within days. I don’t think they talk about making popcorn anymore but they’re still sure it’s going to happen any day now. They’ve sunk so much time and effort into believing this shit and doing their own “research” into it that they can’t now admit it was all a foolish waste of time", ">\n\nOf course not. My childhood friend has been indoctrinated for the past 2.5 years. He’s a seasonal worker who doesn’t love to work. So when he isn’t working (half the year) he’s listening to 4-6 hours per day of this propaganda. He has podcasts and YouTube videos in one ear while he falls asleep, or while he watched sports or plays video games, but mostly while he scrolls his Instagram and Telegram and Signal apps. \nImagine having to face the reality that he’s spent thousands of hours for nothing (being fooled). He can’t do it. At this point he’s need a detox and deprogramming therapy, which to him would be literally joining Satan worshipers. Not figuratively; he believes Dems and anyone rich or anyone who provides conflicting information to be influenced by Satan or evil Jews or the new world order or Bill Gates or Soros, etc. \nIt’s a lost cause.", ">\n\nText for those who can't see b/c paywall:\n\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nThe podcast Opening Arguments did a break down of why this case is total bullshit if anyone cares to listen. They break it down in easy to understand terms. Epidsode # 668. Episode is even done to appeal to those who may be inclined to believe this case has merit.", ">\n\nGoing out on limb to guess it got thrown out because this...\n\nnearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud\n\n...is not at all how it's supposed to work anyway? That's not the job of Congress, that's for the DoJ and FBI to do.\nReally hope they get some frivolous-lawsuit charges for filing over a question which could have been answered with a 2-minute Google.", ">\n\nThe Q boards are on fire after this. They say the next step is an appeal to a military tribunal lol. And if the military doesn’t step in, it’s militia time. That a time to be alive", ">\n\ni bet they emboldened by brasil too", ">\n\nAnd who funded this boondoggle?", ">\n\nExactly.", ">\n\nTheir lawyers need to be disbarred.", ">\n\nIirc, they were pro se - they represented themselves.", ">\n\nThey should be charged with wasting the Courts time when..", ">\n\nDoes any of those 400 include the ones that were elected on the same ballot Trump lost on or do they conveniently skip over that fact like every other Republican?", ">\n\nOh it most certainly does include Republicans who beat Democrats, but voted for Biden or didn't vote for President at all.\nI've asked the same thing in AskTrumpSupporters but have never gotten an honest reply.", ">\n\nFull text since it's behind a paywall: \n\nSupreme Court rejects Utah brothers’ lawsuit seeking to return Donald Trump to the White House\nBy Bryan Schott  | Jan. 9, 2023, 5:05 p.m.\nThe lawsuit said nearly 400 members of Congress should be removed from office for failing to investigate claims of fraud in the 2020 election\n(Jose Luis Magana | AP) The U.S. Supreme Court is seen early Tuesday, May 3, 2022 in Washington. The Supreme Court, on Monday, Jan. 9, 2023, rejected a lawsuit brought by three Utah brothers seeking to return Donald Trump to the White House.\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nHow does such a frivolous lawsuit make it all the way to the Supreme Court?", ">\n\nIt didn't. \nIt was rejected at the trial court level. They appealed that dismissal to the appeals court, which then rejected the appeal. They appealed that to the Supreme and the Supreme rejected it again. It didn't \"make it\" to anywhere." ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago", ">\n\nThe cherry on the cake is that the Q propagandists (who are incredibly good at what they do, given the market they are targeting), cover their bases by making a dozen predictions each day. Then when one comes true they say ‘SEE! We were right so we’ll be right about the others too!”. Broken clock theory at its finest.\nThey started out with very specific predictions (x event will happen on this exact date) and then kept being more and more vague. For a few months now my buddy has basically stopped passing them on, but at one point he’d say ‘something big is supposed to happen tomorrow. You’ll be sorry for ever doubting.’ I’d ask him what was going to happen and he would just repeat that there’s murmurs of something big doing down. \nApparently that’s all it takes to keep them tuning in for more. ‘Something big could happen tomorrow or maybe next week or the month after!’ Which could literally be anything. The shotgun approach to prognosticating.", ">\n\nFor over a year these people would tell me they were making popcorn in order to watch all the trials they promised me were going to happen within days. I don’t think they talk about making popcorn anymore but they’re still sure it’s going to happen any day now. They’ve sunk so much time and effort into believing this shit and doing their own “research” into it that they can’t now admit it was all a foolish waste of time", ">\n\nOf course not. My childhood friend has been indoctrinated for the past 2.5 years. He’s a seasonal worker who doesn’t love to work. So when he isn’t working (half the year) he’s listening to 4-6 hours per day of this propaganda. He has podcasts and YouTube videos in one ear while he falls asleep, or while he watched sports or plays video games, but mostly while he scrolls his Instagram and Telegram and Signal apps. \nImagine having to face the reality that he’s spent thousands of hours for nothing (being fooled). He can’t do it. At this point he’s need a detox and deprogramming therapy, which to him would be literally joining Satan worshipers. Not figuratively; he believes Dems and anyone rich or anyone who provides conflicting information to be influenced by Satan or evil Jews or the new world order or Bill Gates or Soros, etc. \nIt’s a lost cause.", ">\n\nText for those who can't see b/c paywall:\n\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nThe podcast Opening Arguments did a break down of why this case is total bullshit if anyone cares to listen. They break it down in easy to understand terms. Epidsode # 668. Episode is even done to appeal to those who may be inclined to believe this case has merit.", ">\n\nGoing out on limb to guess it got thrown out because this...\n\nnearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud\n\n...is not at all how it's supposed to work anyway? That's not the job of Congress, that's for the DoJ and FBI to do.\nReally hope they get some frivolous-lawsuit charges for filing over a question which could have been answered with a 2-minute Google.", ">\n\nThe Q boards are on fire after this. They say the next step is an appeal to a military tribunal lol. And if the military doesn’t step in, it’s militia time. That a time to be alive", ">\n\ni bet they emboldened by brasil too", ">\n\nAnd who funded this boondoggle?", ">\n\nExactly.", ">\n\nTheir lawyers need to be disbarred.", ">\n\nIirc, they were pro se - they represented themselves.", ">\n\nThey should be charged with wasting the Courts time when..", ">\n\nDoes any of those 400 include the ones that were elected on the same ballot Trump lost on or do they conveniently skip over that fact like every other Republican?", ">\n\nOh it most certainly does include Republicans who beat Democrats, but voted for Biden or didn't vote for President at all.\nI've asked the same thing in AskTrumpSupporters but have never gotten an honest reply.", ">\n\nFull text since it's behind a paywall: \n\nSupreme Court rejects Utah brothers’ lawsuit seeking to return Donald Trump to the White House\nBy Bryan Schott  | Jan. 9, 2023, 5:05 p.m.\nThe lawsuit said nearly 400 members of Congress should be removed from office for failing to investigate claims of fraud in the 2020 election\n(Jose Luis Magana | AP) The U.S. Supreme Court is seen early Tuesday, May 3, 2022 in Washington. The Supreme Court, on Monday, Jan. 9, 2023, rejected a lawsuit brought by three Utah brothers seeking to return Donald Trump to the White House.\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nHow does such a frivolous lawsuit make it all the way to the Supreme Court?", ">\n\nIt didn't. \nIt was rejected at the trial court level. They appealed that dismissal to the appeals court, which then rejected the appeal. They appealed that to the Supreme and the Supreme rejected it again. It didn't \"make it\" to anywhere.", ">\n\nThey appealed that to the Supreme and the Supreme rejected it again.\nSo…it made it all the way to the Supreme Court. It never even should have made it that far through the appeals process is the point…it should have been laughed away on day one." ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago", ">\n\nThe cherry on the cake is that the Q propagandists (who are incredibly good at what they do, given the market they are targeting), cover their bases by making a dozen predictions each day. Then when one comes true they say ‘SEE! We were right so we’ll be right about the others too!”. Broken clock theory at its finest.\nThey started out with very specific predictions (x event will happen on this exact date) and then kept being more and more vague. For a few months now my buddy has basically stopped passing them on, but at one point he’d say ‘something big is supposed to happen tomorrow. You’ll be sorry for ever doubting.’ I’d ask him what was going to happen and he would just repeat that there’s murmurs of something big doing down. \nApparently that’s all it takes to keep them tuning in for more. ‘Something big could happen tomorrow or maybe next week or the month after!’ Which could literally be anything. The shotgun approach to prognosticating.", ">\n\nFor over a year these people would tell me they were making popcorn in order to watch all the trials they promised me were going to happen within days. I don’t think they talk about making popcorn anymore but they’re still sure it’s going to happen any day now. They’ve sunk so much time and effort into believing this shit and doing their own “research” into it that they can’t now admit it was all a foolish waste of time", ">\n\nOf course not. My childhood friend has been indoctrinated for the past 2.5 years. He’s a seasonal worker who doesn’t love to work. So when he isn’t working (half the year) he’s listening to 4-6 hours per day of this propaganda. He has podcasts and YouTube videos in one ear while he falls asleep, or while he watched sports or plays video games, but mostly while he scrolls his Instagram and Telegram and Signal apps. \nImagine having to face the reality that he’s spent thousands of hours for nothing (being fooled). He can’t do it. At this point he’s need a detox and deprogramming therapy, which to him would be literally joining Satan worshipers. Not figuratively; he believes Dems and anyone rich or anyone who provides conflicting information to be influenced by Satan or evil Jews or the new world order or Bill Gates or Soros, etc. \nIt’s a lost cause.", ">\n\nText for those who can't see b/c paywall:\n\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nThe podcast Opening Arguments did a break down of why this case is total bullshit if anyone cares to listen. They break it down in easy to understand terms. Epidsode # 668. Episode is even done to appeal to those who may be inclined to believe this case has merit.", ">\n\nGoing out on limb to guess it got thrown out because this...\n\nnearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud\n\n...is not at all how it's supposed to work anyway? That's not the job of Congress, that's for the DoJ and FBI to do.\nReally hope they get some frivolous-lawsuit charges for filing over a question which could have been answered with a 2-minute Google.", ">\n\nThe Q boards are on fire after this. They say the next step is an appeal to a military tribunal lol. And if the military doesn’t step in, it’s militia time. That a time to be alive", ">\n\ni bet they emboldened by brasil too", ">\n\nAnd who funded this boondoggle?", ">\n\nExactly.", ">\n\nTheir lawyers need to be disbarred.", ">\n\nIirc, they were pro se - they represented themselves.", ">\n\nThey should be charged with wasting the Courts time when..", ">\n\nDoes any of those 400 include the ones that were elected on the same ballot Trump lost on or do they conveniently skip over that fact like every other Republican?", ">\n\nOh it most certainly does include Republicans who beat Democrats, but voted for Biden or didn't vote for President at all.\nI've asked the same thing in AskTrumpSupporters but have never gotten an honest reply.", ">\n\nFull text since it's behind a paywall: \n\nSupreme Court rejects Utah brothers’ lawsuit seeking to return Donald Trump to the White House\nBy Bryan Schott  | Jan. 9, 2023, 5:05 p.m.\nThe lawsuit said nearly 400 members of Congress should be removed from office for failing to investigate claims of fraud in the 2020 election\n(Jose Luis Magana | AP) The U.S. Supreme Court is seen early Tuesday, May 3, 2022 in Washington. The Supreme Court, on Monday, Jan. 9, 2023, rejected a lawsuit brought by three Utah brothers seeking to return Donald Trump to the White House.\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nHow does such a frivolous lawsuit make it all the way to the Supreme Court?", ">\n\nIt didn't. \nIt was rejected at the trial court level. They appealed that dismissal to the appeals court, which then rejected the appeal. They appealed that to the Supreme and the Supreme rejected it again. It didn't \"make it\" to anywhere.", ">\n\nThey appealed that to the Supreme and the Supreme rejected it again.\nSo…it made it all the way to the Supreme Court. It never even should have made it that far through the appeals process is the point…it should have been laughed away on day one.", ">\n\nThe supreme court declined to hear the case, meaning the decision by the appellate court stands.\nTaking away someone's right to an appeal is a pretty bad precedent, I would advise against it." ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago", ">\n\nThe cherry on the cake is that the Q propagandists (who are incredibly good at what they do, given the market they are targeting), cover their bases by making a dozen predictions each day. Then when one comes true they say ‘SEE! We were right so we’ll be right about the others too!”. Broken clock theory at its finest.\nThey started out with very specific predictions (x event will happen on this exact date) and then kept being more and more vague. For a few months now my buddy has basically stopped passing them on, but at one point he’d say ‘something big is supposed to happen tomorrow. You’ll be sorry for ever doubting.’ I’d ask him what was going to happen and he would just repeat that there’s murmurs of something big doing down. \nApparently that’s all it takes to keep them tuning in for more. ‘Something big could happen tomorrow or maybe next week or the month after!’ Which could literally be anything. The shotgun approach to prognosticating.", ">\n\nFor over a year these people would tell me they were making popcorn in order to watch all the trials they promised me were going to happen within days. I don’t think they talk about making popcorn anymore but they’re still sure it’s going to happen any day now. They’ve sunk so much time and effort into believing this shit and doing their own “research” into it that they can’t now admit it was all a foolish waste of time", ">\n\nOf course not. My childhood friend has been indoctrinated for the past 2.5 years. He’s a seasonal worker who doesn’t love to work. So when he isn’t working (half the year) he’s listening to 4-6 hours per day of this propaganda. He has podcasts and YouTube videos in one ear while he falls asleep, or while he watched sports or plays video games, but mostly while he scrolls his Instagram and Telegram and Signal apps. \nImagine having to face the reality that he’s spent thousands of hours for nothing (being fooled). He can’t do it. At this point he’s need a detox and deprogramming therapy, which to him would be literally joining Satan worshipers. Not figuratively; he believes Dems and anyone rich or anyone who provides conflicting information to be influenced by Satan or evil Jews or the new world order or Bill Gates or Soros, etc. \nIt’s a lost cause.", ">\n\nText for those who can't see b/c paywall:\n\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nThe podcast Opening Arguments did a break down of why this case is total bullshit if anyone cares to listen. They break it down in easy to understand terms. Epidsode # 668. Episode is even done to appeal to those who may be inclined to believe this case has merit.", ">\n\nGoing out on limb to guess it got thrown out because this...\n\nnearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud\n\n...is not at all how it's supposed to work anyway? That's not the job of Congress, that's for the DoJ and FBI to do.\nReally hope they get some frivolous-lawsuit charges for filing over a question which could have been answered with a 2-minute Google.", ">\n\nThe Q boards are on fire after this. They say the next step is an appeal to a military tribunal lol. And if the military doesn’t step in, it’s militia time. That a time to be alive", ">\n\ni bet they emboldened by brasil too", ">\n\nAnd who funded this boondoggle?", ">\n\nExactly.", ">\n\nTheir lawyers need to be disbarred.", ">\n\nIirc, they were pro se - they represented themselves.", ">\n\nThey should be charged with wasting the Courts time when..", ">\n\nDoes any of those 400 include the ones that were elected on the same ballot Trump lost on or do they conveniently skip over that fact like every other Republican?", ">\n\nOh it most certainly does include Republicans who beat Democrats, but voted for Biden or didn't vote for President at all.\nI've asked the same thing in AskTrumpSupporters but have never gotten an honest reply.", ">\n\nFull text since it's behind a paywall: \n\nSupreme Court rejects Utah brothers’ lawsuit seeking to return Donald Trump to the White House\nBy Bryan Schott  | Jan. 9, 2023, 5:05 p.m.\nThe lawsuit said nearly 400 members of Congress should be removed from office for failing to investigate claims of fraud in the 2020 election\n(Jose Luis Magana | AP) The U.S. Supreme Court is seen early Tuesday, May 3, 2022 in Washington. The Supreme Court, on Monday, Jan. 9, 2023, rejected a lawsuit brought by three Utah brothers seeking to return Donald Trump to the White House.\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nHow does such a frivolous lawsuit make it all the way to the Supreme Court?", ">\n\nIt didn't. \nIt was rejected at the trial court level. They appealed that dismissal to the appeals court, which then rejected the appeal. They appealed that to the Supreme and the Supreme rejected it again. It didn't \"make it\" to anywhere.", ">\n\nThey appealed that to the Supreme and the Supreme rejected it again.\nSo…it made it all the way to the Supreme Court. It never even should have made it that far through the appeals process is the point…it should have been laughed away on day one.", ">\n\nThe supreme court declined to hear the case, meaning the decision by the appellate court stands.\nTaking away someone's right to an appeal is a pretty bad precedent, I would advise against it.", ">\n\nTaking away someone’s right to an appeal is a pretty bad precedent, I would advise against it.\nLetting every single batshit crazy lawsuit make it all the way up the appeals process to the Supreme Court is an even worse precedent. I would definitely advise against it." ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago", ">\n\nThe cherry on the cake is that the Q propagandists (who are incredibly good at what they do, given the market they are targeting), cover their bases by making a dozen predictions each day. Then when one comes true they say ‘SEE! We were right so we’ll be right about the others too!”. Broken clock theory at its finest.\nThey started out with very specific predictions (x event will happen on this exact date) and then kept being more and more vague. For a few months now my buddy has basically stopped passing them on, but at one point he’d say ‘something big is supposed to happen tomorrow. You’ll be sorry for ever doubting.’ I’d ask him what was going to happen and he would just repeat that there’s murmurs of something big doing down. \nApparently that’s all it takes to keep them tuning in for more. ‘Something big could happen tomorrow or maybe next week or the month after!’ Which could literally be anything. The shotgun approach to prognosticating.", ">\n\nFor over a year these people would tell me they were making popcorn in order to watch all the trials they promised me were going to happen within days. I don’t think they talk about making popcorn anymore but they’re still sure it’s going to happen any day now. They’ve sunk so much time and effort into believing this shit and doing their own “research” into it that they can’t now admit it was all a foolish waste of time", ">\n\nOf course not. My childhood friend has been indoctrinated for the past 2.5 years. He’s a seasonal worker who doesn’t love to work. So when he isn’t working (half the year) he’s listening to 4-6 hours per day of this propaganda. He has podcasts and YouTube videos in one ear while he falls asleep, or while he watched sports or plays video games, but mostly while he scrolls his Instagram and Telegram and Signal apps. \nImagine having to face the reality that he’s spent thousands of hours for nothing (being fooled). He can’t do it. At this point he’s need a detox and deprogramming therapy, which to him would be literally joining Satan worshipers. Not figuratively; he believes Dems and anyone rich or anyone who provides conflicting information to be influenced by Satan or evil Jews or the new world order or Bill Gates or Soros, etc. \nIt’s a lost cause.", ">\n\nText for those who can't see b/c paywall:\n\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nThe podcast Opening Arguments did a break down of why this case is total bullshit if anyone cares to listen. They break it down in easy to understand terms. Epidsode # 668. Episode is even done to appeal to those who may be inclined to believe this case has merit.", ">\n\nGoing out on limb to guess it got thrown out because this...\n\nnearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud\n\n...is not at all how it's supposed to work anyway? That's not the job of Congress, that's for the DoJ and FBI to do.\nReally hope they get some frivolous-lawsuit charges for filing over a question which could have been answered with a 2-minute Google.", ">\n\nThe Q boards are on fire after this. They say the next step is an appeal to a military tribunal lol. And if the military doesn’t step in, it’s militia time. That a time to be alive", ">\n\ni bet they emboldened by brasil too", ">\n\nAnd who funded this boondoggle?", ">\n\nExactly.", ">\n\nTheir lawyers need to be disbarred.", ">\n\nIirc, they were pro se - they represented themselves.", ">\n\nThey should be charged with wasting the Courts time when..", ">\n\nDoes any of those 400 include the ones that were elected on the same ballot Trump lost on or do they conveniently skip over that fact like every other Republican?", ">\n\nOh it most certainly does include Republicans who beat Democrats, but voted for Biden or didn't vote for President at all.\nI've asked the same thing in AskTrumpSupporters but have never gotten an honest reply.", ">\n\nFull text since it's behind a paywall: \n\nSupreme Court rejects Utah brothers’ lawsuit seeking to return Donald Trump to the White House\nBy Bryan Schott  | Jan. 9, 2023, 5:05 p.m.\nThe lawsuit said nearly 400 members of Congress should be removed from office for failing to investigate claims of fraud in the 2020 election\n(Jose Luis Magana | AP) The U.S. Supreme Court is seen early Tuesday, May 3, 2022 in Washington. The Supreme Court, on Monday, Jan. 9, 2023, rejected a lawsuit brought by three Utah brothers seeking to return Donald Trump to the White House.\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nHow does such a frivolous lawsuit make it all the way to the Supreme Court?", ">\n\nIt didn't. \nIt was rejected at the trial court level. They appealed that dismissal to the appeals court, which then rejected the appeal. They appealed that to the Supreme and the Supreme rejected it again. It didn't \"make it\" to anywhere.", ">\n\nThey appealed that to the Supreme and the Supreme rejected it again.\nSo…it made it all the way to the Supreme Court. It never even should have made it that far through the appeals process is the point…it should have been laughed away on day one.", ">\n\nThe supreme court declined to hear the case, meaning the decision by the appellate court stands.\nTaking away someone's right to an appeal is a pretty bad precedent, I would advise against it.", ">\n\nTaking away someone’s right to an appeal is a pretty bad precedent, I would advise against it.\nLetting every single batshit crazy lawsuit make it all the way up the appeals process to the Supreme Court is an even worse precedent. I would definitely advise against it.", ">\n\nWhat we should do is have people who judge whether a lawsuit is worth pursuing or not, and then if people think they made a bad call, someone can take the judgment of that person to a panel of 3 more people with more experience, who can judge whether the first person's judgments were right or wrong, and either allow the case to continue or keep it shut down.\nWe could even have a panel of 9 people, who have super good judgment to make sure that even those middle people who are making judgment calls do the right thing. We can call them the supreme judgment people.\nI like this system. I think I will call it the \"super awesome people figuring out laws and rules system.\" Or maybe the \"justice system* I don't know it's still a work in progress." ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago", ">\n\nThe cherry on the cake is that the Q propagandists (who are incredibly good at what they do, given the market they are targeting), cover their bases by making a dozen predictions each day. Then when one comes true they say ‘SEE! We were right so we’ll be right about the others too!”. Broken clock theory at its finest.\nThey started out with very specific predictions (x event will happen on this exact date) and then kept being more and more vague. For a few months now my buddy has basically stopped passing them on, but at one point he’d say ‘something big is supposed to happen tomorrow. You’ll be sorry for ever doubting.’ I’d ask him what was going to happen and he would just repeat that there’s murmurs of something big doing down. \nApparently that’s all it takes to keep them tuning in for more. ‘Something big could happen tomorrow or maybe next week or the month after!’ Which could literally be anything. The shotgun approach to prognosticating.", ">\n\nFor over a year these people would tell me they were making popcorn in order to watch all the trials they promised me were going to happen within days. I don’t think they talk about making popcorn anymore but they’re still sure it’s going to happen any day now. They’ve sunk so much time and effort into believing this shit and doing their own “research” into it that they can’t now admit it was all a foolish waste of time", ">\n\nOf course not. My childhood friend has been indoctrinated for the past 2.5 years. He’s a seasonal worker who doesn’t love to work. So when he isn’t working (half the year) he’s listening to 4-6 hours per day of this propaganda. He has podcasts and YouTube videos in one ear while he falls asleep, or while he watched sports or plays video games, but mostly while he scrolls his Instagram and Telegram and Signal apps. \nImagine having to face the reality that he’s spent thousands of hours for nothing (being fooled). He can’t do it. At this point he’s need a detox and deprogramming therapy, which to him would be literally joining Satan worshipers. Not figuratively; he believes Dems and anyone rich or anyone who provides conflicting information to be influenced by Satan or evil Jews or the new world order or Bill Gates or Soros, etc. \nIt’s a lost cause.", ">\n\nText for those who can't see b/c paywall:\n\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nThe podcast Opening Arguments did a break down of why this case is total bullshit if anyone cares to listen. They break it down in easy to understand terms. Epidsode # 668. Episode is even done to appeal to those who may be inclined to believe this case has merit.", ">\n\nGoing out on limb to guess it got thrown out because this...\n\nnearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud\n\n...is not at all how it's supposed to work anyway? That's not the job of Congress, that's for the DoJ and FBI to do.\nReally hope they get some frivolous-lawsuit charges for filing over a question which could have been answered with a 2-minute Google.", ">\n\nThe Q boards are on fire after this. They say the next step is an appeal to a military tribunal lol. And if the military doesn’t step in, it’s militia time. That a time to be alive", ">\n\ni bet they emboldened by brasil too", ">\n\nAnd who funded this boondoggle?", ">\n\nExactly.", ">\n\nTheir lawyers need to be disbarred.", ">\n\nIirc, they were pro se - they represented themselves.", ">\n\nThey should be charged with wasting the Courts time when..", ">\n\nDoes any of those 400 include the ones that were elected on the same ballot Trump lost on or do they conveniently skip over that fact like every other Republican?", ">\n\nOh it most certainly does include Republicans who beat Democrats, but voted for Biden or didn't vote for President at all.\nI've asked the same thing in AskTrumpSupporters but have never gotten an honest reply.", ">\n\nFull text since it's behind a paywall: \n\nSupreme Court rejects Utah brothers’ lawsuit seeking to return Donald Trump to the White House\nBy Bryan Schott  | Jan. 9, 2023, 5:05 p.m.\nThe lawsuit said nearly 400 members of Congress should be removed from office for failing to investigate claims of fraud in the 2020 election\n(Jose Luis Magana | AP) The U.S. Supreme Court is seen early Tuesday, May 3, 2022 in Washington. The Supreme Court, on Monday, Jan. 9, 2023, rejected a lawsuit brought by three Utah brothers seeking to return Donald Trump to the White House.\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nHow does such a frivolous lawsuit make it all the way to the Supreme Court?", ">\n\nIt didn't. \nIt was rejected at the trial court level. They appealed that dismissal to the appeals court, which then rejected the appeal. They appealed that to the Supreme and the Supreme rejected it again. It didn't \"make it\" to anywhere.", ">\n\nThey appealed that to the Supreme and the Supreme rejected it again.\nSo…it made it all the way to the Supreme Court. It never even should have made it that far through the appeals process is the point…it should have been laughed away on day one.", ">\n\nThe supreme court declined to hear the case, meaning the decision by the appellate court stands.\nTaking away someone's right to an appeal is a pretty bad precedent, I would advise against it.", ">\n\nTaking away someone’s right to an appeal is a pretty bad precedent, I would advise against it.\nLetting every single batshit crazy lawsuit make it all the way up the appeals process to the Supreme Court is an even worse precedent. I would definitely advise against it.", ">\n\nWhat we should do is have people who judge whether a lawsuit is worth pursuing or not, and then if people think they made a bad call, someone can take the judgment of that person to a panel of 3 more people with more experience, who can judge whether the first person's judgments were right or wrong, and either allow the case to continue or keep it shut down.\nWe could even have a panel of 9 people, who have super good judgment to make sure that even those middle people who are making judgment calls do the right thing. We can call them the supreme judgment people.\nI like this system. I think I will call it the \"super awesome people figuring out laws and rules system.\" Or maybe the \"justice system* I don't know it's still a work in progress.", ">\n\nThat’s great. Glad you think the judges have plenty of time to consider every single bat shit crazy course case in the entire country.\nAnd apparently the bat-shit crazier the case, the more important it is that it makes it all the way up to the Supreme Court.\nSo according to you, since my local judge refused to throw out my parking ticket, I should just appeal it up to the Supreme Court. Since they’ve got plenty of time on their hands, and they’re the ultimate court in this “super awesome” system of yours." ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago", ">\n\nThe cherry on the cake is that the Q propagandists (who are incredibly good at what they do, given the market they are targeting), cover their bases by making a dozen predictions each day. Then when one comes true they say ‘SEE! We were right so we’ll be right about the others too!”. Broken clock theory at its finest.\nThey started out with very specific predictions (x event will happen on this exact date) and then kept being more and more vague. For a few months now my buddy has basically stopped passing them on, but at one point he’d say ‘something big is supposed to happen tomorrow. You’ll be sorry for ever doubting.’ I’d ask him what was going to happen and he would just repeat that there’s murmurs of something big doing down. \nApparently that’s all it takes to keep them tuning in for more. ‘Something big could happen tomorrow or maybe next week or the month after!’ Which could literally be anything. The shotgun approach to prognosticating.", ">\n\nFor over a year these people would tell me they were making popcorn in order to watch all the trials they promised me were going to happen within days. I don’t think they talk about making popcorn anymore but they’re still sure it’s going to happen any day now. They’ve sunk so much time and effort into believing this shit and doing their own “research” into it that they can’t now admit it was all a foolish waste of time", ">\n\nOf course not. My childhood friend has been indoctrinated for the past 2.5 years. He’s a seasonal worker who doesn’t love to work. So when he isn’t working (half the year) he’s listening to 4-6 hours per day of this propaganda. He has podcasts and YouTube videos in one ear while he falls asleep, or while he watched sports or plays video games, but mostly while he scrolls his Instagram and Telegram and Signal apps. \nImagine having to face the reality that he’s spent thousands of hours for nothing (being fooled). He can’t do it. At this point he’s need a detox and deprogramming therapy, which to him would be literally joining Satan worshipers. Not figuratively; he believes Dems and anyone rich or anyone who provides conflicting information to be influenced by Satan or evil Jews or the new world order or Bill Gates or Soros, etc. \nIt’s a lost cause.", ">\n\nText for those who can't see b/c paywall:\n\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nThe podcast Opening Arguments did a break down of why this case is total bullshit if anyone cares to listen. They break it down in easy to understand terms. Epidsode # 668. Episode is even done to appeal to those who may be inclined to believe this case has merit.", ">\n\nGoing out on limb to guess it got thrown out because this...\n\nnearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud\n\n...is not at all how it's supposed to work anyway? That's not the job of Congress, that's for the DoJ and FBI to do.\nReally hope they get some frivolous-lawsuit charges for filing over a question which could have been answered with a 2-minute Google.", ">\n\nThe Q boards are on fire after this. They say the next step is an appeal to a military tribunal lol. And if the military doesn’t step in, it’s militia time. That a time to be alive", ">\n\ni bet they emboldened by brasil too", ">\n\nAnd who funded this boondoggle?", ">\n\nExactly.", ">\n\nTheir lawyers need to be disbarred.", ">\n\nIirc, they were pro se - they represented themselves.", ">\n\nThey should be charged with wasting the Courts time when..", ">\n\nDoes any of those 400 include the ones that were elected on the same ballot Trump lost on or do they conveniently skip over that fact like every other Republican?", ">\n\nOh it most certainly does include Republicans who beat Democrats, but voted for Biden or didn't vote for President at all.\nI've asked the same thing in AskTrumpSupporters but have never gotten an honest reply.", ">\n\nFull text since it's behind a paywall: \n\nSupreme Court rejects Utah brothers’ lawsuit seeking to return Donald Trump to the White House\nBy Bryan Schott  | Jan. 9, 2023, 5:05 p.m.\nThe lawsuit said nearly 400 members of Congress should be removed from office for failing to investigate claims of fraud in the 2020 election\n(Jose Luis Magana | AP) The U.S. Supreme Court is seen early Tuesday, May 3, 2022 in Washington. The Supreme Court, on Monday, Jan. 9, 2023, rejected a lawsuit brought by three Utah brothers seeking to return Donald Trump to the White House.\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nHow does such a frivolous lawsuit make it all the way to the Supreme Court?", ">\n\nIt didn't. \nIt was rejected at the trial court level. They appealed that dismissal to the appeals court, which then rejected the appeal. They appealed that to the Supreme and the Supreme rejected it again. It didn't \"make it\" to anywhere.", ">\n\nThey appealed that to the Supreme and the Supreme rejected it again.\nSo…it made it all the way to the Supreme Court. It never even should have made it that far through the appeals process is the point…it should have been laughed away on day one.", ">\n\nThe supreme court declined to hear the case, meaning the decision by the appellate court stands.\nTaking away someone's right to an appeal is a pretty bad precedent, I would advise against it.", ">\n\nTaking away someone’s right to an appeal is a pretty bad precedent, I would advise against it.\nLetting every single batshit crazy lawsuit make it all the way up the appeals process to the Supreme Court is an even worse precedent. I would definitely advise against it.", ">\n\nWhat we should do is have people who judge whether a lawsuit is worth pursuing or not, and then if people think they made a bad call, someone can take the judgment of that person to a panel of 3 more people with more experience, who can judge whether the first person's judgments were right or wrong, and either allow the case to continue or keep it shut down.\nWe could even have a panel of 9 people, who have super good judgment to make sure that even those middle people who are making judgment calls do the right thing. We can call them the supreme judgment people.\nI like this system. I think I will call it the \"super awesome people figuring out laws and rules system.\" Or maybe the \"justice system* I don't know it's still a work in progress.", ">\n\nThat’s great. Glad you think the judges have plenty of time to consider every single bat shit crazy course case in the entire country.\nAnd apparently the bat-shit crazier the case, the more important it is that it makes it all the way up to the Supreme Court.\nSo according to you, since my local judge refused to throw out my parking ticket, I should just appeal it up to the Supreme Court. Since they’ve got plenty of time on their hands, and they’re the ultimate court in this “super awesome” system of yours.", ">\n\nYou realize that people have to pay for an appeal, right? And that money goes towards the judges' pay? If you want to appeal a traffic ticket be my guest, it's your money. But there is a reason why the courts function the way they do and it is to provide a system to address issues with the law. I like being able to appeal a trial court judge's decision to include/exclude a witness or to improperly hear/dismiss a case, because it provides clear resolution and avoids fascism by a single panel/person at one level of the court system.\nThe Supreme Court gets about 7000 applications for \"cert\" each year, and they have whole staffs of people dedicated to handling them. This case would have been a 5-10 minute thing as well, as there was no federal question or circuit split at issue, so it really didn't eat into their available time. This is literally why we have judges and justices, I don't mind having them do their jobs." ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago", ">\n\nThe cherry on the cake is that the Q propagandists (who are incredibly good at what they do, given the market they are targeting), cover their bases by making a dozen predictions each day. Then when one comes true they say ‘SEE! We were right so we’ll be right about the others too!”. Broken clock theory at its finest.\nThey started out with very specific predictions (x event will happen on this exact date) and then kept being more and more vague. For a few months now my buddy has basically stopped passing them on, but at one point he’d say ‘something big is supposed to happen tomorrow. You’ll be sorry for ever doubting.’ I’d ask him what was going to happen and he would just repeat that there’s murmurs of something big doing down. \nApparently that’s all it takes to keep them tuning in for more. ‘Something big could happen tomorrow or maybe next week or the month after!’ Which could literally be anything. The shotgun approach to prognosticating.", ">\n\nFor over a year these people would tell me they were making popcorn in order to watch all the trials they promised me were going to happen within days. I don’t think they talk about making popcorn anymore but they’re still sure it’s going to happen any day now. They’ve sunk so much time and effort into believing this shit and doing their own “research” into it that they can’t now admit it was all a foolish waste of time", ">\n\nOf course not. My childhood friend has been indoctrinated for the past 2.5 years. He’s a seasonal worker who doesn’t love to work. So when he isn’t working (half the year) he’s listening to 4-6 hours per day of this propaganda. He has podcasts and YouTube videos in one ear while he falls asleep, or while he watched sports or plays video games, but mostly while he scrolls his Instagram and Telegram and Signal apps. \nImagine having to face the reality that he’s spent thousands of hours for nothing (being fooled). He can’t do it. At this point he’s need a detox and deprogramming therapy, which to him would be literally joining Satan worshipers. Not figuratively; he believes Dems and anyone rich or anyone who provides conflicting information to be influenced by Satan or evil Jews or the new world order or Bill Gates or Soros, etc. \nIt’s a lost cause.", ">\n\nText for those who can't see b/c paywall:\n\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nThe podcast Opening Arguments did a break down of why this case is total bullshit if anyone cares to listen. They break it down in easy to understand terms. Epidsode # 668. Episode is even done to appeal to those who may be inclined to believe this case has merit.", ">\n\nGoing out on limb to guess it got thrown out because this...\n\nnearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud\n\n...is not at all how it's supposed to work anyway? That's not the job of Congress, that's for the DoJ and FBI to do.\nReally hope they get some frivolous-lawsuit charges for filing over a question which could have been answered with a 2-minute Google.", ">\n\nThe Q boards are on fire after this. They say the next step is an appeal to a military tribunal lol. And if the military doesn’t step in, it’s militia time. That a time to be alive", ">\n\ni bet they emboldened by brasil too", ">\n\nAnd who funded this boondoggle?", ">\n\nExactly.", ">\n\nTheir lawyers need to be disbarred.", ">\n\nIirc, they were pro se - they represented themselves.", ">\n\nThey should be charged with wasting the Courts time when..", ">\n\nDoes any of those 400 include the ones that were elected on the same ballot Trump lost on or do they conveniently skip over that fact like every other Republican?", ">\n\nOh it most certainly does include Republicans who beat Democrats, but voted for Biden or didn't vote for President at all.\nI've asked the same thing in AskTrumpSupporters but have never gotten an honest reply.", ">\n\nFull text since it's behind a paywall: \n\nSupreme Court rejects Utah brothers’ lawsuit seeking to return Donald Trump to the White House\nBy Bryan Schott  | Jan. 9, 2023, 5:05 p.m.\nThe lawsuit said nearly 400 members of Congress should be removed from office for failing to investigate claims of fraud in the 2020 election\n(Jose Luis Magana | AP) The U.S. Supreme Court is seen early Tuesday, May 3, 2022 in Washington. The Supreme Court, on Monday, Jan. 9, 2023, rejected a lawsuit brought by three Utah brothers seeking to return Donald Trump to the White House.\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nHow does such a frivolous lawsuit make it all the way to the Supreme Court?", ">\n\nIt didn't. \nIt was rejected at the trial court level. They appealed that dismissal to the appeals court, which then rejected the appeal. They appealed that to the Supreme and the Supreme rejected it again. It didn't \"make it\" to anywhere.", ">\n\nThey appealed that to the Supreme and the Supreme rejected it again.\nSo…it made it all the way to the Supreme Court. It never even should have made it that far through the appeals process is the point…it should have been laughed away on day one.", ">\n\nThe supreme court declined to hear the case, meaning the decision by the appellate court stands.\nTaking away someone's right to an appeal is a pretty bad precedent, I would advise against it.", ">\n\nTaking away someone’s right to an appeal is a pretty bad precedent, I would advise against it.\nLetting every single batshit crazy lawsuit make it all the way up the appeals process to the Supreme Court is an even worse precedent. I would definitely advise against it.", ">\n\nWhat we should do is have people who judge whether a lawsuit is worth pursuing or not, and then if people think they made a bad call, someone can take the judgment of that person to a panel of 3 more people with more experience, who can judge whether the first person's judgments were right or wrong, and either allow the case to continue or keep it shut down.\nWe could even have a panel of 9 people, who have super good judgment to make sure that even those middle people who are making judgment calls do the right thing. We can call them the supreme judgment people.\nI like this system. I think I will call it the \"super awesome people figuring out laws and rules system.\" Or maybe the \"justice system* I don't know it's still a work in progress.", ">\n\nThat’s great. Glad you think the judges have plenty of time to consider every single bat shit crazy course case in the entire country.\nAnd apparently the bat-shit crazier the case, the more important it is that it makes it all the way up to the Supreme Court.\nSo according to you, since my local judge refused to throw out my parking ticket, I should just appeal it up to the Supreme Court. Since they’ve got plenty of time on their hands, and they’re the ultimate court in this “super awesome” system of yours.", ">\n\nYou realize that people have to pay for an appeal, right? And that money goes towards the judges' pay? If you want to appeal a traffic ticket be my guest, it's your money. But there is a reason why the courts function the way they do and it is to provide a system to address issues with the law. I like being able to appeal a trial court judge's decision to include/exclude a witness or to improperly hear/dismiss a case, because it provides clear resolution and avoids fascism by a single panel/person at one level of the court system.\nThe Supreme Court gets about 7000 applications for \"cert\" each year, and they have whole staffs of people dedicated to handling them. This case would have been a 5-10 minute thing as well, as there was no federal question or circuit split at issue, so it really didn't eat into their available time. This is literally why we have judges and justices, I don't mind having them do their jobs.", ">\n\nBut there is a reason why the courts function the way they do\nKinda getting the sense you don’t really understand how courts function the way they do. Unless you’re implying $$$$ is what makes the courts go round." ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago", ">\n\nThe cherry on the cake is that the Q propagandists (who are incredibly good at what they do, given the market they are targeting), cover their bases by making a dozen predictions each day. Then when one comes true they say ‘SEE! We were right so we’ll be right about the others too!”. Broken clock theory at its finest.\nThey started out with very specific predictions (x event will happen on this exact date) and then kept being more and more vague. For a few months now my buddy has basically stopped passing them on, but at one point he’d say ‘something big is supposed to happen tomorrow. You’ll be sorry for ever doubting.’ I’d ask him what was going to happen and he would just repeat that there’s murmurs of something big doing down. \nApparently that’s all it takes to keep them tuning in for more. ‘Something big could happen tomorrow or maybe next week or the month after!’ Which could literally be anything. The shotgun approach to prognosticating.", ">\n\nFor over a year these people would tell me they were making popcorn in order to watch all the trials they promised me were going to happen within days. I don’t think they talk about making popcorn anymore but they’re still sure it’s going to happen any day now. They’ve sunk so much time and effort into believing this shit and doing their own “research” into it that they can’t now admit it was all a foolish waste of time", ">\n\nOf course not. My childhood friend has been indoctrinated for the past 2.5 years. He’s a seasonal worker who doesn’t love to work. So when he isn’t working (half the year) he’s listening to 4-6 hours per day of this propaganda. He has podcasts and YouTube videos in one ear while he falls asleep, or while he watched sports or plays video games, but mostly while he scrolls his Instagram and Telegram and Signal apps. \nImagine having to face the reality that he’s spent thousands of hours for nothing (being fooled). He can’t do it. At this point he’s need a detox and deprogramming therapy, which to him would be literally joining Satan worshipers. Not figuratively; he believes Dems and anyone rich or anyone who provides conflicting information to be influenced by Satan or evil Jews or the new world order or Bill Gates or Soros, etc. \nIt’s a lost cause.", ">\n\nText for those who can't see b/c paywall:\n\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nThe podcast Opening Arguments did a break down of why this case is total bullshit if anyone cares to listen. They break it down in easy to understand terms. Epidsode # 668. Episode is even done to appeal to those who may be inclined to believe this case has merit.", ">\n\nGoing out on limb to guess it got thrown out because this...\n\nnearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud\n\n...is not at all how it's supposed to work anyway? That's not the job of Congress, that's for the DoJ and FBI to do.\nReally hope they get some frivolous-lawsuit charges for filing over a question which could have been answered with a 2-minute Google.", ">\n\nThe Q boards are on fire after this. They say the next step is an appeal to a military tribunal lol. And if the military doesn’t step in, it’s militia time. That a time to be alive", ">\n\ni bet they emboldened by brasil too", ">\n\nAnd who funded this boondoggle?", ">\n\nExactly.", ">\n\nTheir lawyers need to be disbarred.", ">\n\nIirc, they were pro se - they represented themselves.", ">\n\nThey should be charged with wasting the Courts time when..", ">\n\nDoes any of those 400 include the ones that were elected on the same ballot Trump lost on or do they conveniently skip over that fact like every other Republican?", ">\n\nOh it most certainly does include Republicans who beat Democrats, but voted for Biden or didn't vote for President at all.\nI've asked the same thing in AskTrumpSupporters but have never gotten an honest reply.", ">\n\nFull text since it's behind a paywall: \n\nSupreme Court rejects Utah brothers’ lawsuit seeking to return Donald Trump to the White House\nBy Bryan Schott  | Jan. 9, 2023, 5:05 p.m.\nThe lawsuit said nearly 400 members of Congress should be removed from office for failing to investigate claims of fraud in the 2020 election\n(Jose Luis Magana | AP) The U.S. Supreme Court is seen early Tuesday, May 3, 2022 in Washington. The Supreme Court, on Monday, Jan. 9, 2023, rejected a lawsuit brought by three Utah brothers seeking to return Donald Trump to the White House.\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nHow does such a frivolous lawsuit make it all the way to the Supreme Court?", ">\n\nIt didn't. \nIt was rejected at the trial court level. They appealed that dismissal to the appeals court, which then rejected the appeal. They appealed that to the Supreme and the Supreme rejected it again. It didn't \"make it\" to anywhere.", ">\n\nThey appealed that to the Supreme and the Supreme rejected it again.\nSo…it made it all the way to the Supreme Court. It never even should have made it that far through the appeals process is the point…it should have been laughed away on day one.", ">\n\nThe supreme court declined to hear the case, meaning the decision by the appellate court stands.\nTaking away someone's right to an appeal is a pretty bad precedent, I would advise against it.", ">\n\nTaking away someone’s right to an appeal is a pretty bad precedent, I would advise against it.\nLetting every single batshit crazy lawsuit make it all the way up the appeals process to the Supreme Court is an even worse precedent. I would definitely advise against it.", ">\n\nWhat we should do is have people who judge whether a lawsuit is worth pursuing or not, and then if people think they made a bad call, someone can take the judgment of that person to a panel of 3 more people with more experience, who can judge whether the first person's judgments were right or wrong, and either allow the case to continue or keep it shut down.\nWe could even have a panel of 9 people, who have super good judgment to make sure that even those middle people who are making judgment calls do the right thing. We can call them the supreme judgment people.\nI like this system. I think I will call it the \"super awesome people figuring out laws and rules system.\" Or maybe the \"justice system* I don't know it's still a work in progress.", ">\n\nThat’s great. Glad you think the judges have plenty of time to consider every single bat shit crazy course case in the entire country.\nAnd apparently the bat-shit crazier the case, the more important it is that it makes it all the way up to the Supreme Court.\nSo according to you, since my local judge refused to throw out my parking ticket, I should just appeal it up to the Supreme Court. Since they’ve got plenty of time on their hands, and they’re the ultimate court in this “super awesome” system of yours.", ">\n\nYou realize that people have to pay for an appeal, right? And that money goes towards the judges' pay? If you want to appeal a traffic ticket be my guest, it's your money. But there is a reason why the courts function the way they do and it is to provide a system to address issues with the law. I like being able to appeal a trial court judge's decision to include/exclude a witness or to improperly hear/dismiss a case, because it provides clear resolution and avoids fascism by a single panel/person at one level of the court system.\nThe Supreme Court gets about 7000 applications for \"cert\" each year, and they have whole staffs of people dedicated to handling them. This case would have been a 5-10 minute thing as well, as there was no federal question or circuit split at issue, so it really didn't eat into their available time. This is literally why we have judges and justices, I don't mind having them do their jobs.", ">\n\nBut there is a reason why the courts function the way they do\nKinda getting the sense you don’t really understand how courts function the way they do. Unless you’re implying $$$$ is what makes the courts go round.", ">\n\nWell, we pay the judges...so yes?" ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago", ">\n\nThe cherry on the cake is that the Q propagandists (who are incredibly good at what they do, given the market they are targeting), cover their bases by making a dozen predictions each day. Then when one comes true they say ‘SEE! We were right so we’ll be right about the others too!”. Broken clock theory at its finest.\nThey started out with very specific predictions (x event will happen on this exact date) and then kept being more and more vague. For a few months now my buddy has basically stopped passing them on, but at one point he’d say ‘something big is supposed to happen tomorrow. You’ll be sorry for ever doubting.’ I’d ask him what was going to happen and he would just repeat that there’s murmurs of something big doing down. \nApparently that’s all it takes to keep them tuning in for more. ‘Something big could happen tomorrow or maybe next week or the month after!’ Which could literally be anything. The shotgun approach to prognosticating.", ">\n\nFor over a year these people would tell me they were making popcorn in order to watch all the trials they promised me were going to happen within days. I don’t think they talk about making popcorn anymore but they’re still sure it’s going to happen any day now. They’ve sunk so much time and effort into believing this shit and doing their own “research” into it that they can’t now admit it was all a foolish waste of time", ">\n\nOf course not. My childhood friend has been indoctrinated for the past 2.5 years. He’s a seasonal worker who doesn’t love to work. So when he isn’t working (half the year) he’s listening to 4-6 hours per day of this propaganda. He has podcasts and YouTube videos in one ear while he falls asleep, or while he watched sports or plays video games, but mostly while he scrolls his Instagram and Telegram and Signal apps. \nImagine having to face the reality that he’s spent thousands of hours for nothing (being fooled). He can’t do it. At this point he’s need a detox and deprogramming therapy, which to him would be literally joining Satan worshipers. Not figuratively; he believes Dems and anyone rich or anyone who provides conflicting information to be influenced by Satan or evil Jews or the new world order or Bill Gates or Soros, etc. \nIt’s a lost cause.", ">\n\nText for those who can't see b/c paywall:\n\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nThe podcast Opening Arguments did a break down of why this case is total bullshit if anyone cares to listen. They break it down in easy to understand terms. Epidsode # 668. Episode is even done to appeal to those who may be inclined to believe this case has merit.", ">\n\nGoing out on limb to guess it got thrown out because this...\n\nnearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud\n\n...is not at all how it's supposed to work anyway? That's not the job of Congress, that's for the DoJ and FBI to do.\nReally hope they get some frivolous-lawsuit charges for filing over a question which could have been answered with a 2-minute Google.", ">\n\nThe Q boards are on fire after this. They say the next step is an appeal to a military tribunal lol. And if the military doesn’t step in, it’s militia time. That a time to be alive", ">\n\ni bet they emboldened by brasil too", ">\n\nAnd who funded this boondoggle?", ">\n\nExactly.", ">\n\nTheir lawyers need to be disbarred.", ">\n\nIirc, they were pro se - they represented themselves.", ">\n\nThey should be charged with wasting the Courts time when..", ">\n\nDoes any of those 400 include the ones that were elected on the same ballot Trump lost on or do they conveniently skip over that fact like every other Republican?", ">\n\nOh it most certainly does include Republicans who beat Democrats, but voted for Biden or didn't vote for President at all.\nI've asked the same thing in AskTrumpSupporters but have never gotten an honest reply.", ">\n\nFull text since it's behind a paywall: \n\nSupreme Court rejects Utah brothers’ lawsuit seeking to return Donald Trump to the White House\nBy Bryan Schott  | Jan. 9, 2023, 5:05 p.m.\nThe lawsuit said nearly 400 members of Congress should be removed from office for failing to investigate claims of fraud in the 2020 election\n(Jose Luis Magana | AP) The U.S. Supreme Court is seen early Tuesday, May 3, 2022 in Washington. The Supreme Court, on Monday, Jan. 9, 2023, rejected a lawsuit brought by three Utah brothers seeking to return Donald Trump to the White House.\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nHow does such a frivolous lawsuit make it all the way to the Supreme Court?", ">\n\nIt didn't. \nIt was rejected at the trial court level. They appealed that dismissal to the appeals court, which then rejected the appeal. They appealed that to the Supreme and the Supreme rejected it again. It didn't \"make it\" to anywhere.", ">\n\nThey appealed that to the Supreme and the Supreme rejected it again.\nSo…it made it all the way to the Supreme Court. It never even should have made it that far through the appeals process is the point…it should have been laughed away on day one.", ">\n\nThe supreme court declined to hear the case, meaning the decision by the appellate court stands.\nTaking away someone's right to an appeal is a pretty bad precedent, I would advise against it.", ">\n\nTaking away someone’s right to an appeal is a pretty bad precedent, I would advise against it.\nLetting every single batshit crazy lawsuit make it all the way up the appeals process to the Supreme Court is an even worse precedent. I would definitely advise against it.", ">\n\nWhat we should do is have people who judge whether a lawsuit is worth pursuing or not, and then if people think they made a bad call, someone can take the judgment of that person to a panel of 3 more people with more experience, who can judge whether the first person's judgments were right or wrong, and either allow the case to continue or keep it shut down.\nWe could even have a panel of 9 people, who have super good judgment to make sure that even those middle people who are making judgment calls do the right thing. We can call them the supreme judgment people.\nI like this system. I think I will call it the \"super awesome people figuring out laws and rules system.\" Or maybe the \"justice system* I don't know it's still a work in progress.", ">\n\nThat’s great. Glad you think the judges have plenty of time to consider every single bat shit crazy course case in the entire country.\nAnd apparently the bat-shit crazier the case, the more important it is that it makes it all the way up to the Supreme Court.\nSo according to you, since my local judge refused to throw out my parking ticket, I should just appeal it up to the Supreme Court. Since they’ve got plenty of time on their hands, and they’re the ultimate court in this “super awesome” system of yours.", ">\n\nYou realize that people have to pay for an appeal, right? And that money goes towards the judges' pay? If you want to appeal a traffic ticket be my guest, it's your money. But there is a reason why the courts function the way they do and it is to provide a system to address issues with the law. I like being able to appeal a trial court judge's decision to include/exclude a witness or to improperly hear/dismiss a case, because it provides clear resolution and avoids fascism by a single panel/person at one level of the court system.\nThe Supreme Court gets about 7000 applications for \"cert\" each year, and they have whole staffs of people dedicated to handling them. This case would have been a 5-10 minute thing as well, as there was no federal question or circuit split at issue, so it really didn't eat into their available time. This is literally why we have judges and justices, I don't mind having them do their jobs.", ">\n\nBut there is a reason why the courts function the way they do\nKinda getting the sense you don’t really understand how courts function the way they do. Unless you’re implying $$$$ is what makes the courts go round.", ">\n\nWell, we pay the judges...so yes?", ">\n\nBut its not a cult. /s" ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago", ">\n\nThe cherry on the cake is that the Q propagandists (who are incredibly good at what they do, given the market they are targeting), cover their bases by making a dozen predictions each day. Then when one comes true they say ‘SEE! We were right so we’ll be right about the others too!”. Broken clock theory at its finest.\nThey started out with very specific predictions (x event will happen on this exact date) and then kept being more and more vague. For a few months now my buddy has basically stopped passing them on, but at one point he’d say ‘something big is supposed to happen tomorrow. You’ll be sorry for ever doubting.’ I’d ask him what was going to happen and he would just repeat that there’s murmurs of something big doing down. \nApparently that’s all it takes to keep them tuning in for more. ‘Something big could happen tomorrow or maybe next week or the month after!’ Which could literally be anything. The shotgun approach to prognosticating.", ">\n\nFor over a year these people would tell me they were making popcorn in order to watch all the trials they promised me were going to happen within days. I don’t think they talk about making popcorn anymore but they’re still sure it’s going to happen any day now. They’ve sunk so much time and effort into believing this shit and doing their own “research” into it that they can’t now admit it was all a foolish waste of time", ">\n\nOf course not. My childhood friend has been indoctrinated for the past 2.5 years. He’s a seasonal worker who doesn’t love to work. So when he isn’t working (half the year) he’s listening to 4-6 hours per day of this propaganda. He has podcasts and YouTube videos in one ear while he falls asleep, or while he watched sports or plays video games, but mostly while he scrolls his Instagram and Telegram and Signal apps. \nImagine having to face the reality that he’s spent thousands of hours for nothing (being fooled). He can’t do it. At this point he’s need a detox and deprogramming therapy, which to him would be literally joining Satan worshipers. Not figuratively; he believes Dems and anyone rich or anyone who provides conflicting information to be influenced by Satan or evil Jews or the new world order or Bill Gates or Soros, etc. \nIt’s a lost cause.", ">\n\nText for those who can't see b/c paywall:\n\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nThe podcast Opening Arguments did a break down of why this case is total bullshit if anyone cares to listen. They break it down in easy to understand terms. Epidsode # 668. Episode is even done to appeal to those who may be inclined to believe this case has merit.", ">\n\nGoing out on limb to guess it got thrown out because this...\n\nnearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud\n\n...is not at all how it's supposed to work anyway? That's not the job of Congress, that's for the DoJ and FBI to do.\nReally hope they get some frivolous-lawsuit charges for filing over a question which could have been answered with a 2-minute Google.", ">\n\nThe Q boards are on fire after this. They say the next step is an appeal to a military tribunal lol. And if the military doesn’t step in, it’s militia time. That a time to be alive", ">\n\ni bet they emboldened by brasil too", ">\n\nAnd who funded this boondoggle?", ">\n\nExactly.", ">\n\nTheir lawyers need to be disbarred.", ">\n\nIirc, they were pro se - they represented themselves.", ">\n\nThey should be charged with wasting the Courts time when..", ">\n\nDoes any of those 400 include the ones that were elected on the same ballot Trump lost on or do they conveniently skip over that fact like every other Republican?", ">\n\nOh it most certainly does include Republicans who beat Democrats, but voted for Biden or didn't vote for President at all.\nI've asked the same thing in AskTrumpSupporters but have never gotten an honest reply.", ">\n\nFull text since it's behind a paywall: \n\nSupreme Court rejects Utah brothers’ lawsuit seeking to return Donald Trump to the White House\nBy Bryan Schott  | Jan. 9, 2023, 5:05 p.m.\nThe lawsuit said nearly 400 members of Congress should be removed from office for failing to investigate claims of fraud in the 2020 election\n(Jose Luis Magana | AP) The U.S. Supreme Court is seen early Tuesday, May 3, 2022 in Washington. The Supreme Court, on Monday, Jan. 9, 2023, rejected a lawsuit brought by three Utah brothers seeking to return Donald Trump to the White House.\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nHow does such a frivolous lawsuit make it all the way to the Supreme Court?", ">\n\nIt didn't. \nIt was rejected at the trial court level. They appealed that dismissal to the appeals court, which then rejected the appeal. They appealed that to the Supreme and the Supreme rejected it again. It didn't \"make it\" to anywhere.", ">\n\nThey appealed that to the Supreme and the Supreme rejected it again.\nSo…it made it all the way to the Supreme Court. It never even should have made it that far through the appeals process is the point…it should have been laughed away on day one.", ">\n\nThe supreme court declined to hear the case, meaning the decision by the appellate court stands.\nTaking away someone's right to an appeal is a pretty bad precedent, I would advise against it.", ">\n\nTaking away someone’s right to an appeal is a pretty bad precedent, I would advise against it.\nLetting every single batshit crazy lawsuit make it all the way up the appeals process to the Supreme Court is an even worse precedent. I would definitely advise against it.", ">\n\nWhat we should do is have people who judge whether a lawsuit is worth pursuing or not, and then if people think they made a bad call, someone can take the judgment of that person to a panel of 3 more people with more experience, who can judge whether the first person's judgments were right or wrong, and either allow the case to continue or keep it shut down.\nWe could even have a panel of 9 people, who have super good judgment to make sure that even those middle people who are making judgment calls do the right thing. We can call them the supreme judgment people.\nI like this system. I think I will call it the \"super awesome people figuring out laws and rules system.\" Or maybe the \"justice system* I don't know it's still a work in progress.", ">\n\nThat’s great. Glad you think the judges have plenty of time to consider every single bat shit crazy course case in the entire country.\nAnd apparently the bat-shit crazier the case, the more important it is that it makes it all the way up to the Supreme Court.\nSo according to you, since my local judge refused to throw out my parking ticket, I should just appeal it up to the Supreme Court. Since they’ve got plenty of time on their hands, and they’re the ultimate court in this “super awesome” system of yours.", ">\n\nYou realize that people have to pay for an appeal, right? And that money goes towards the judges' pay? If you want to appeal a traffic ticket be my guest, it's your money. But there is a reason why the courts function the way they do and it is to provide a system to address issues with the law. I like being able to appeal a trial court judge's decision to include/exclude a witness or to improperly hear/dismiss a case, because it provides clear resolution and avoids fascism by a single panel/person at one level of the court system.\nThe Supreme Court gets about 7000 applications for \"cert\" each year, and they have whole staffs of people dedicated to handling them. This case would have been a 5-10 minute thing as well, as there was no federal question or circuit split at issue, so it really didn't eat into their available time. This is literally why we have judges and justices, I don't mind having them do their jobs.", ">\n\nBut there is a reason why the courts function the way they do\nKinda getting the sense you don’t really understand how courts function the way they do. Unless you’re implying $$$$ is what makes the courts go round.", ">\n\nWell, we pay the judges...so yes?", ">\n\nBut its not a cult. /s", ">\n\nI listened to a podcast about this. It’s an absolutely batshit lawsuit, filled with zero facts or evidence.. of course it was thrown out.\nBut how batshit was it? Aside from demanding 45 be placed back in office immediately they were seeking damages of 2.9 TRILLION DOLLARS, and I shit you not not explicitly said they want it “tax free”" ]

[ "I'm starting to think Donald Trump will never win the 2020 election", ">\n\nIm still in utter shock that JFK Jr didn’t return from dead and help king clown back into office. How could that be wrong? It seems so rational.", ">\n\n“It’s gonna happen, these things take time. You just wait!” - my QAnon friend, who has discovered infinite patience he never knew he had before. Though, it’s not really patience I suppose; it’s more like the parent jingling keys in front of the baby to make it forget why it’s crying. “Hey, why didn’t that 100% certain prediction come true?” “Don’t worry, it will, but have you heard about this thing you need to be angry about?!? It’s shocking!! Get angry!!!”", ">\n\nI know. They said nothing could stop the storm. But remember these are the same people who have been waiting over 2000 years for the return of the dude who was supposed to come back 2000 years ago", ">\n\nThe cherry on the cake is that the Q propagandists (who are incredibly good at what they do, given the market they are targeting), cover their bases by making a dozen predictions each day. Then when one comes true they say ‘SEE! We were right so we’ll be right about the others too!”. Broken clock theory at its finest.\nThey started out with very specific predictions (x event will happen on this exact date) and then kept being more and more vague. For a few months now my buddy has basically stopped passing them on, but at one point he’d say ‘something big is supposed to happen tomorrow. You’ll be sorry for ever doubting.’ I’d ask him what was going to happen and he would just repeat that there’s murmurs of something big doing down. \nApparently that’s all it takes to keep them tuning in for more. ‘Something big could happen tomorrow or maybe next week or the month after!’ Which could literally be anything. The shotgun approach to prognosticating.", ">\n\nFor over a year these people would tell me they were making popcorn in order to watch all the trials they promised me were going to happen within days. I don’t think they talk about making popcorn anymore but they’re still sure it’s going to happen any day now. They’ve sunk so much time and effort into believing this shit and doing their own “research” into it that they can’t now admit it was all a foolish waste of time", ">\n\nOf course not. My childhood friend has been indoctrinated for the past 2.5 years. He’s a seasonal worker who doesn’t love to work. So when he isn’t working (half the year) he’s listening to 4-6 hours per day of this propaganda. He has podcasts and YouTube videos in one ear while he falls asleep, or while he watched sports or plays video games, but mostly while he scrolls his Instagram and Telegram and Signal apps. \nImagine having to face the reality that he’s spent thousands of hours for nothing (being fooled). He can’t do it. At this point he’s need a detox and deprogramming therapy, which to him would be literally joining Satan worshipers. Not figuratively; he believes Dems and anyone rich or anyone who provides conflicting information to be influenced by Satan or evil Jews or the new world order or Bill Gates or Soros, etc. \nIt’s a lost cause.", ">\n\nText for those who can't see b/c paywall:\n\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nThe podcast Opening Arguments did a break down of why this case is total bullshit if anyone cares to listen. They break it down in easy to understand terms. Epidsode # 668. Episode is even done to appeal to those who may be inclined to believe this case has merit.", ">\n\nGoing out on limb to guess it got thrown out because this...\n\nnearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud\n\n...is not at all how it's supposed to work anyway? That's not the job of Congress, that's for the DoJ and FBI to do.\nReally hope they get some frivolous-lawsuit charges for filing over a question which could have been answered with a 2-minute Google.", ">\n\nThe Q boards are on fire after this. They say the next step is an appeal to a military tribunal lol. And if the military doesn’t step in, it’s militia time. That a time to be alive", ">\n\ni bet they emboldened by brasil too", ">\n\nAnd who funded this boondoggle?", ">\n\nExactly.", ">\n\nTheir lawyers need to be disbarred.", ">\n\nIirc, they were pro se - they represented themselves.", ">\n\nThey should be charged with wasting the Courts time when..", ">\n\nDoes any of those 400 include the ones that were elected on the same ballot Trump lost on or do they conveniently skip over that fact like every other Republican?", ">\n\nOh it most certainly does include Republicans who beat Democrats, but voted for Biden or didn't vote for President at all.\nI've asked the same thing in AskTrumpSupporters but have never gotten an honest reply.", ">\n\nFull text since it's behind a paywall: \n\nSupreme Court rejects Utah brothers’ lawsuit seeking to return Donald Trump to the White House\nBy Bryan Schott  | Jan. 9, 2023, 5:05 p.m.\nThe lawsuit said nearly 400 members of Congress should be removed from office for failing to investigate claims of fraud in the 2020 election\n(Jose Luis Magana | AP) The U.S. Supreme Court is seen early Tuesday, May 3, 2022 in Washington. The Supreme Court, on Monday, Jan. 9, 2023, rejected a lawsuit brought by three Utah brothers seeking to return Donald Trump to the White House.\nThree Utah brothers seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election and return Donald Trump to the White House will not have their longshot lawsuit heard by the U.S. Supreme Court.\nThe litigation, Brunson v. Adams et. al., claimed nearly 400 members of Congress violated their oaths of office by not investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election and voting to certify Joe Biden’s win.\nRaland Brunson, the lead plaintiff in the suit, along with brothers Loy and Deron, asked for those members of Congress, along with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, to be removed from office and barred from ever running again. Similarly, former Vice President Mike Pence would also be banned from holding another elective office.\nIn an order published Monday, the Supreme Court said it would not hear the Utahn’s case.\nOn Friday, a small group of Bronson’s supporters met outside the Supreme Court in hopes of encouraging justices to hear their arguments.\nThe suit also ignored the order of presidential succession laid out in the Constitution by asking that Donald Trump be made eligible to return to the White House.\nAccording to Deron Brunson, lawmakers’ refusal to look into election fraud claims was akin to treason and an “act of war” against the United States. No credible evidence has been presented of widespread fraud during the 2020 presidential election or that it impacted the outcome.\nThe suit also asked for more than $2.9 billion in damages that the court make that payout tax-free.\nThe Brunsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the ruling.\nOn social media, Raland Brunson set the stage for Monday’s denial. “Don’t think for a second that my brothers and I are not prepared for denial. We’ve got plenty of chess pieces still at play and we still have our queen,” he wrote on his Facebook page.\nFollowing Monday’s decision, Raland expressed disappointment on Facebook but said they planned to ask the court to reconsider.\nThe case was initially dismissed by a federal judge for lack of standing. The brothers appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals but were denied, leading to Monday’s denial by the Supreme Court.\nSeveral media figures on the far right were hyping the case in the days leading up to Monday’s decision, including some prominent influencers in the QAnon conspiracy theory movement.", ">\n\nHow does such a frivolous lawsuit make it all the way to the Supreme Court?", ">\n\nIt didn't. \nIt was rejected at the trial court level. They appealed that dismissal to the appeals court, which then rejected the appeal. They appealed that to the Supreme and the Supreme rejected it again. It didn't \"make it\" to anywhere.", ">\n\nThey appealed that to the Supreme and the Supreme rejected it again.\nSo…it made it all the way to the Supreme Court. It never even should have made it that far through the appeals process is the point…it should have been laughed away on day one.", ">\n\nThe supreme court declined to hear the case, meaning the decision by the appellate court stands.\nTaking away someone's right to an appeal is a pretty bad precedent, I would advise against it.", ">\n\nTaking away someone’s right to an appeal is a pretty bad precedent, I would advise against it.\nLetting every single batshit crazy lawsuit make it all the way up the appeals process to the Supreme Court is an even worse precedent. I would definitely advise against it.", ">\n\nWhat we should do is have people who judge whether a lawsuit is worth pursuing or not, and then if people think they made a bad call, someone can take the judgment of that person to a panel of 3 more people with more experience, who can judge whether the first person's judgments were right or wrong, and either allow the case to continue or keep it shut down.\nWe could even have a panel of 9 people, who have super good judgment to make sure that even those middle people who are making judgment calls do the right thing. We can call them the supreme judgment people.\nI like this system. I think I will call it the \"super awesome people figuring out laws and rules system.\" Or maybe the \"justice system* I don't know it's still a work in progress.", ">\n\nThat’s great. Glad you think the judges have plenty of time to consider every single bat shit crazy course case in the entire country.\nAnd apparently the bat-shit crazier the case, the more important it is that it makes it all the way up to the Supreme Court.\nSo according to you, since my local judge refused to throw out my parking ticket, I should just appeal it up to the Supreme Court. Since they’ve got plenty of time on their hands, and they’re the ultimate court in this “super awesome” system of yours.", ">\n\nYou realize that people have to pay for an appeal, right? And that money goes towards the judges' pay? If you want to appeal a traffic ticket be my guest, it's your money. But there is a reason why the courts function the way they do and it is to provide a system to address issues with the law. I like being able to appeal a trial court judge's decision to include/exclude a witness or to improperly hear/dismiss a case, because it provides clear resolution and avoids fascism by a single panel/person at one level of the court system.\nThe Supreme Court gets about 7000 applications for \"cert\" each year, and they have whole staffs of people dedicated to handling them. This case would have been a 5-10 minute thing as well, as there was no federal question or circuit split at issue, so it really didn't eat into their available time. This is literally why we have judges and justices, I don't mind having them do their jobs.", ">\n\nBut there is a reason why the courts function the way they do\nKinda getting the sense you don’t really understand how courts function the way they do. Unless you’re implying $$$$ is what makes the courts go round.", ">\n\nWell, we pay the judges...so yes?", ">\n\nBut its not a cult. /s", ">\n\nI listened to a podcast about this. It’s an absolutely batshit lawsuit, filled with zero facts or evidence.. of course it was thrown out.\nBut how batshit was it? Aside from demanding 45 be placed back in office immediately they were seeking damages of 2.9 TRILLION DOLLARS, and I shit you not not explicitly said they want it “tax free”", ">\n\nJustice Thomas was obviously not the one to get this petition…" ]