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innovation-hacking2

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shitposting_dataset3

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[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first)." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s" ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children." ]

[ "Didn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind.", ">\n\nDidn't this just fucking happen in utah?", ">\n\nyes, in my town. Probably the only thing anyone will ever associate with this town now.", ">\n\nIf you plan on killing yourself and your family, always start with yourself.", ">\n\nThey don't plan on killing themselves. They plan comitting the act of ultimate ownership and control of their children and wives.\nThe suicide is just the exit after that fact.", ">\n\nIt’s the dead weight of reality setting in.\nThe fucked up ones are the ones who keep on as normal, pretending their loved ones are missing, and that they’re aiding in the search.", ">\n\nYep. Chris Watts comes to mind.", ">\n\nAlso Scott Peterson", ">\n\nThese cases are always so sad. His kids were 18, 16, and 10, old enough to realize that their father had mental problems. He was committed last year? Why or why didn't they remove his gun?", ">\n\nBecause that would be against the 2nd Amendment and that is the only thing that matters in 'Murkia.", ">\n\n\nAccording to records, High Point police received calls to the home as far back as 2014. Police said that two of these were domestic calls, with fights that did not lead to any arrests. In January 2022, they received a medical call and then a request for an involuntary commitment.\n\nIf he was actually committed, you are wrong, it is prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4)) for someone who has been involuntarily committed to possess a firearm. Someone in the chain dropped the ball.", ">\n\nMy coworker was involuntarily committed, but he still has his guns.", ">\n\nThat’s the state failing to do its job, a solid personal example. Every day he possesses those firearms and ammunition he is committing a felony, unless he went through the legal process to get those rights restored.", ">\n\nYeah, he hasn't. Not sure how that's gonna shake out for him. I think someone's holding onto them for now, but he could demand them back at any time.", ">\n\nIf that person gives them back they would also be committing a felony by furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person", ">\n\nGood to know, I'll pass that on", ">\n\nI used to live in the area in Michigan. I taught the kids. It’s still something I am trying to process right now. I feel so lost on what I can do to prevent this from happening again.", ">\n\nGood lord, another family annihilator? This is what the 3rd or 4th one the last week.", ">\n\nthey happen all. the. time. Most don't even make the news.\nGun owners need to realize their guns will mostly kill them or their loved ones. Guns don't protect people.", ">\n\n/r/dgu guns do protect people. If they didn’t, police wouldn’t be issued them.\nThat said, most intentional gun deaths in the USA each year are suicides, something magazine capacities or so-called assault weapon bans will not fix.\n(gunviolencearchive.org)", ">\n\nDGUs are incredibly rare. There are only 300-400 justifiable gun homicides per year", ">\n\nCriminal gun use is far more common than self-defense gun use. \nAll these DGUs claims are bogus, you can't have survey ranges of 60,000 to 2.5 million and think your research has any sound methodology. It's a joke. It was a ridiculously small study by Gary Kleck (pro-gun zealot) and highly flawed even Kleck came out and said his work was trash. Subsequent study of those survey results showed that most of the reported DGUs were in fact illegal gun use, like brandishing.\nEdit:\n\nAccording to research commissioned by the Obama administration, defensive gun uses are easily in excess of 100,000 per year. \n\nSorry but no research was commissioned. A survey of existing research was collected. Kleck's claims were later removed because they were debunked.", ">\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\nI prefer to useeither neutral or \"the other side's\" research to make my points, rather than controversial pro-gun researchers.\nThe original claim was \"DGUs are incredibly rare.\" This is simply false, according to any research on the subject.", ">\n\n\nI'm intentionally not referring to Kleck's work, but rather NCVS survey itself, and a study published by David Hemenway, which I can't seem to find at the moment.\n\nYou literally linked to Kleck's work.\n\nDefensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). \n\nBecause they are so rare, there is no definition for a DGU and there is no consensus on how to measure them. Sorry but DGUs are exceptionally rare.", ">\n\nLike you said, it is a survey of existing research. If you exclude any of Kleck's work, the other research surveyed supports the notion that defensive gun use is not \"incredibly rare.\"", ">\n\nIn the US there are around 10 million arrests for crimes each year. That doesn't count criminals who weren't arrested either. So your claim of 100k DGUs represent less than 1 percent. \n1 percent is rare.", ">\n\n\nThe shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\n\"He was suffering from some mental illness,\" Welsh said. \"I can't speak to the reason under the involuntary commitment. But we do believe it was taken out by the family.\"\n\nWHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GUNS IN THIS HOUSE?", ">\n\nI haven't been committed for years and even I don't keep a gun in the house.", ">\n\nMy husband and I both have chronic anxiety and depression and we don’t keep guns. Way too easy to find that permanent solution to a temporary feeling.", ">\n\nIs it me, or am I really hearing more of these lately?", ">\n\nI feel like there was one of like 8 people just last week.", ">\n\nThat was the Utah one. Since it was so many I’m wondering if their FLDS or something.", ">\n\nThey were mainline LDS (edited-not much less culty, tbh).\nFLDS isn’t really in much of Utah, plus one look at the clothes they wore in pictures you can tell they are definitely not FLDS.", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had gun access to kill his family. Fuck the authorities for not securing his means of murder.", ">\n\nI'd be more angry at gun rights activists, tbh.", ">\n\nIt's the authority's job. Blame is 100% theirs to bear.", ">\n\nIf the authorities aren't allowed to legally take someone's guns away, how can they be at fault?", ">\n\nWhere does it say they're not allowed to take them?", ">\n\nThe default policy is authorities cannot take away guns. The question should be \"where does it say they ARE allowed to take them\". This what the 2A zealots have been pushing for for years.", ">\n\nI'd love to see where this so called default policy comes from. Especially considering federal law says people who have been involuntarily committed can't legally own guns. Which means that yes, cops can take them.", ">\n\ndefault policy I was referring to was the Second Amendment.", ">\n\nSo you're cool with brushing responsibility off the authorities just to stick it to the \"second amendment zealots\"?", ">\n\nInvoluntary commitment and still had his guns. Yeah let's make some more laws that won't be enforced. The police chief's concern is the effect the crime scene will have on his officers too. Well perhaps if those officers ha done their respective jobs prior to the shooting perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about the shock of seeing a family's annihilation.\n*words", ">\n\nMen.... Just walk away. No need to kill your families.", ">\n\nBut then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that.", ">\n\nOh my god, get railed.\nI’m not condoning what the man did, but none of us have any idea what happened. He might’ve found out his kids weren’t his. Maybe she’d been cheating on him or molesting one of the kids. Maybe he was and she found out. Point is, we don’t know, and this ‘taking sides based solely on genitalia’ needs to stop. \nHe might’ve just been a very unwell human being, but people seldom snap and kill their family for no fucking reason.", ">\n\nSo if someone cheats on you, you are justified in murdering them and their children?", ">\n\nI literally just said I’m not condoning what he did. I also posited that he could be entirely out of his gourd or a child molester. I swear none of you psychopaths can read.\nThe person said ‘But then, the wife would find someone worth her time and respect. Can't have that,’ based solely on her gender. For all we know, she was just as messed up as her husband was. That’s literally my entire point. \nNobody should ever kill anybody. Can’t believe I have to explain that.", ">\n\nDude nobody need to “both sides” a fucking murderer. Nothing his family could have done excuses or explains his actions. We can all read just fine. The problem here is you.", ">\n\nClearly you can’t, because you’re trying to argue things I’ve already stated we agree on. You’re all clearly incapable of discussing this with any degree of nuance or impartiality. \nWhat the guy did was clearly wrong. Whether it was inexcusable or not remains to be seen.", ">\n\nSo you think it is excusable to murder your entire family if your wife cheats on you?", ">\n\nCheating? No.\nKnowingly tricking someone into thinking the kids are theirs, having him sign the birth certificates, wasting nearly two decades of their life, tens of thousands of dollars, and leaving them legally and financially responsible for kids who aren’t theirs with no recourse whatsoever?\nNo, but I understand how that could traumatize someone enough to make them think this is their easiest way out. If you can’t, you may need to focus less on gender studies and more on critical thinking. A little reading comprehension wouldn’t hurt, either. \nAnd back to my original point, if there were a way for parents to recuse themselves without financial or legal penalty while they address their mental health, it would eliminate this course of action for a lot of people. I think it would also provide an alternative to the ‘deadbeat parent’ path, as well.\nBut yeah, it’s just easier to say ‘men are the problem’ than to actually fix the systemic issues that cause this type of behavior.", ">\n\nYou are a whole lot of yikes for one little troll.", ">\n\nHow can people hurt their own family? SMH", ">\n\nCan’t guys just kill themselves and leave the women and children out of this?", ">\n\nThey’re too pussy to end themselves of their own volition, so they have to commit one of the most vile atrocities that finally guilts them into doing it. Sad", ">\n\nMen need to learn to walk away.", ">\n\nIt’s more usually an inability to let the woman walk away.", ">\n\nI think so too, probably hurts more seeing your partner be with someone else than you moving on.", ">\n\nUgh! Thank god this person with a history of mental health issues had easy access to a firearm!!! Imagine if the government had supplied him with psychiatric care instead!", ">\n\nHave guys like this never heard of divorce?", ">\n\nHave guys like this ever heard of not being entitled to 'own' 'your' women and children to the point of murdering them if you want to?", ">\n\nCan’t fathom the rationale that goes into killing your own children. I don’t think it’s something a sane person could ever justify. Spousal homicide does occasionally have a justification. (Like say the wife in this situation killed the husband first).", ">\n\nI'm so so very tired of seeing \"mental illness\" within the articles that cover these murderers. \nThere are a bajillion mentally ill people out there, but very very few kill their families. \nHow about blaming the shithead family annihilators for it? It's disgusting. These scumbags really think that their kids can't live without them there to take care of them. I promise you, they can. \nPlease, just off yourself and leave the rest of your family to live and thrive in your absence.", ">\n\nYoure so right. Most of the time these men are already abusive and they snap when their wifes dare to try and walk away", ">\n\nThe NRA wasn't always like this. It was pro gun-control laws until it was taken over by a racist murderer named Harlon Carter.", ">\n\nThe NRA's \"good side\" has a rich legacy of education, charity, and anti-discrimination that they've progressively ruined with the decision to participate in lobbying and partisan politics.\nI have seen first hand how the NRA's resources do a lot of good for educating gun safety, just to read a new article every week about partisanship, fraud, or any other number of fucked up shit.", ">\n\nI hate the way the police chief just had to slip some copaganda in, talking about worrying over his officers because of how bad the crime scene was. \n40% of cops admit to abusing their wives & families, I think your Nazis for the state will survive bro-especially considering the way the state routinely and systemically fails to protect women and children from violent men.\nIt just grosses me out that he could have talked about how this case highlights the seriousness of intimate partner violence, patriarchal violence, why mental health is a key part of stopping shit like this, etc, but instead chose to make it about how “hard” the situation is for the cops.", ">\n\n4 lives that could have been saved with sensible gun laws, but the gun nuts will tell you that a good guy with a gun could have been there, inside of the victims home, to prevent it.", ">\n\nThere's already policy and law that covers this case. So the real problem is, why wasn't it enforced?", ">\n\nBecause the enforcers love their guns.", ">\n\nThen we need to do something about that. Not waste time making another law that covers the exact same ground.", ">\n\nIf shooting kids en masse didn't do anything I'm not sure what will work.", ">\n\nWe are just killing ourselves and then sitting at the table and chatting about it afterwards. Then we go back to it. This country is so young and still too damn wild.", ">\n\nA man in California deliberately drove his family off a 250 foot cliff above the ocean a few days ago... His wiife and 2 young children. Bizarrely, they all survived!", ">\n\nAmericans don't care, as long as the can keep their guns no one gives a shit about dead kids.", ">\n\n\"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.\"", ">\n\nThe America republicans love and embrace", ">\n\nBeing married to a man/being parented by a man is going to emerge as a leading cause of death for women and in the U.S.", ">\n\nWonder which conspiracy was his favorite lol", ">\n\nThe crazy thing is, anyone with a gun can pretty much just point it at any random person and change their life forever.", ">\n\nYup—even many people who survive getting shot require serious medical attention for the rest of their lives as a result.", ">\n\nIt really scares me that some people are capable of such atrocity.", ">\n\nIf you wanna check out early, just do it and be done with it. Don't take others with you.", ">\n\nThe cost of 2a is paid everyday in American blood and lives 🇺🇸 see y’all again tomorrow", ">\n\nIs this the Q golden parachute?", ">\n\nGun ownership is a power trip I can't believe I just realized that", ">\n\nFrickin pus$y. Hey you “alpha males” out there. You too are pus$ies if you even think this is in any way justifiable. Move to Barbados, take up a hobby, or just leave, whatever… if you own a gun, fine… but if you’re even considering it, get some help, or just turn it only on yourself.", ">\n\nMain reason I don't own a gun. I don't trust that some mechanism in the brain doesn't just break and someone just does this seemingly without rhyme or reason.", ">\n\nLots of those going on, we’ll just keep making guns easy to get.", ">\n\nThey'll find ways to get them and most law enforcement stopped doing their jobs. Maybe we could do more to prevent mental illness.", ">\n\nPure lip service, they’ll cut all healthcare including mental because they don’t give a shit. Don’t vote Republican ever.", ">\n\nAnother American badass with a gun. Glorious!", ">\n\nOr, another American with who knows what debilitating mental illnesses going unchecked. You know, the real issue, outside of our less than phenomenal gun laws.", ">\n\nAll those mentally ill people stabbing their families to death is a real issue. Lol. \nIt's the guns... The mental illness is denying that at this point.", ">\n\nGood thing it was do easy for him to get a gun, wasn’t it?", ">\n\nMental heath crisis is such a problem in our time. So sad. Praying for family and friends.", ">\n\nIt's Gunday in America ... these things happen.", ">\n\nHe was a responsible gun owner right to the end ... until he wasn't.", ">\n\nHe couldn't own firearms, nothing responsible about that. Authorities fucked up big time", ">\n\n\"What law could have prevented this,\" said no responsible gun owner owner ever.", ">\n\nThese news are unfortunately common in lot of parts of the world, except the weapon of choice varies. Poverty, debt, failure, \"honor\", mental illness etc are factors.", ">\n\nThis is why it's so important for women to choose a man wisely. Girl don't have to settle on this kind of s*** I think this is not the first time that it happens. Plus the kids? Have mercy.", ">\n\nBased on the picture he looks like he lives in one of those \"BEND RIGHT OVER FROM THE 400's\" neighborhoods in Holly Springs or Fuquay-Varina so I can't really blame him for committing suicide, the family didn't deserve it though.", ">\n\nIn other news, cheap four bedroom home available somewhere in North Carolina.", ">\n\n\"A man with a history of mental illness opened fire inside his North Carolina home, killing his wife and three children before and then himself, police said Monday... High Point police officers had responded to the address of Saturday's shooting five other times since 2014, officials said... The shooter was the target of a Jan. 3, 2022, involuntary commitment, officials said, though police are still seeking more information about that case.\"\nGood thing he still had his 2A rights. /s", ">\n\nThe term is \"Family Annihilator\". Men do this often, especially when their wives try to leave them. Still don't understand how women get the \"emotional\" reputation. All these guys need to do is sign a divorce slip, not murder their wife and children.", ">\n\nSo how did someone with a mental illness get a gun? \nNever mind." ]

[]

[ "Good initiative but there are lots of rural and poor communities who still use this, so this agency should take steps to help them find alternatives" ]

[ "Good initiative but there are lots of rural and poor communities who still use this, so this agency should take steps to help them find alternatives", ">\n\n\nHowever, Biden’s landmark Inflation Reduction Act includes a rebate of up to $840 for an electric stove or other electric appliances, and up to an $500 to help cover the costs of converting to electric from gas." ]

[ "Good initiative but there are lots of rural and poor communities who still use this, so this agency should take steps to help them find alternatives", ">\n\n\nHowever, Biden’s landmark Inflation Reduction Act includes a rebate of up to $840 for an electric stove or other electric appliances, and up to an $500 to help cover the costs of converting to electric from gas.", ">\n\nDoes that include induction cooktops? I mean, its electric still but coil stove heat sucks." ]

[ "Good initiative but there are lots of rural and poor communities who still use this, so this agency should take steps to help them find alternatives", ">\n\n\nHowever, Biden’s landmark Inflation Reduction Act includes a rebate of up to $840 for an electric stove or other electric appliances, and up to an $500 to help cover the costs of converting to electric from gas.", ">\n\nDoes that include induction cooktops? I mean, its electric still but coil stove heat sucks.", ">\n\nGoogled and found this.\n\nIf you qualify for the full rebate, you could save $840 on a new electric or induction stove, and up to an additional $500 if you are switching from gas or propane. That means, depending on the model you go with, you could get a brand new induction or electric stove for as little as just a couple hundred dollars." ]