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innovation-hacking2

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shitposting_dataset3

like 0

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave..." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply)." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays" ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem" ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees" ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?" ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working" ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"" ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required" ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people" ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?" ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity" ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that" ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?" ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state" ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3" ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services)." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!" ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"" ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time" ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\"." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know" ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them" ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again.." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf" ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af.", ">\n\nObligatory fuck the Tory Parasite Party" ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af.", ">\n\nObligatory fuck the Tory Parasite Party", ">\n\nThey’ll just bring in workers from the EU! Oh wait…." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af.", ">\n\nObligatory fuck the Tory Parasite Party", ">\n\nThey’ll just bring in workers from the EU! Oh wait….", ">\n\ncheering for you guys from the states 🤜" ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af.", ">\n\nObligatory fuck the Tory Parasite Party", ">\n\nThey’ll just bring in workers from the EU! Oh wait….", ">\n\ncheering for you guys from the states 🤜", ">\n\nWhen are we doin this in US?" ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af.", ">\n\nObligatory fuck the Tory Parasite Party", ">\n\nThey’ll just bring in workers from the EU! Oh wait….", ">\n\ncheering for you guys from the states 🤜", ">\n\nWhen are we doin this in US?", ">\n\nGodspeed to these people." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af.", ">\n\nObligatory fuck the Tory Parasite Party", ">\n\nThey’ll just bring in workers from the EU! Oh wait….", ">\n\ncheering for you guys from the states 🤜", ">\n\nWhen are we doin this in US?", ">\n\nGodspeed to these people.", ">\n\nCan't wait to see how the government tries to blame this on the people 'not wanting to work'." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af.", ">\n\nObligatory fuck the Tory Parasite Party", ">\n\nThey’ll just bring in workers from the EU! Oh wait….", ">\n\ncheering for you guys from the states 🤜", ">\n\nWhen are we doin this in US?", ">\n\nGodspeed to these people.", ">\n\nCan't wait to see how the government tries to blame this on the people 'not wanting to work'.", ">\n\nGood luck to them. Let’s do the same here." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af.", ">\n\nObligatory fuck the Tory Parasite Party", ">\n\nThey’ll just bring in workers from the EU! Oh wait….", ">\n\ncheering for you guys from the states 🤜", ">\n\nWhen are we doin this in US?", ">\n\nGodspeed to these people.", ">\n\nCan't wait to see how the government tries to blame this on the people 'not wanting to work'.", ">\n\nGood luck to them. Let’s do the same here.", ">\n\nLargest strike - so far! \nCan’t wait for this to blow over and start getting those Brexit benefits. \nAny second now…" ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af.", ">\n\nObligatory fuck the Tory Parasite Party", ">\n\nThey’ll just bring in workers from the EU! Oh wait….", ">\n\ncheering for you guys from the states 🤜", ">\n\nWhen are we doin this in US?", ">\n\nGodspeed to these people.", ">\n\nCan't wait to see how the government tries to blame this on the people 'not wanting to work'.", ">\n\nGood luck to them. Let’s do the same here.", ">\n\nLargest strike - so far! \nCan’t wait for this to blow over and start getting those Brexit benefits. \nAny second now…", ">\n\nSOLIDARITY FOREVER INNIT" ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af.", ">\n\nObligatory fuck the Tory Parasite Party", ">\n\nThey’ll just bring in workers from the EU! Oh wait….", ">\n\ncheering for you guys from the states 🤜", ">\n\nWhen are we doin this in US?", ">\n\nGodspeed to these people.", ">\n\nCan't wait to see how the government tries to blame this on the people 'not wanting to work'.", ">\n\nGood luck to them. Let’s do the same here.", ">\n\nLargest strike - so far! \nCan’t wait for this to blow over and start getting those Brexit benefits. \nAny second now…", ">\n\nSOLIDARITY FOREVER INNIT", ">\n\nBrexit is the gift that keeps on giving." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af.", ">\n\nObligatory fuck the Tory Parasite Party", ">\n\nThey’ll just bring in workers from the EU! Oh wait….", ">\n\ncheering for you guys from the states 🤜", ">\n\nWhen are we doin this in US?", ">\n\nGodspeed to these people.", ">\n\nCan't wait to see how the government tries to blame this on the people 'not wanting to work'.", ">\n\nGood luck to them. Let’s do the same here.", ">\n\nLargest strike - so far! \nCan’t wait for this to blow over and start getting those Brexit benefits. \nAny second now…", ">\n\nSOLIDARITY FOREVER INNIT", ">\n\nBrexit is the gift that keeps on giving.", ">\n\nThis isn't down to Brexit, this is more the government refusing to actually offer anything significant to the people who are protesting.\nFor example the NHS nurses have not seen a pay rise in line with inflation (or above) since 2010, the nurses at the beginning of this said they would not strike if the goverment would actually attend a meeting, the government didn't attend what started the strikes and now the nurses aren't going to stop, railworkers are more concerned about their employment conditions (I have family who work in the rail network and this is what they are telling me) but the news like to make everything about money, the rest are also on strike due to pay where they haven't seen much money invested into these sectors.\nThe Tories haven't put any significant investments into the public sector for years, they claim they will every year they got voted in and never did, these strikes have been a long time coming way before brexit.\nThe government instead of resolving these strikes through negotiations they are trying to pass laws where the government can decide the minimum service levels, in their words \"these laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\" what is absolutely idiotic because if that law was enacted the strikers would simply quit and the NHS and railway will be pushed more towards privatisation (a lot of speculation that is what the Tories want), also strikes is a fundamental for democracy.\nSo yeah not much about Brexit, more about our government what can't admit they have fucked up over the course of years and refuse to accept they are wrong, they are doing the same around not speaking with the EU and trying to destroy every EU law even when every single economic / human rights adviser as warned against , they believe if they make a u-turn they will be destroyed what is likely true, they are just trying to cling to power as long as they can at this point." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af.", ">\n\nObligatory fuck the Tory Parasite Party", ">\n\nThey’ll just bring in workers from the EU! Oh wait….", ">\n\ncheering for you guys from the states 🤜", ">\n\nWhen are we doin this in US?", ">\n\nGodspeed to these people.", ">\n\nCan't wait to see how the government tries to blame this on the people 'not wanting to work'.", ">\n\nGood luck to them. Let’s do the same here.", ">\n\nLargest strike - so far! \nCan’t wait for this to blow over and start getting those Brexit benefits. \nAny second now…", ">\n\nSOLIDARITY FOREVER INNIT", ">\n\nBrexit is the gift that keeps on giving.", ">\n\nThis isn't down to Brexit, this is more the government refusing to actually offer anything significant to the people who are protesting.\nFor example the NHS nurses have not seen a pay rise in line with inflation (or above) since 2010, the nurses at the beginning of this said they would not strike if the goverment would actually attend a meeting, the government didn't attend what started the strikes and now the nurses aren't going to stop, railworkers are more concerned about their employment conditions (I have family who work in the rail network and this is what they are telling me) but the news like to make everything about money, the rest are also on strike due to pay where they haven't seen much money invested into these sectors.\nThe Tories haven't put any significant investments into the public sector for years, they claim they will every year they got voted in and never did, these strikes have been a long time coming way before brexit.\nThe government instead of resolving these strikes through negotiations they are trying to pass laws where the government can decide the minimum service levels, in their words \"these laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\" what is absolutely idiotic because if that law was enacted the strikers would simply quit and the NHS and railway will be pushed more towards privatisation (a lot of speculation that is what the Tories want), also strikes is a fundamental for democracy.\nSo yeah not much about Brexit, more about our government what can't admit they have fucked up over the course of years and refuse to accept they are wrong, they are doing the same around not speaking with the EU and trying to destroy every EU law even when every single economic / human rights adviser as warned against , they believe if they make a u-turn they will be destroyed what is likely true, they are just trying to cling to power as long as they can at this point.", ">\n\n\nthese laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\"\n\nSmooth brain move: make it illegal to endanger the patients, and thus any strike would endanger them. If you strike, your license is revoked. Worry because numbers studying the field immediately crater." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af.", ">\n\nObligatory fuck the Tory Parasite Party", ">\n\nThey’ll just bring in workers from the EU! Oh wait….", ">\n\ncheering for you guys from the states 🤜", ">\n\nWhen are we doin this in US?", ">\n\nGodspeed to these people.", ">\n\nCan't wait to see how the government tries to blame this on the people 'not wanting to work'.", ">\n\nGood luck to them. Let’s do the same here.", ">\n\nLargest strike - so far! \nCan’t wait for this to blow over and start getting those Brexit benefits. \nAny second now…", ">\n\nSOLIDARITY FOREVER INNIT", ">\n\nBrexit is the gift that keeps on giving.", ">\n\nThis isn't down to Brexit, this is more the government refusing to actually offer anything significant to the people who are protesting.\nFor example the NHS nurses have not seen a pay rise in line with inflation (or above) since 2010, the nurses at the beginning of this said they would not strike if the goverment would actually attend a meeting, the government didn't attend what started the strikes and now the nurses aren't going to stop, railworkers are more concerned about their employment conditions (I have family who work in the rail network and this is what they are telling me) but the news like to make everything about money, the rest are also on strike due to pay where they haven't seen much money invested into these sectors.\nThe Tories haven't put any significant investments into the public sector for years, they claim they will every year they got voted in and never did, these strikes have been a long time coming way before brexit.\nThe government instead of resolving these strikes through negotiations they are trying to pass laws where the government can decide the minimum service levels, in their words \"these laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\" what is absolutely idiotic because if that law was enacted the strikers would simply quit and the NHS and railway will be pushed more towards privatisation (a lot of speculation that is what the Tories want), also strikes is a fundamental for democracy.\nSo yeah not much about Brexit, more about our government what can't admit they have fucked up over the course of years and refuse to accept they are wrong, they are doing the same around not speaking with the EU and trying to destroy every EU law even when every single economic / human rights adviser as warned against , they believe if they make a u-turn they will be destroyed what is likely true, they are just trying to cling to power as long as they can at this point.", ">\n\n\nthese laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\"\n\nSmooth brain move: make it illegal to endanger the patients, and thus any strike would endanger them. If you strike, your license is revoked. Worry because numbers studying the field immediately crater.", ">\n\nRoughly how it is in Canada. Nurses can't strike so their union has to get creative with how it negotiates." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af.", ">\n\nObligatory fuck the Tory Parasite Party", ">\n\nThey’ll just bring in workers from the EU! Oh wait….", ">\n\ncheering for you guys from the states 🤜", ">\n\nWhen are we doin this in US?", ">\n\nGodspeed to these people.", ">\n\nCan't wait to see how the government tries to blame this on the people 'not wanting to work'.", ">\n\nGood luck to them. Let’s do the same here.", ">\n\nLargest strike - so far! \nCan’t wait for this to blow over and start getting those Brexit benefits. \nAny second now…", ">\n\nSOLIDARITY FOREVER INNIT", ">\n\nBrexit is the gift that keeps on giving.", ">\n\nThis isn't down to Brexit, this is more the government refusing to actually offer anything significant to the people who are protesting.\nFor example the NHS nurses have not seen a pay rise in line with inflation (or above) since 2010, the nurses at the beginning of this said they would not strike if the goverment would actually attend a meeting, the government didn't attend what started the strikes and now the nurses aren't going to stop, railworkers are more concerned about their employment conditions (I have family who work in the rail network and this is what they are telling me) but the news like to make everything about money, the rest are also on strike due to pay where they haven't seen much money invested into these sectors.\nThe Tories haven't put any significant investments into the public sector for years, they claim they will every year they got voted in and never did, these strikes have been a long time coming way before brexit.\nThe government instead of resolving these strikes through negotiations they are trying to pass laws where the government can decide the minimum service levels, in their words \"these laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\" what is absolutely idiotic because if that law was enacted the strikers would simply quit and the NHS and railway will be pushed more towards privatisation (a lot of speculation that is what the Tories want), also strikes is a fundamental for democracy.\nSo yeah not much about Brexit, more about our government what can't admit they have fucked up over the course of years and refuse to accept they are wrong, they are doing the same around not speaking with the EU and trying to destroy every EU law even when every single economic / human rights adviser as warned against , they believe if they make a u-turn they will be destroyed what is likely true, they are just trying to cling to power as long as they can at this point.", ">\n\n\nthese laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\"\n\nSmooth brain move: make it illegal to endanger the patients, and thus any strike would endanger them. If you strike, your license is revoked. Worry because numbers studying the field immediately crater.", ">\n\nRoughly how it is in Canada. Nurses can't strike so their union has to get creative with how it negotiates.", ">\n\nAnd now Canada has such a huge shortage of medical workers that my friends in Canada are on years-long waiting lists to be treated for debilitating conditions. Shocking!" ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af.", ">\n\nObligatory fuck the Tory Parasite Party", ">\n\nThey’ll just bring in workers from the EU! Oh wait….", ">\n\ncheering for you guys from the states 🤜", ">\n\nWhen are we doin this in US?", ">\n\nGodspeed to these people.", ">\n\nCan't wait to see how the government tries to blame this on the people 'not wanting to work'.", ">\n\nGood luck to them. Let’s do the same here.", ">\n\nLargest strike - so far! \nCan’t wait for this to blow over and start getting those Brexit benefits. \nAny second now…", ">\n\nSOLIDARITY FOREVER INNIT", ">\n\nBrexit is the gift that keeps on giving.", ">\n\nThis isn't down to Brexit, this is more the government refusing to actually offer anything significant to the people who are protesting.\nFor example the NHS nurses have not seen a pay rise in line with inflation (or above) since 2010, the nurses at the beginning of this said they would not strike if the goverment would actually attend a meeting, the government didn't attend what started the strikes and now the nurses aren't going to stop, railworkers are more concerned about their employment conditions (I have family who work in the rail network and this is what they are telling me) but the news like to make everything about money, the rest are also on strike due to pay where they haven't seen much money invested into these sectors.\nThe Tories haven't put any significant investments into the public sector for years, they claim they will every year they got voted in and never did, these strikes have been a long time coming way before brexit.\nThe government instead of resolving these strikes through negotiations they are trying to pass laws where the government can decide the minimum service levels, in their words \"these laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\" what is absolutely idiotic because if that law was enacted the strikers would simply quit and the NHS and railway will be pushed more towards privatisation (a lot of speculation that is what the Tories want), also strikes is a fundamental for democracy.\nSo yeah not much about Brexit, more about our government what can't admit they have fucked up over the course of years and refuse to accept they are wrong, they are doing the same around not speaking with the EU and trying to destroy every EU law even when every single economic / human rights adviser as warned against , they believe if they make a u-turn they will be destroyed what is likely true, they are just trying to cling to power as long as they can at this point.", ">\n\n\nthese laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\"\n\nSmooth brain move: make it illegal to endanger the patients, and thus any strike would endanger them. If you strike, your license is revoked. Worry because numbers studying the field immediately crater.", ">\n\nRoughly how it is in Canada. Nurses can't strike so their union has to get creative with how it negotiates.", ">\n\nAnd now Canada has such a huge shortage of medical workers that my friends in Canada are on years-long waiting lists to be treated for debilitating conditions. Shocking!", ">\n\nYeah there's a lot to be fixed. \nThe shift in the labour market is creating a lot of problems and governments don't want to pay more to keep the staff they have. That coupled with the boomers moving to retirement and beyond will provide for a stressful next decade." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af.", ">\n\nObligatory fuck the Tory Parasite Party", ">\n\nThey’ll just bring in workers from the EU! Oh wait….", ">\n\ncheering for you guys from the states 🤜", ">\n\nWhen are we doin this in US?", ">\n\nGodspeed to these people.", ">\n\nCan't wait to see how the government tries to blame this on the people 'not wanting to work'.", ">\n\nGood luck to them. Let’s do the same here.", ">\n\nLargest strike - so far! \nCan’t wait for this to blow over and start getting those Brexit benefits. \nAny second now…", ">\n\nSOLIDARITY FOREVER INNIT", ">\n\nBrexit is the gift that keeps on giving.", ">\n\nThis isn't down to Brexit, this is more the government refusing to actually offer anything significant to the people who are protesting.\nFor example the NHS nurses have not seen a pay rise in line with inflation (or above) since 2010, the nurses at the beginning of this said they would not strike if the goverment would actually attend a meeting, the government didn't attend what started the strikes and now the nurses aren't going to stop, railworkers are more concerned about their employment conditions (I have family who work in the rail network and this is what they are telling me) but the news like to make everything about money, the rest are also on strike due to pay where they haven't seen much money invested into these sectors.\nThe Tories haven't put any significant investments into the public sector for years, they claim they will every year they got voted in and never did, these strikes have been a long time coming way before brexit.\nThe government instead of resolving these strikes through negotiations they are trying to pass laws where the government can decide the minimum service levels, in their words \"these laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\" what is absolutely idiotic because if that law was enacted the strikers would simply quit and the NHS and railway will be pushed more towards privatisation (a lot of speculation that is what the Tories want), also strikes is a fundamental for democracy.\nSo yeah not much about Brexit, more about our government what can't admit they have fucked up over the course of years and refuse to accept they are wrong, they are doing the same around not speaking with the EU and trying to destroy every EU law even when every single economic / human rights adviser as warned against , they believe if they make a u-turn they will be destroyed what is likely true, they are just trying to cling to power as long as they can at this point.", ">\n\n\nthese laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\"\n\nSmooth brain move: make it illegal to endanger the patients, and thus any strike would endanger them. If you strike, your license is revoked. Worry because numbers studying the field immediately crater.", ">\n\nRoughly how it is in Canada. Nurses can't strike so their union has to get creative with how it negotiates.", ">\n\nAnd now Canada has such a huge shortage of medical workers that my friends in Canada are on years-long waiting lists to be treated for debilitating conditions. Shocking!", ">\n\nYeah there's a lot to be fixed. \nThe shift in the labour market is creating a lot of problems and governments don't want to pay more to keep the staff they have. That coupled with the boomers moving to retirement and beyond will provide for a stressful next decade.", ">\n\nThis is nice and all, but what are the chances of this actually doing something? The Tories hold all the cards, their entire strategy is causing disasters for political points and they're going to be out in a few years, so they haven't much reason to try to placate the voters. I'm finding it hard to be positive about this strike." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af.", ">\n\nObligatory fuck the Tory Parasite Party", ">\n\nThey’ll just bring in workers from the EU! Oh wait….", ">\n\ncheering for you guys from the states 🤜", ">\n\nWhen are we doin this in US?", ">\n\nGodspeed to these people.", ">\n\nCan't wait to see how the government tries to blame this on the people 'not wanting to work'.", ">\n\nGood luck to them. Let’s do the same here.", ">\n\nLargest strike - so far! \nCan’t wait for this to blow over and start getting those Brexit benefits. \nAny second now…", ">\n\nSOLIDARITY FOREVER INNIT", ">\n\nBrexit is the gift that keeps on giving.", ">\n\nThis isn't down to Brexit, this is more the government refusing to actually offer anything significant to the people who are protesting.\nFor example the NHS nurses have not seen a pay rise in line with inflation (or above) since 2010, the nurses at the beginning of this said they would not strike if the goverment would actually attend a meeting, the government didn't attend what started the strikes and now the nurses aren't going to stop, railworkers are more concerned about their employment conditions (I have family who work in the rail network and this is what they are telling me) but the news like to make everything about money, the rest are also on strike due to pay where they haven't seen much money invested into these sectors.\nThe Tories haven't put any significant investments into the public sector for years, they claim they will every year they got voted in and never did, these strikes have been a long time coming way before brexit.\nThe government instead of resolving these strikes through negotiations they are trying to pass laws where the government can decide the minimum service levels, in their words \"these laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\" what is absolutely idiotic because if that law was enacted the strikers would simply quit and the NHS and railway will be pushed more towards privatisation (a lot of speculation that is what the Tories want), also strikes is a fundamental for democracy.\nSo yeah not much about Brexit, more about our government what can't admit they have fucked up over the course of years and refuse to accept they are wrong, they are doing the same around not speaking with the EU and trying to destroy every EU law even when every single economic / human rights adviser as warned against , they believe if they make a u-turn they will be destroyed what is likely true, they are just trying to cling to power as long as they can at this point.", ">\n\n\nthese laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\"\n\nSmooth brain move: make it illegal to endanger the patients, and thus any strike would endanger them. If you strike, your license is revoked. Worry because numbers studying the field immediately crater.", ">\n\nRoughly how it is in Canada. Nurses can't strike so their union has to get creative with how it negotiates.", ">\n\nAnd now Canada has such a huge shortage of medical workers that my friends in Canada are on years-long waiting lists to be treated for debilitating conditions. Shocking!", ">\n\nYeah there's a lot to be fixed. \nThe shift in the labour market is creating a lot of problems and governments don't want to pay more to keep the staff they have. That coupled with the boomers moving to retirement and beyond will provide for a stressful next decade.", ">\n\nThis is nice and all, but what are the chances of this actually doing something? The Tories hold all the cards, their entire strategy is causing disasters for political points and they're going to be out in a few years, so they haven't much reason to try to placate the voters. I'm finding it hard to be positive about this strike.", ">\n\nI've been out on NHS picket lines, the amount of public support for workers is insane, I've never seen anything like it, even police are beeping as they go past. Even the relatively wealthy retired people I spend quite a lot of time working for have had enough. They are the ones who need most of the care and can't get it.\nHaving said that the only way I can see this ending is in something close to a general strike to force an election." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af.", ">\n\nObligatory fuck the Tory Parasite Party", ">\n\nThey’ll just bring in workers from the EU! Oh wait….", ">\n\ncheering for you guys from the states 🤜", ">\n\nWhen are we doin this in US?", ">\n\nGodspeed to these people.", ">\n\nCan't wait to see how the government tries to blame this on the people 'not wanting to work'.", ">\n\nGood luck to them. Let’s do the same here.", ">\n\nLargest strike - so far! \nCan’t wait for this to blow over and start getting those Brexit benefits. \nAny second now…", ">\n\nSOLIDARITY FOREVER INNIT", ">\n\nBrexit is the gift that keeps on giving.", ">\n\nThis isn't down to Brexit, this is more the government refusing to actually offer anything significant to the people who are protesting.\nFor example the NHS nurses have not seen a pay rise in line with inflation (or above) since 2010, the nurses at the beginning of this said they would not strike if the goverment would actually attend a meeting, the government didn't attend what started the strikes and now the nurses aren't going to stop, railworkers are more concerned about their employment conditions (I have family who work in the rail network and this is what they are telling me) but the news like to make everything about money, the rest are also on strike due to pay where they haven't seen much money invested into these sectors.\nThe Tories haven't put any significant investments into the public sector for years, they claim they will every year they got voted in and never did, these strikes have been a long time coming way before brexit.\nThe government instead of resolving these strikes through negotiations they are trying to pass laws where the government can decide the minimum service levels, in their words \"these laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\" what is absolutely idiotic because if that law was enacted the strikers would simply quit and the NHS and railway will be pushed more towards privatisation (a lot of speculation that is what the Tories want), also strikes is a fundamental for democracy.\nSo yeah not much about Brexit, more about our government what can't admit they have fucked up over the course of years and refuse to accept they are wrong, they are doing the same around not speaking with the EU and trying to destroy every EU law even when every single economic / human rights adviser as warned against , they believe if they make a u-turn they will be destroyed what is likely true, they are just trying to cling to power as long as they can at this point.", ">\n\n\nthese laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\"\n\nSmooth brain move: make it illegal to endanger the patients, and thus any strike would endanger them. If you strike, your license is revoked. Worry because numbers studying the field immediately crater.", ">\n\nRoughly how it is in Canada. Nurses can't strike so their union has to get creative with how it negotiates.", ">\n\nAnd now Canada has such a huge shortage of medical workers that my friends in Canada are on years-long waiting lists to be treated for debilitating conditions. Shocking!", ">\n\nYeah there's a lot to be fixed. \nThe shift in the labour market is creating a lot of problems and governments don't want to pay more to keep the staff they have. That coupled with the boomers moving to retirement and beyond will provide for a stressful next decade.", ">\n\nThis is nice and all, but what are the chances of this actually doing something? The Tories hold all the cards, their entire strategy is causing disasters for political points and they're going to be out in a few years, so they haven't much reason to try to placate the voters. I'm finding it hard to be positive about this strike.", ">\n\nI've been out on NHS picket lines, the amount of public support for workers is insane, I've never seen anything like it, even police are beeping as they go past. Even the relatively wealthy retired people I spend quite a lot of time working for have had enough. They are the ones who need most of the care and can't get it.\nHaving said that the only way I can see this ending is in something close to a general strike to force an election.", ">\n\nThe end will only come when economic conditions improve rather than with an election - inflation has historically driven strikes even under Labour (the strikes of the late 1970s being the most famous example). That party might have more constructive talks with the unions but talk only goes so far.\nUnfortunately a lot of the inflation is driven by things that have already been done. Low interest rates inflated the housing market until it could no longer absorb new money, Brexit has increased the price of trade, the Russian invasion of Ukraine has been destructive to European and global supply chains, and most fundamentally the UK working age population is no longer growing while the retired population is. So there's a lot of things holding up demand and not much supporting supply." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af.", ">\n\nObligatory fuck the Tory Parasite Party", ">\n\nThey’ll just bring in workers from the EU! Oh wait….", ">\n\ncheering for you guys from the states 🤜", ">\n\nWhen are we doin this in US?", ">\n\nGodspeed to these people.", ">\n\nCan't wait to see how the government tries to blame this on the people 'not wanting to work'.", ">\n\nGood luck to them. Let’s do the same here.", ">\n\nLargest strike - so far! \nCan’t wait for this to blow over and start getting those Brexit benefits. \nAny second now…", ">\n\nSOLIDARITY FOREVER INNIT", ">\n\nBrexit is the gift that keeps on giving.", ">\n\nThis isn't down to Brexit, this is more the government refusing to actually offer anything significant to the people who are protesting.\nFor example the NHS nurses have not seen a pay rise in line with inflation (or above) since 2010, the nurses at the beginning of this said they would not strike if the goverment would actually attend a meeting, the government didn't attend what started the strikes and now the nurses aren't going to stop, railworkers are more concerned about their employment conditions (I have family who work in the rail network and this is what they are telling me) but the news like to make everything about money, the rest are also on strike due to pay where they haven't seen much money invested into these sectors.\nThe Tories haven't put any significant investments into the public sector for years, they claim they will every year they got voted in and never did, these strikes have been a long time coming way before brexit.\nThe government instead of resolving these strikes through negotiations they are trying to pass laws where the government can decide the minimum service levels, in their words \"these laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\" what is absolutely idiotic because if that law was enacted the strikers would simply quit and the NHS and railway will be pushed more towards privatisation (a lot of speculation that is what the Tories want), also strikes is a fundamental for democracy.\nSo yeah not much about Brexit, more about our government what can't admit they have fucked up over the course of years and refuse to accept they are wrong, they are doing the same around not speaking with the EU and trying to destroy every EU law even when every single economic / human rights adviser as warned against , they believe if they make a u-turn they will be destroyed what is likely true, they are just trying to cling to power as long as they can at this point.", ">\n\n\nthese laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\"\n\nSmooth brain move: make it illegal to endanger the patients, and thus any strike would endanger them. If you strike, your license is revoked. Worry because numbers studying the field immediately crater.", ">\n\nRoughly how it is in Canada. Nurses can't strike so their union has to get creative with how it negotiates.", ">\n\nAnd now Canada has such a huge shortage of medical workers that my friends in Canada are on years-long waiting lists to be treated for debilitating conditions. Shocking!", ">\n\nYeah there's a lot to be fixed. \nThe shift in the labour market is creating a lot of problems and governments don't want to pay more to keep the staff they have. That coupled with the boomers moving to retirement and beyond will provide for a stressful next decade.", ">\n\nThis is nice and all, but what are the chances of this actually doing something? The Tories hold all the cards, their entire strategy is causing disasters for political points and they're going to be out in a few years, so they haven't much reason to try to placate the voters. I'm finding it hard to be positive about this strike.", ">\n\nI've been out on NHS picket lines, the amount of public support for workers is insane, I've never seen anything like it, even police are beeping as they go past. Even the relatively wealthy retired people I spend quite a lot of time working for have had enough. They are the ones who need most of the care and can't get it.\nHaving said that the only way I can see this ending is in something close to a general strike to force an election.", ">\n\nThe end will only come when economic conditions improve rather than with an election - inflation has historically driven strikes even under Labour (the strikes of the late 1970s being the most famous example). That party might have more constructive talks with the unions but talk only goes so far.\nUnfortunately a lot of the inflation is driven by things that have already been done. Low interest rates inflated the housing market until it could no longer absorb new money, Brexit has increased the price of trade, the Russian invasion of Ukraine has been destructive to European and global supply chains, and most fundamentally the UK working age population is no longer growing while the retired population is. So there's a lot of things holding up demand and not much supporting supply.", ">\n\nThe country will only improve when the people running it have a plan and desire to make things better, the current government is in a zombie parasite mode, it's only plan is to suck as much wealth out as possible before it dies.\nEvery day without a new government that actually governs is extending the time it will take to recover." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af.", ">\n\nObligatory fuck the Tory Parasite Party", ">\n\nThey’ll just bring in workers from the EU! Oh wait….", ">\n\ncheering for you guys from the states 🤜", ">\n\nWhen are we doin this in US?", ">\n\nGodspeed to these people.", ">\n\nCan't wait to see how the government tries to blame this on the people 'not wanting to work'.", ">\n\nGood luck to them. Let’s do the same here.", ">\n\nLargest strike - so far! \nCan’t wait for this to blow over and start getting those Brexit benefits. \nAny second now…", ">\n\nSOLIDARITY FOREVER INNIT", ">\n\nBrexit is the gift that keeps on giving.", ">\n\nThis isn't down to Brexit, this is more the government refusing to actually offer anything significant to the people who are protesting.\nFor example the NHS nurses have not seen a pay rise in line with inflation (or above) since 2010, the nurses at the beginning of this said they would not strike if the goverment would actually attend a meeting, the government didn't attend what started the strikes and now the nurses aren't going to stop, railworkers are more concerned about their employment conditions (I have family who work in the rail network and this is what they are telling me) but the news like to make everything about money, the rest are also on strike due to pay where they haven't seen much money invested into these sectors.\nThe Tories haven't put any significant investments into the public sector for years, they claim they will every year they got voted in and never did, these strikes have been a long time coming way before brexit.\nThe government instead of resolving these strikes through negotiations they are trying to pass laws where the government can decide the minimum service levels, in their words \"these laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\" what is absolutely idiotic because if that law was enacted the strikers would simply quit and the NHS and railway will be pushed more towards privatisation (a lot of speculation that is what the Tories want), also strikes is a fundamental for democracy.\nSo yeah not much about Brexit, more about our government what can't admit they have fucked up over the course of years and refuse to accept they are wrong, they are doing the same around not speaking with the EU and trying to destroy every EU law even when every single economic / human rights adviser as warned against , they believe if they make a u-turn they will be destroyed what is likely true, they are just trying to cling to power as long as they can at this point.", ">\n\n\nthese laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\"\n\nSmooth brain move: make it illegal to endanger the patients, and thus any strike would endanger them. If you strike, your license is revoked. Worry because numbers studying the field immediately crater.", ">\n\nRoughly how it is in Canada. Nurses can't strike so their union has to get creative with how it negotiates.", ">\n\nAnd now Canada has such a huge shortage of medical workers that my friends in Canada are on years-long waiting lists to be treated for debilitating conditions. Shocking!", ">\n\nYeah there's a lot to be fixed. \nThe shift in the labour market is creating a lot of problems and governments don't want to pay more to keep the staff they have. That coupled with the boomers moving to retirement and beyond will provide for a stressful next decade.", ">\n\nThis is nice and all, but what are the chances of this actually doing something? The Tories hold all the cards, their entire strategy is causing disasters for political points and they're going to be out in a few years, so they haven't much reason to try to placate the voters. I'm finding it hard to be positive about this strike.", ">\n\nI've been out on NHS picket lines, the amount of public support for workers is insane, I've never seen anything like it, even police are beeping as they go past. Even the relatively wealthy retired people I spend quite a lot of time working for have had enough. They are the ones who need most of the care and can't get it.\nHaving said that the only way I can see this ending is in something close to a general strike to force an election.", ">\n\nThe end will only come when economic conditions improve rather than with an election - inflation has historically driven strikes even under Labour (the strikes of the late 1970s being the most famous example). That party might have more constructive talks with the unions but talk only goes so far.\nUnfortunately a lot of the inflation is driven by things that have already been done. Low interest rates inflated the housing market until it could no longer absorb new money, Brexit has increased the price of trade, the Russian invasion of Ukraine has been destructive to European and global supply chains, and most fundamentally the UK working age population is no longer growing while the retired population is. So there's a lot of things holding up demand and not much supporting supply.", ">\n\nThe country will only improve when the people running it have a plan and desire to make things better, the current government is in a zombie parasite mode, it's only plan is to suck as much wealth out as possible before it dies.\nEvery day without a new government that actually governs is extending the time it will take to recover.", ">\n\nI would broadly agree, though the first couple of years post-election will probably see the most unpopular/painful decisions needed for the recovery to be made.\nPolitically, they will have a choice of focusing on their core vote or maintaining the margins - the Conservatives have tried the former but Labour seems to be set on the latter, and so far this is working electorally." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af.", ">\n\nObligatory fuck the Tory Parasite Party", ">\n\nThey’ll just bring in workers from the EU! Oh wait….", ">\n\ncheering for you guys from the states 🤜", ">\n\nWhen are we doin this in US?", ">\n\nGodspeed to these people.", ">\n\nCan't wait to see how the government tries to blame this on the people 'not wanting to work'.", ">\n\nGood luck to them. Let’s do the same here.", ">\n\nLargest strike - so far! \nCan’t wait for this to blow over and start getting those Brexit benefits. \nAny second now…", ">\n\nSOLIDARITY FOREVER INNIT", ">\n\nBrexit is the gift that keeps on giving.", ">\n\nThis isn't down to Brexit, this is more the government refusing to actually offer anything significant to the people who are protesting.\nFor example the NHS nurses have not seen a pay rise in line with inflation (or above) since 2010, the nurses at the beginning of this said they would not strike if the goverment would actually attend a meeting, the government didn't attend what started the strikes and now the nurses aren't going to stop, railworkers are more concerned about their employment conditions (I have family who work in the rail network and this is what they are telling me) but the news like to make everything about money, the rest are also on strike due to pay where they haven't seen much money invested into these sectors.\nThe Tories haven't put any significant investments into the public sector for years, they claim they will every year they got voted in and never did, these strikes have been a long time coming way before brexit.\nThe government instead of resolving these strikes through negotiations they are trying to pass laws where the government can decide the minimum service levels, in their words \"these laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\" what is absolutely idiotic because if that law was enacted the strikers would simply quit and the NHS and railway will be pushed more towards privatisation (a lot of speculation that is what the Tories want), also strikes is a fundamental for democracy.\nSo yeah not much about Brexit, more about our government what can't admit they have fucked up over the course of years and refuse to accept they are wrong, they are doing the same around not speaking with the EU and trying to destroy every EU law even when every single economic / human rights adviser as warned against , they believe if they make a u-turn they will be destroyed what is likely true, they are just trying to cling to power as long as they can at this point.", ">\n\n\nthese laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\"\n\nSmooth brain move: make it illegal to endanger the patients, and thus any strike would endanger them. If you strike, your license is revoked. Worry because numbers studying the field immediately crater.", ">\n\nRoughly how it is in Canada. Nurses can't strike so their union has to get creative with how it negotiates.", ">\n\nAnd now Canada has such a huge shortage of medical workers that my friends in Canada are on years-long waiting lists to be treated for debilitating conditions. Shocking!", ">\n\nYeah there's a lot to be fixed. \nThe shift in the labour market is creating a lot of problems and governments don't want to pay more to keep the staff they have. That coupled with the boomers moving to retirement and beyond will provide for a stressful next decade.", ">\n\nThis is nice and all, but what are the chances of this actually doing something? The Tories hold all the cards, their entire strategy is causing disasters for political points and they're going to be out in a few years, so they haven't much reason to try to placate the voters. I'm finding it hard to be positive about this strike.", ">\n\nI've been out on NHS picket lines, the amount of public support for workers is insane, I've never seen anything like it, even police are beeping as they go past. Even the relatively wealthy retired people I spend quite a lot of time working for have had enough. They are the ones who need most of the care and can't get it.\nHaving said that the only way I can see this ending is in something close to a general strike to force an election.", ">\n\nThe end will only come when economic conditions improve rather than with an election - inflation has historically driven strikes even under Labour (the strikes of the late 1970s being the most famous example). That party might have more constructive talks with the unions but talk only goes so far.\nUnfortunately a lot of the inflation is driven by things that have already been done. Low interest rates inflated the housing market until it could no longer absorb new money, Brexit has increased the price of trade, the Russian invasion of Ukraine has been destructive to European and global supply chains, and most fundamentally the UK working age population is no longer growing while the retired population is. So there's a lot of things holding up demand and not much supporting supply.", ">\n\nThe country will only improve when the people running it have a plan and desire to make things better, the current government is in a zombie parasite mode, it's only plan is to suck as much wealth out as possible before it dies.\nEvery day without a new government that actually governs is extending the time it will take to recover.", ">\n\nI would broadly agree, though the first couple of years post-election will probably see the most unpopular/painful decisions needed for the recovery to be made.\nPolitically, they will have a choice of focusing on their core vote or maintaining the margins - the Conservatives have tried the former but Labour seems to be set on the latter, and so far this is working electorally.", ">\n\nIt's not going to be easy but once there are people in charge that actually want to do the job they can start getting to grips with the huge inefficiencies that have creapt in over years of a void in management and planning that has lead to staff firefighting day to day across the public services. \nWe need ministers and departments that want to run services for the public rather than ones who believe that public services are some kind of cancer." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af.", ">\n\nObligatory fuck the Tory Parasite Party", ">\n\nThey’ll just bring in workers from the EU! Oh wait….", ">\n\ncheering for you guys from the states 🤜", ">\n\nWhen are we doin this in US?", ">\n\nGodspeed to these people.", ">\n\nCan't wait to see how the government tries to blame this on the people 'not wanting to work'.", ">\n\nGood luck to them. Let’s do the same here.", ">\n\nLargest strike - so far! \nCan’t wait for this to blow over and start getting those Brexit benefits. \nAny second now…", ">\n\nSOLIDARITY FOREVER INNIT", ">\n\nBrexit is the gift that keeps on giving.", ">\n\nThis isn't down to Brexit, this is more the government refusing to actually offer anything significant to the people who are protesting.\nFor example the NHS nurses have not seen a pay rise in line with inflation (or above) since 2010, the nurses at the beginning of this said they would not strike if the goverment would actually attend a meeting, the government didn't attend what started the strikes and now the nurses aren't going to stop, railworkers are more concerned about their employment conditions (I have family who work in the rail network and this is what they are telling me) but the news like to make everything about money, the rest are also on strike due to pay where they haven't seen much money invested into these sectors.\nThe Tories haven't put any significant investments into the public sector for years, they claim they will every year they got voted in and never did, these strikes have been a long time coming way before brexit.\nThe government instead of resolving these strikes through negotiations they are trying to pass laws where the government can decide the minimum service levels, in their words \"these laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\" what is absolutely idiotic because if that law was enacted the strikers would simply quit and the NHS and railway will be pushed more towards privatisation (a lot of speculation that is what the Tories want), also strikes is a fundamental for democracy.\nSo yeah not much about Brexit, more about our government what can't admit they have fucked up over the course of years and refuse to accept they are wrong, they are doing the same around not speaking with the EU and trying to destroy every EU law even when every single economic / human rights adviser as warned against , they believe if they make a u-turn they will be destroyed what is likely true, they are just trying to cling to power as long as they can at this point.", ">\n\n\nthese laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\"\n\nSmooth brain move: make it illegal to endanger the patients, and thus any strike would endanger them. If you strike, your license is revoked. Worry because numbers studying the field immediately crater.", ">\n\nRoughly how it is in Canada. Nurses can't strike so their union has to get creative with how it negotiates.", ">\n\nAnd now Canada has such a huge shortage of medical workers that my friends in Canada are on years-long waiting lists to be treated for debilitating conditions. Shocking!", ">\n\nYeah there's a lot to be fixed. \nThe shift in the labour market is creating a lot of problems and governments don't want to pay more to keep the staff they have. That coupled with the boomers moving to retirement and beyond will provide for a stressful next decade.", ">\n\nThis is nice and all, but what are the chances of this actually doing something? The Tories hold all the cards, their entire strategy is causing disasters for political points and they're going to be out in a few years, so they haven't much reason to try to placate the voters. I'm finding it hard to be positive about this strike.", ">\n\nI've been out on NHS picket lines, the amount of public support for workers is insane, I've never seen anything like it, even police are beeping as they go past. Even the relatively wealthy retired people I spend quite a lot of time working for have had enough. They are the ones who need most of the care and can't get it.\nHaving said that the only way I can see this ending is in something close to a general strike to force an election.", ">\n\nThe end will only come when economic conditions improve rather than with an election - inflation has historically driven strikes even under Labour (the strikes of the late 1970s being the most famous example). That party might have more constructive talks with the unions but talk only goes so far.\nUnfortunately a lot of the inflation is driven by things that have already been done. Low interest rates inflated the housing market until it could no longer absorb new money, Brexit has increased the price of trade, the Russian invasion of Ukraine has been destructive to European and global supply chains, and most fundamentally the UK working age population is no longer growing while the retired population is. So there's a lot of things holding up demand and not much supporting supply.", ">\n\nThe country will only improve when the people running it have a plan and desire to make things better, the current government is in a zombie parasite mode, it's only plan is to suck as much wealth out as possible before it dies.\nEvery day without a new government that actually governs is extending the time it will take to recover.", ">\n\nI would broadly agree, though the first couple of years post-election will probably see the most unpopular/painful decisions needed for the recovery to be made.\nPolitically, they will have a choice of focusing on their core vote or maintaining the margins - the Conservatives have tried the former but Labour seems to be set on the latter, and so far this is working electorally.", ">\n\nIt's not going to be easy but once there are people in charge that actually want to do the job they can start getting to grips with the huge inefficiencies that have creapt in over years of a void in management and planning that has lead to staff firefighting day to day across the public services. \nWe need ministers and departments that want to run services for the public rather than ones who believe that public services are some kind of cancer.", ">\n\nHaving someone who gives a shit definitely helps a department. The strain they're all going to face is the number of pensioners increases by something like 2.5 million while the number of workers stays approximately flat - that will balloon the Pension budget and pile pressure on Health and Social Care even under ideal conditions." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af.", ">\n\nObligatory fuck the Tory Parasite Party", ">\n\nThey’ll just bring in workers from the EU! Oh wait….", ">\n\ncheering for you guys from the states 🤜", ">\n\nWhen are we doin this in US?", ">\n\nGodspeed to these people.", ">\n\nCan't wait to see how the government tries to blame this on the people 'not wanting to work'.", ">\n\nGood luck to them. Let’s do the same here.", ">\n\nLargest strike - so far! \nCan’t wait for this to blow over and start getting those Brexit benefits. \nAny second now…", ">\n\nSOLIDARITY FOREVER INNIT", ">\n\nBrexit is the gift that keeps on giving.", ">\n\nThis isn't down to Brexit, this is more the government refusing to actually offer anything significant to the people who are protesting.\nFor example the NHS nurses have not seen a pay rise in line with inflation (or above) since 2010, the nurses at the beginning of this said they would not strike if the goverment would actually attend a meeting, the government didn't attend what started the strikes and now the nurses aren't going to stop, railworkers are more concerned about their employment conditions (I have family who work in the rail network and this is what they are telling me) but the news like to make everything about money, the rest are also on strike due to pay where they haven't seen much money invested into these sectors.\nThe Tories haven't put any significant investments into the public sector for years, they claim they will every year they got voted in and never did, these strikes have been a long time coming way before brexit.\nThe government instead of resolving these strikes through negotiations they are trying to pass laws where the government can decide the minimum service levels, in their words \"these laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\" what is absolutely idiotic because if that law was enacted the strikers would simply quit and the NHS and railway will be pushed more towards privatisation (a lot of speculation that is what the Tories want), also strikes is a fundamental for democracy.\nSo yeah not much about Brexit, more about our government what can't admit they have fucked up over the course of years and refuse to accept they are wrong, they are doing the same around not speaking with the EU and trying to destroy every EU law even when every single economic / human rights adviser as warned against , they believe if they make a u-turn they will be destroyed what is likely true, they are just trying to cling to power as long as they can at this point.", ">\n\n\nthese laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\"\n\nSmooth brain move: make it illegal to endanger the patients, and thus any strike would endanger them. If you strike, your license is revoked. Worry because numbers studying the field immediately crater.", ">\n\nRoughly how it is in Canada. Nurses can't strike so their union has to get creative with how it negotiates.", ">\n\nAnd now Canada has such a huge shortage of medical workers that my friends in Canada are on years-long waiting lists to be treated for debilitating conditions. Shocking!", ">\n\nYeah there's a lot to be fixed. \nThe shift in the labour market is creating a lot of problems and governments don't want to pay more to keep the staff they have. That coupled with the boomers moving to retirement and beyond will provide for a stressful next decade.", ">\n\nThis is nice and all, but what are the chances of this actually doing something? The Tories hold all the cards, their entire strategy is causing disasters for political points and they're going to be out in a few years, so they haven't much reason to try to placate the voters. I'm finding it hard to be positive about this strike.", ">\n\nI've been out on NHS picket lines, the amount of public support for workers is insane, I've never seen anything like it, even police are beeping as they go past. Even the relatively wealthy retired people I spend quite a lot of time working for have had enough. They are the ones who need most of the care and can't get it.\nHaving said that the only way I can see this ending is in something close to a general strike to force an election.", ">\n\nThe end will only come when economic conditions improve rather than with an election - inflation has historically driven strikes even under Labour (the strikes of the late 1970s being the most famous example). That party might have more constructive talks with the unions but talk only goes so far.\nUnfortunately a lot of the inflation is driven by things that have already been done. Low interest rates inflated the housing market until it could no longer absorb new money, Brexit has increased the price of trade, the Russian invasion of Ukraine has been destructive to European and global supply chains, and most fundamentally the UK working age population is no longer growing while the retired population is. So there's a lot of things holding up demand and not much supporting supply.", ">\n\nThe country will only improve when the people running it have a plan and desire to make things better, the current government is in a zombie parasite mode, it's only plan is to suck as much wealth out as possible before it dies.\nEvery day without a new government that actually governs is extending the time it will take to recover.", ">\n\nI would broadly agree, though the first couple of years post-election will probably see the most unpopular/painful decisions needed for the recovery to be made.\nPolitically, they will have a choice of focusing on their core vote or maintaining the margins - the Conservatives have tried the former but Labour seems to be set on the latter, and so far this is working electorally.", ">\n\nIt's not going to be easy but once there are people in charge that actually want to do the job they can start getting to grips with the huge inefficiencies that have creapt in over years of a void in management and planning that has lead to staff firefighting day to day across the public services. \nWe need ministers and departments that want to run services for the public rather than ones who believe that public services are some kind of cancer.", ">\n\nHaving someone who gives a shit definitely helps a department. The strain they're all going to face is the number of pensioners increases by something like 2.5 million while the number of workers stays approximately flat - that will balloon the Pension budget and pile pressure on Health and Social Care even under ideal conditions.", ">\n\nHard to have a lot of leverage in a shrinking economy. GDP has just barely returned to levels originally seen in 2005/2006." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af.", ">\n\nObligatory fuck the Tory Parasite Party", ">\n\nThey’ll just bring in workers from the EU! Oh wait….", ">\n\ncheering for you guys from the states 🤜", ">\n\nWhen are we doin this in US?", ">\n\nGodspeed to these people.", ">\n\nCan't wait to see how the government tries to blame this on the people 'not wanting to work'.", ">\n\nGood luck to them. Let’s do the same here.", ">\n\nLargest strike - so far! \nCan’t wait for this to blow over and start getting those Brexit benefits. \nAny second now…", ">\n\nSOLIDARITY FOREVER INNIT", ">\n\nBrexit is the gift that keeps on giving.", ">\n\nThis isn't down to Brexit, this is more the government refusing to actually offer anything significant to the people who are protesting.\nFor example the NHS nurses have not seen a pay rise in line with inflation (or above) since 2010, the nurses at the beginning of this said they would not strike if the goverment would actually attend a meeting, the government didn't attend what started the strikes and now the nurses aren't going to stop, railworkers are more concerned about their employment conditions (I have family who work in the rail network and this is what they are telling me) but the news like to make everything about money, the rest are also on strike due to pay where they haven't seen much money invested into these sectors.\nThe Tories haven't put any significant investments into the public sector for years, they claim they will every year they got voted in and never did, these strikes have been a long time coming way before brexit.\nThe government instead of resolving these strikes through negotiations they are trying to pass laws where the government can decide the minimum service levels, in their words \"these laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\" what is absolutely idiotic because if that law was enacted the strikers would simply quit and the NHS and railway will be pushed more towards privatisation (a lot of speculation that is what the Tories want), also strikes is a fundamental for democracy.\nSo yeah not much about Brexit, more about our government what can't admit they have fucked up over the course of years and refuse to accept they are wrong, they are doing the same around not speaking with the EU and trying to destroy every EU law even when every single economic / human rights adviser as warned against , they believe if they make a u-turn they will be destroyed what is likely true, they are just trying to cling to power as long as they can at this point.", ">\n\n\nthese laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\"\n\nSmooth brain move: make it illegal to endanger the patients, and thus any strike would endanger them. If you strike, your license is revoked. Worry because numbers studying the field immediately crater.", ">\n\nRoughly how it is in Canada. Nurses can't strike so their union has to get creative with how it negotiates.", ">\n\nAnd now Canada has such a huge shortage of medical workers that my friends in Canada are on years-long waiting lists to be treated for debilitating conditions. Shocking!", ">\n\nYeah there's a lot to be fixed. \nThe shift in the labour market is creating a lot of problems and governments don't want to pay more to keep the staff they have. That coupled with the boomers moving to retirement and beyond will provide for a stressful next decade.", ">\n\nThis is nice and all, but what are the chances of this actually doing something? The Tories hold all the cards, their entire strategy is causing disasters for political points and they're going to be out in a few years, so they haven't much reason to try to placate the voters. I'm finding it hard to be positive about this strike.", ">\n\nI've been out on NHS picket lines, the amount of public support for workers is insane, I've never seen anything like it, even police are beeping as they go past. Even the relatively wealthy retired people I spend quite a lot of time working for have had enough. They are the ones who need most of the care and can't get it.\nHaving said that the only way I can see this ending is in something close to a general strike to force an election.", ">\n\nThe end will only come when economic conditions improve rather than with an election - inflation has historically driven strikes even under Labour (the strikes of the late 1970s being the most famous example). That party might have more constructive talks with the unions but talk only goes so far.\nUnfortunately a lot of the inflation is driven by things that have already been done. Low interest rates inflated the housing market until it could no longer absorb new money, Brexit has increased the price of trade, the Russian invasion of Ukraine has been destructive to European and global supply chains, and most fundamentally the UK working age population is no longer growing while the retired population is. So there's a lot of things holding up demand and not much supporting supply.", ">\n\nThe country will only improve when the people running it have a plan and desire to make things better, the current government is in a zombie parasite mode, it's only plan is to suck as much wealth out as possible before it dies.\nEvery day without a new government that actually governs is extending the time it will take to recover.", ">\n\nI would broadly agree, though the first couple of years post-election will probably see the most unpopular/painful decisions needed for the recovery to be made.\nPolitically, they will have a choice of focusing on their core vote or maintaining the margins - the Conservatives have tried the former but Labour seems to be set on the latter, and so far this is working electorally.", ">\n\nIt's not going to be easy but once there are people in charge that actually want to do the job they can start getting to grips with the huge inefficiencies that have creapt in over years of a void in management and planning that has lead to staff firefighting day to day across the public services. \nWe need ministers and departments that want to run services for the public rather than ones who believe that public services are some kind of cancer.", ">\n\nHaving someone who gives a shit definitely helps a department. The strain they're all going to face is the number of pensioners increases by something like 2.5 million while the number of workers stays approximately flat - that will balloon the Pension budget and pile pressure on Health and Social Care even under ideal conditions.", ">\n\nHard to have a lot of leverage in a shrinking economy. GDP has just barely returned to levels originally seen in 2005/2006.", ">\n\nUnemployment in the UK is under 4% and many of these jobs require significant education. They absolutely have leverage." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af.", ">\n\nObligatory fuck the Tory Parasite Party", ">\n\nThey’ll just bring in workers from the EU! Oh wait….", ">\n\ncheering for you guys from the states 🤜", ">\n\nWhen are we doin this in US?", ">\n\nGodspeed to these people.", ">\n\nCan't wait to see how the government tries to blame this on the people 'not wanting to work'.", ">\n\nGood luck to them. Let’s do the same here.", ">\n\nLargest strike - so far! \nCan’t wait for this to blow over and start getting those Brexit benefits. \nAny second now…", ">\n\nSOLIDARITY FOREVER INNIT", ">\n\nBrexit is the gift that keeps on giving.", ">\n\nThis isn't down to Brexit, this is more the government refusing to actually offer anything significant to the people who are protesting.\nFor example the NHS nurses have not seen a pay rise in line with inflation (or above) since 2010, the nurses at the beginning of this said they would not strike if the goverment would actually attend a meeting, the government didn't attend what started the strikes and now the nurses aren't going to stop, railworkers are more concerned about their employment conditions (I have family who work in the rail network and this is what they are telling me) but the news like to make everything about money, the rest are also on strike due to pay where they haven't seen much money invested into these sectors.\nThe Tories haven't put any significant investments into the public sector for years, they claim they will every year they got voted in and never did, these strikes have been a long time coming way before brexit.\nThe government instead of resolving these strikes through negotiations they are trying to pass laws where the government can decide the minimum service levels, in their words \"these laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\" what is absolutely idiotic because if that law was enacted the strikers would simply quit and the NHS and railway will be pushed more towards privatisation (a lot of speculation that is what the Tories want), also strikes is a fundamental for democracy.\nSo yeah not much about Brexit, more about our government what can't admit they have fucked up over the course of years and refuse to accept they are wrong, they are doing the same around not speaking with the EU and trying to destroy every EU law even when every single economic / human rights adviser as warned against , they believe if they make a u-turn they will be destroyed what is likely true, they are just trying to cling to power as long as they can at this point.", ">\n\n\nthese laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\"\n\nSmooth brain move: make it illegal to endanger the patients, and thus any strike would endanger them. If you strike, your license is revoked. Worry because numbers studying the field immediately crater.", ">\n\nRoughly how it is in Canada. Nurses can't strike so their union has to get creative with how it negotiates.", ">\n\nAnd now Canada has such a huge shortage of medical workers that my friends in Canada are on years-long waiting lists to be treated for debilitating conditions. Shocking!", ">\n\nYeah there's a lot to be fixed. \nThe shift in the labour market is creating a lot of problems and governments don't want to pay more to keep the staff they have. That coupled with the boomers moving to retirement and beyond will provide for a stressful next decade.", ">\n\nThis is nice and all, but what are the chances of this actually doing something? The Tories hold all the cards, their entire strategy is causing disasters for political points and they're going to be out in a few years, so they haven't much reason to try to placate the voters. I'm finding it hard to be positive about this strike.", ">\n\nI've been out on NHS picket lines, the amount of public support for workers is insane, I've never seen anything like it, even police are beeping as they go past. Even the relatively wealthy retired people I spend quite a lot of time working for have had enough. They are the ones who need most of the care and can't get it.\nHaving said that the only way I can see this ending is in something close to a general strike to force an election.", ">\n\nThe end will only come when economic conditions improve rather than with an election - inflation has historically driven strikes even under Labour (the strikes of the late 1970s being the most famous example). That party might have more constructive talks with the unions but talk only goes so far.\nUnfortunately a lot of the inflation is driven by things that have already been done. Low interest rates inflated the housing market until it could no longer absorb new money, Brexit has increased the price of trade, the Russian invasion of Ukraine has been destructive to European and global supply chains, and most fundamentally the UK working age population is no longer growing while the retired population is. So there's a lot of things holding up demand and not much supporting supply.", ">\n\nThe country will only improve when the people running it have a plan and desire to make things better, the current government is in a zombie parasite mode, it's only plan is to suck as much wealth out as possible before it dies.\nEvery day without a new government that actually governs is extending the time it will take to recover.", ">\n\nI would broadly agree, though the first couple of years post-election will probably see the most unpopular/painful decisions needed for the recovery to be made.\nPolitically, they will have a choice of focusing on their core vote or maintaining the margins - the Conservatives have tried the former but Labour seems to be set on the latter, and so far this is working electorally.", ">\n\nIt's not going to be easy but once there are people in charge that actually want to do the job they can start getting to grips with the huge inefficiencies that have creapt in over years of a void in management and planning that has lead to staff firefighting day to day across the public services. \nWe need ministers and departments that want to run services for the public rather than ones who believe that public services are some kind of cancer.", ">\n\nHaving someone who gives a shit definitely helps a department. The strain they're all going to face is the number of pensioners increases by something like 2.5 million while the number of workers stays approximately flat - that will balloon the Pension budget and pile pressure on Health and Social Care even under ideal conditions.", ">\n\nHard to have a lot of leverage in a shrinking economy. GDP has just barely returned to levels originally seen in 2005/2006.", ">\n\nUnemployment in the UK is under 4% and many of these jobs require significant education. They absolutely have leverage.", ">\n\nI doubt they expected COVID-19 to happen right after Brexit. They had this \"plan\" that probably wouldn't have only partially worked but then the entire world stood still and then once things got moving again, the world faced extreme supply chain issues.\nOut of world wars and global depressions, they literally couldn't have picked a worse time in modern history. I'm sure EU doesn't mind it either.. suddenly people wanting to leave arent wanting to anymore.\nI suspect UK will request membership again, EU will toy with them a bit and then ultimately they'll be back in. It's like France with NATO, they left, thought \"um, why did we do this again?\" and then re-entered.\nThis is why you should always think with one brain and not the other because the re-entering part becomes akward AF. \"I thought you didn't want me and now you do? wtf James\"\nEdit: France never fully left NATO, only a partial pullout, my bad." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af.", ">\n\nObligatory fuck the Tory Parasite Party", ">\n\nThey’ll just bring in workers from the EU! Oh wait….", ">\n\ncheering for you guys from the states 🤜", ">\n\nWhen are we doin this in US?", ">\n\nGodspeed to these people.", ">\n\nCan't wait to see how the government tries to blame this on the people 'not wanting to work'.", ">\n\nGood luck to them. Let’s do the same here.", ">\n\nLargest strike - so far! \nCan’t wait for this to blow over and start getting those Brexit benefits. \nAny second now…", ">\n\nSOLIDARITY FOREVER INNIT", ">\n\nBrexit is the gift that keeps on giving.", ">\n\nThis isn't down to Brexit, this is more the government refusing to actually offer anything significant to the people who are protesting.\nFor example the NHS nurses have not seen a pay rise in line with inflation (or above) since 2010, the nurses at the beginning of this said they would not strike if the goverment would actually attend a meeting, the government didn't attend what started the strikes and now the nurses aren't going to stop, railworkers are more concerned about their employment conditions (I have family who work in the rail network and this is what they are telling me) but the news like to make everything about money, the rest are also on strike due to pay where they haven't seen much money invested into these sectors.\nThe Tories haven't put any significant investments into the public sector for years, they claim they will every year they got voted in and never did, these strikes have been a long time coming way before brexit.\nThe government instead of resolving these strikes through negotiations they are trying to pass laws where the government can decide the minimum service levels, in their words \"these laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\" what is absolutely idiotic because if that law was enacted the strikers would simply quit and the NHS and railway will be pushed more towards privatisation (a lot of speculation that is what the Tories want), also strikes is a fundamental for democracy.\nSo yeah not much about Brexit, more about our government what can't admit they have fucked up over the course of years and refuse to accept they are wrong, they are doing the same around not speaking with the EU and trying to destroy every EU law even when every single economic / human rights adviser as warned against , they believe if they make a u-turn they will be destroyed what is likely true, they are just trying to cling to power as long as they can at this point.", ">\n\n\nthese laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\"\n\nSmooth brain move: make it illegal to endanger the patients, and thus any strike would endanger them. If you strike, your license is revoked. Worry because numbers studying the field immediately crater.", ">\n\nRoughly how it is in Canada. Nurses can't strike so their union has to get creative with how it negotiates.", ">\n\nAnd now Canada has such a huge shortage of medical workers that my friends in Canada are on years-long waiting lists to be treated for debilitating conditions. Shocking!", ">\n\nYeah there's a lot to be fixed. \nThe shift in the labour market is creating a lot of problems and governments don't want to pay more to keep the staff they have. That coupled with the boomers moving to retirement and beyond will provide for a stressful next decade.", ">\n\nThis is nice and all, but what are the chances of this actually doing something? The Tories hold all the cards, their entire strategy is causing disasters for political points and they're going to be out in a few years, so they haven't much reason to try to placate the voters. I'm finding it hard to be positive about this strike.", ">\n\nI've been out on NHS picket lines, the amount of public support for workers is insane, I've never seen anything like it, even police are beeping as they go past. Even the relatively wealthy retired people I spend quite a lot of time working for have had enough. They are the ones who need most of the care and can't get it.\nHaving said that the only way I can see this ending is in something close to a general strike to force an election.", ">\n\nThe end will only come when economic conditions improve rather than with an election - inflation has historically driven strikes even under Labour (the strikes of the late 1970s being the most famous example). That party might have more constructive talks with the unions but talk only goes so far.\nUnfortunately a lot of the inflation is driven by things that have already been done. Low interest rates inflated the housing market until it could no longer absorb new money, Brexit has increased the price of trade, the Russian invasion of Ukraine has been destructive to European and global supply chains, and most fundamentally the UK working age population is no longer growing while the retired population is. So there's a lot of things holding up demand and not much supporting supply.", ">\n\nThe country will only improve when the people running it have a plan and desire to make things better, the current government is in a zombie parasite mode, it's only plan is to suck as much wealth out as possible before it dies.\nEvery day without a new government that actually governs is extending the time it will take to recover.", ">\n\nI would broadly agree, though the first couple of years post-election will probably see the most unpopular/painful decisions needed for the recovery to be made.\nPolitically, they will have a choice of focusing on their core vote or maintaining the margins - the Conservatives have tried the former but Labour seems to be set on the latter, and so far this is working electorally.", ">\n\nIt's not going to be easy but once there are people in charge that actually want to do the job they can start getting to grips with the huge inefficiencies that have creapt in over years of a void in management and planning that has lead to staff firefighting day to day across the public services. \nWe need ministers and departments that want to run services for the public rather than ones who believe that public services are some kind of cancer.", ">\n\nHaving someone who gives a shit definitely helps a department. The strain they're all going to face is the number of pensioners increases by something like 2.5 million while the number of workers stays approximately flat - that will balloon the Pension budget and pile pressure on Health and Social Care even under ideal conditions.", ">\n\nHard to have a lot of leverage in a shrinking economy. GDP has just barely returned to levels originally seen in 2005/2006.", ">\n\nUnemployment in the UK is under 4% and many of these jobs require significant education. They absolutely have leverage.", ">\n\nI doubt they expected COVID-19 to happen right after Brexit. They had this \"plan\" that probably wouldn't have only partially worked but then the entire world stood still and then once things got moving again, the world faced extreme supply chain issues.\nOut of world wars and global depressions, they literally couldn't have picked a worse time in modern history. I'm sure EU doesn't mind it either.. suddenly people wanting to leave arent wanting to anymore.\nI suspect UK will request membership again, EU will toy with them a bit and then ultimately they'll be back in. It's like France with NATO, they left, thought \"um, why did we do this again?\" and then re-entered.\nThis is why you should always think with one brain and not the other because the re-entering part becomes akward AF. \"I thought you didn't want me and now you do? wtf James\"\nEdit: France never fully left NATO, only a partial pullout, my bad.", ">\n\n\nI suspect UK will request membership again\n\nIt'll never happen.\nUk barely wanted to be in the EU with all the opt outs, special clauses etc. Theres no chance they are accepting full freedom of movement, the euro etc" ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af.", ">\n\nObligatory fuck the Tory Parasite Party", ">\n\nThey’ll just bring in workers from the EU! Oh wait….", ">\n\ncheering for you guys from the states 🤜", ">\n\nWhen are we doin this in US?", ">\n\nGodspeed to these people.", ">\n\nCan't wait to see how the government tries to blame this on the people 'not wanting to work'.", ">\n\nGood luck to them. Let’s do the same here.", ">\n\nLargest strike - so far! \nCan’t wait for this to blow over and start getting those Brexit benefits. \nAny second now…", ">\n\nSOLIDARITY FOREVER INNIT", ">\n\nBrexit is the gift that keeps on giving.", ">\n\nThis isn't down to Brexit, this is more the government refusing to actually offer anything significant to the people who are protesting.\nFor example the NHS nurses have not seen a pay rise in line with inflation (or above) since 2010, the nurses at the beginning of this said they would not strike if the goverment would actually attend a meeting, the government didn't attend what started the strikes and now the nurses aren't going to stop, railworkers are more concerned about their employment conditions (I have family who work in the rail network and this is what they are telling me) but the news like to make everything about money, the rest are also on strike due to pay where they haven't seen much money invested into these sectors.\nThe Tories haven't put any significant investments into the public sector for years, they claim they will every year they got voted in and never did, these strikes have been a long time coming way before brexit.\nThe government instead of resolving these strikes through negotiations they are trying to pass laws where the government can decide the minimum service levels, in their words \"these laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\" what is absolutely idiotic because if that law was enacted the strikers would simply quit and the NHS and railway will be pushed more towards privatisation (a lot of speculation that is what the Tories want), also strikes is a fundamental for democracy.\nSo yeah not much about Brexit, more about our government what can't admit they have fucked up over the course of years and refuse to accept they are wrong, they are doing the same around not speaking with the EU and trying to destroy every EU law even when every single economic / human rights adviser as warned against , they believe if they make a u-turn they will be destroyed what is likely true, they are just trying to cling to power as long as they can at this point.", ">\n\n\nthese laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\"\n\nSmooth brain move: make it illegal to endanger the patients, and thus any strike would endanger them. If you strike, your license is revoked. Worry because numbers studying the field immediately crater.", ">\n\nRoughly how it is in Canada. Nurses can't strike so their union has to get creative with how it negotiates.", ">\n\nAnd now Canada has such a huge shortage of medical workers that my friends in Canada are on years-long waiting lists to be treated for debilitating conditions. Shocking!", ">\n\nYeah there's a lot to be fixed. \nThe shift in the labour market is creating a lot of problems and governments don't want to pay more to keep the staff they have. That coupled with the boomers moving to retirement and beyond will provide for a stressful next decade.", ">\n\nThis is nice and all, but what are the chances of this actually doing something? The Tories hold all the cards, their entire strategy is causing disasters for political points and they're going to be out in a few years, so they haven't much reason to try to placate the voters. I'm finding it hard to be positive about this strike.", ">\n\nI've been out on NHS picket lines, the amount of public support for workers is insane, I've never seen anything like it, even police are beeping as they go past. Even the relatively wealthy retired people I spend quite a lot of time working for have had enough. They are the ones who need most of the care and can't get it.\nHaving said that the only way I can see this ending is in something close to a general strike to force an election.", ">\n\nThe end will only come when economic conditions improve rather than with an election - inflation has historically driven strikes even under Labour (the strikes of the late 1970s being the most famous example). That party might have more constructive talks with the unions but talk only goes so far.\nUnfortunately a lot of the inflation is driven by things that have already been done. Low interest rates inflated the housing market until it could no longer absorb new money, Brexit has increased the price of trade, the Russian invasion of Ukraine has been destructive to European and global supply chains, and most fundamentally the UK working age population is no longer growing while the retired population is. So there's a lot of things holding up demand and not much supporting supply.", ">\n\nThe country will only improve when the people running it have a plan and desire to make things better, the current government is in a zombie parasite mode, it's only plan is to suck as much wealth out as possible before it dies.\nEvery day without a new government that actually governs is extending the time it will take to recover.", ">\n\nI would broadly agree, though the first couple of years post-election will probably see the most unpopular/painful decisions needed for the recovery to be made.\nPolitically, they will have a choice of focusing on their core vote or maintaining the margins - the Conservatives have tried the former but Labour seems to be set on the latter, and so far this is working electorally.", ">\n\nIt's not going to be easy but once there are people in charge that actually want to do the job they can start getting to grips with the huge inefficiencies that have creapt in over years of a void in management and planning that has lead to staff firefighting day to day across the public services. \nWe need ministers and departments that want to run services for the public rather than ones who believe that public services are some kind of cancer.", ">\n\nHaving someone who gives a shit definitely helps a department. The strain they're all going to face is the number of pensioners increases by something like 2.5 million while the number of workers stays approximately flat - that will balloon the Pension budget and pile pressure on Health and Social Care even under ideal conditions.", ">\n\nHard to have a lot of leverage in a shrinking economy. GDP has just barely returned to levels originally seen in 2005/2006.", ">\n\nUnemployment in the UK is under 4% and many of these jobs require significant education. They absolutely have leverage.", ">\n\nI doubt they expected COVID-19 to happen right after Brexit. They had this \"plan\" that probably wouldn't have only partially worked but then the entire world stood still and then once things got moving again, the world faced extreme supply chain issues.\nOut of world wars and global depressions, they literally couldn't have picked a worse time in modern history. I'm sure EU doesn't mind it either.. suddenly people wanting to leave arent wanting to anymore.\nI suspect UK will request membership again, EU will toy with them a bit and then ultimately they'll be back in. It's like France with NATO, they left, thought \"um, why did we do this again?\" and then re-entered.\nThis is why you should always think with one brain and not the other because the re-entering part becomes akward AF. \"I thought you didn't want me and now you do? wtf James\"\nEdit: France never fully left NATO, only a partial pullout, my bad.", ">\n\n\nI suspect UK will request membership again\n\nIt'll never happen.\nUk barely wanted to be in the EU with all the opt outs, special clauses etc. Theres no chance they are accepting full freedom of movement, the euro etc", ">\n\nFrance: \"Zes are rookie numbers. You have to, how do you say, pump zose numbers up\"" ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af.", ">\n\nObligatory fuck the Tory Parasite Party", ">\n\nThey’ll just bring in workers from the EU! Oh wait….", ">\n\ncheering for you guys from the states 🤜", ">\n\nWhen are we doin this in US?", ">\n\nGodspeed to these people.", ">\n\nCan't wait to see how the government tries to blame this on the people 'not wanting to work'.", ">\n\nGood luck to them. Let’s do the same here.", ">\n\nLargest strike - so far! \nCan’t wait for this to blow over and start getting those Brexit benefits. \nAny second now…", ">\n\nSOLIDARITY FOREVER INNIT", ">\n\nBrexit is the gift that keeps on giving.", ">\n\nThis isn't down to Brexit, this is more the government refusing to actually offer anything significant to the people who are protesting.\nFor example the NHS nurses have not seen a pay rise in line with inflation (or above) since 2010, the nurses at the beginning of this said they would not strike if the goverment would actually attend a meeting, the government didn't attend what started the strikes and now the nurses aren't going to stop, railworkers are more concerned about their employment conditions (I have family who work in the rail network and this is what they are telling me) but the news like to make everything about money, the rest are also on strike due to pay where they haven't seen much money invested into these sectors.\nThe Tories haven't put any significant investments into the public sector for years, they claim they will every year they got voted in and never did, these strikes have been a long time coming way before brexit.\nThe government instead of resolving these strikes through negotiations they are trying to pass laws where the government can decide the minimum service levels, in their words \"these laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\" what is absolutely idiotic because if that law was enacted the strikers would simply quit and the NHS and railway will be pushed more towards privatisation (a lot of speculation that is what the Tories want), also strikes is a fundamental for democracy.\nSo yeah not much about Brexit, more about our government what can't admit they have fucked up over the course of years and refuse to accept they are wrong, they are doing the same around not speaking with the EU and trying to destroy every EU law even when every single economic / human rights adviser as warned against , they believe if they make a u-turn they will be destroyed what is likely true, they are just trying to cling to power as long as they can at this point.", ">\n\n\nthese laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\"\n\nSmooth brain move: make it illegal to endanger the patients, and thus any strike would endanger them. If you strike, your license is revoked. Worry because numbers studying the field immediately crater.", ">\n\nRoughly how it is in Canada. Nurses can't strike so their union has to get creative with how it negotiates.", ">\n\nAnd now Canada has such a huge shortage of medical workers that my friends in Canada are on years-long waiting lists to be treated for debilitating conditions. Shocking!", ">\n\nYeah there's a lot to be fixed. \nThe shift in the labour market is creating a lot of problems and governments don't want to pay more to keep the staff they have. That coupled with the boomers moving to retirement and beyond will provide for a stressful next decade.", ">\n\nThis is nice and all, but what are the chances of this actually doing something? The Tories hold all the cards, their entire strategy is causing disasters for political points and they're going to be out in a few years, so they haven't much reason to try to placate the voters. I'm finding it hard to be positive about this strike.", ">\n\nI've been out on NHS picket lines, the amount of public support for workers is insane, I've never seen anything like it, even police are beeping as they go past. Even the relatively wealthy retired people I spend quite a lot of time working for have had enough. They are the ones who need most of the care and can't get it.\nHaving said that the only way I can see this ending is in something close to a general strike to force an election.", ">\n\nThe end will only come when economic conditions improve rather than with an election - inflation has historically driven strikes even under Labour (the strikes of the late 1970s being the most famous example). That party might have more constructive talks with the unions but talk only goes so far.\nUnfortunately a lot of the inflation is driven by things that have already been done. Low interest rates inflated the housing market until it could no longer absorb new money, Brexit has increased the price of trade, the Russian invasion of Ukraine has been destructive to European and global supply chains, and most fundamentally the UK working age population is no longer growing while the retired population is. So there's a lot of things holding up demand and not much supporting supply.", ">\n\nThe country will only improve when the people running it have a plan and desire to make things better, the current government is in a zombie parasite mode, it's only plan is to suck as much wealth out as possible before it dies.\nEvery day without a new government that actually governs is extending the time it will take to recover.", ">\n\nI would broadly agree, though the first couple of years post-election will probably see the most unpopular/painful decisions needed for the recovery to be made.\nPolitically, they will have a choice of focusing on their core vote or maintaining the margins - the Conservatives have tried the former but Labour seems to be set on the latter, and so far this is working electorally.", ">\n\nIt's not going to be easy but once there are people in charge that actually want to do the job they can start getting to grips with the huge inefficiencies that have creapt in over years of a void in management and planning that has lead to staff firefighting day to day across the public services. \nWe need ministers and departments that want to run services for the public rather than ones who believe that public services are some kind of cancer.", ">\n\nHaving someone who gives a shit definitely helps a department. The strain they're all going to face is the number of pensioners increases by something like 2.5 million while the number of workers stays approximately flat - that will balloon the Pension budget and pile pressure on Health and Social Care even under ideal conditions.", ">\n\nHard to have a lot of leverage in a shrinking economy. GDP has just barely returned to levels originally seen in 2005/2006.", ">\n\nUnemployment in the UK is under 4% and many of these jobs require significant education. They absolutely have leverage.", ">\n\nI doubt they expected COVID-19 to happen right after Brexit. They had this \"plan\" that probably wouldn't have only partially worked but then the entire world stood still and then once things got moving again, the world faced extreme supply chain issues.\nOut of world wars and global depressions, they literally couldn't have picked a worse time in modern history. I'm sure EU doesn't mind it either.. suddenly people wanting to leave arent wanting to anymore.\nI suspect UK will request membership again, EU will toy with them a bit and then ultimately they'll be back in. It's like France with NATO, they left, thought \"um, why did we do this again?\" and then re-entered.\nThis is why you should always think with one brain and not the other because the re-entering part becomes akward AF. \"I thought you didn't want me and now you do? wtf James\"\nEdit: France never fully left NATO, only a partial pullout, my bad.", ">\n\n\nI suspect UK will request membership again\n\nIt'll never happen.\nUk barely wanted to be in the EU with all the opt outs, special clauses etc. Theres no chance they are accepting full freedom of movement, the euro etc", ">\n\nFrance: \"Zes are rookie numbers. You have to, how do you say, pump zose numbers up\"", ">\n\nSame people voted for brexit, twice, and fucked their own economy..." ]

[ "Aaa. I remember the 70s strikes. Good to see history repeating itself. People get pissed off with everything eventually.", ">\n\nIn Economics I was taught that in the 70s bin men strike was because they'd been given so many pay rises by the Labour government of the day that for the first time ever they could afford to strike.\nThatcher came in, wiped out the money, and they didn't strike for over a decade. They couldn't afford the time off any more.", ">\n\nPartly true, but the ban on secondary picketing and solidarity strikes also had a big effect. Part of the reason why they were so prone to striking in the 60s and 70s was that their absence was extremely visible and very costly. After it was banned, they couldn't cooperate with other trades and strikes in the same way, so their value in labour action dropped.", ">\n\nHow do you make it illegal to strike, or more specifically why would anyone follow that law?\nisn't the \"we out number you,\" civil disobedience the whole point?", ">\n\nIt is illegal for the police, or army, to strike, for example. They follow the law because they don't want to lose their jobs and have other penalties.\nYou make it clear to them when they join the job. \nSolidarity strikes and secondary picketing is when there is no problem with your job whatsoever, but you strike anyway because some other job doesn't pay enough and your mate Gary does that other job. \nIt's kinda' a 'We'll burn it all to the fucking ground, even companys/areas that have done absolutely 100% nothing wrong, IT'S ALL GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU HELP OUT GARY' thing.", ">\n\nSounds like a better world to live in.", ">\n\nUnfortunately, we live in a world where people are intimidated into striking because \"it's illegal.\"\nLike, it's illegal for cops to strike... okay... who is going to enforce that? The cops?", ">\n\nIt's illegal in many countries for police to strike.\nIn Ireland, they worked around this by all calling in sick simultaneously.", ">\n\nThere's also soft strikes where they go to work but don't do anything", ">\n\nAnd for city services there are paying strikes, where people go to work and provide the regular service but charge no fee for it (such as public transit).", ">\n\nYou will see a General Strike before the government get to implement their anti-strike laws (that enable employers to sack employees striking, and enables employers to sue unions that do not follow the rules they haven't even put into writing when passing this law)\nThe law also has a clause in it that enables the government to change it however which way they want without requiring parliamentary scrutiny. \nThe law passed through parliament the other day - tories that don't like it still voted for it anyway - so is now required to get through the Lords before it can be implemented (with the vague wording changed as per the aforementioned clause)\nNot satisfied with costing the nation tens of billions a year with Brexit, more tens of billions in corrupt contracts to their mates and yet more in tax evasion, they've now cost billions more this past year by refusing to talk to any unions. Their own ministers have openly stated that it would have saved money if they had negotiated with the unions. \nThe list of groups that have been on strike/partaken in strike-like actions in the last year:\n\nPostal Workers\nTrain Drivers\nUnderground workers\nRail workers\nBus drivers\nDoctors\nNurses (first time in their history!)\nAmbulance service\nEmergency Services Call Handlers\nFire Brigade\nPolice (not allowed to strike but a few forces have done equivalents in the last year)\nBin men\nBarristers and various court staff\nCivil Service generally\nBorder Force\nDock workers\nTeachers\nCare workers\nAirline workers (attendants etc)\nAirport workers (baggage handlers and others)\nDriving examiners\nUniversity Staff - Lecturers, Librarians, admin staff and cleaners.\nBroadband/Telecoms engineers\nNational Highways staff\nRural Payments Agency\nPhysiotherapists\n\nTruss branded strikers 'militants' - but I think this covers most of society that have access to a union at this point. Even Army bosses made a thinly veiled statement about using them to plug holes when they themselves haven't seen adequate pay rises and face big problems with treatment of personnel, pretty much stating that they would be striking too if they could.\nSo, international viewers, who do you reckon are the problem? This cross-section of society, or the government?", ">\n\nnice at this rate all the essential societal maintenance workers will strike at the same time and the entire british society will collapse", ">\n\nThat is what is called a General Strike.\nAnd it is coming...the Tories have upped the ante with the attack on unions and living standards.\nThey have repeatedly refused to even speak to the unions (indeed, the nurses union pleaded with the PM that if they were to simply come to negotiations, the strike would be called off. The government refused) so if I were the unions, I would be combining now to bring the country to a halt this year.", ">\n\nI could not believe what I was witnessing as I watched the news and the government refused to meet with both the nurses union and the train driver union. And the media did its best, in general, to lay the blame on the unions themselves, and whichever union rep they were speaking to (not \"with\") at that moment in time in particular.\n​\nI hope people find some class solidarity here. Something has to give. Like you said, who is most likely the bad actor here; a varied cross section of society responsible for modern standards and safety, or the common denominator of a wickedly corrupt Tory government?", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nYou could give the union what they ask for. That would stop the strike.", ">\n\nIf the government ministers agreed to actually talk with the unions then that might happen", ">\n\nThat would require not voting in ministers who's entire political ideology is against the very concept of unions. Its like putting a flat earther in charge of NASA and wondering why they've stopped sending rockets up.", ">\n\nI don't think the concept of flat Earth interferes with idea of space exploration though. I mean even if flat, it has to reside somewhere.\nI do see your point, I just had this sudden thought.", ">\n\nTry calculating the reentry trajectory of a ship landing on a flat disk.", ">\n\n\"uh, down obviously\"\n\nsome nimrod, probably", ">\n\nOh right, I forgot atmosphere is a myth", ">\n\nAlso energy is free and fuel is a lie.", ">\n\nif you attached some magnets to henry dircks and wrapped his coffin in a copper coil you could catch some free energy from him spinning in his grave...", ">\n\nThe quote at the end is a gem. The government spokesperson calls on the unions not to strike, conveniently ignoring the fact that the government can end the strike as soon as it wants.", ">\n\nI find it particularly disgusting when the government accuses teachers of not caring about children who've had their education disrupted quite so much. In reality, teachers are striking in large part to secure better funding for schools, which is absolutely necessary to ensure that education is protected in the medium and long term.", ">\n\nYeah people love to bitch about greedy teachers while conveniently forgetting that our working environment is your kids' learning environment.\nIf we're going on strike it's because your kids aren't getting what they need.", ">\n\nIt's because a lot of people consider teachers more of daycare workers than anything else. I'm convinced of it. It is why so many people in my country think they are adequately prepared to homeschool their children compared to people who dedicated specialized higher education and regular continuing education to the task.\n​\n\"Just babysitting.\"\n​\nNow, that may be me projecting my American experience outward. I don't think that is too much of the case, though. I've read plenty of stories of Tories giving teachers the shaft and treating them all as disposable people (but then cry about it when they are in short supply).", ">\n\nI mean, if you even paid teachers as much per hour per child as the average babysitter would get, they would be paid a hell of a lot more already.", ">\n\nthe craziest thing in all of this...a nursing union literally offered to postpone a strike if the Minister spoke with them... he refused to hold a simple conversation... so they've gone on strike. \n​\nThat's how bad it is nowadays", ">\n\n\nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nThat should help with their labor shortage problem", ">\n\nI think they need to be reminded that peaceful striking was the compromise we all agreed to.... the other option was dragging the rich out of their mansion and pummeling them to death on the front lawn.", ">\n\nIt never got to that. The rich called in the military and massacred the workers when it approached that point.", ">\n\nThe French revolution disagrees", ">\n\n\nDemands vary by union but include inflation-beating pay rises, including to redress historic real-terms pay falls; pensions reform; and no cuts in redundancy terms. The NEU says teaching is in “crisis” as staff are driven from the profession and is calling for an above-inflation pay rise. \nProtests will also be over a bill that was passed in the lower house of Parliament on Tuesday which seeks to enforce minimum service levels in some sectors, with some workers able to be fired if they refuse to work when required on strike days.\n\nUnions are the best friend of the working class. Good for them.", ">\n\nNot entirely always true. GOOD unions are the best friend of the working class. \nIn my country, unions are (partly) incentivized/subsidized by helping as much people without a job as possible. This results in some weird situations where they block negotiations, stop progress, etc., do certain things that even the people that they are supposed to represent ask them to kindly act in a more constructive manner.", ">\n\nCollective bargaining is ALWAYS better for workers. If the union isn't doing its job, then the members need to change leadership. If you are in a union and want to see more progress, run for leadership. Unions are not a monolith. They are highly democratic organizations.", ">\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?", ">\n\n\nIs collective bargaining always better for each individual worker, in your eyes? Even high performers who might make more money in an individual bargaining scenario?\n\nI'm not OP, but yes. And it is a bit unethical to consider this scenario. Is it more ethical for an employer to commit wage theft against its lowest performing employees, but not against its highest performing employees?\n​\nOr, to use a less extreme example, higher performance does not correspond with an equally high rise in pay. Employers make their money by paying every single employee significantly less than they create in value. I see this trap all the time, though. Is a 10% raise really worth it for 20% more effort? Should fellow workers go without simply so outliers can maximize things for themselves?\n​\nThe fact is, collective unions (not state-run unions) set pay floors, not ceilings. Employers are free to bargain (if necessary) for the ability to offer individual raises. Any pay ceiling is set by the employer demanding it. It is crazy to consider otherwise when the entire point of a worker-led union is to reclaim more of the value they create. Why would such a union create a limit on how much its own members can be paid unless forced to accept a demand from an employer in exchange for something else that benefits everyone?\n​\nThat is, a union has no benefit in create a pay ceiling. But an employer does. An employer has a huge benefit in implementing a pay ceiling. Especially when they can't keep how much peers earn a secret anymore. Those ceilings already exist without unions.\n​\nEdit: and ceilings already exist in non-unionized corporate jobs. Surely most people reading this, and who've worked in offices, heard of salary grades before. They are de facto pay ceilings, meant to either force you up or out (or, alternatively, lock you into a position where you receive no raises in perpetuity). Each grade is usually split into quartiles, and the higher your quartile, the lower your raises, until you eventually hit zero unless you change roles or employers.\n​\nBecause employers institute caps all on their own.", ">\n\nLess than half of what I hoped for.", ">\n\nA complete shame\n- typed from reddit while working", ">\n\nGovernment:\n\nStriking is illegal!\n\nWorkers:\n\nOk arrest us. Then there will be even fewer people able to work.\n\nIf a government makes striking illegal, and the strikers just call their bluff and hold firm, they can win.", ">\n\n\"Turns out I am sick cough cough\"", ">\n\nNever forget that if you are paying higher prices, you are subsidizing the rich elites. If your wages don’t rise with inflation, you are subsidizing the rich elites.", ">\n\nPlease consider rephrasing 'rich elites' to 'parasitic wealth extractors'.", ">\n\nPlenty of people in this sub are also against the protesters. It's not just the rich. It's cunts in general.", ">\n\nIt’s official. This country is in the worse state it has been in for as long as I can remember. Brexit or not. New leadership is required", ">\n\nThis is at least on par with the worst of the 80s and heading for beating the 70s.\nNot necessarily because it is so day to day bad but because the divide between those affected and those in power is so great and the level of indifference so high.", ">\n\nFood prices at 16% inflation \nNHS in collapse\nMultiple government scandals\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party \nEconomy in collapse \nAnd what is the governments most pressing battle \nTrans people", ">\n\n\nBillions being wasted for a fancy party\n\nWhat is this?", ">\n\nThe King’s coronation in May.", ">\n\nIgnoring OPs rant, with no sources to back up what’s being said… The King already addressed this and won’t have a big ceremony. Events such as this bring in more money to the economy then they cost and not just from tourism but general public spending. \nSo with that in mind, take OPs rant with a pinch of salt.", ">\n\nI promise you people from outside of UK don’t care about your fake king and aren’t going to go see it. I think the problem is that these UK Kardashians are using taxpayer money for such events it’s crazy to me that anyone in the UK are okay with it. Like they are so weird and do nothing but get pampered all their life’s because they won the birth lottery. It’s inanity", ">\n\nI’m no royalist but your lack of understanding how the royal family is funded amuses me and clearly shows your ignorance. \nWhen you know nothing of a topic or that of another countries culture it’s best to steer clear of it and stick to what you know. And in this case; take that advice.", ">\n\nThe French Royal family makes more money than ours and they've been dead a fair while. Fuck them off and charge to walk around their palaces filled with shit they stole from people they exploted. It's 2023 and having a royal family is an embarrassment. £50 spent on this parasites coronation while people are choosing between food or heating for their families is too much.", ">\n\nYou know, I am pretty convinced that the people at the top of government and corporations are complete and utter morons. \nAnd its not because of the baddecusion making and vulture like practices they keep doing.\nIt's because every 5-10 years we keep having moments like this. Where entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. Which could have been prevented had the employers just kept up with cost of living and reasonable conditions. Instead they now have a giant deficit between what is paid and should be paid which is of course even harder to close than just keeping up.", ">\n\n\nWhere entire sectors will take huge financial hits because they are on strike. \n\nTo be honest, I wouldn't be surprised the finances work out pretty well for companies. \nHow many strikes days in in a given year? Is the loss of productivity worse than what they're saving by underpaying workers for years on end?\nThe companies are sat on war chests that allow them to weather the storm in a way that is difficult for beleaguered workers. Maybe the strikes run out of steam and they end up quids in? Maybe they eventually cave - they're probably still no worse off than if they were just paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. \nImmoral? Definitely. Stupid? Probably not.\nAll the more reason to strike. Fuck them.", ">\n\nYeah. Royal Mail pointed out last week that the amount of money they had lost due to strikes so far was about a third of what the pay demands would cost them per year going forwards.\nIt'll take months and months more strikes before they start to impact the companies finances more than the actual pay rises would.", ">\n\nWe should strike against skyrocketing corporate profits in all countries.", ">\n\nThe trouble with strikes is they never escalate. They're like... \"We'll strike for 24 hours and if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours again two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... we'll strike for 24 hours two weeks later. And if you don't give into our demands... \" etc.\nDo what the barristers did. Indefinite, complete and total withdrawal of labour until their demands are met.", ">\n\nThe problem is that’s a potential month going without pay - I think a lot of people working in these professions just wouldn’t have the savings to afford that", ">\n\nThat's usually what unions are there for. Here in germany at least you can join a union and you pay a small monthly fee. Now when the union calls for a strike, they will pay the union members some money for that time.", ">\n\nThe British unions have been so undervalued and underfunded and bled dry that they don't have the reserves to do that.\nThe government is banking on beating these strikes by having deeper pockets than those affected.\nWhat they don't understand is that people will just start leaving these professions in even higher numbers and there won't just be a shortage of teachers or nurses but a complete absence.\nThen they're banking on the fact that the government is made up of people that use private services so don't care.", ">\n\nCompanies are making massive profits while workers are in massive poverty. Capitalism is not working for the people. It's only working for those born in wealth.", ">\n\nProblem is , this is not even capitalism anymore. Workers have no leverage, can't even negotiate... How's it that capitalism?", ">\n\nIt's not. It's feudalism with extra steps. The company town is now the company state", ">\n\nIt's corporationism. Capitalism would allow businesses to die off if they were not run properly but instead they're propped up by governments.", ">\n\nThat’s just the inevitable result of capitalism. \nIt’s absurd to think a totally free market without any government interference is feasible.", ">\n\nEconomic power is also political power, eventually corporations left unckecked would just be the government.", ">\n\nSolidarity from the US!!!\n<3", ">\n\nWatch out, SCOTUS is poised to make unions liable for whatever the company claims it's lost revenue was, essentially removing the right to strike.", ">\n\nThats cause they forgot that a strike was the peaceful compromise. Violence is always an option. Prisons are already close to max capacity, people distrust the PD, just need the right match to set it off.", ">\n\nFuck the Tories.", ">\n\n\n“Of course, the best mitigation would be for union bosses to call off planned strikes, to keep talking and to come to an agreement.”\n\nOf course, of course... please maintain the status quo (i.e., padding your pockets while gutting public services).", ">\n\nNeed this in the US now.", ">\n\nGrind them into pulp, chaps. Workers are on the edge all over the world and we have nearly nothing to lose. Literally.", ">\n\nRespect!", ">\n\nImagine having the gall to pick a fight against nurses and teachers claiming it's thuggery months after wiping 30? Billion from the economy. How many controversies have there been with this government now? The OMF put Russia's Growth ahead of the UK today...what a mess.", ">\n\nUnregulated capitalism is trash.", ">\n\nThe people who make the the country work are unhappy with the people who refuse to give them the tools to do so.\nGood on them. We'll get what we deserve if it takes shutting the country down.", ">\n\nI remember Brexit.", ">\n\nThe headline should add \"the largest strike in the UK in 12 years because fuck the tory scum ruining this nation\"", ">\n\nYou gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.", ">\n\nFunny how the MP's get their pay rises on time", ">\n\nBoy I sure hope Americans don't scoff at the news of both France and Brittan having strikes. We just said \"Fuck you\" to unions with the potential rail strikes and it really hammers home how America will absolutely fuck over the worker in interest of profits. We allow ourselves to be this exploited and its its refreshing to see other countries not allow it, or at least fight it. Here, we seem to bend over and \"yes sir, may I have less\".", ">\n\nYou might have to hold your breath, UK government is on the verge of making strikes illegal via their minimum service levels bill.", ">\n\nGuess they can end up just like us Americans - truthfully powerless. \n\"just get another job\" they say. Oh if it were just THAT easy.", ">\n\n500 000 with a million more on the way\n^^^maybe ^^^^brexit ^^^^^ya ^^^^^^know", ">\n\nBrexit is partially responsible, and it's most likely made the situation worse.\nBut this was coming brexit or not.", ">\n\nWho would have known brexit would have been such a disaster. Someone should have warned them", ">\n\nWonder how many of these people voted in the Tories again..", ">\n\nOn top of all this Bloomberg news came out saying leaving the EU is costing them $100 billion a year… wtf", ">\n\nMe here looking from the US knowing idiots here won’t ever work together to strike en mass like this.", ">\n\nLeft Software Dev job 15+ years experience. 10 years into teaching which I love but man the Tories have totally shafted everyone in public service since I came in. Under inflation pay rises, increased retirement age, hollowing out of whole social system, prick after prick public school politicians and millionaires squeezing everything all the while doing everything they can to make their donors and cronies richer. People need to ask themselves why these douche bags really want to take a salary as an MP when so many of them could clearly earn double or treble in the private sector or already have amassed/inherited money we will never see if our lifetimes. It ain't to make a positive difference for the people that's for sure. Public service my hole. Its all about the power, influence and profile. Grubby af.", ">\n\nObligatory fuck the Tory Parasite Party", ">\n\nThey’ll just bring in workers from the EU! Oh wait….", ">\n\ncheering for you guys from the states 🤜", ">\n\nWhen are we doin this in US?", ">\n\nGodspeed to these people.", ">\n\nCan't wait to see how the government tries to blame this on the people 'not wanting to work'.", ">\n\nGood luck to them. Let’s do the same here.", ">\n\nLargest strike - so far! \nCan’t wait for this to blow over and start getting those Brexit benefits. \nAny second now…", ">\n\nSOLIDARITY FOREVER INNIT", ">\n\nBrexit is the gift that keeps on giving.", ">\n\nThis isn't down to Brexit, this is more the government refusing to actually offer anything significant to the people who are protesting.\nFor example the NHS nurses have not seen a pay rise in line with inflation (or above) since 2010, the nurses at the beginning of this said they would not strike if the goverment would actually attend a meeting, the government didn't attend what started the strikes and now the nurses aren't going to stop, railworkers are more concerned about their employment conditions (I have family who work in the rail network and this is what they are telling me) but the news like to make everything about money, the rest are also on strike due to pay where they haven't seen much money invested into these sectors.\nThe Tories haven't put any significant investments into the public sector for years, they claim they will every year they got voted in and never did, these strikes have been a long time coming way before brexit.\nThe government instead of resolving these strikes through negotiations they are trying to pass laws where the government can decide the minimum service levels, in their words \"these laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\" what is absolutely idiotic because if that law was enacted the strikers would simply quit and the NHS and railway will be pushed more towards privatisation (a lot of speculation that is what the Tories want), also strikes is a fundamental for democracy.\nSo yeah not much about Brexit, more about our government what can't admit they have fucked up over the course of years and refuse to accept they are wrong, they are doing the same around not speaking with the EU and trying to destroy every EU law even when every single economic / human rights adviser as warned against , they believe if they make a u-turn they will be destroyed what is likely true, they are just trying to cling to power as long as they can at this point.", ">\n\n\nthese laws will prevent strikers causing disruption for normal people\"\n\nSmooth brain move: make it illegal to endanger the patients, and thus any strike would endanger them. If you strike, your license is revoked. Worry because numbers studying the field immediately crater.", ">\n\nRoughly how it is in Canada. Nurses can't strike so their union has to get creative with how it negotiates.", ">\n\nAnd now Canada has such a huge shortage of medical workers that my friends in Canada are on years-long waiting lists to be treated for debilitating conditions. Shocking!", ">\n\nYeah there's a lot to be fixed. \nThe shift in the labour market is creating a lot of problems and governments don't want to pay more to keep the staff they have. That coupled with the boomers moving to retirement and beyond will provide for a stressful next decade.", ">\n\nThis is nice and all, but what are the chances of this actually doing something? The Tories hold all the cards, their entire strategy is causing disasters for political points and they're going to be out in a few years, so they haven't much reason to try to placate the voters. I'm finding it hard to be positive about this strike.", ">\n\nI've been out on NHS picket lines, the amount of public support for workers is insane, I've never seen anything like it, even police are beeping as they go past. Even the relatively wealthy retired people I spend quite a lot of time working for have had enough. They are the ones who need most of the care and can't get it.\nHaving said that the only way I can see this ending is in something close to a general strike to force an election.", ">\n\nThe end will only come when economic conditions improve rather than with an election - inflation has historically driven strikes even under Labour (the strikes of the late 1970s being the most famous example). That party might have more constructive talks with the unions but talk only goes so far.\nUnfortunately a lot of the inflation is driven by things that have already been done. Low interest rates inflated the housing market until it could no longer absorb new money, Brexit has increased the price of trade, the Russian invasion of Ukraine has been destructive to European and global supply chains, and most fundamentally the UK working age population is no longer growing while the retired population is. So there's a lot of things holding up demand and not much supporting supply.", ">\n\nThe country will only improve when the people running it have a plan and desire to make things better, the current government is in a zombie parasite mode, it's only plan is to suck as much wealth out as possible before it dies.\nEvery day without a new government that actually governs is extending the time it will take to recover.", ">\n\nI would broadly agree, though the first couple of years post-election will probably see the most unpopular/painful decisions needed for the recovery to be made.\nPolitically, they will have a choice of focusing on their core vote or maintaining the margins - the Conservatives have tried the former but Labour seems to be set on the latter, and so far this is working electorally.", ">\n\nIt's not going to be easy but once there are people in charge that actually want to do the job they can start getting to grips with the huge inefficiencies that have creapt in over years of a void in management and planning that has lead to staff firefighting day to day across the public services. \nWe need ministers and departments that want to run services for the public rather than ones who believe that public services are some kind of cancer.", ">\n\nHaving someone who gives a shit definitely helps a department. The strain they're all going to face is the number of pensioners increases by something like 2.5 million while the number of workers stays approximately flat - that will balloon the Pension budget and pile pressure on Health and Social Care even under ideal conditions.", ">\n\nHard to have a lot of leverage in a shrinking economy. GDP has just barely returned to levels originally seen in 2005/2006.", ">\n\nUnemployment in the UK is under 4% and many of these jobs require significant education. They absolutely have leverage.", ">\n\nI doubt they expected COVID-19 to happen right after Brexit. They had this \"plan\" that probably wouldn't have only partially worked but then the entire world stood still and then once things got moving again, the world faced extreme supply chain issues.\nOut of world wars and global depressions, they literally couldn't have picked a worse time in modern history. I'm sure EU doesn't mind it either.. suddenly people wanting to leave arent wanting to anymore.\nI suspect UK will request membership again, EU will toy with them a bit and then ultimately they'll be back in. It's like France with NATO, they left, thought \"um, why did we do this again?\" and then re-entered.\nThis is why you should always think with one brain and not the other because the re-entering part becomes akward AF. \"I thought you didn't want me and now you do? wtf James\"\nEdit: France never fully left NATO, only a partial pullout, my bad.", ">\n\n\nI suspect UK will request membership again\n\nIt'll never happen.\nUk barely wanted to be in the EU with all the opt outs, special clauses etc. Theres no chance they are accepting full freedom of movement, the euro etc", ">\n\nFrance: \"Zes are rookie numbers. You have to, how do you say, pump zose numbers up\"", ">\n\nSame people voted for brexit, twice, and fucked their own economy...", ">\n\nLol and yet they were still keen to exit the EU, well, you get what you ask for I guess" ]